October 10, 200718 yr Only a dope wouldn't think Bonds would benefit the Marlins. High OBP.....check. Likely increase in attendance (even if small).....check. Protection for Cabs.....check. I could go on and on, but there really isn't a need. The positives FAR outweigh the negatives. no defense and no speed outweigh his positives...and oh yeah...its freakin barry bonds...the guy is a cancer :lol Reggie Abercrombie has all the speed in the world. Then why can't he run the bases well? Barry run's the bases very well and thats all thats important. His defense isn't so bad that his run production won't outweigh any negatives incurred. Logic is a great tool. And I don't like Barry Bonds as a person either but I'd love him to be our left fielder next year. i never said speed=good baserunning ability...so yeah...logic is a great tool if YOU actually use it...and the marlins should have no interest in him...that is logic put to work Because speed + defense > OPS? no...because speed + defense generally= october baseball So OPS does not equal "october baseball" ? i didnt say that...but offense really isnt our problem is it? and what will barry be doing here? providing a slick glove? a great arm? stolen bases? is his presence going to bring baseball fans from all over to watch him? the answer to these questions are all a big, fat, resounding NO So then OPS doesn't equal October baseball? Or slick glove does? how did it do for us this year? how has it done for the texas rangers in their history? how about the red sox for 80 odd years before they found more than one guy in their rotation worth a damn? better defense and better speed generally mean better success...back to the point...IMO, the only place barry could play for us is first base...or else you are making an already piss poor outfield defense even slower and vastly worse off
October 10, 200718 yr Only a dope wouldn't think Bonds would benefit the Marlins. High OBP.....check. Likely increase in attendance (even if small).....check. Protection for Cabs.....check. I could go on and on, but there really isn't a need. The positives FAR outweigh the negatives. no defense and no speed outweigh his positives...and oh yeah...its freakin barry bonds...the guy is a cancer :lol Reggie Abercrombie has all the speed in the world. Then why can't he run the bases well? Barry run's the bases very well and thats all thats important. His defense isn't so bad that his run production won't outweigh any negatives incurred. Logic is a great tool. And I don't like Barry Bonds as a person either but I'd love him to be our left fielder next year. i never said speed=good baserunning ability...so yeah...logic is a great tool if YOU actually use it...and the marlins should have no interest in him...that is logic put to work Because speed + defense > OPS? no...because speed + defense generally= october baseball So OPS does not equal "october baseball" ? i didnt say that...but offense really isnt our problem is it? and what will barry be doing here? providing a slick glove? a great arm? stolen bases? is his presence going to bring baseball fans from all over to watch him? the answer to these questions are all a big, fat, resounding NO So then OPS doesn't equal October baseball? Or slick glove does? how did it do for us this year? how has it done for the texas rangers in their history? how about the red sox for 80 odd years before they found more than one guy in their rotation worth a damn? better defense and better speed generally mean better success...back to the point...IMO, the only place barry could play for us is first base...or else you are making an already piss poor outfield defense even slower and vastly worse off So speed + defense > OPS?
October 10, 200718 yr So speed + defense > OPS? duh. The faster you are, the more runs you score. Barry Bonds can't score from third on a sac fly. Scott Posednik can.
October 10, 200718 yr So speed + defense > OPS? duh. The faster you are, the more runs you score. Barry Bonds can't score from third on a sac fly. Scott Posednik can. :notworthy Thanks for clearing that up.
October 10, 200718 yr So speed + defense > OPS? this isnt a greater/less than discussion...this is about one barry lamar bonds who has neither speed, nor defense anymore...and when those are taken completely out of the equation, then i dont want that player...period
October 10, 200718 yr this isnt a greater/less than discussion...this is about one barry lamar bonds who has neither speed, nor defense anymore...and when those are taken completely out of the equation, then i dont want that player...period This is such a stupid conversation to even debate in, but since you just brought up the Red Sox, what about Manny Ramirez? You wouldn't want him on the Marlins either I guess?
October 10, 200718 yr this isnt a greater/less than discussion...this is about one barry lamar bonds who has neither speed, nor defense anymore...and when those are taken completely out of the equation, then i dont want that player...period This is such a stupid conversation to even debate in, but since you just brought up the Red Sox, what about Manny Ramirez? You wouldn't want him on the Marlins either I guess? manny isnt on the wrong side of 40 and still plays pretty solid defense for all the sh*t he gets...id take manny in less than a second...but id rather add to our speed and defense and be a much more complete team...
October 10, 200718 yr this isnt a greater/less than discussion...this is about one barry lamar bonds who has neither speed, nor defense anymore...and when those are taken completely out of the equation, then i dont want that player...period So since Barry has neither speed nor defense, you don't care about his OPS. Ergo speed + defense > OPS?
October 10, 200718 yr this isnt a greater/less than discussion...this is about one barry lamar bonds who has neither speed, nor defense anymore...and when those are taken completely out of the equation, then i dont want that player...period So since Barry has neither speed nor defense, you don't care about his OPS. Ergo speed + defense > OPS? no, i dont...not in the least bit...because the OPS of a player who has no desire to play for the marlins is completely irrelevant to me...does that satisfy your question? or should i point out how he will be a DH next year for an american league team...or maybe...just maybe...we can talk about players who might actually help our team...
October 10, 200718 yr 1st base is the only way he can play in the NL.. LF and Bonds shouldn't be next to one another ever again I'd bet good money on Anaheim
October 10, 200718 yr I really don't understand the defense areguement when we have JOSH WILLINGHAM out there. Barry Bonds is likely an upgrade.
October 10, 200718 yr this isnt a greater/less than discussion...this is about one barry lamar bonds who has neither speed, nor defense anymore...and when those are taken completely out of the equation, then i dont want that player...period So since Barry has neither speed nor defense, you don't care about his OPS. Ergo speed + defense > OPS? no, i dont...not in the least bit...because the OPS of a player who has no desire to play for the marlins is completely irrelevant to me...does that satisfy your question? or should i point out how he will be a DH next year for an american league team...or maybe...just maybe...we can talk about players who might actually help our team... So... Speed + defense > OPS Because in both the AL and NL in 2007, the top two teams in terms of team OPS made the playoffs. That can't be said for the top two teams in both leagues in terms of fielding percentage.
October 10, 200718 yr I really don't understand the defense areguement when we have JOSH WILLINGHAM out there. Barry Bonds is likely an upgrade. :lol
October 10, 200718 yr 1st base is the only way he can play in the NL.. LF and Bonds shouldn't be next to one another ever again I'd bet good money on Anaheim It's probably easier to hide a bad glove in left-field than it is at an infield position, especially one where there's no previous experience. Manny's made his living as a left-fielder.
October 10, 200718 yr Theres bad and theres physically unable. I don't think people realize how slow and how bad his defense is
October 10, 200718 yr I really don't understand the defense areguement when we have JOSH WILLINGHAM out there. Barry Bonds is likely an upgrade. :lol By every fielding metric, Barry Bonds >= Josh Willingham. There are several worse fielders out there that don't get the flack Barry does. Willingham has almost no range. He has the stronger arm. But no range.
October 10, 200718 yr Theres bad and theres physically unable. I don't think people realize how slow and how bad his defense is He's not that slow (faster than others in LF), and his defense isn't very bad.
October 10, 200718 yr Have you actually seen him play? Or are you thinking of bonds from 10 years ago? I'm not looking at stats, I'm using common sense. The guy is physically unable to play the position and its painful to watch.. Seriously, get ready to see routine singles turned in to standup doubles on a weekly basis, if hes even playing. Don't get me wrong, his LH bat behind cabrera would be nice, but you're on crack if you would take Bonds' defense ahead of ANY other LF in baseball.
October 10, 200718 yr this isnt a greater/less than discussion...this is about one barry lamar bonds who has neither speed, nor defense anymore...and when those are taken completely out of the equation, then i dont want that player...period So since Barry has neither speed nor defense, you don't care about his OPS. Ergo speed + defense > OPS? no, i dont...not in the least bit...because the OPS of a player who has no desire to play for the marlins is completely irrelevant to me...does that satisfy your question? or should i point out how he will be a DH next year for an american league team...or maybe...just maybe...we can talk about players who might actually help our team... So... Speed + defense > OPS Because in both the AL and NL in 2007, the top two teams in terms of team OPS made the playoffs. That can't be said for the top two teams in both leagues in terms of fielding percentage. you forgot about the importance of speed in your argument...but let me ask you this, does having a piss poor defensive team give you a better or worse shot at making the playoffs? so like i was saying having BARRY BONDS, DOES NOT MAKE US A BETTER TEAM...believe it or not swifty, there is more to baseball than just offense
October 10, 200718 yr this isnt a greater/less than discussion...this is about one barry lamar bonds who has neither speed, nor defense anymore...and when those are taken completely out of the equation, then i dont want that player...period So since Barry has neither speed nor defense, you don't care about his OPS. Ergo speed + defense > OPS? no, i dont...not in the least bit...because the OPS of a player who has no desire to play for the marlins is completely irrelevant to me...does that satisfy your question? or should i point out how he will be a DH next year for an american league team...or maybe...just maybe...we can talk about players who might actually help our team... So... Speed + defense > OPS Because in both the AL and NL in 2007, the top two teams in terms of team OPS made the playoffs. That can't be said for the top two teams in both leagues in terms of fielding percentage. you forgot about the importance of speed in your argument...but let me ask you this, does having a piss poor defensive team give you a better or worse shot at making the playoffs? so like i was saying having BARRY BONDS, DOES NOT MAKE US A BETTER TEAM...believe it or not swifty, there is more to baseball than just offense Like speed?
October 10, 200718 yr Yes, I have watched him play, and yes, he isn't that slow. No, he isn't the bonds from 10 years ago. No, he isn't very fast. I'm not saying he's fast. I'm not saying he's a good fielder. I'm saying that he's better than the worse, and what we currently have out there is one of the worst. Dunn, Burrell. Both of them are a LOT slower and a lot worse of fielders. And their bat more than makes up for their defense. And Bonds has better offense and defense (though won't play 162 games). Would you be mad if we got Dunn or Burrell to play LF? Serious question. and making a bigger list Manny Carlos Lee Jay Payton Hammer Luiz Gonzalez Ibanez (about equal to Bonds actually) And Matsui is slower but a good fielder. I see nobody calling for their heads never to be in the OF again. You're really overstating how slow Bonds is.
October 10, 200718 yr this isnt a greater/less than discussion...this is about one barry lamar bonds who has neither speed, nor defense anymore...and when those are taken completely out of the equation, then i dont want that player...period So since Barry has neither speed nor defense, you don't care about his OPS. Ergo speed + defense > OPS? no, i dont...not in the least bit...because the OPS of a player who has no desire to play for the marlins is completely irrelevant to me...does that satisfy your question? or should i point out how he will be a DH next year for an american league team...or maybe...just maybe...we can talk about players who might actually help our team... So... Speed + defense > OPS Because in both the AL and NL in 2007, the top two teams in terms of team OPS made the playoffs. That can't be said for the top two teams in both leagues in terms of fielding percentage. you forgot about the importance of speed in your argument...but let me ask you this, does having a piss poor defensive team give you a better or worse shot at making the playoffs? so like i was saying having BARRY BONDS, DOES NOT MAKE US A BETTER TEAM...believe it or not swifty, there is more to baseball than just offense Like speed? other than hanley...we have a huge gap in anyone that can run, we had 137 errors which lead the league by far, our pitching was worst or 2nd worst in all major categories....................................................and yet you want to add to our offense? add to our strength? see this is like your argument of why the fins should trade ronnie brown so they can get the next golden god in mcfadden...but here is the thing...adding to strengths while ignoring completely your weaknesses makes you brian cashman...and last time i checked...the marlins dont have his pockets from which to pull from...so...oh i dont know...just an idea...why dont we get a couple guys who are a little more fleet of foot, find a good, capable catcher...add to the pitching a little...and we can call it a good offseason without slow, geezers, with creaky knees and bad attitudes...i swear, next your going to tell me the marlins should go after johnny bench to catch and willie mays in center...hey they had good OPS numbers too! and they would bring in more of a crowd!
October 10, 200718 yr Theres bad and theres physically unable. I don't think people realize how slow and how bad his defense is For someone so slow and bad, his range factor was very close to the league average this year. While I don't think you will get an argument that his fielding is anything special at this point, his offense more than makes up for him being an average (or even slightly below) fielder at this point. You said you are using common sense as your basis, and not statistics, however, statistics show that there really isn't a common sense argument that can be made to say based on his previous (recent) performance, Bond's wouldn't be an upgrade to this team.
October 10, 200718 yr this isnt a greater/less than discussion...this is about one barry lamar bonds who has neither speed, nor defense anymore...and when those are taken completely out of the equation, then i dont want that player...period So since Barry has neither speed nor defense, you don't care about his OPS. Ergo speed + defense > OPS? no, i dont...not in the least bit...because the OPS of a player who has no desire to play for the marlins is completely irrelevant to me...does that satisfy your question? or should i point out how he will be a DH next year for an american league team...or maybe...just maybe...we can talk about players who might actually help our team... So... Speed + defense > OPS Because in both the AL and NL in 2007, the top two teams in terms of team OPS made the playoffs. That can't be said for the top two teams in both leagues in terms of fielding percentage. you forgot about the importance of speed in your argument...but let me ask you this, does having a piss poor defensive team give you a better or worse shot at making the playoffs? so like i was saying having BARRY BONDS, DOES NOT MAKE US A BETTER TEAM...believe it or not swifty, there is more to baseball than just offense Like speed? other than hanley...we have a huge gap in anyone that can run, we had 137 errors which lead the league by far, our pitching was worst or 2nd worst in all major categories....................................................and yet you want to add to our offense? add to our strength? see this is like your argument of why the fins should trade ronnie brown so they can get the next golden god in mcfadden...but here is the thing...adding to strengths while ignoring completely your weaknesses makes you brian cashman...and last time i checked...the marlins dont have his pockets from which to pull from...so...oh i dont know...just an idea...why dont we get a couple guys who are a little more fleet of foot, find a good, capable catcher...add to the pitching a little...and we can call it a good offseason without slow, geezers, with creaky knees and bad attitudes...i swear, next your going to tell me the marlins should go after johnny bench to catch and willie mays in center...hey they had good OPS numbers too! and they would bring in more of a crowd! So much here, where to start. Hermida, Uggla, De Aza, Olivo, Ross, and Hanley all had above average speed last season. Just because they didn't steal bases doesn't mean they are slow. Picking up a pitcher doesn't really work in our favor, as we've got so many guys who will be available next year or the year after. There is no single pitcher who will take a one year contract for what Bonds is making that will have as big an impact. Bonds > Willingham in left. Putting Bonds at LF and WIllingham at 1B arguably improves our defense. What pitchers should we add? Who is out there that will perform better than what we have that won't cost an arm and a leg. Pitching is expensive. If you can give me a list of the pitchers we should be getting this year maybe you'll convince me.
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