February 12, 200719 yr I think you are wildly over-exaggerating. Like Miguel is the first superstar to go to arbitration. No, just the first one that has the FO ready to wage a public relations war over such an insignificant amount of money. I heard on ESPN radio 790 that Cabs is asking to be traded. Has anyone else heard anything about this? That would be interesting-nothing, in my opinion, would make the FO happier than trading Cabs and being able to blame it on him. What I want is the stadium deal, thus saving our Marlins, then once that is done, get rid of this ownership group. Hey, I can dream. You can take their side regarding the economics of this team, but why is that related to being public morons (like Samson) and being an embarassment. They are mutually exclusive. You can be a tightwad, or even justifiably cheap without acting like a public clown. Integrity, class-it really is not that difficult.
February 12, 200719 yr Start churning up the rumor mills. What teams need third baseman? I really think Cabs will be traded now. I hate this FO. esp. Samson.
February 12, 200719 yr Based off a rumor that some dude heard on the radio with no in print evidence of that statement ever being made? Over something so silly as arbitration. Get a hold of your life.
February 12, 200719 yr Based off a rumor that some dude heard on the radio with no in print evidence of that statement ever being made? Over something so silly as arbitration. Get a hold of your life. You honestly doubt that this front office would trade Cabrera to save money, especially when they can make it look like it was Cabrera's fault and he forced their hand? Come on now. It wouldn't suprise me one bit and it shouldn't come as a shock to anyone if they trade him.
February 12, 200719 yr I dont buy the rumor considering just one person heard it and at this point it's beyond ridiculous to think that Cabs all of the sudden demanded a trade
February 12, 200719 yr I think you are wildly over-exaggerating. Like Miguel is the first superstar to go to arbitration. No, just the first one that has the FO ready to wage a public relations war over such an insignificant amount of money. I heard on ESPN radio 790 that Cabs is asking to be traded. Has anyone else heard anything about this? Not good,i bet the Yanks i'll be willing to give up A-Rod for Miggy.
February 12, 200719 yr Just when the fans and the players should be excited about the start of spring training the FO feels the need to take a public jab at the team's superstar. Samson we know is a putz....what surprises me here is the comment from the very smart Beinfest. Makes me wonder why. Don't forget I opined weeks ago that Cabs would not be on the team come April 1 if a stadium deal was not inked by then.
February 12, 200719 yr Based off a rumor that some dude heard on the radio with no in print evidence of that statement ever being made? Over something so silly as arbitration. Get a hold of your life. UC24, hope you don't mind me jumping off your post. I just got home and listened to 790 for a good part of the last hour. I heard nothing like that although I did hear a caller suggest something to that effect. I just checked Google News (8:30pm) and nothing either. While I'm at it I have a few other things to say. I've read through this thread. What an embarrassment it is. Some of these arguments are unbelievable and based more on people's personal hatred of all things Marlins than any kind of logic. All arguments should start and end with one incontrovertible point ... ...Cabrera was legally obligated to be at FanFest according to the terms of the contract he signed in December 2006. End of discussion. No "personal interest", no new representation gives Cabrera the right to unilaterally decide not to attend. If he had a legitimate excuse my guess is the Marlins would have fallen on the sword for him rather than having little kids standing in lines for hours waiting to get autograph passes for a player who was a no-show. The only reason for all this is SFX understands that the first year of arbitration results sets a base for subsequent years. This IS the year to play hardball and try to bully the Marlins into caving in. For SFX if they don't deliver they won't be around representing Cabrera by the time free agency rolls around. Oh btw, a quick correction. I suggested somewhere that there was one only arbiter when three is correct. Shame on me for not getting out of the cave more often. For about twenty years until the mid-1990's arbitration was with a single arbiter, I somehow missed the change. My bad.
February 12, 200719 yr Based off a rumor that some dude heard on the radio with no in print evidence of that statement ever being made? Over something so silly as arbitration. Get a hold of your life. UC24, hope you don't mind me jumping off your post. I just got home and listened to 790 for a good part of the last hour. I heard nothing like that although I did hear a caller suggest something to that effect. I just checked Google News (8:30pm) and nothing either. While I'm at it I have a few other things to say. I've read through this thread. What an embarrassment it is. Some of these arguments are unbelievable and based more on people's personal hatred of all things Marlins than any kind of logic. All arguments should start and end with one incontrovertible point ... ...Cabrera was legally obligated to be at FanFest according to the terms of the contract he signed in December 2006. End of discussion. No "personal interest", no new representation gives Cabrera the right to unilaterally decide not to attend. If he had a legitimate excuse my guess is the Marlins would have fallen on the sword for him rather than having little kids standing in lines for hours waiting to get autograph passes for a player who was a no-show. The only reason for all this is SFX understands that the first year of arbitration results sets a base for subsequent years. This IS the year to play hardball and try to bully the Marlins into caving in. For SFX if they don't deliver they won't be around representing Cabrera by the time free agency rolls around. From Pierremvp I don't hate all things Marlins....not even all things Samson, though I do think the Marlins would be better off without him. . . . Any discussion of Cabs not being at FanFest is conjecture as we just don't have all the facts. What we do have is one fact, i.e., that he was obligated to be there. I could opine that he failed to show because he feels disrespected, and he's just a kid while Beinfest is the more mature character. Normally you would expect the more mature character to keep things in-house with the team's superstar. But who knows what the cause....and effects, if any, will be. . . And I would argue that SFX has already failed to deliver in their job. Cabs IMO is a mortal lock to win his arbitration. It would have been interesting if SFX had put their figure at 9-10 Million, and I think they failed Cabs by not doing so.
February 12, 200719 yr I fail to see how we know that Cabrera was "obligated" to be there. The only thing that the article says is "expected." Unless either of you have the contract beside you, let's not presume to know its contents.
February 12, 200719 yr The only reason for all this is SFX understands that the first year of arbitration results sets a base for subsequent years. This IS the year to play hardball and try to bully the Marlins into caving in. For SFX if they don't deliver they won't be around representing Cabrera by the time free agency rolls around. What evidence do you have for SFX being behind Cabrera not attending FanFest? As far as I can tell, you are the one who started that rumor and I have not seen it reported anywhere else. All we know is Cabrera or his people told the Marlins he could not attend because of (unknown) personal reasons. As far as the hating all things Marlins spiel - way over the top. Just because some of us despise Samson and what he has done during his tenure as team president doesn't make us have "hatred of all things Marlins". By that criterion, most people here must not be Marlins fans. Until we know more about the personal reasons Cabrera didn't attend FanFest, we can't really criticize him. Even if what you say is true and SFX pressured Cabrera not to attend, this should've been settled in house and not by a publically berating our top player.
February 12, 200719 yr I fail to see how we know that Cabrera was "obligated" to be there. The only thing that the article says is "expected." Unless either of you have the contract beside you, let's not presume to know its contents. "All the major-league Marlins under contract were expected to attend Saturday's FanFest, unless there were extenuating circumstances. Samson said Cabrera signed a contract Dec. 12, but the amount won't be determined until Friday's hearing." http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sport...ll/16672996.htm Interestingly, the Marlins have removed from flamarlins.com every (I think there were two or three) articles on their displeasure with Cabrera as if the whole thing never happened. In one of them there was a quote from the Marlins about his contract obligation to attend. I wonder if the sudden disappearance of these stories portends an imminent settlement? Hmmm...
February 12, 200719 yr The only reason for all this is SFX understands that the first year of arbitration results sets a base for subsequent years. This IS the year to play hardball and try to bully the Marlins into caving in. For SFX if they don't deliver they won't be around representing Cabrera by the time free agency rolls around. What evidence do you have for SFX being behind Cabrera not attending FanFest? As far as I can tell, you are the one who started that rumor and I have not seen it reported anywhere else. All we know is Cabrera or his people told the Marlins he could not attend because of (unknown) personal reasons. As far as the hating all things Marlins spiel - way over the top. Just because some of us despise Samson and what he has done during his tenure as team president doesn't make us have "hatred of all things Marlins". By that criterion, most people here must not be Marlins fans. Until we know more about the personal reasons Cabrera didn't attend FanFest, we can't really criticize him. Even if what you say is true and SFX pressured Cabrera not to attend, this should've been settled in house and not by a publically berating our top player. It wasn't a rumor it was an observation and if you don't think they are pulling the strings here you have your head in the sand. When you ignore the other half of the equation - Cabrera's obligations - all that is left is BS. This idea that this should have been settled in house is amateurish and naive. That's not how the world works. And for the record I was doing business with SFX twenty-five years ago.
February 12, 200719 yr I fail to see how we know that Cabrera was "obligated" to be there. The only thing that the article says is "expected." Unless either of you have the contract beside you, let's not presume to know its contents. "All the major-league Marlins under contract were expected to attend Saturday's FanFest, unless there were extenuating circumstances. Samson said Cabrera signed a contract Dec. 12, but the amount won't be determined until Friday's hearing." http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sport...ll/16672996.htm Interestingly, the Marlins have removed from flamarlins.com every (I think there were two or three) articles on their displeasure with Cabrera as if the whole thing never happened. In one of them there was a quote from the Marlins about his contract obligation to attend. I wonder if the sudden disappearance of these stories portends an imminent settlement? Hmmm... Or it's possible that the contract never actually stipulated what you claim the front office said, and Cabrera was not "obligated" to attend. Perhaps the team's legal counsel advised them to remove the articles because they misrepresented the contracts? I also would find it very hard to believe that Cabrera's representation would have him miss fanfest, as you posit, if it would break the terms of his contract. Nonetheless, we still don't know what the contract's details are, so let's assume Cabrera broke nothing except convention.
February 12, 200719 yr All arguments should start and end with one incontrovertible point ... ...Cabrera was legally obligated to be at FanFest according to the terms of the contract he signed in December 2006. End of discussion. No "personal interest", no new representation gives Cabrera the right to unilaterally decide not to attend. If he had a legitimate excuse my guess is the Marlins would have fallen on the sword for him rather than having little kids standing in lines for hours waiting to get autograph passes for a player who was a no-show. The only reason for all this is SFX understands that the first year of arbitration results sets a base for subsequent years. This IS the year to play hardball and try to bully the Marlins into caving in. For SFX if they don't deliver they won't be around representing Cabrera by the time free agency rolls around. Height of hypocracy? So we're saying that this is an entirely embarassing thread because people are basing their OPINIONS as to things they spin as fact, yet you close with an OPINION (and if I may say, a far more unsubstantiated opinion than the much used "goddamn we're cheap and that's going to cost us Miggy" opinion) yet it's presented as fact, multiple times. Shame, shame, shame.
February 12, 200719 yr The only reason for all this is SFX understands that the first year of arbitration results sets a base for subsequent years. This IS the year to play hardball and try to bully the Marlins into caving in. For SFX if they don't deliver they won't be around representing Cabrera by the time free agency rolls around. What evidence do you have for SFX being behind Cabrera not attending FanFest? As far as I can tell, you are the one who started that rumor and I have not seen it reported anywhere else. All we know is Cabrera or his people told the Marlins he could not attend because of (unknown) personal reasons. As far as the hating all things Marlins spiel - way over the top. Just because some of us despise Samson and what he has done during his tenure as team president doesn't make us have "hatred of all things Marlins". By that criterion, most people here must not be Marlins fans. Until we know more about the personal reasons Cabrera didn't attend FanFest, we can't really criticize him. Even if what you say is true and SFX pressured Cabrera not to attend, this should've been settled in house and not by a publically berating our top player. It wasn't a rumor it was an observation and if you don't think they are pulling the strings here you have your head in the sand. When you ignore the other half of the equation - Cabrera's obligations - all that is left is BS. This idea that this should have been settled in house is amateurish and naive. That's not how the world works. And for the record I was doing business with SFX twenty-five years ago. You stated, and continue to state it, as if it is a fact that SFX was behind this. It isn't an observation, it is a conjecture on your part based on no evidence outside of the fact Cabrera/SFX and the Marlins are going to arbitration. We do not know that SFX is behind this. It could very well be true, but I don't know what is going on in Cabrera's personal life enough right now to say for sure. I am not ignoring Cabrera's obligations. But apparently you are ignoring the "extenuating circumstances" portion of the contract refrenced in the Herald article that allows him not to attend FanFest. What exactly the circumstances were behind Cabrera's absence may have been allowed under the terms of the contract he signed. We just don't know, and apparently Samson didn't as well going by these quotes: ``We have tried to contact him and we were told he couldn't be here for personal reasons or whatever the case was. Hopefully, when we see him, he will explain to us and the fans why he wasn't.'' Samson was given no reason to believe that Cabrera's absence is related to this week's arbitration hearing in Phoenix. ''Miguel's an adult,'' Samson said. ``He knows it's a business.'' Which is why this should have been handled in-house. Until Samson had all of the facts, he should have kept his mouth shut. Instead, he just goes out, shooting from the hip. And this going into a possibly contentious arbitration hearing. Foolish and potentially damaging move, but what this is what we have come to expect from our esteemed team president so I guess it makes it OK.
February 12, 200719 yr Since everyone except me seems to agree that Cabrera was obligated to be there, can someone verify this? The only article I've seen has Samson saying that all those under contract were "expected" to be at fanfest. There is an immense difference between the two words.
February 12, 200719 yr Since everyone except me seems to agree that Cabrera was obligated to be there, can someone verify this? The only article I've seen has Samson saying that all those under contract were "expected" to be at fanfest. There is an immense difference between the two words. I'm also in the "expected" camp with you. And, further, let's just pretend 2003's right (operative word pretend) and that it is contractually obligated by his December signing to be at fan-fest. If that is true, his SFX conspiracy theory would have to unequivocally be false. On the eve of the biggest arbitration hearing of the off-season (I believe market altering would be an accurate assesment) SFX would never, ever, advise one of their clients to take an action that would be in direct violation of the contract. Any behavior like that would greatly alter their negotiating position and give a bullet to the Marlins for the hearing. :whistle
February 12, 200719 yr And, further, let's just pretend 2003's right (operative word pretend) and that it is contractually obligated by his December signing to be at fan-fest. If that is true, his SFX conspiracy theory would have to unequivocally be false. On the eve of the biggest arbitration hearing of the off-season (I believe market altering would be an accurate assesment) SFX would never, ever, advise one of their clients to take an action that would be in direct violation of the contract. Any behavior like that would greatly alter their negotiating position and give a bullet to the Marlins for the hearing. :whistle Yup. It's completely illogical.
February 12, 200719 yr Since everyone except me seems to agree that Cabrera was obligated to be there, can someone verify this? The only article I've seen has Samson saying that all those under contract were "expected" to be at fanfest. There is an immense difference between the two words. I'm also in the "expected" camp with you. And, further, let's just pretend 2003's right (operative word pretend) and that it is contractually obligated by his December signing to be at fan-fest. If that is true, his SFX conspiracy theory would have to unequivocally be false. On the eve of the biggest arbitration hearing of the off-season (I believe market altering would be an accurate assesment) SFX would never, ever, advise one of their clients to take an action that would be in direct violation of the contract. Any behavior like that would greatly alter their negotiating position and give a bullet to the Marlins for the hearing. :whistle it wont make a damn bit of differnece at the hearing.
February 12, 200719 yr Me = getting sick of this team. the front office doesnt know what the hell is going on with their players. i hope cabbs leaves in a few years and gets more money somewhere else, or we just trade him for his sake.hes a young manny ramirez basically with his attitudes and everything, itd be better off for him, if hes gone making the big bucks.
February 12, 200719 yr I also would find it very hard to believe that Cabrera's representation would have him miss fanfest, as you posit, if it would break the terms of his contract. Nonetheless, we still don't know what the contract's details are, so let's assume Cabrera broke nothing except convention. I realize that you don't understand contract law but this isn't an issue that would be considered a material breach of his contract, merely an annoyance. It isn't going to "break"the contract. This insanity that some want to cling to that Cabrera fires his agent of many years, goes out and hires SFX in part because of their reputation and involvement in high-powered negotiations and then decides for himself to ignore not just the week of caravans throughout South Florida (which frankly if I were him I'd pass on too) but FanFest as well is ludicrous. There's only one thing I can think of that Cabrera would be upset about and that was the Marlins refusal to let him play for Venezuela in CWS. Otherwise this has to be orchestrated by SFX who wouldn't want their guy "off the reservation" as the saying goes on the eve of arbitration. I was reading some interesting pieces today on the baseball arbitration process and one of the things pointed out was even though the arbiters are not supposed to know what hearings (players) they will be assigned to, it frequently winds up being leaked one way or the other. Certainly every arbiter who will be participating has heard about this dustup by now. http://krypton.mnsu.edu/~millep1/papers/ar...%20revenues.pdf Do the players know who their arbiters will be? Yes. They learn the identity of the arbiters at the same time the hearing date and time are set, in this case on Feb. 19. The arbiters, however, are not supposed to know the players' identity prior to the hearing, although many get that information via newspaper or Internet reports. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...6&fext=.jsp No one has to agree but for the life of me I can't imagine a young guy going out and hiring SFX who are going to cost him a fortune and half and then not taking their advice. Beyond everything else that is the best emperical evidence there is who is calling the shots here. Parethetically, I have a friend selling a business right now who has narrowed the gap between buyer and seller from what was $90,000 to chump change, $6,000, and at $350 an hour (each) everytime their lawyers speak they both keep losing money but neither one will budge. The lawyers have a solution that works for both sides but neither will accept it, so assinine is the situation. Here with (Miggy), you have an obvious solution that both sides should be able to work with, a $6.7 base and easily attainable bonuses that brings it to $7.4. So yes, I blame SFX they ought to show some flexibility because this should been resolved weeks ago. What the Marlins want is $6.7 as a base and what Cabrera wants is $7.4 in the bank by the end of the season. Right now SFX seems intent on showing Cabrera their negotiating muscle but that's a risky move should the arbiter side with the team, which history tells us happens more times than not. It could be by next season Miggy has moved on to new representation, who knows. In coming up short after promising too much, disaster could be on the horizon for this pairing.
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