exactly, and as long as he is pocketing tens of millions, he can cry poor with the stadium, and probably won't have to answer to anyone until they move into (if) a new building. He can polish his 03 ring and know he already has won, so now he can collect from the MLB till.

 

When the time comes, they will make a half hearted offer to sign Miggy, at 50% of what he can get elsewhere, say thats the max they can do as they turn their pockets inside out and trade him.

 

 

:o :o :o :o Very disheartening. This ownership really blows the big one.

 

Can we as fans petition MLB to get rid of them ?

The FO is trying to get this done as quickly as possible.

 

$500 million deals do not occur overnight.

 

Samson on 790 the other day said he didn't care about the "debate" between the OB or downtown site. He just wanted to get the damn thing built already.

 

Yeah but weren't they really close like 3 years ago and all they needed was $ 30 million. Didn't they get like $ 40 some million from the luxury tax last year & this year ? That's like $ 50 million profit (after the payroll) more than enough to bridge the gap. What's the holdup, they should have their money now ?

The thing about the $30 million wasn't as much as it wasn't there, that neither the team or local municipalities were willing to cover it. The luxury tax (actually revenue sharing transfers from high-revenue teams; luxury tax revenues go to league funds) the team received reportedly has been used to keep the team solvent.

No. The current ownership knows that because of baseball's unique economic landscape they're more profitable with a scorched-earth payroll than a competitive one. They don't operate in good faith, the fans don't show up. They don't care, they're making scads of money. They don't expect a turn-out, quite frankly they don't care.

 

TSwift what you are saying is horrifying me to hell. Please tell me you are joking. This is scandalous and MLB needs to step in, they have to rectify this somehow.

Don't worry, TSwift likes to present things that way. If you read closely and fact check him, you'll notice that the situation is not as drastic or absurd as he makes things out to be. Such as his post in this thread that suggests that Loria is pocketing tens of millions of dollars. A closer reading and a little research would suggest that much of the revenue sharing transfers have been spent to keep the team financially solvent and its operations active. For any one who doubts that or would rather believe in the version of Loria TSwift attempts to paint, one can do a little more research and find that revenue sharing transfers and their use has the league's attention and it has fined owners for its misuse. Loria has not been fined nor accused of doing so by anyone affiliated with the league. This despite what one can only assume is the team's finances being under scrutiny considering the conditional loan MLB made to the team and MLB's involvement in the push for a new stadium.

RFerry what you say is accurate in part but Loria is netting a profit off the Franchise to which he is quietly pocketing

No. The current ownership knows that because of baseball's unique economic landscape they're more profitable with a scorched-earth payroll than a competitive one. They don't operate in good faith, the fans don't show up. They don't care, they're making scads of money. They don't expect a turn-out, quite frankly they don't care.

 

TSwift what you are saying is horrifying me to hell. Please tell me you are joking. This is scandalous and MLB needs to step in, they have to rectify this somehow.

Don't worry, TSwift likes to present things that way. If you read closely and fact check him, you'll notice that the situation is not as drastic or absurd as he makes things out to be. Such as his post in this thread that suggests that Loria is pocketing tens of millions of dollars. A closer reading and a little research would suggest that much of the revenue sharing transfers have been spent to keep the team financially solvent and its operations active. For any one who doubts that or would rather believe in the version of Loria TSwift attempts to paint, one can do a little more research and find that revenue sharing transfers and their use has the league's attention and it has fined owners for its misuse. Loria has not been fined nor accused of doing so by anyone affiliated with the league. This despite what one can only assume is the team's finances being under scrutiny considering the conditional loan MLB made to the team and MLB's involvement in the push for a new stadium.

 

Right, that's why Forbes presented the Marlins with a slight profit. I love fact checking, so that way I'm more accurate in my stance than you are in believing Loria's losing $20 million.

 

Oh, and no team has been fined, but the Pirates, Marlins and Devil Rays all draw the league's ire.

From my understanding the Revenue Sharing from MLB is actually going right to Loria's pocket and not being put into operations and many in the League are postal about it

Thanks for the explainations RFerry and TSwift, and also EddieAlmonte. Where can I read some of the "fact checking" articles ? Is there an archive ? I'd like to know more about this, because it does seem that there is something rotten about Loria if any of this is true.

 

Also will revenue sharing be affected by the two NY teams being able to move monies to their stadiums instead of paying the luxury tax ? I thought I heard that about a year ago. How will this affect the Marlins ?

Thanks for the explainations RFerry and TSwift, and also EddieAlmonte. Where can I read some of the "fact checking" articles ? Is there an archive ? I'd like to know more about this, because it does seem that there is something rotten about Loria if any of this is true.

 

Also will revenue sharing be affected by the two NY teams being able to move monies to their stadiums instead of paying the luxury tax ? I thought I heard that about a year ago. How will this affect the Marlins ?

 

Here are some articles that give you an idea of the evolution of baseball's economic landscape, and the KGB esque guarding of the team's financial books.

 

Please do understand that any and all financial information from the teams is purely hypothetical, but these are businessmen, no good businessman (as they all are) would stay with an organization that continually hemorrhages cash.

 

Forbes Says MLB had profit, not loss, in '01

 

Forbes' 2005 valuation of teams: with projected operating income!

 

It's Good to be a Small Market Team, Marlins turn $43 million profit

 

Someone is lying? Is it Forbes or the owners?

 

And, also, there is a wonderful book by Andrew Zimbalist entitled May the Best Team Win that focuses specifically on baseball and the problems of public financing for such an overwhelmingly profitable industry.

No. The current ownership knows that because of baseball's unique economic landscape they're more profitable with a scorched-earth payroll than a competitive one. They don't operate in good faith, the fans don't show up. They don't care, they're making scads of money. They don't expect a turn-out, quite frankly they don't care.

 

TSwift what you are saying is horrifying me to hell. Please tell me you are joking. This is scandalous and MLB needs to step in, they have to rectify this somehow.

Don't worry, TSwift likes to present things that way. If you read closely and fact check him, you'll notice that the situation is not as drastic or absurd as he makes things out to be. Such as his post in this thread that suggests that Loria is pocketing tens of millions of dollars. A closer reading and a little research would suggest that much of the revenue sharing transfers have been spent to keep the team financially solvent and its operations active. For any one who doubts that or would rather believe in the version of Loria TSwift attempts to paint, one can do a little more research and find that revenue sharing transfers and their use has the league's attention and it has fined owners for its misuse. Loria has not been fined nor accused of doing so by anyone affiliated with the league. This despite what one can only assume is the team's finances being under scrutiny considering the conditional loan MLB made to the team and MLB's involvement in the push for a new stadium.

 

Right, that's why Forbes presented the Marlins with a slight profit. I love fact checking, so that way I'm more accurate in my stance than you are in believing Loria's losing $20 million.

 

Oh, and no team has been fined, but the Pirates, Marlins and Devil Rays all draw the league's ire.

That's because Forbes includes revenue sharing transfers in their figures. Thus, the Marlins aren't profiting from their operations. The league is keeping the Marlins afloat.

 

The Pirates were fined for what you claim the Marlins were doing. Some people involved in baseball have said that the Marlins and Devil Rays' small MLB payrolls blight the game, but in no way suggested they were using their revenue sharing transfers for unintended purposes.

No. The current ownership knows that because of baseball's unique economic landscape they're more profitable with a scorched-earth payroll than a competitive one. They don't operate in good faith, the fans don't show up. They don't care, they're making scads of money. They don't expect a turn-out, quite frankly they don't care.

 

TSwift what you are saying is horrifying me to hell. Please tell me you are joking. This is scandalous and MLB needs to step in, they have to rectify this somehow.

Don't worry, TSwift likes to present things that way. If you read closely and fact check him, you'll notice that the situation is not as drastic or absurd as he makes things out to be. Such as his post in this thread that suggests that Loria is pocketing tens of millions of dollars. A closer reading and a little research would suggest that much of the revenue sharing transfers have been spent to keep the team financially solvent and its operations active. For any one who doubts that or would rather believe in the version of Loria TSwift attempts to paint, one can do a little more research and find that revenue sharing transfers and their use has the league's attention and it has fined owners for its misuse. Loria has not been fined nor accused of doing so by anyone affiliated with the league. This despite what one can only assume is the team's finances being under scrutiny considering the conditional loan MLB made to the team and MLB's involvement in the push for a new stadium.

 

Right, that's why Forbes presented the Marlins with a slight profit. I love fact checking, so that way I'm more accurate in my stance than you are in believing Loria's losing $20 million.

 

Oh, and no team has been fined, but the Pirates, Marlins and Devil Rays all draw the league's ire.

That's because Forbes includes revenue sharing transfers in their figures. Thus, the Marlins aren't profiting from their operations. The league is keeping the Marlins afloat.

 

The Pirates were fined for what you claim the Marlins were doing. Some people involved in baseball have said that the Marlins and Devil Rays' small MLB payrolls blight the game, but in no way suggested they were using their revenue sharing transfers for unintended purposes.

 

Money in the pocket is money in the pocket. Want to split hairs over how it got there, peachy, but it's still going there, and there's no economic model really applicable to MLB because of it's anti-trust status, closed books and overwhelmingly socialist approach in many aspects.

 

And, also, be sure to see above, big boy.

But his point remains, and it is still valid one. The Marlins cannot sustain themselves if MLB took the revenue sharing check away.

 

Revenue sharing has bought the Marlins a few extra years in terms of a) staying in South Fla or B) still being a ML franchise.

 

Who knows how things might have turned out if the Luxury Tax hadn't been implemented.

 

Who knows how things might have turned out if John Henry had been given a RS check every year. He would have probably still owned the club.

Try the business of baseball beat, starting with the late Doug Pappas (http://roadsidephotos.sabr.org/baseball/index.htm), bizofbaseball.com, and related articles at Hardball Times, Baseball Prospectus, Forbes and ESPN.

 

 

Try not to get revenue sharing and luxury tax confused. Revenue sharing is the distribution of local revenues by all 30 teams. It is meant to balance the advantages some teams have in some markets. Every one pays in. The bottom half of the league in league revenues collects a net-positive amount with the lowest teams (i.e, the Marlins) earning much.

Luxury tax is a penalty imposed upon teams that spend over a set amount. These penalties go to fund league operations.

One of the criticisms of revenue sharing is that many local revenues can be shielded through various loopholes. I believe the case you're stating is the provision that allows teams to shield some local revenue from investing in stadium improvements. Over the next couple of years, a lot of the money the Yankees make will make it into the hands of construction firms building their stadium rather than the Marlins and A's.

No. The current ownership knows that because of baseball's unique economic landscape they're more profitable with a scorched-earth payroll than a competitive one. They don't operate in good faith, the fans don't show up. They don't care, they're making scads of money. They don't expect a turn-out, quite frankly they don't care.

 

TSwift what you are saying is horrifying me to hell. Please tell me you are joking. This is scandalous and MLB needs to step in, they have to rectify this somehow.

Don't worry, TSwift likes to present things that way. If you read closely and fact check him, you'll notice that the situation is not as drastic or absurd as he makes things out to be. Such as his post in this thread that suggests that Loria is pocketing tens of millions of dollars. A closer reading and a little research would suggest that much of the revenue sharing transfers have been spent to keep the team financially solvent and its operations active. For any one who doubts that or would rather believe in the version of Loria TSwift attempts to paint, one can do a little more research and find that revenue sharing transfers and their use has the league's attention and it has fined owners for its misuse. Loria has not been fined nor accused of doing so by anyone affiliated with the league. This despite what one can only assume is the team's finances being under scrutiny considering the conditional loan MLB made to the team and MLB's involvement in the push for a new stadium.

 

Right, that's why Forbes presented the Marlins with a slight profit. I love fact checking, so that way I'm more accurate in my stance than you are in believing Loria's losing $20 million.

 

Oh, and no team has been fined, but the Pirates, Marlins and Devil Rays all draw the league's ire.

That's because Forbes includes revenue sharing transfers in their figures. Thus, the Marlins aren't profiting from their operations. The league is keeping the Marlins afloat.

 

The Pirates were fined for what you claim the Marlins were doing. Some people involved in baseball have said that the Marlins and Devil Rays' small MLB payrolls blight the game, but in no way suggested they were using their revenue sharing transfers for unintended purposes.

 

Money in the pocket is money in the pocket. Want to split hairs over how it got there, peachy, but it's still going there, and there's no economic model really applicable to MLB because of it's anti-trust status, closed books and overwhelmingly socialist approach in many aspects.

 

And, also, be sure to see above, big boy.

Money in the pocket is money in the pocket, but it's not tens of millions in Loria's pocket. It's millions of dollars reinvested back into the club for one of the many intended purposes (i.e, minor league coaching, training facilities, field improvements, and a laundry list to go along with MLB payroll) of revenue sharing as dictated by MLB and its 30 owners and without grievance from the MLBPA.

 

And I'll split hairs all day if someone wants to contend that the Marlins are profitable by themselves. That by somehow the Marlins adds to gain when traded away player X, when, in fact, they merely lose a little bit less.

 

Socialist approach? HAHA. You've barely scratched the surface. A socialist organization works together for the benefit of all. The history, recent or otherwise, does not suggest that MLB works together or for the benefit of all. There are, however, select figures, such as Reinsdorf and Selig, that aim to level the playing field while undercutting the MLBPA's power. For a funny story, go research how MLB.com was initially started.

it would have been nice if Loria had taken some of his massived profits and locked up Miggy and Hanley long term , which in the long term would save him money that is of course if he has any intentions of keeping either which i doubt he does. I am sure some will continue to praise the front office's approach of trading off the teams talent after year 5 no doubt this is an effective biz approach we pay less per win than the yankees , of course we also win 25-30 games less than they do but hey who cares as long as the ownership turns a huge profit

I expect a repeat of the build to compete, sell off the stars for parts cycle. Hopefully that's get us a championship every 6-9 years.

But his point remains, and it is still valid one. The Marlins cannot sustain themselves if MLB took the revenue sharing check away.

 

Revenue sharing has bought the Marlins a few extra years in terms of a) staying in South Fla or B) still being a ML franchise.

No, I think it just gives Loria the ability to own the team. Otherwise I don't think he would be so outspoken in his refusal to sell the team.

 

There is a difference.

 

Yeah that's basically my stance.

 

As baseball's economic landscape changed, so to did everything that goes along with it. "Less wealthy" owners could hang around with the big boys. Who knows, if revenue sharing didn't exist, maybe Cisneros would own a Miami franchise.

 

There are a million what ifs.

No. The current ownership knows that because of baseball's unique economic landscape they're more profitable with a scorched-earth payroll than a competitive one. They don't operate in good faith, the fans don't show up. They don't care, they're making scads of money. They don't expect a turn-out, quite frankly they don't care.

 

TSwift what you are saying is horrifying me to hell. Please tell me you are joking. This is scandalous and MLB needs to step in, they have to rectify this somehow.

Don't worry, TSwift likes to present things that way. If you read closely and fact check him, you'll notice that the situation is not as drastic or absurd as he makes things out to be. Such as his post in this thread that suggests that Loria is pocketing tens of millions of dollars. A closer reading and a little research would suggest that much of the revenue sharing transfers have been spent to keep the team financially solvent and its operations active. For any one who doubts that or would rather believe in the version of Loria TSwift attempts to paint, one can do a little more research and find that revenue sharing transfers and their use has the league's attention and it has fined owners for its misuse. Loria has not been fined nor accused of doing so by anyone affiliated with the league. This despite what one can only assume is the team's finances being under scrutiny considering the conditional loan MLB made to the team and MLB's involvement in the push for a new stadium.

 

Right, that's why Forbes presented the Marlins with a slight profit. I love fact checking, so that way I'm more accurate in my stance than you are in believing Loria's losing $20 million.

 

Oh, and no team has been fined, but the Pirates, Marlins and Devil Rays all draw the league's ire.

That's because Forbes includes revenue sharing transfers in their figures. Thus, the Marlins aren't profiting from their operations. The league is keeping the Marlins afloat.

 

The Pirates were fined for what you claim the Marlins were doing. Some people involved in baseball have said that the Marlins and Devil Rays' small MLB payrolls blight the game, but in no way suggested they were using their revenue sharing transfers for unintended purposes.

 

Money in the pocket is money in the pocket. Want to split hairs over how it got there, peachy, but it's still going there, and there's no economic model really applicable to MLB because of it's anti-trust status, closed books and overwhelmingly socialist approach in many aspects.

 

And, also, be sure to see above, big boy.

Money in the pocket is money in the pocket, but it's not tens of millions in Loria's pocket. It's millions of dollars reinvested back into the club for one of the many intended purposes (i.e, minor league coaching, training facilities, field improvements, and a laundry list to go along with MLB payroll) of revenue sharing as dictated by MLB and its 30 owners and without grievance from the MLBPA.

 

And I'll split hairs all day if someone wants to contend that the Marlins are profitable by themselves. That by somehow the Marlins adds to gain when traded away player X, when, in fact, they merely lose a little bit less.

 

Socialist approach? HAHA. You've barely scratched the surface. A socialist organization works together for the benefit of all. The history, recent or otherwise, does not suggest that MLB works together or for the benefit of all. There are, however, select figures, such as Reinsdorf and Selig, that aim to level the playing field while undercutting the MLBPA's power. For a funny story, go research how MLB.com was initially started.

 

If you don't believe that MLB is working for the benefit of all 30 clubs, that somehow there isn't an intention for all clubs to remain viable, then you're a walking contradiction. On the one hand you say that MLB is the only thing that is keeping the Marlins afloat (and by extension all other small revenue and attendance teams) on the other you say that there is nothing to suggest that MLB is working for the benefit of all its owners.

 

And we've also been down this path many many many times before. Forbes factors in expected operating expenses to the team, even if you wish to contend that they neglect international scouting and domestic scouting (two areas we're grossly understaffed to begin with) there's nothing to suggest those figures'd be in the 10's of millions of dollars, which is what it'd take for Loria to have lost $20 million in '05 like he claimed, and it would have cost him $43 million last season, since that's what Forbes claimed Loria walked away with. Me, I'm still looking for Rick Porcello...

No. The current ownership knows that because of baseball's unique economic landscape they're more profitable with a scorched-earth payroll than a competitive one. They don't operate in good faith, the fans don't show up. They don't care, they're making scads of money. They don't expect a turn-out, quite frankly they don't care.

 

TSwift what you are saying is horrifying me to hell. Please tell me you are joking. This is scandalous and MLB needs to step in, they have to rectify this somehow.

 

No, I'm not. Major League Baseball does a thing called 'revenue sharing.' Revenue sharing is basically organized socialism in terms of sports economics.

 

The teams that are most profitable "pay into" the system X amount of dollars a season, based on their financial solvency. Teams that have payroll that exceeds the luxury tax threshold pay a tax on that excess payroll, dependent upon how high they exceed it, and how long they have been over the threshold. All that money goes into a big pot. That pot is then paid out to the teams that are not financially solvent, based upon need. The Marlins are in the top-3 teams in terms of revenue sharing payout. They receive in excess of $30 million annually from MLB. That's why they're profitable. It's not as if this is some grand scheme, it's simply pocketing money that should be spent on the team.

 

 

In other words it's welfare for poorer teams! I think MLB should make them spend that money, or make them refund it!

it would have been nice if Loria had taken some of his massived profits and locked up Miggy and Hanley long term , which in the long term would save him money that is of course if he has any intentions of keeping either which i doubt he does. I am sure some will continue to praise the front office's approach of trading off the teams talent after year 5 no doubt this is an effective biz approach we pay less per win than the yankees , of course we also win 25-30 games less than they do but hey who cares as long as the ownership turns a huge profit

There will be no long-term deals of any type untill a stadium deal is reached. BTW The Marlins are operating with a profit before the Revenues Sharing check is dropped in the mail

Anyone who believes someone on this board who claims he or she knows that ownership is pillaging this franchise, pocketing tons of dough, or this franchise is wildly profitable while holding back the team from contending, should have their heads examined.

 

The Marlins position (and I'm talking about the last two years under the current ownership) is they are running a revenue neutral organization after losing tens of millions of dollars from 2002-2005 (let's remember they spent $130 million between 2004 and 2005 JUST on onfield payroll), and there is not a single person on this board who has a clue nevermind a fact to prove them wrong.

 

Forbes is guesses piled on top of more guesses, compounding each year because they refuse to adjust their formulas to keep up with the changes in the game for fear that they would no longer be able to compare year to year as they do. Zimbalist's credibility went out with platform shoes.

 

And wouldn't you think by now some enterprising reporter would have exposed Loria and company if they were lying?

 

Some whistleblower wouldn't have come forward because they didn't like the size of their Christmas bonus?

 

These kinds of things require a huge conspiracy. A huge conspiracy of silence.

 

Of lawyers, accountants, of CPAs, (all with their good names and careers on the line not to mention things like disbarment, jail time, etc.) willing employees in numerous departments from bookeeping to dispersements, minority partners, banks, the county, the bond underwriting community, the city, their minor league affiliates and all their employees, the list is literally endless yet not one person has stepped forward to say that the Marlins are being run any way other than the way they claim it is.

 

Certainly if the minority partners (who at best could be called "unfriendly") even suspected Loria and others were colluding against their best interests (and "Loria is putting the money in his pocket" would run counter to their best interests to be sure) they wouldn't remain silent, not after the way they wound up minority partners here in the first place. They'd have forensic accountants up Loria's a**hole every day of the week. They'd be back in court or being quoted in every newspaper in the country.

 

Yet none of that happens.

 

All this poison falls apart under the weight of scrutiny and the single undeniable truth - conspiracies never work.

 

Someone always gets bent out of shape and spills the beans. Every single f***ing time. And the reason you haven't heard about it is because it isn't happening. For some here there is no smear too great, no lie too big, no venom too voluminous to spread because they aren't fans, they are provocateurs masquerading as fans.

 

So before you listen to any more of this bulls*** being spread ask yourselves why no one has ever pointed a finger.

 

Why a scumbag like Joe Ariolla didn't spill the beans (the city and the county intimately understand the Marlins financial situation and have for years) when he was trying to force Loria to sell out for pennies on the dollar to a foreign national who just happened to be a big political contributor. All he had to do was slip it to any one of a number of reporters at the Herald and Loria would have been up sh*t creek without a paddle, and run out of town to boot.

 

Or maybe you think the Herald and the Sun-Sentinel and the Palm Beach Post are in on it too?

 

Don't you think Huizenga and company who are closest to what's happening in their stadium would have used even a hint of malfeasance to destroy the franchise once and for all and be rid of baseball and the threat it poses as a legitimate alternative for hundreds of millions if not billions of sports entertainment dollars if the Marlins are successful in getting their own venue? Nevermind the fact that Wayne's personal "Mainfest Destiny" is to prove himself right that baseball won't work in this market?

 

It becomes like a lynch mob here sometimes with everyone wanting to be the first guy to throw that noose over the tree branch... "I hear he's stealing a million a year"..."no, no it's ten million a year he's putting in his pocket"..."No it's $30 million a year they're making".

 

This is a limited partnership If this franchise made $30 million last season don't you think the limited partners would be screaming for their piece?

 

Does anyone stop and think how hard it is to steal (pocket, divert to your own purposes, whatever word or phrase you want to use) a million dollars, nevermind $30 million a year. You really think Bud Selig walks up to some bookkeeper in the offices of Major League Baseball and says "Oh by the way, make out that $30 million revenue sharing (or Luxury Tax) check for the Marlins in the name of Jeffrey Loria c/o account # 7492e23hg8 at the First Bank of the Grand Caymans?

 

Think. Use the brains God gave you. You're all smarter than that to be manipulated by these haters and rumor mongerers.

 

You can argue with the way the franchise is run, you can argue about how player personnel decisions are made, there's lots to be unhappy about after a season like this, but don't think for a minute this franchise is awash in dough or the owner is a thief because there is not a shred of evidence to conclude that. Too many people with their own agendas want this franchise to fail without something getting out, and to this moment not a word to the contrary has been spoken.

 

The reason MLB supports what's going on with the franchise is because Loria isn't amassing $30 million a year as some would have you believe. Clearly they believe in this market, they have enough confidence in the owner to not fine him as they did the Pirates or throw him out as they've done with other owners before.

 

And it isn't about rich vs poor owners because the way the math works in baseball there is plenty to go around and more coming. (Wait until you have a 24 hour MLB cable channel next year (I believe it's '08) and then watch the money really start pouring in) Or the notion that a richer owner would be willing to lose tens of millions a year in support of the team as if millionaires like losing money anymore than the rest of us do. Unless you have some gazillionaire out on Dan Marino Blvd handing out $20 bills to everyone attending the game every night accept the fact that without corporate clients and the casual fan having abandoned a wretched Dolphin Stadium experience, nothing changes until cashflow changes and that means a new venue.

 

The economics of the stadium drives everything. Frankly we're lucky we still have a franchise here. Thank God no one has an empty stadium in a major market ready for occupancy or we'd be screwed

 

But back to the subject at hand, this belief that the team is awash with dough or worse as some think the owner is pocketing it for himself.

 

The facts speak for themselves. There is no conspiracy of silence allowing those things to be true because there's nothing to conspire about.

Thanks everyone for all the info. Its a lot to take in, and I may not get to all the articles for a day or two.

 

I guess the main points in this thread are, that we are in trouble as a franchise, and will be as long as Loria is the owner. Well isn't that sweet :banghead

One other question......does the fact that the team has no big contracts make the team worth less, if and win Loria does sell the team ? Does Loria own the stadium when its built ?

The stadium will be the property of the county and the marlins will have to pledge the franchise against their contractural thirty years of rent due.

 

It will be hard to sell the team with that encumberance on it.

I have to agree that revenue sharing is the only reason that an owner with very limited cash like Loria can own an MLB franchise.

 

The problem with the FO's strategy of keeping the team in the black is that it is going to continue to aliennate the remaining fan base, and make it a waste of time to build a new stadium.

 

If they were concerned about fixing the continuing problems with the lack of fans showing up, then they would put some more money in this team. Relying on sophomore pitchers has badly damaged our pitching staff for the next 1-2 years. Already Sanchez and Johnson, two of our best, are gone for all of 2008. Then you have D-Train pitching poorly, and our other starters like Olsen having awful years. Not to mention the problems with the defense.

 

I'm not exactly optimistic when our starters are averaging an ERA in the mid 5's, and with a week left in the season, we don't have a single pitcher with double-digit wins.

 

I certainly never would have guessed going into this season that our bullpen would be more reliable than our starting pitching, that's for sure. Their ERAs are in the mid-3's among our relievers with the most innings. I would have to think that Justin Miller and Kevin Gregg are likely out the door soon. I know Miller will be available, although Gregg might still be under contract. I'm not sure.

greg is up for arbitration which could make him out the door with all the saves hes racked up this season