Mucho frustration-We know they are young and mistake prone, but honestly, when the game starts I look at it as a baseball game-not as a game with a young team vs. experience. So, the mistakes create frustration. Yet, I think I was just as frustrated the past two years because it seems that this year we already have more two out hits than Lowell and Pierre got all last year. I see a lot of promise here.

 

One little thing about yesterdays game that I pick on is the throw by Olivo in the 7th allowing runners to move up. This took away the inning ending double play. While it was only one run, I am more frustrated by that run than the 3 in the 8th. In that situation, give your pitcher a chance to get out of trouble, not put him into more trouble with a statistically poor choice.

 

Wouldn't it be awesome if Kool-Aid keeps this up. This is the fun of it, never knowing what these kids will bring to the table. Just keep on improving and stop getting picked off base before the pitcher even throws the ball.

I'm not frustrated at all, actually. It's more frustrating to watch the most talented team in the league underachieve two years straight...

 

I'm really looking forward to watching this team progress and seeing what these guys are made of, what they'll become. it's going to be nice...

You don't learn the so-called fundamentals in AA, AAA and MLB. You refine your abilities at those leagues. You take what you've known and apply it against greater competition. The reason these players have made the mistakes they have is not because they were rushed to the big leagues this season.

You don't learn the so-called fundamentals in AA, AAA and MLB. You refine your abilities at those leagues. You take what you've known and apply it against greater competition. The reason these players have made the mistakes they have is not because they were rushed to the big leagues this season.

 

 

Good post...I tend to agree with you.

 

So where do you learn the so-called fundamentals?

Depends on your coaching and your willingness to learn. Some never learn. Others may be incapable.

 

At the high professional level, everyone assumes your ability as a ballplayer is that you know of the fundamentals and proper technique or tha you hold such incredible talent, you can succeed without them. Players get checked and analyzed by many scouts, coaches, instructors and others. It's wrong to assume that they are missing something or just willing to overlook something because they don't have 'major league bodies'. These players are on the major league roster because Beinfest and a hundred others believe they can succeed at this level and this experience will be helpful to their careers. Trust me, if they wanted to, they could have these players in the minors not using up their MLB service time and throw out a bunch of AAA journeymen on the cheap, but they don't believe these players need it.

So where do you learn the so-called fundamentals?

 

 

Little League.

 

This idea that honing one's ability supercedes learning how to play fundamental baseball in the developmental stages of their careers is pure horse manure. It's as much of a sin getting caught off base on your high school team as it in the bigs. Knowing where your runners are is drilled into eleven year old kids practice after practice at the Little League level. This idea that guys who have been playing this game professionally since their teens or in college don't know the fundamentals of baseball is ridiculous.

 

What's wrong here is they are not executing.

 

Ramirez should know by now that you play the ball with men on base not the bag. Olivo probably shouldn't have thrown it in the first place but his throw wasn't a terribly bad one, he didn't airmail into the outfield for god's sake. Uggla should have enough presence of mind to know it's time to eat the ball. Alot of these mistakes are happening because they aren't thinking and their adrenaline is thru the roof.

 

It may get worse before it gets better but it will get better.

I don't know if this need another thread, but why not?

 

How many of you honestly believed that watching this team this year was going to be plesent? That routine ground ball outs were going to be played, well, routinely? That double plays would be turned with the ease you expect from a major league club? Or that if you get a 4+ run lead on a team victory is secured? If you REALLY thought these things then well, go get your head examined.

 

Going into this season you had to expect that it was going to be a tough year. One rookie on a team has a hard enough learning curve and is expected to bring the overall play down a small notch. Now multiply that notch by 8 and you have the 2006 Marlins. Routine groundballs are now a test. Double plays are no longer easy and, when turned successfully, are regarded as little miracles. Leads mean nothing.

 

I'm not saying this team is bad. They have some amazing talent on that field. However, this talent will need time to flourish. For those of you who get frustrated at a loss, don't. You had to expect that these "Baby Marlins" are going to lose the close games, are going to commit costly errors, and are going to give up those big leads. It's all in the name of learning. There are obvious flaws on this team that come from such a low payroll, the bullpen being one of them, but at the same time there are highlights on this team that go unnoticed to the casual fan. Expect these fish to play poorly because for the majority of the season they will. But also expect them to gell and individually play better. Once this happens you will have something to get frustrated about when they lose that close game.

 

 

I am not frustrated at all. I knew they would lose. If anything I am proud of them for not really getting blown out. The offence has impressed me, I did not know they could do what they have been doing. Only the pitching and Moehler have been frustrating me. I assumed Moehler might do a lot better this year like he did last year in the begining.

saying players do not learn how to make better use of basic fundamentals in the minors is just a bunch of garbage. sure, they know the fundamentals, you learn them at a young age, but they learn how to apply fundamentals on an every day basis down in the farm. giving 110% every game, keeping your focus on every play, learning to judge your instincts instead of overthinking, etc. etc. are all things kids must learn to go along with those fundamentals before they get to the pros. these guys clearly have not - . their emotions are getting the better of them and they make stupid mistakes. uggla knows to hold the ball on that play...every baseball player does....but he didnt...why?

 

EVERYONE is capable of fundamentals...that's why they're called FUNDAMENTALS. learning to apply them every single day on every single pitch is a whole other matter, though.

 

they don't belong here...maybe for physical reasons (eric reed) or mental reasons (almost every other guy on this team with the exception of a few)...but, under normal circumstances, these players would not be playing major league baseball yet, and there's a damn good reason for it (and it sure as hell isn't lack of talent because you can clearly see they have that). you gain experience in the minors...the only way to learn is to make mistakes and these are mistakes young guys usually make at AA ball and learn from them, but they have been rushed to the pros and are making them in front of national coverage which magnifies the situation.

 

bottom line: the players are making mistakes because they're in over their heads, period. they don't belong here right now....yet here they are.

Not in the opinion of Beinfest and countless others who had part in the decision to promote them to the major leagues.

 

People make mistakes. That's what we do. But don't give me this excuse that this is something that's out of their control. This is simply another challenge of adapting their play to ever-increasing competition. They learned this long ago. For some they didn't bother to. Now, as it has for many years, it's about refining it and finding a place for it in their game at this new level. Those that fail have not been necessarily rushed. Those that fail have shown that they can't adapt their game [at a sufficient pace]. You can't be a successful ballplayer without that skill. You'll be out of the league by the time they get the book on you if you can't adapt your game, whether that be your first year, battling an injury (see Gonzalez in 2006) or a new approach years into your career (see Pierre's baserunning in 2004).

If you hit a wall, you better be able to pick yourself up and find your way around it. That's how you succeed in life.

Not in the opinion of Beinfest and countless others who had part in the decision to promote them to the major leagues.

 

have you even been around the last year? they werent promoted - they were forced. who else is going to play CF since we had to dump Pierre and have a payroll of about $15 mil? Who's going to play 2B? Give me a break.

 

People make mistakes. That's what we do. But don't give me this excuse that this is something that's out of their control.

 

could you contradict yourself any more?

 

This is simply another challenge of adapting their play to ever-increasing competition. They learned this long ago. For some they didn't bother to.

 

it's not that they didn't bother to - they never had the chance to. big difference, one you can't seem to understand.

 

 

Now' date=' as it has for many years, it's about refining it and finding a place for it in their game at this new level. Those that fail have not been necessarily rushed. Those that fail have shown that they can't adapt their game [at a sufficient pace']. You can't be a successful ballplayer without that skill. You'll be out of the league by the time they get the book on you if you can't adapt your game, whether that be your first year, battling an injury (see Gonzalez in 2006) or a new approach years into your career (see Pierre's baserunning in 2004).

If you hit a wall, you better be able to pick yourself up and find your way around it. That's how you succeed in life.

 

i agree with most of that - but point is, they're being asked to jump into this level when they arent ready. arent mentally ready, arent physically ready, arent emotionally ready. they just are not ready. there is a reason why young kids take years to go through an organizations' minor league system and you're seeing it now, plain and simple.

I think they're ready. They just have to adjust to this level of competition. They used to be able to get away with these sorts of mistakes because they were much more talented than their opponents, but now they have to learn that they need to cut down even more on the fundamental mistakes and make sure to concentrate each game, during each inning, each at bat, each pitch. There is a learning curve when they arrive at a higher level and they're going through that right now. It will take maybe another month before they're in good shape. But then I expect them to take off and play pretty good baseball. You can clearly see that they have the talent to play at this level - they haven't looked overmatched at all (they've gotten blown out a few times and they've blown the other team out a few times, which happens).

If Beinfest wanted, he could have bought in a team of AAA journeymen and replacement level players and left these young players in the minors if he wanted, but he thought the players he assigned (better?) to the majors were ready and would have a valuable experience, even while accruing MLB service time that would make them free agents sooner.

Take your martyr complex and foist it on someone else. Willis didn't pitch a great game only to lose it to a bullpen representative of a team that recently had a firesale. Cabrera isn't seeing so few good pitches to have an impact. And the others do not need your excuses for their mistakes. They are professional ballplayers with something to prove. They've been playing this game and learning its fundamentals since they were in t-ball leagues. They're working hard everyday to improve their games and adjust.

 

Some of these players may need more time to develop (which might be possible at the MLB level), some haven't developed the power necessary to hit balls past better skilled defenders, some can't spot a pitch or throw one with control, but I assure it's not their fundamentals that need to be re-taught. If you're 22-25 and you don't know your fundamentals, you must have incredible talent where you've been given the benefit of doubt or you're out of the league.

If Beinfest wanted, he could have bought in a team of AAA journeymen and replacement level players and left these young players in the minors if he wanted, but he thought the players he assigned (better?) to the majors were ready and would have a valuable experience, even while accruing MLB service time that would make them free agents sooner.

 

and i agree with him - as they will learn faster at the major league level than they would at AA ball - but it doesn't change the fact that some/most are not major leaguers yet - mostly mentally speaking.

 

as the year goes on - that should change. but right now, it's pretty clear.

 

 

 

Take your martyr complex and foist it on someone else. Willis didn't pitch a great game only to lose it to a bullpen representative of a team that recently had a firesale. Cabrera isn't seeing so few good pitches to have an impact. And the others do not need your excuses for their mistakes. They are professional ballplayers with something to prove. They've been playing this game and learning its fundamentals since they were in t-ball leagues. They're working hard everyday to improve their games and adjust.

 

Some of these players may need more time to develop (which might be possible at the MLB level), some haven't developed the power necessary to hit balls past better skilled defenders, some can't spot a pitch or throw one with control, but I assure it's not their fundamentals that need to be re-taught. If you're 22-25 and you don't know your fundamentals, you must have incredible talent where you've been given the benefit of doubt or you're out of the league.

 

 

might want to re-read what i said and then take another stab at it - i thought it was pretty clear - but i guess i was wrong. :whistle

I understand that you're excusing the player's mistakes for their lack of experience. I don't find that to be true at all. I don't see what one has to do with the other and what one more year in the minors would have done for their ability to play correctly.

I understand that you're excusing the player's mistakes for their lack of experience. I don't find that to be true at all. I don't see what one has to do with the other and what one more year in the minors would have done for their ability to play correctly.

 

 

 

they would be making all of these "stupid mistakes" in the minors, learning from them, and not doing them next time around (in the majors). lack of experience has everything to do with this - it's painfully obvious - which for some reason escapes you. this whole team is inexperienced aside from cabrera - which is why you see so many mistakes out there - i don't expect them to stop any time soon, either. the only way to learn is through experience - no matter how many times girardi tells them not to do something, the only way it will become second nature is to learn by experiencing it.

I understand that you're excusing the player's mistakes for their lack of experience. I don't find that to be true at all. I don't see what one has to do with the other and what one more year in the minors would have done for their ability to play correctly.

 

 

 

they would be making all of these "stupid mistakes" in the minors, learning from them, and not doing them next time around (in the majors). lack of experience has everything to do with this - it's painfully obvious - which for some reason escapes you. this whole team is inexperienced aside from cabrera - which is why you see so many mistakes out there - i don't expect them to stop any time soon, either. the only way to learn is through experience - no matter how many times girardi tells them not to do something, the only way it will become second nature is to learn by experiencing it.

I don't want to speak for Rferry, he's more than capable of speaking for himself, but perhaps what he means is that they are making rookie mistakes.....and if they played another year in the minors(this year), they'd still be rookies next year, and just as prone to making these types of mistakes next year as they are this year. A rookie is a rookie. They make mistakes based on overanxiousness or too much adrenaline. Not from lack of experience.

Partly Pierre has it right. It's not simply that they're rookies and unsure of themselves. Sure, rookies are tested more often by opposing teams, but that's not because they're young, it's because they don't know their skills and assume they aren't very good. It's that even AAA to the majors is a big jump to make. Really it's an entirely new level of the game. No amount of time in AA or AAA is going to help change that.

 

I don't see how having these players make mistakes at AA and AAA, rather than the majors, helps. Maybe it makes your and my experience a bit better not to watch the crap they pull, but for the players to learn this at this level is a valuable experience. It will help them grow as ballplayers. That's what is important. If it wasn't we'd be seeing AAA journeymen in their place.