Wow Im so glad I didnt get to see this game. Sounds like it was painfull...On the bright side it looks like Yusmeiro pitched good. 3 innings 2 hit 3 k's. What happened with Nolasco only going 3 innings? Some of these kids in the minors seriously need to be called up and given a shot. It couldnt hurt. Any word on Carlos Martinez and when he's comming back?

 

 

He had throwin 79 pitches when he got taken out. He was on a pitch count. He gave up no earned runs, but walked 3 dudes.

resop 8.1 era

tankersley never pitched in the majors

martinez 2.7 era injured

bowyer 5.59 era injured

tyler never pitched in the majors walking way to many batters in AA

sanchez never pitched in the majors starter

bostick never pitched in the majors

volstad never pitched in the majors starter

kensing 9.64 era

minors

kensing 12-14 3.55 era 220.1 ip 221 hits allowed 102 runs allowed 87 earned runs allowed 12 home runs allowed 60 walks 164 strike outs got to majors in 2nd pro season

messenger 30-26 4.53 era 493.0 ip 544 hits allowed 298 runs allowed 248 earned runs allowed 27 home runs allowed 201 walks 346 strike outs got to majors in 7th pro season

 

 

Thats also misleading if you understand how the minors work. Most of Messengers IP were in AAA Albuquerque.

 

AAA is a serious hitters league. Kensing put up his best stats vs. single A'ers. Messenger is a power pitcher and he translates better in the pros.....the reason why Mess is a higher prospect.......

 

SEE ABOVE FOR PRO STATS

 

CAREER STATS...sometimes there is more than meets the eye.....sometimes 1 stat can paint the future for everyone.

 

T.Wellemeyer 102 IP, 98 Hits

S.Olsen 50 IP, 48 H

J.Borowski 316.2 IP, 300 H

F.German 137 IP, 137 H

J.Johnson 40 IP, 30 H

C.Martinez 6.2 IP, 4 H

R.Nolasco 17.1 IP, 18 H

Y.Petit 4 IP, 3 H

R.Messenger 51.2 IP, 55 H

D.Willis 649.1 IP, 634 H

 

 

Not Part of the Future

B.Moehler 1059 IP, 1237 H

S.Mitre 155.2 IP, 187 H

Matt Herges 492 IP, 519 H

L.Kensing 23.1 IP, 35 H

 

 

 

I hope Im wrong about Kensing but he isn't as good as some of the other pitchers just waiting for a chance in the minors.

48.2 innings pitched in AAA. really thats the majority when he pitched 493 innings in the minors before this year

kensing only made 7 appearences all of them starts in AA. he went 4-1 with a 3.18 era and 1.24 whip. he was his worst in jamestown and greensboro.

kensing doesnt have the upside of some of the guys in the minors but if you bring up those pitchers now your going to turn them into another kensing

48.2 innings pitched in AAA. really thats the majority when he pitched 493 innings in the minors before this year

kensing only made 7 appearences all of them starts in AA. he went 4-1 with a 3.18 era and 1.24 whip. he was his worst in jamestown and greensboro.

kensing doesnt have the upside of some of the guys in the minors but if you bring up those pitchers now your going to turn them into another kensing

 

 

All Im saying is this....

 

Is Kensing better than Resop, Volstad, Anibal, Bostick, Tyler, Bowyer, Mildren, West? No.

 

Is he part of our future plans? No.

 

He's keeping the seat warm for the best farm system top to bottom (at least pitching wise) in all of the majors.

well he has more of a future with the club than messenger, wellemeyer and borowski. look at messenger's game log ever since he gave up his first run this year hes been struggling

well he has more of a future with the club than messenger, wellemeyer and borowski. look at messenger's game log ever since he gave up his first run this year hes been struggling

 

 

I'd keep Borowski, Wellemeyer, and Messenger longer than Kensing.

 

Maybe it's just me.....but I think all 3 of these guys wil have longer careers as of today than Logan.

 

Borowski.... a career 3.95 ERA (316 IP, 300 H) ONLY 33 career HR. Hitters batting .250 off Borowski.

 

Kensing.....a career 9.64 ERA (25 IP, 36 H) 7 HR in Already. Hitters batting .365 off of Kensing.

 

I'll take Borowski anyday.

well wellemeyer cant go an inning without walking a batter. he has control problems and hes not about to solve them. borowski is an average at best middle relief pitcher. messenger only edge over kensing is he was brought up before he was ready so he hasnt had any psychological damage

I put Logan Kensing in the 9th inning.

 

THE END.

 

Girardi know everyone from bullpen will be a lose pitcher,so he just random choice with blind :whistle

Until how many blown games do we look at the pitching coach? Starters hasn't been very good either.

 

I can live with 1 or 2 guys always pitching bad but if everyone is doing bad the pitching coach has something to do with it.

Who would you have pitch the 9th?

 

 

Well I know i will be bashed for this....but anyone ever who has had ANY success in the majors.

 

Kensing has been lit up EVERY time he has ever pitched. :mischief2

 

Kensing wasn't 'lit up' tonight. He screwed up on holding the runner and Andino couldn't make the throw when Kensing managed to get a potential DP ball. This was a game that I can't lay on Girardi, the only call I really disagreed with (Jacobs vs. LHP) worked.

There is no one else to put in there.

 

All the other douches would have allowed the Braves to tie the game.

 

God doesn't like us.

 

*huddles in corner*

 

*cries*

 

 

He smiled on us in 2003, and now we pay the price (with Loria's help of course)

 

 

Until how many blown games do we look at the pitching coach? Starters hasn't been very good either.

 

I can live with 1 or 2 guys always pitching bad but if everyone is doing bad the pitching coach has something to do with it.

 

 

Kranitz -- what is his background ? Has he ever had responsibilty on this level before ? Or is he a rookie to the bigs too ?

Until how many blown games do we look at the pitching coach? Starters hasn't been very good either.

 

I can live with 1 or 2 guys always pitching bad but if everyone is doing bad the pitching coach has something to do with it.

 

 

I am starting to think that, but these guys should know how to pitch though. Oh and it could also be psychological. *seriously*. If we think something is going to happen it will happen. They are probably on the mound waiting for something bad to happen.

I put Logan Kensing in the 9th inning.

 

THE END.

 

 

 

I wonder where are those people that chewed me out in the past for saying that the only productive use that the Marlins will ever get out of Logan Kensing was as a batting practice coach/pitcher. I noticed from his first couple outings at the MLB level that he would never have the goods. Where are those people that said he was a stud that wasn't ready? What's the excuse now?

 

I'll go as far as to say this now about Kensing...I think that he has never had the goods and may be one of those guys that got this far and was overly hyped up because of some political connection in the game. Does anyone know if he has a relative that has pull in the baseball world?

 

Enough said, let's try someone else.

Until how many blown games do we look at the pitching coach? Starters hasn't been very good either.

 

I can live with 1 or 2 guys always pitching bad but if everyone is doing bad the pitching coach has something to do with it.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with that.

Who would you have pitch the 9th?

 

 

Well I know i will be bashed for this....but anyone ever who has had ANY success in the majors.

 

Kensing has been lit up EVERY time he has ever pitched. :mischief2

 

Giving up 1 run in 2 innings is being lit up? Either way, Kensing is still young. He had his confidence blown by McKeon. He has really good stuff, and should turn into a good guy out of the pen. And I, personally, have no problem with Logan with the game on the line. He will probably be a bullpen arm for a long time, you have to let him learn how to get it done.

 

 

Kensing a bullpen arm for a long time?? The guy has mediocre stuff at best, was never a prospect. I follow the minors very closely and the Marlins have MUCH more talent than Logan Kensing. He reminds me of Bump....a career AAAA player. Again, it is early in his career but based on talent alone or upside.....Kensing is the weakest we have out of ANYONE in our pen right now.

Please!

 

Herges has better upside?!?!

I'd take Kensing over Herges...

 

 

So would most hitters.

 

See, Herges would frustrate most of them because he would just put them on base with a BB, but Kensing is different. Hitters want to face him. If you could face him everyday, he can raise your batting AVG by 100+ points and you'd hit HRs at a rate that neither steroids or Coors Field could ever compare to. In short, most hitters want to hit the upperdeck moon shot rather than take a BB.

 

Can you imagine having 500 ABs against Kensing every season? A guy like Alex Gonzalez would win batting titles by 20 BA points and a guy like Juan Pierre would challenge for HR titles and have a few 40-40 seasons.

 

Wow...that would be amazing.

 

Oh, I forgot, he "pitches" for us. Sorry, I was thinking like an opposing hitter.

 

:blink:

You two are nuts. Kensing's done well as a reliever in his career. It's as a starter, post-Cubs fiasco, that he has struggled.

 

There was no one else you could reasonably put in his place last night so shut it already.

This is getting old. You Girardi haters need to give it a rest.

 

 

 

 

:thumbup

 

Think of something else to blame.

 

Start with poor attendance and work your way from there.

 

Girardi is doing the best with what he has.

 

 

I put Logan Kensing in the 9th inning.

 

THE END.

 

Girardi know everyone from bullpen will be a lose pitcher,so he just random choice with blind :whistle

 

 

:chair

I dont get the Kensing hate from WM2003...its useless to put up career stats when the Kensing's first few appearances where in a playoff race after a callup from A ball, a situation he...at that time...had no business pitching in. Plus, you underrate his stuff. He has a mid 90's fastball and a nice sinker and ok slider.

 

Wellemeyer is about 4 years older, to say he has more of a future with this team than Logan I strongly disagree with.

i wouldn't of minded seeing messenger..although he would of blown it too. how about andino..he's been clocked at 95 mph...

You two are nuts. Kensing's done well as a reliever in his career. It's as a starter, post-Cubs fiasco, that he has struggled.

 

There was no one else you could reasonably put in his place last night so shut it already.

 

 

At this point, it seems that if they pitch and wear a Marlins jersey, they're going to get hit very well. I think that everyone that critiques Kensing is for the same reason that I do. It's simple, if a pitcher gives up runs every time he pitches more than 1 inning, he's going to get the bashing. You Kensing fans shouldn't be upset at fans who are stating the obvious; you should be upset at him for screwing up practically every time since he's been in MLB.

 

Personally, I have to ask, why do alot of you defend this guy who has done absolutely nothing at the MLB level? He hasn't done anything yet to have supportive fans. I don't understand how people rip players that have 30 save or 20 win seasons on their resume, but will go out of their way to defend someone with nothing on the resume except failure and maybe a somewhat mediocre outing or 2 that only optimists view as something better.

 

This is a business like anything else. If a player has never shown success, he's going to get ripped.

He's still young, got thrown into a situation he never should of been in during his first call up, and he has good stuff.

 

Thats enough to get my support.

I put Logan Kensing in the 9th inning.

 

THE END.

 

 

 

Right cause Mariano Rivera was in the pen warmin it up.

Can we at least get a little golf clap goin for Nolasco?

 

I think the dude did pretty good in his debut in a starters role IN ATLANTA AGAINST JOHN FRICKEN SMOLTZ.

 

It was a short outing but we knew he was gonna be on a pitch count.

 

Way to go Ricky. I think your gonna be around for a while (hopefully in teal)

 

:Clap :Clap :Clap

Since this seems to be the venomous topic du jour, let me wade in hip boots at the ready.

 

The loss of Bowyer in my estimation was the falling domino that started this mess. After his phenomenal September with the Twins (and don't let his era fool you, one bad outing (his last of '05 season) sent his era from the low 1's to over five) the front office justifiably expected him to be pitching regularly in the seventh, eigth or ninth innings.

 

Then came the loss of Martinez who similarly seemed destined to be one of the go to guys on Girardi's staff in the latter part of games. The loss of these two players has put the Marlins behind the eight ball almost all season.

 

You wouldn't be seeing the procession of guys you see now - Wellemeyer, Kensing, Messenger, German, etc.- if those two guys were pitching today.

 

In my estimation Messenger should be sent down to Carolina (not Albuquerque) with the express plan of rebuilding his focus and delivery from the ground up. Everything from his body language to his stride to his straight as a string fastball needs to be addressed, or in the alternative, he should be released. The Marlins may not want to give up on him quite yet but (regardless of his last two disasterous outings) the handwriting is on the wall for Randy.

 

And let's not ignore what the imploding of Jason Vargas has meant to the Fish. Or Willis or Moehler but more so Vargas who seemed destined to give you six-seven quality innings every five days but instead often couldn't get out of third, and when relegated to the pen, was like watching someone pouring gasoline over themselves and lighting a match.

 

Does anyone really think think the pitching coach expressed a desire for him (over any of his other charges) to nibble around edges of the strike zone rather than aggressively going after hitters?

 

I know some here blame Kranitz and more Girardi but I keep going back to watching catchers being shaken off two, three times a pitch by rookie hurlers and then missing their targets by feet not inches. Neither the coach nor the manager is able to control the delivery or flight of the ball from the dugout.

 

Can an argument be made that these kids should be better prepared by their coaches? Yes, certainly. But also remember a great number of them are products of other organizations and some of these things have been tolerated for years and have become learned traits that are hard to break.

 

With all the pitching we received in the off-season (and this may appear blasphemous) I'm not adverse to the notion of trading a Ricky Nolasco for for a bonafide reliever. Like it or not he has more trade value than almost any other guy you'd consider parting with and bring sveral suitors to the table who need a young (cheap) starter they feel has a good upside.

 

Until the bullpen I fear the Fish are fried. And everyone knows it.