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Had a discussion with Rep. Marty Kiar this weekend


DelGOT2Rings
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For those who don't know, he is a rep. (D) from Davie/Plantation who voted against the proposal. We spent this past weekend at a wedding, and we spent a lot of time talking about the Marlins. He touts himself to be a big marlins' fan, but that "his heart wouldn't let him vote for such a giveaway when there were other pressing needs." To be honest, I came away very impressed with him, and I believe he will make a great representative for his district (which, by the way, includes much of my family). It is a shame he voted against the proposal, but I found him to be very genuine. I did give him a lot of grief this weekend for voting against the rebate, but he took it in stride.

 

ANYWAY, I floated the idea to him that, if the Marlins actually had a new stadium, it would pretty much guarantee that MLB would host an all-star game in Miami within 5 years of the stadium being built. And, I pointed out to him that the revenue generated from that weekend, which would be substantial, would come predominately from non-residents and corporate sponsors, and would probably more than offset much of the tax rebate (I pointed that just this week the revenues for the City Miami came back and were substantially increased over last quarter due to the superbowl festivities). So, I told him that he should pitch the idea that the tax rebate would be contingent on MLB guaranteeing an all-star game within 5 years of the stadium being built. He told me that this was "a phenomenal idea", and that he might actually get behind sponsoring a proposal like this. I told him he was welcome to steal it.

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For those who don't know, he is a rep. (D) from Davie/Plantation who voted against the proposal. We spent this past weekend at a wedding, and we spent a lot of time talking about the Marlins. He touts himself to be a big marlins' fan, but that "his heart wouldn't let him vote for such a giveaway when there were other pressing needs." To be honest, I came away very impressed with him, and I believe he will make a great representative for his district (which, by the way, includes much of my family). It is a shame he voted against the proposal, but I found him to be very genuine. I did give him a lot of grief this weekend for voting against the rebate, but he took it in stride.

Good job. Wished you could have asked him what he is giving away since the rebate is only being generated by a new park. Thus, any extra taxes generated by a new park are also not available. It is really a take away but it sounds good politically.

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The way this stadium proposal is going, I don't even think Jesus could get a deal done.

I have to agree. Every time it looks like we're getting close, something hits a snag, and the legislation dies.

 

I hate how $30-60 million is keeping this stadium from construction.

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For those who don't know, he is a rep. (D) from Davie/Plantation who voted against the proposal. We spent this past weekend at a wedding, and we spent a lot of time talking about the Marlins. He touts himself to be a big marlins' fan, but that "his heart wouldn't let him vote for such a giveaway when there were other pressing needs." To be honest, I came away very impressed with him, and I believe he will make a great representative for his district (which, by the way, includes much of my family). It is a shame he voted against the proposal, but I found him to be very genuine. I did give him a lot of grief this weekend for voting against the rebate, but he took it in stride.

Good job. Wished you could have asked him what he is giving away since the rebate is only being generated by a new park. Thus, any extra taxes generated by a new park are also not available. It is really a take away but it sounds good politically.

Thanks. I don't want to rehash a debate here, but it is a giveaway. It is a delayed giveaway, but a giveaway nonetheless (it doesn't matter if the stadium is built or not, the state is eventually going to get your money via sales tax on other items/services unless you choose to never spend the money on anything that incurs tax in Florida). Even the proponents recognize that it is a giveaway, but generally feel that the giveaway is justified for other reasons (economic re-development, increased community morale, etc.) The thing he seemed intrigued about, which is not talked about much, is the idea that the all-star game weekend would be a "bonus" that would almost certainly be realized with a new Marlins park, as opposed to say a new stadium for soccer or performing arts center, which would generate substantial revenues primarily from out-of-state interests (thus, generating sales tax revenue that would not otherwise be generated by in-state residents who would spend their Marlins' money on other items/services that create tax revenues for the state). Anyway, if Florida is in the black next year, he seemed like he may be more inclined to vote for a stadium under less constrained financial circumstances.

 

I hate how $30-60 million is keeping this stadium from construction.

Isn't that the worst part of the entire equation?? If Loria would have ponied up the money in 2003, he would have saved that money in delayed construction costs.

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Thanks. I don't want to rehash a debate here, but it is a giveaway. It is a delayed giveaway, but a giveaway nonetheless (it doesn't matter if the stadium is built or not, the state is eventually going to get your money via sales tax on other items/services unless you choose to never spend the money on anything that incurs tax in Florida). Even the proponents recognize that it is a giveaway, but generally feel that the giveaway is justified for other reasons (economic re-development, increased community morale, etc.) The thing he seemed intrigued about, which is not talked about much, is the idea that the all-star game weekend would be a "bonus" that would almost certainly be realized with a new Marlins park, as opposed to say a new stadium for soccer or performing arts center, which would generate substantial revenues primarily from out-of-state interests (thus, generating sales tax revenue that would not otherwise be generated by in-state residents who would spend their Marlins' money on other items/services that create tax revenues for the state). Anyway, if Florida is in the black next year, he seemed like he may be more inclined to vote for a stadium under less constrained financial circumstances.

 

 

I agree, we went through a long discussion on this, however, you see, it could be argued that all those people who come for the all star game are just making a choice to make a S. Florida vacation at that time because of the added attraction. Likely, they would have come some other time, but now they won't. And the thing is, no one can prove it or not. Anyway, I respect your opinion on this-I just don't respect some of the politicians. Remember, some were against it, like Deutch, because he said that there are more important things the STATE needs the money for, EXCEPT, if it was built closer to PB county, then his constituents would have more reason to go, and then he could consider it. Last time I looked, the State would have all the same needs even if the stadium is too far for his citizens. Just more politics. I guess the money allocated for a rowing canal in another county is very important. YOu see, there are so many smaller "giveaways" that we never hear about, but they add up, that make me just so cynical.

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If it is not one thing, it's another.

We will NEVER get state help for a Marlins stadium. PERIOD!!!! Get used to it.

 

The city/county/team must get it done.

Hopefully, there will be some progress once the Univ. of Miami finally decides where they will play football. Reportedly they were going to decide by the end of May or early June.

We won't see any movement on the stadium front before then.

Once that is settled, they will need to see about the missing the $ 30 million and what site to choose (downtown vs Orange Bowl) then we will be home free. Simple, right?

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Are there any worse sites than the OB? :banghead

 

Yes. Dolphin Stadium with no roof and uncle Wayne sucking the team dry

 

rep.kiar like most politicians tells people what he thinks they want to hear , the amount of money the marlins are asking for is virtually nothing in a budget as big as florida's if he truly is a big marlin fan he would support the stadium bill , he is a liar pure and simple .

Bingo

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rep.kiar like most politicians tells people what he thinks they want to hear , the amount of money the marlins are asking for is virtually nothing in a budget as big as florida's if he truly is a big marlin fan he would support the stadium bill , he is a liar pure and simple .

This isn't some career politician. This is a 29 year-old guy who quit a budding legal career because he wanted to be more involved in helping the community. I honestly believe he doesn't think the state can afford to give the Marlins $60 million because there is a better use for the money. Calling someone a liar is easy, but I think in this instance it is untrue.

 

On another note, I honestly believe the Marlins have taken the wrong approach to getting government support for a stadium. Instead of trying to ransom funds with threats of leaving, they should focus more on what a new stadium would mean to Florida residents and the community. Why not submit proposals to use the new roofed stadium as an emergency site for future hurricanes, or agree to host all high school baseball state champ. games, etc. You know, try to actually pretend that the giveaway does something to help the state of Florida other than keeping a team here that a) nobody cares about (except for us few diehards) and b) is run by a shortsighted ownership group that, if they would have simply built a stadium from the beginning in 2003, would have saved much more than $60 million in construction costs.

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rep.kiar like most politicians tells people what he thinks they want to hear , the amount of money the marlins are asking for is virtually nothing in a budget as big as florida's if he truly is a big marlin fan he would support the stadium bill , he is a liar pure and simple .

This isn't some career politician. This is a 29 year-old guy who quit a budding legal career because he wanted to be more involved in helping the community. I honestly believe he doesn't think the state can afford to give the Marlins $60 million because there is a better use for the money. Calling someone a liar is easy, but I think in this instance it is untrue.

 

On another note, I honestly believe the Marlins have taken the wrong approach to getting government support for a stadium. Instead of trying to ransom funds with threats of leaving, they should focus more on what a new stadium would mean to Florida residents and the community. Why not submit proposals to use the new roofed stadium as an emergency site for future hurricanes, or agree to host all high school baseball state champ. games, etc. You know, try to actually pretend that the giveaway does something to help the state of Florida other than keeping a team here that a) nobody cares about (except for us few diehards) and b) is run by a shortsighted ownership group that, if they would have simply built a stadium from the beginning in 2003, would have saved much more than $60 million in construction costs.

 

With respect i disagree .i have known too many politicians it is easy to say they are liars because it is true . there are many ways one can help the public i wonder why this man chose elected office .....EGO , and when you mention a budding career two thoughts came to my mind 1 . he has not accomplished anything as a professional 2. he must have very wealthy parents who have subsidized his silver spoon existance . while the stadium bill and the marlins in general maybe not be the most popular thing for politicians to support your politician friend is A lying to your face about the issue of enough money to help the marlins , or B isnt quite the genius he portrays himself to be because to say we dont have enough money for the stadium is a lie 2 million dollars a year in our budget is nothing .You can believe the guy is a good guy but trust me he will let you down like all politicians do, and ask yourself a question obviously the marlins are truly important to you otherwise you would not be here , would you be prepared to let the marlins leave over a insignifiant amount of money that every other pro sports team has access too , i suspect you wouldnt and rep kiar would .

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rep.kiar like most politicians tells people what he thinks they want to hear , the amount of money the marlins are asking for is virtually nothing in a budget as big as florida's if he truly is a big marlin fan he would support the stadium bill , he is a liar pure and simple .

This isn't some career politician. This is a 29 year-old guy who quit a budding legal career because he wanted to be more involved in helping the community. I honestly believe he doesn't think the state can afford to give the Marlins $60 million because there is a better use for the money. We do not know what his ambitions or motivation is, and if they are selfish he is not going to say that. He will say what is expected of him. $60 mill sounds like a lot and it is, IF IT WAS IN ONE YEAR. Over 30 years, it is about the same per year as the Osceola county rowing canal was given this year and other pet garbage deals will be given for 30 years. The difference is those are "giveaways", not generating anything.

On another note, I honestly believe the Marlins have taken the wrong approach to getting government support for a stadium. Instead of trying to ransom funds with threats of leaving, they should focus more on what a new stadium would mean to Florida residents and the community. Why not submit proposals to use the new roofed stadium as an emergency site for future hurricanes, or agree to host all high school baseball state champ. games, etc. You know, try to actually pretend that the giveaway does something to help the state of Florida other than keeping a team here that a) nobody cares about (except for us few diehards) and b) is run by a shortsighted ownership group that, if they would have simply built a stadium from the beginning in 2003, would have saved much more than $60 million in construction costs.

I think the Marlins have tried every darn approach you mention above. Unfortunately, Loria has seen through history that the threat to leave is the most effective. Even the yankees threatened to leave. I do not like that approach, but it has been used everywhere, and effectively.

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Except the state isnt giving the Marlins $60 million. The state is letting the Marlins keep $2 million in taxes every year for 30 years while the Marlins give them $7 million.

This issue has been exhaustively debated on this board, so there is no need to further flesh out everyone's understanding of basic economics. However, with all do respect, if you honestly believe it isn't a "giveaway," what possible reasons would these politicians have to vote the proposal down?? If you believe it is because they're evil people who don't like baseball, I think you're misguided. It is a giveaway plain and simple (allbeit over 30 years). It is unfortunate that people on this board like to think otherwise, but a "tax rebate" is money that would otherwise go to the state regardless whether the Marlins exist or not. Trust me, if the Marlins stadium were to generate 7 million of new sales tax a year that would not otherwise exist, the proposal would pass unanimously. It simply doesn't work the way you think it does. And, the state of Florida lost a billion dollars last year in projected revenue. State attorneys have been declined pay increases. Schools have been denied funding. Florida does not have a state sales tax, and pretty much relies solely on sales tax to fund its operations.

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On another note, I honestly believe the Marlins have taken the wrong approach to getting government support for a stadium. Instead of trying to ransom funds with threats of leaving, they should focus more on what a new stadium would mean to Florida residents and the community. Why not submit proposals to use the new roofed stadium as an emergency site for future hurricanes, or agree to host all high school baseball state champ. games, etc. You know, try to actually pretend that the giveaway does something to help the state of Florida other than keeping a team here that a) nobody cares about (except for us few diehards) and b) is run by a shortsighted ownership group that, if they would have simply built a stadium from the beginning in 2003, would have saved much more than $60 million in construction costs.

I think the Marlins have tried every darn approach you mention above. Unfortunately, Loria has seen through history that the threat to leave is the most effective. Even the yankees threatened to leave. I do not like that approach, but it has been used everywhere, and effectively.

Have they proposed my ideas? I'm seriously asking this, because I've never heard of them doing this, and I think these types of ideas are what get disinterested representatives onboard ideas that have nothing to do with their constitiuents.

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Except the state isnt giving the Marlins $60 million. The state is letting the Marlins keep $2 million in taxes every year for 30 years while the Marlins give them $7 million.

This issue has been exhaustively debated on this board, so there is no need to further flesh out everyone's understanding of basic economics. However, with all do respect, if you honestly believe it isn't a "giveaway," what possible reasons would these politicians have to vote the proposal down?? If you believe it is because they're evil people who don't like baseball, I think you're misguided. It is a giveaway plain and simple (allbeit over 30 years). It is unfortunate that people on this board like to think otherwise, but a "tax rebate" is money that would otherwise go to the state regardless whether the Marlins exist or not. Trust me, if the Marlins stadium were to generate 7 million of new sales tax a year that would not otherwise exist, the proposal would pass unanimously. It simply doesn't work the way you think it does. And, the state of Florida lost a billion dollars last year in projected revenue. State attorneys have been declined pay increases. Schools have been denied funding. Florida does not have a state sales tax, and pretty much relies solely on sales tax to fund its operations.

I think most of us, except you, would agree that if the rebate was approved or not, you would not see a single extra book in the schools. I also doubt, with all my heart, that there will be a salary increase to any single State Attorney because of the Marlins rebate being denied. I completely disagree with you, but I have told you I respect your point of view on this-but please, do not tell people who disagree with you that they are misguided and unfortunate. You might as well just poison any debate by simply starting out with the following "my view is.... and anyone disagreeing with me is just stupid and wrong, so don't try to disagree with me-I know better than you". Oh, what possible reason would a politician have for disagreeing with the rebate if it was positive-do you really need to ask? Perception to their voters for one. It is easier to sell your voters that you are watching out for their dollars by telling them you are not giving millions for a S. Florida baseball team than it is to convince them that it makes sense. Seems the Governor disagrees with you also, but he must be unfortunately misguided-to use your words.

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I hope they close the $30 million gap between the city, county and team because if they wait around for another year and go back to the state with the same "economic development" argument I expect them to lose again. Regarding the potential economic impact from an all-star game I think the state economists probably took that into account in their report. I don't think the economic impact of the game would be that significant. Maybe it would cover the $2 million for one year but I doubt it would even be that much.

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