Many people predict Julio to end up like Jones or Borowski but I see him being more like someone named Herges I mean for every good closer we also had a VERY bad closer in the begining of the season.

 

Give Julio a break... even Todd Jones blew his first save for us... and he saved what? 40? Give him a chance the Marlins are good at picking out bargain closers. So stop whining and wait!

 

Two words: Guillermo Mota.

Braden Looper

Fredi did not make a mistake. Julio is the closer.

That's a stupid argument.

Closers should exist because the roles help a team win, not because they help protect managers from criticism

Fredi did not make a mistake. Julio is the closer.

That's a stupid argument.

Closers should exist because the roles help a team win, not because they help protect managers from criticism

 

Huh?

Fredi did not make a mistake. Julio is the closer.

Ok he's the closer. So when he's losing the game and his "stuff" is all over the place, you leave him in to blow the game with the bases loaded? Come on. A sensible manager would have pulled Trevor Hoffman (and he was pulled numerous times by Bochy) in such a situation.

Many people predict Julio to end up like Jones or Borowski but I see him being more like someone named Herges I mean for every good closer we also had a VERY bad closer in the begining of the season.

 

Give Julio a break... even Todd Jones blew his first save for us... and he saved what? 40? Give him a chance the Marlins are good at picking out bargain closers. So stop whining and wait!

 

Two words: Guillermo Mota.

Braden Looper

Vladimir Nunez

 

and Dustin Hermanson was the Reds expected closer, gets rocked in his last ST appearance against us and he's gone. Julio should have a short leash. It really does not matter about his contract. Would you rather watch us lose games we should win so he gets his money or would you rather pay him, not pitch him, and watch us win. It is the same dollars out the door, but if the choice is winning or losing-well? OK, I am not throwing him out with the bath water yet, but, there is a limit and he needs to do it sooner than later.

Normally I would agree that in a situation like that when the closer walks to the mound then douses the outfield with gasoline and starts throwing around blue tips, yes its time to get a fresh arm in there.... but you don't pull the guy when its his first save opportunity in the third game of the year. You stick with him, and show him that you have confidence in him. If you don't give the guy a few chances to prove himself, you will never know what kind of player you have. Its a long season, and there will be other heartbreaking losses. Yesterday was not the time to pull Julio. I personally don't think that Jorge is the answer, but you gotta at least give him a chance.

the answer to this question can be found by completing the following:

1. press on page 5

2. scroll to the middle of the page

3. read PBCMarlinFan's post

the answer to this question can be found by completing the following:

1. press on page 5

2. scroll to the middle of the page

3. read PBCMarlinFan's post

 

Darn, he is right, and it makes it even worse. I was just listening to the game at work and did not really consider that he was starting out with the bottom of lineup. OK, I need to chill, give him his chance and hope that in mid sept. the five games he blows early in the season isnt enough to blow a playoff chance. It was last year with the blown games early in the season.

prin, let me expand your quote. "Fredi did not make a mistake. Julio is the closer. Whether you like it or not it's Julio's job to close games. If he fails too often then the job should go to someone else. But he must be given the opportunity to begin with. A few more games like this one early in the season will result in a demotion."

 

You're arguing that it's alright that Fredi let Julio stay in because he's the closer and a closer's job is to end games. Well, when a closer appears not to be able to hold onto a win or tie, then he's not good to close that game. Whether he gets a second chance is something you think about after the game. But for that game, the "closer" is benched and you call on a guy who gives you a better chance at ending the game with a victory.

I've been busy like crazy but it dawns on me that Julio's problem didn't apear to be velocity, but rather placement in the strike zone or finding it for that matter.

 

These are signs his problems are mechanical and if they are (because in the alternative he could be hiding an injury) there's a good chance Kranitz working with him will be able to resolve them. We certainly have seen other pitchers before with mechanical problems that Kranitz has done wonders with.

 

Clearly, for his own selfish reasons, for his own pride, for the team he wants to do well and can't be happy with what happened. He's a grown man, this perhaps was a blessing in disguise (in that he wasn't just a bit off, he was horrible and his problems I would think identifiable by a professional pitching coach) and he'll work to figure them out.

 

So I guess for the time being I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt in hopes he's fixable. If not I'll be glad to buy him a one way ticket to Palookaville. I'm keeping the cash handy just in case.

I don't think any of the doubters have questioned his velocity. I am actually quite surprised by your first sentence there unless you were intending to be facetious...

 

I didn't bother to copy the rest of your post above because you missed the reason for my post completely.

 

It was my opinion.

 

I wasn't responding to any "doubters". Nor was anything I said meant to be facetious.

 

Pengy buddy, you think too much. If I say I don't really care what your opinion is it isn't because I don't think your opinion has value because I do. I'm comfortable with my opinion, I don't need validation from someone else, or a criticism of it either. If I stated it as fact ("he is this", his problem is that") then we can debate it all night but people are entitled to their opinion, I voiced mine and for me its not open to debate.

 

Agree, disagree, be my guest but I didn't quote any other posts in this thread, I didn't reference anyone else. Truth is I don't think I've even read much if any of this thread because I've had alot on my plate this week, I was simply responded to the question referenced in the title of this thread.

 

Let me repeat for you. I suspect his problem may be mechanical and as such it very well may be fixable. Okay?

Right, but you suggested that you didn't believe his problem was velocity, when that has never been the case. You're really just stating the obvious.

 

Kinda like me saying, well I believe Hanley's problem isn't being awesome.

I don't think any of the doubters have questioned his velocity. I am actually quite surprised by your first sentence there unless you were intending to be facetious.

 

 

While watching him in Baltimore it had always been apparent that he had raw ability in his velocity but was sorely lacking diversity of pitches, a pitcher's mindset, and location. The three of those are basically interconnected.

 

 

Essentially he winds up, throws as hard as he can and doesn't give a damn about what else that happens to it. Whether Kranitz can fix him, I do not know.

 

 

 

If Beinfest's plan all along was to take raw velocity and polish it into something useful under Kranitz that might make some sense to me. BUT only in a low-risk, high-reward scenario. The fact that Julio will be the third highest paid Marlin does not allow this to settle well with me.

Brian Moehler 2k7?

Right, but you suggested that you didn't believe his problem was velocity, when that has never been the case. You're really just stating the obvious.

 

Kinda like me saying, well I believe Hanley's problem isn't being awesome.

 

No.

 

The point was his velocity wasn't the problem. It COULD have been the problem, but it wasn't. There is clearly something wrong, I was eliminating one potential sign of a problem. If it were his velocity (see later in my original post) it might have been an indication of an injury.

 

Your obsession with correcting something that didn't need correcting is remarkable. I state my opinion, live with it. But people don't need to argue a point I wasn't making.

 

As for Hanley's problem, realizing you were in fact being facetious, it's that he's a mediocre defender with minimal range. Luckily he makes up for it in so many other ways it doesn't really matter. He's adequate. Go watch old man Renteria and see how a real shortstop fields the position. Ramirez has so far to go defensively before the word "awesome" is used in the same sentence it's laughable. If he makes it as an all-star this season, and I expect he will, it won't be for his glove, and we both know it, it will be for his offense.

And your obsession with posting the obvious is remarkable too.

 

"I suspect Julio's velocity wasn't the problem"

 

Well no sh*t sherlock. The dude was throwing 400mph. Why even both making that suggestion?

That the two of you are the best examples here of what higher education is turning out these days is :banghead

That the two of you are the best examples here of what higher education is turning out these days is :banghead

 

So when all else fails, personally attack rather than making a case for your argument (if we can even call it that since stating the overly obvious doesn't really fall in the realm of opinion or argument).

 

:thumbup

So when all else fails, personally attack rather than making a case for your argument (if we can even call it that since stating the overly obvious doesn't really fall in the realm of opinion or argument).

 

:thumbup

Why not? Especially when being hassled for saying something that NO ONE disagrees with.

That the two of you are the best examples here of what higher education is turning out these days is :banghead

 

So when all else fails, personally attack rather than making a case for your argument (if we can even call it that since stating the overly obvious doesn't really fall in the realm of opinion or argument).

 

:thumbup

 

You should be the last person to accuse anyone of personal attacks . OMG.

why is it okay to attack someone on a simple comment that no one disagrees with?

 

a lot of people on this board say obvious things, and most of the time people don't jump on it.

why is it okay to attack someone on a simple comment that no one disagrees with?

 

a lot of people on this board say obvious things, and most of the time people don't jump on it.

 

Very simply there's a half dozen people here for whom being argumentative is a blood sport and because of them we have twenty or thirty regular contributors here instead hundreds. In my case I was simply setting up the contention his problems were mechanical and as such addressable by our pitching coach when I said velocity wasn't a problem. Further I said I hadn't read through the thread so these were my thoughts not based on anyone elses, and as such should be considered in that light.

 

But for this cadre with their horrible reading comprehension or ADD or whatever it is that doesn't allow them to read a body of work and consider it in its totality but rather revel in exploiting a single word or phrase to distort the thrust of a post, no matter how non-controversial it was in the first place, is the very reason so many have left here with their hands thrown to the skies saying "I came here to talk baseball not be insulted".

 

In my case that isn't going to happen. Anyone who actually read what I wrote understands the "velocity" issue was mentioned only to be excluded so that I could focus on my core belief. Further, that I wasn't 100% in Julio's camp either. But distortion is their practice and we choose whether to join in with their wretched little game or not.

 

Personally, I decline.

I agree that having good velocity means he's not fundamentally down and out. He still has good stuff. He just needs to figure out how to control it and be effective. Which, truth be told, may mean he needs to iron out some mechanical issues. Rick Kranitz is good at doing that. Let's hope he can do it once again. :thumbup

 

I agree with you.

 

I disagree with those that have knee jerk reactions to one f***ing game and make it seem like he blew game 7 of the world f***ing series.

This thread is goin nowhere fast.

 

 

To respond to the orginial question of "should we be worried about the Marlins closer?"

 

 

 

Of course we should. Whether we picked up Julio or didnt pick him up, we should be very worried. Its a key position. Not having a strong closer is back breaking to a team and it's fans (see Wednesday's game).

 

 

 

New game, new night tonite fellas.

why is it okay to attack someone on a simple comment that no one disagrees with?

 

a lot of people on this board say obvious things, and most of the time people don't jump on it.

 

Very simply there's a half dozen people here for whom being argumentative is a blood sport and because of them we have twenty or thirty regular contributors here instead hundreds. In my case I was simply setting up the contention his problems were mechanical and as such addressable by our pitching coach when I said velocity wasn't a problem. Further I said I hadn't read through the thread so these were my thoughts not based on anyone elses, and as such should be considered in that light.

 

But for this cadre with their horrible reading comprehension or ADD or whatever it is that doesn't allow them to read a body of work and consider it in its totality but rather revel in exploiting a single word or phrase to distort the thrust of a post, no matter how non-controversial it was in the first place, is the very reason so many have left here with their hands thrown to the skies saying "I came here to talk baseball not be insulted".

 

In my case that isn't going to happen. Anyone who actually read what I wrote understands the "velocity" issue was mentioned only to be excluded so that I could focus on my core belief. Further, that I wasn't 100% in Julio's camp either. But distortion is their practice and we choose whether to join in with their wretched little game or not.

 

Personally, I decline.

I love you. One of the best posts we'll see all season. .

New game, new night tonite fellas.

 

Yes tonight is a new game and a new night. Time to make amends because Game 4 isn't Game 3. Tonight is Opening Night for the Marlins and there should be a packed house of Marlins fans. In Washington, it was not a packed house of Marlins fans.

 

As for Jorge Julio. I'll tell you one thing, velocity sure won't be a problem as he will continue to try to throw the ball through the catcher. Our catchers are either Miguel Olivo or Matt Treanor. I refuse to believe that his problems are indeed mechanical for that would make this trade even worse. Let's trade for even more of a project!

 

Anyway like Donnie said, it's a new night. Julio can shut me and a bunch of others up for a good 24 hours if he has a good outing tonight. Because you know all Marlins-Phillies games are close.