But Stokes will never get a shot at this team because of Jacobs, so his value won't get much higher than it is....unless he completely sky rockets in the minors next year.

 

 

Stokes really didn't have a bad year last year, he just wasn't healthy.

 

I could (note I didn't say would) see him winning a bench job with a good spring. He's still got light-tower power.

 

And, all other things equal, I'd probably rather have him as the regular first-baseman than Jacobs. Of course, all other things are not equal and only one of those players can stay healthy.

tampa the rays want major league ready talent and it looks as if our prospects that are being named in the deal are major league ready...also olsen is more than ready and if petit is looked at more a future prospect ur team is still getting off well...just not as good as when it was just olsen for gathright

I honestly don't think Stokes will be a major leaguer. He lacks the defense or contact hitting to be an effective righthanded platoon player. But until he proves himself he's healthy, he's worthless.

 

Petit dominates everywhere he goes. I'd like to see the club give him a chance to prove his doubters wrong. If past statistical analysis is correct, Petit stands a good chance.

if we are gonna go after gomes why not just go all the way and go after delmon young?

if we are gonna go after gomes why not just go all the way and go after delmon young?

 

:lol

 

why stop there?

 

omgupton1!11

if we are gonna go after gomes why not just go all the way and go after delmon young?

 

:lol

 

why stop there?

 

omgupton1!11

 

 

hey this offseason we need to make jokes and humors else I will look to my closet and the 7 jersey in there of guys not here anymore. :lol

Young? Upton?

 

 

 

Ummmm......We could so get Drew.

 

i found this interesting in rosenthal's column

 

The Tigers tried to acquire Devil Rays closer Danys Baez before signing free-agent closer Todd Jones to a two-year, $11 million contract. The Rays asked for two top prospects ? right-hander Joel Zumaya and center fielder Curtis Granderson ? and a third minor leaguer. The Tigers would have been more comfortable trading players like center fielder Nook Logan and Double-A right-hander Humberto Sanchez. ...

 

 

this means that for gomes and gathright we have to give up half our farm system to make them happy

i found this interesting in rosenthal's column

 

The Tigers tried to acquire Devil Rays closer Danys Baez before signing free-agent closer Todd Jones to a two-year, $11 million contract. The Rays asked for two top prospects ? right-hander Joel Zumaya and center fielder Curtis Granderson ? and a third minor leaguer. The Tigers would have been more comfortable trading players like center fielder Nook Logan and Double-A right-hander Humberto Sanchez. ...

 

 

this means that for gomes and gathright we have to give up half our farm system to make them happy

 

One can only trade with the Mets so often.....

yeah i think they just ask for the top 2 prospects from each team regardless of who they want

By the way, let me add a disclaimer that there are no substantiated rumors involving the addition of Petit to the Olsen/Gathright deal. Please not that this is purely speculation on my part, and I don't even know if he's been mentioned in negotiations.

 

 

This is how I see it:

 

With Gathright, we get a speedy outfielder that we can stick in center, to track down those long fly balls in the triangle. People love to compare players overall, but each team has a different need. His OBP numbers in the bigs aren't impressive, but his sample size isn't overwhelming. His BA above .276 (?) is indicative of his ability to sustain a major league level of play. OBP is about patience, because walks are factored into this statistic. A young player (25) can always learn to be patient (although there are no promises!); conversely, a young player with patience is less likely to learn how to hit better. That's why I think Gathright can be a great addition to the ballclub. We need a center fielder now, so that our young team can mesh and hopefully be playoff competitive by 2008 (that's my target, at least). If we wait for these young pitchers to mature and increase their value, it won't do anything for us but stall the progress of the team as a whole, beause we'll be missing positional pieces.

 

With Gomes, you obviously have a young stud in the making. At 25, he's still developing, and he's already proven himself in the bigs (I believe about 110 games) with a 'career' .268 AVG, .861 OPS (over .900 last year I believe). He has pop in his bat, and while his defense is iffy, he's young enough to be able to improve. If we can land a guy like him, that'd be incredible. Imagine this lineup if you will:

 

 

1) Gathright

2) Gomes

3) Hermida

4) Cabrera

5) Jacobs

6) Willingham

7) Ramirez

8) Uggla/Amezaga/Ramp/something that moves

 

Tell me that doesn't look pretty?

 

While the Gomes/Gathright deal is purely rumor as of now, I think it makes sense for both ballclubs. Regardless of what our resident Tampa fan thinks, Olsen is a great pitching prospect who will be successful in his career. Petit has potential to do well, but scouts just don't see that 'greatness' in him. I'm no scout, so I'll believe them. There's a reason why, even though his numbers are impressive, he's been labeled a potential 3 in the rotation--he just doesn't have that intangible 'it'. That, and his groundball percentage is horrible, which leads to him giving up HRs more often.

 

Gomes/Gathright for Olsen/Petit?

 

I'd do it. We need positional players, and we need them now so that we can start developing our team immediately. I'd hate to insert a new youngster 2 or 3 years down the road. I'd like all our youngns to develop this year--it's imperative, I believe. We have a plethora of pitching prospects. Many of you say, "Lefty, we have to let them develop to raise their value!" Well, like I said--if we wait for their value to increase, it'll be in 2 years or so, which isn't the timeframe I'd like to wait to get a good outfielder!

 

Tampa wants pitching prospects. Imagine them having Kazmir/Olsen as their future 1/2...If I was them, I'd be drooling over this proposition. As for Petit, I'm just not a believer in his ability to be an ace. I think he'll be a quality starter (a 12-13 win type), but not as good as some of our guys (Sanchez, Willis, Volstad, Nolasco in particular).

 

As I stated earlier, even without Olsen and Petit, our rotation would look something like this (in 2007):

 

Willis, Vargas, Sanchez, Johnson, Mitre/_____

 

And in 2008, if development follows its current course, all things constant (which we all know is subject to change, of course!):

 

Willis, Sanchez, Vargas, Nolasco, Volstad

 

I won't even go past that, but use your imagination (Hernandez, West, Pinto, etc)

 

 

 

I want my outfielders, and I want them now!

Olsen and Petit for for Gomes and Gathright

 

Stop this love affair with Petit. We have a bunch of other guys just like him with as much talent: Johnson, Nolasco, Vargas, Pinto (if his control improves), West, Hernandez, etc....

 

And then we have guys better than him: Sanchez, Olsen, Willis, Volstad, etc...

 

I'm merely saying what would improve the deal should something like that be true.

 

Wrong. Petit has better stats then all of them. Lower whip, lower era, higher K/9. Petit is the best prospect they have besides Hermida. Johnson is nowhere in the same ballpark, neiter is Nolasco, Pinto, and West (to early). Vargas and Gaby are two of the best 5 they have. They would be similar, but not with Petit's upside. As for the rest, Sanchez would rank behind Petit and ahead of Vargas and Gaby, Olsen is not better then Petit, Anibal, Vargas, Dontrelle, and Gaby, and Volstad is to early to tell. All of this is wrong. The love affair everyone has with Olsen, should be with Petit. He is the best pitcher in the organization besides Dontrelle.

Wrong. Petit has better stats then all of them. Lower whip, lower era, higher K/9. Petit is the best prospect they have besides Hermida. Johnson is nowhere in the same ballpark, neiter is Nolasco, Pinto, and West (to early). Vargas and Gaby are two of the best 5 they have. They would be similar, but not with Petit's upside. As for the rest, Sanchez would rank behind Petit and ahead of Vargas and Gaby, Olsen is not better then Petit, Anibal, Vargas, Dontrelle, and Gaby, and Volstad is to early to tell. All of this is wrong. The love affair everyone has with Olsen, should be with Petit. He is the best pitcher in the organization besides Dontrelle.

 

 

 

I seriously hate it when people don't read the entire post. You need to go back and review my writing. I said that even though Petit has great stats (yes I said that, wow!), scouts aren't incredibly impressed by him. The stats he is getting should signify his ability to be an ace, but scouts don't believe he can be--erego, he's not as good as you want him to be.

 

And Sanchez will be better than Petit. He has better all around talent. Petit lacks poise, gives up the long ball and has a horrible groundball percentage. If he can develop further, then I think he'll be great--but I think scouts don't expect him to make the big 'jump' anytime soon, if ever. If I had to rank the Fish pitchers based on how their careers will pan out:

 

Olsen

Sanchez

Volstad

maybe even Nolasco or West

 

 

You can't possibly argue this as it is my opinion. I hate hate hate when people try to act as if they can read a crystal ball.

 

If Petit has an amazing first half in the minors, or if he starts the year on the big league club in the rotation, I'll be happy--because I'm a Fish fan. I just don't think he'll be anything special. He'll be a perennial 12-13 game winner.

I would rather give up Josh Johnson than either Olsen or Petit. Johnson is the one who is most major league-ready, but I think he has the smaller ceiling.

Man.. I hope Beinfest and Co. don't just go by minor league stats alone to compare and evaluate talent like some people around here do.

 

Why is Olsen ranked ahead of Petit by most prospect sites if his stats are so superior? Why is Petit consistantly seen by most scouts as a middle of the rotation pitcher with these stats? You talk about Petit and his upside.. If Petit has all this "upside" to go along with these AMAZING stats, why is not consistantly ranked towards the top of baseball prospects lists, let alone ahead of Olsen? It seems to me that Olsen is the one with the better upside if he is consistantly ranked ahead of a pitcher with better minor league statistics.

But Stokes will never get a shot at this team because of Jacobs, so his value won't get much higher than it is....unless he completely sky rockets in the minors next year.

 

 

 

Stokes has every bit as much of a chance of being the opening day 1B.

 

I'm considering (depending LL schedule) moving up to Jupiter for a month next spring, it's going to be the most exciting place on earth if you're a baseball fan as these kids stage a battle royale for playing time. If Girardi really does allow the best man to win, it's going to be a once in a lifetime event.

You have to kidding if you think that Jacob was the main player we received in the Delgado deal. It was Petit and there's no doubt about that. Forget the rankings, and forget all of that "his stuff doesn't match his numbers" stuff! Petit has been a winner everywhere he has gone. He will probably be in the rotation this season. Hey, Willis wasn't a big time prospect either, and pretty much the same was said about him. Good numbers but not the greatest stuff. Look at his results in the majors. You can't argue with that. I remember when Vargas came up last season and Tommy Hutton said it was refreshing to see a kid come up to the bigs because he knows how to pitch and not because of his stuff. I agree with that. A.J has great stuff too, but he didn't win crap here. If anything, A. J and his stuff killed us down the stretch last year. That said, I understand that we need to add some offense. I think we should only include Olsen or Petit if Gomes is in the equation, and even then I don't throw two top notch prospects. Either Olsen or Petit, and then some lesser prospect like Gaby or Marceaux. I'm sure Beinfest will make the right deal.

Man.. I hope Beinfest and Co. don't just go by minor league stats alone to compare and evaluate talent like some people around here do.

 

Why is Olsen ranked ahead of Petit by most prospect sites if his stats are so superior? Why is Petit consistantly seen by most scouts as a middle of the rotation pitcher with these stats? You talk about Petit and his upside.. If Petit has all this "upside" to go along with these AMAZING stats, why is not consistantly ranked towards the top of baseball prospects lists, let alone ahead of Olsen? It seems to me that Olsen is the one with the better upside if he is consistantly ranked ahead of a pitcher with better minor league statistics.

 

 

Exactly! I've stated several times that while his stats are great, there is a reason scouts aren't 'that' high on him. Since I've never seen him pitch, I only have the professional opinion of scouts to go by.

Man.. I hope Beinfest and Co. don't just go by minor league stats alone to compare and evaluate talent like some people around here do.

 

Why is Olsen ranked ahead of Petit by most prospect sites if his stats are so superior? Why is Petit consistantly seen by most scouts as a middle of the rotation pitcher with these stats? You talk about Petit and his upside.. If Petit has all this "upside" to go along with these AMAZING stats, why is not consistantly ranked towards the top of baseball prospects lists, let alone ahead of Olsen? It seems to me that Olsen is the one with the better upside if he is consistantly ranked ahead of a pitcher with better minor league statistics.

 

 

Well, the short answer to that is most scouts simply overuse the radar gun when making a conclusion.

 

That said, yes Olsen is the superior pitching prospect and Petit is probably the riskiest player in the organization to hold onto for another year.

OK, I see everyone is very high on Gomes right now. He's a good young player, but the guy struck out 113 times in 348 at bats. That's a horrible K/AB ratio... I'm not saying I wouldn't want him on the team. I think he'd be a great addition, along with Gathright. But that's a stat I don't think we can overlook either.

it'll be a nice upgrade from what we currently have, Beinfest is smart enough and knows we need that speedy centerfielder in Dolphins Stadium.

OK, I see everyone is very high on Gomes right now. He's a good young player, but the guy struck out 113 times in 348 at bats. That's a horrible K/AB ratio... I'm not saying I wouldn't want him on the team. I think he'd be a great addition, along with Gathright. But that's a stat I don't think we can overlook either.

 

 

You know, I've thought about that too, but even with that alarmingly high K-rate, he still hit .280 and had a .370 OBP.

 

As a player ages, the K's come down. So if you have a guy at 24 put up good numbers and still overcome the dreaded strikeout problem, no complaints. Besides, in the long-term discussion of the team, he figures to be no better than the 5-hole hitter (Hanley-2, Hermida-3, Cabrera-4)

A ton of K's in their first taste of majors for a power hitter has to be pretty common.. Cabs k/AB was pretty high his first year and has gone down since. Still has a great OBP and OPS and you have to think his K total will go down as he gets more experience.

Man.. I hope Beinfest and Co. don't just go by minor league stats alone to compare and evaluate talent like some people around here do.

 

Why is Olsen ranked ahead of Petit by most prospect sites if his stats are so superior? Why is Petit consistantly seen by most scouts as a middle of the rotation pitcher with these stats? You talk about Petit and his upside.. If Petit has all this "upside" to go along with these AMAZING stats, why is not consistantly ranked towards the top of baseball prospects lists, let alone ahead of Olsen? It seems to me that Olsen is the one with the better upside if he is consistantly ranked ahead of a pitcher with better minor league statistics.

 

Other teams know this as well. We're not going to get fair value for him. You might as wel keep him and see if - as has happened countless times before - the young pitcher who dominates every level he plays in can become a good major leaguer.

I just read where Corey Patterson might not get offered arbitration by the Cubs. If he is not to expensive to sign, why not give him a shot? A change of scenery just might be what he needs, plus he is a good defender. At least this way we don't have to give up a young pitcher, and he has a ton more potential than Gathright. Still doesn't solve the lead off hitter we need but I think we can afford to take a chance on him. Any thoughts?