Another Loria Bombshell

[Guest FlummoxedLummox]

I've refrained from criticizing Loria for the Yale contribution, and I hate him as much as anyone. I concede that what a man does with his private finances is his own business. Even though my hunch tells me that he made the donation using a windfall from his stake in the Marlins, there's just not enough evidence to suggest otherwise. He could very well have accounts full of funds that have nothing to do with the Marlins.

 

In my mind this is a separate issue from abusing revenue sharing, and I contend that he is doing that regardless of whether he donates the surplus to Yale or puts it in his vault so he can swim in a pool of gold coins. And that's the issue that rankles me as he backs out stadium deals and slashes the payroll. Who cares where he's spending it, when what matters is that he's not spending it, period.

[Guest Jack1]

The thing is...it may not have been $20 million....it may have been MORE!

[rferry]

The thing is...it may not have been $20 million....it may have been MORE!

It may have been 20 million dollars worth of dead babies!

[BeefWillingham]

The thing is...it may not have been $20 million....it may have been MORE!

It may have been 20 million dollars worth of dead babies!

 

rferry's best post ever.

[BroncoBob27]

I bet the other 29 owners loved being an unwilling partner in a gift to a yuppie factory.

 

Is it lonely up there on that tower?

 

Give Spikey a break. We all know that no other owner in any sport ever donates their personal $$$ to any charity or alma mater. Ours is the only one that dosen't send out limos to their fans each and every game day and then walks through the aisles tossing $20 bills to them.

I agree with most. I say the cheap prick ought to sell off all his paintings, take out 2nd and 3rd mortgages on his homes, and then spend all that capital on the Marlins so I can have better TV viewing. MLB needs to look into this. And the other owners need to band together and let Loria and company know that is exactly what they do and if he dosen't start acting accordingly they will revoke his ownership card. I hear the guy even stopped off and bought a Slurpee the other day. When will this self-indulgent spending ever stop??? My God, the humanity of it all.

[anotherrealfan]

I bet the other 29 owners loved being an unwilling partner in a gift to a yuppie factory.

 

Is it lonely up there on that tower?

 

Give Spikey a break. We all know that no other owner in any sport ever donates their personal $$$ to any charity or alma mater. Ours is the only one that dosen't send out limos to their fans each and every game day and then walks through the aisles tossing $20 bills to them.

I agree with most. I say the cheap prick ought to sell off all his paintings, take out 2nd and 3rd mortgages on his homes, and then spend all that capital on the Marlins so I can have better TV viewing. MLB needs to look into this. And the other owners need to band together and let Loria and company know that is exactly what they do and if he dosen't start acting accordingly they will revoke his ownership card. I hear the guy even stopped off and bought a Slurpee the other day. When will this self-indulgent spending ever stop??? My God, the humanity of it all.

Balance Bob, I think many of the rational folks here want a bit more balance to the model. Not spend everything and carry a $100 mill payroll and lose 40 mill. Me, I do not want to hear Samson say, as he has said just last week and two years ago, that even if there were 35,000 in the seats for every game, they would be doing the same thing. He basically offends every fan that actually does go to the games. "Come on out, spend money, buy tickets, pack the stadium and you know what, we don't care, we will still have a fire sale and trade off anyone of value". So those watching on TV can point to his comments.

Yes, strange that Samson is so honest given that he has the built in excuse of attendance. But then again, Samsom has a knack of speaking out of his rear end. While it is not fair to expect owner just to spend like the ORioles (wont use Yankees or Red Sox), it is not fair to not spend at all. I just cannot see how some people think that owner is 100% in the right on how he is running this team-no one is that much in the right. And I think, thank you for allowing my opinion, that he is far more wrong than right, given the belief of the amount of income he is receiving that was intended by mlb to be spent for payroll enhancement.

Happy holidays to you and yours.

[Admin]

I bet the other 29 owners loved being an unwilling partner in a gift to a yuppie factory.

 

Is it lonely up there on that tower?

 

Give Spikey a break. We all know that no other owner in any sport ever donates their personal $$$ to any charity or alma mater. Ours is the only one that dosen't send out limos to their fans each and every game day and then walks through the aisles tossing $20 bills to them.

I agree with most. I say the cheap prick ought to sell off all his paintings, take out 2nd and 3rd mortgages on his homes, and then spend all that capital on the Marlins so I can have better TV viewing. MLB needs to look into this. And the other owners need to band together and let Loria and company know that is exactly what they do and if he dosen't start acting accordingly they will revoke his ownership card. I hear the guy even stopped off and bought a Slurpee the other day. When will this self-indulgent spending ever stop??? My God, the humanity of it all.

 

The only problem with your post is the fact that Loria pockets the vast majority of the corporate wellfare MLB gives him...ergo it goes into his own personal finances...ergo while it could be indirect MLB effectively paid for an addition to Yale while the franchise the money should be going to recieves basically none of it.

 

Be self indulgent all you want, but use your own personal money to do so. Not money you have laundered from MLB.

[marlinshomerun]

The only problem with your post is the fact that Loria pockets the vast majority of the corporate wellfare MLB gives him...ergo it goes into his own personal finances...ergo while it could be indirect MLB effectively paid for an addition to Yale while the franchise the money should be going to recieves basically none of it.

 

Be self indulgent all you want, but use your own personal money to do so. Not money you have laundered from MLB.

 

This is exactly why most are pissed. He says on one hand he doesn't have money except for a bargain-basement team yet gives away money intended to keep the team from floundering.

 

No one here can adaquately explain away the millions he is getting in revenue sharing. The Tampa Bay team has basically the same attendance as the Marlins, yet still manages to spend consistantly $ 30 million +. If, as one here claims, baseball owners don't dip into their own personal finances to pay for the team, how can Tampa spend so much and the Marlins spend so little, and yet we are led to believe that the Marlins are only "breaking even".

 

The numbers just don't add up. Loria is pilfering the Marlins for money, and everyone here knows it. Whether or not they have the integrity to admit to it.

[orisha]

marlins2003,

 

that is fine and dandy. is his money, he gives it away to whoever he wants. it may have been 10 years ago, who knows, and frankly, who cares. but he's the owner of a professional team, what do you think are his obligations as owner of this franchise, and do you find it acceptable for him to run the team the way he does?

[Guest CrimsonCane]

This is exactly why most are pissed. He says on one hand he doesn't have money except for a bargain-basement team yet gives away money intended to keep the team from floundering.

 

No one here can adaquately explain away the millions he is getting in revenue sharing. The Tampa Bay team has basically the same attendance as the Marlins, yet still manages to spend consistantly $ 30 million +. If, as one here claims, baseball owners don't dip into their own personal finances to pay for the team, how can Tampa spend so much and the Marlins spend so little, and yet we are led to believe that the Marlins are only "breaking even".

 

The numbers just don't add up. Loria is pilfering the Marlins for money, and everyone here knows it. Whether or not they have the integrity to admit to it.

Not saying it explains everything, but the Devil Rays actually have their own stadium and arn't committed to an awful lease like the Marlins that confines their ability to make money.

 

Also, when Loria is saying that there isn't money for things like a higher payroll, he's not necessarily saying that he himself doesn't have that money to pay (obviously he does). He's saying that the Marlins organization doesn't have the money for a higher payroll. There is a difference between Loria's personal finances and the finances of the Marlins organization.

[marlinshomerun]

Not saying it explains everything, but the Devil Rays actually have their own stadium and arn't committed to an awful lease like the Marlins that confines their ability to make money.

 

Also, when Loria is saying that there isn't money for things like a higher payroll, he's not necessarily saying that he himself doesn't have that money to pay (obviously he does). He's saying that the Marlins organization doesn't have the money for a higher payroll. There is a difference between Loria's personal finances and the finances of the Marlins organization.

 

I don't know about that. I believe Loria is taking the Marlins surplus & using it on himself, in the form of (hyperinflated) "salary".

[Guest CrimsonCane]

Not saying it explains everything, but the Devil Rays actually have their own stadium and arn't committed to an awful lease like the Marlins that confines their ability to make money.

 

Also, when Loria is saying that there isn't money for things like a higher payroll, he's not necessarily saying that he himself doesn't have that money to pay (obviously he does). He's saying that the Marlins organization doesn't have the money for a higher payroll. There is a difference between Loria's personal finances and the finances of the Marlins organization.

 

I don't know about that. I believe Loria is taking the Marlins surplus & using it on himself, in the form of (hyperinflated) "salary".

That may very well be true. However, neither you nor I will actually know whether that's the case.

 

My only point (which is not a defense of Loria; donations to Yale are always indefensible IMO) was that you can't definitively prove that Loria is shortending the Marlins simply by virtue of the fact that he donated a large sum of money to his alma mater. That money could come from sources completely independent of his dealings with the Marlins. Also, Loria saying "The Marlins are cash-strapped" is not the same as Loria saying, "I'm cash-strapped."

 

That said, speculate all you want.

[marlinshomerun]

Not saying it explains everything, but the Devil Rays actually have their own stadium and arn't committed to an awful lease like the Marlins that confines their ability to make money.

 

Also, when Loria is saying that there isn't money for things like a higher payroll, he's not necessarily saying that he himself doesn't have that money to pay (obviously he does). He's saying that the Marlins organization doesn't have the money for a higher payroll. There is a difference between Loria's personal finances and the finances of the Marlins organization.

 

I don't know about that. I believe Loria is taking the Marlins surplus & using it on himself, in the form of (hyperinflated) "salary".

That may very well be true. However, neither you nor I will actually know whether that's the case.

 

My only point (which is not a defense of Loria; donations to Yale are always indefensible IMO) was that you can't definitively prove that Loria is shortending the Marlins simply by virtue of the fact that he donated a large sum of money to his alma mater. That money could come from sources completely independent of his dealings with the Marlins. Also, Loria saying "The Marlins are cash-strapped" is not the same as Loria saying, "I'm cash-strapped."

 

That said, speculate all you want.

 

Hence the reason I used the phrase " I believe".

[Guest CrimsonCane]

Hence the reason I used the phrase " I believe".

The tone of your first post was quite different from the second, implying that this was a matter of fact not speculation. My point was towards the first post.

 

For the sake of clarity,

POST 1:

This is exactly why most are pissed. He says on one hand he doesn't have money except for a bargain-basement team yet gives away money intended to keep the team from floundering.

No one here can adaquately explain away the millions he is getting in revenue sharing. The Tampa Bay team has basically the same attendance as the Marlins, yet still manages to spend consistantly $ 30 million +. If, as one here claims, baseball owners don't dip into their own personal finances to pay for the team, how can Tampa spend so much and the Marlins spend so little, and yet we are led to believe that the Marlins are only "breaking even".

 

The numbers just don't add up. Loria is pilfering the Marlins for money, and everyone here knows it. Whether or not they have the integrity to admit to it.

 

POST 2:

I don't know about that. I believe Loria is taking the Marlins surplus & using it on himself, in the form of (hyperinflated) "salary".

[anotherrealfan]

marlins2003,

 

that is fine and dandy. is his money, he gives it away to whoever he wants. it may have been 10 years ago, who knows, and frankly, who cares. but he's the owner of a professional team, what do you think are his obligations as owner of this franchise, and do you find it acceptable for him to run the team the way he does?

You didn't just ask 03 to explain his POV (again) ? Yes you did. Take cover. :lol

[Marlins2003]

I've come to the conclusion that six or seven of you represent the lunatic fringe of the hate Loria crowd and it's fruitless to argue/debate/whatever subjects about which you know nothing or where the word "truth" is too alien a concept for you all to understand. If you even had a cursory understanding of accounting, partnerships and that every professional sports franchise is audited by the IRS yearly you would understand why this mass hysteria is just that.

 

There is zero evidence anything you guys repeat day after day after day is true but go ahead, be my guest...continue.

 

And when you find out who it was on that grassy knoll who shot JFK post that too.

[anotherrealfan]

I've come to the conclusion that six or seven of you represent the lunatic fringe of the hate Loria crowd and it's fruitless to argue/debate/whatever subjects about which you know nothing or where the word "truth" is too alien a concept for you all to understand. If you even had a cursory understanding of accounting, partnerships and that every professional sports franchise is audited by the IRS yearly you would understand why this mass hysteria is just that.

 

There is zero evidence anything you guys repeat day after day after day is true but go ahead, be my guest...continue.

 

And when you find out who it was on that grassy knoll who shot JFK post that too.

Aww cmon, whether the IRS (nice of you to capitalize this,shows proper respect for our civil servants) audits the books or not has absolutely nothing, nothing to do with the position that owner is reaping profits that maybe he should be putting back into the organization. I have seen many taking shots at the lack of spending, how the organization is run etc, but I do not recall anyone saying (ok I will use his name) Loria is breaking any tax laws or failing to report income or taking inappropriate or illegal deductions. So, again, you formulate your words to have an impact but often they land like a feather on grass. He could still be a terrible owner to many, or the best owner in the world, but why would an IRS audit have anything to do with that-except it makes good window dressing.

[Admin]

I've come to the conclusion that six or seven of you represent the lunatic fringe of the hate Loria crowd and it's fruitless to argue/debate/whatever subjects about which you know nothing or where the word "truth" is too alien a concept for you all to understand. If you even had a cursory understanding of accounting, partnerships and that every professional sports franchise is audited by the IRS yearly you would understand why this mass hysteria is just that.

 

There is zero evidence anything you guys repeat day after day after day is true but go ahead, be my guest...continue.

 

And when you find out who it was on that grassy knoll who shot JFK post that too.

 

There are ways to hide $$.

 

A team raking in $60+ million before a ticket is sold having a $10 million payroll is fishy no matter what your personal beliefs are.

 

And its not just the fans who have this opinion of Loria. He has villified himself for blatant mismanagement of two franchises, the media hates him, and I doubt it is a stretch to say he is the most despised owner among every other owner and the MLB offices.

 

He isnt pulling his weight, and doesnt even attempt to.

[yankeefan21]

I will not speak to his personal finances however there are two inarguable facts:

 

1. Loria made the most money off of his team out of every owner in baseball

2. Loria spent the least amount of money on his team out of every owner in baseball

[Marlins2003]

My point was the books of the franchise are audited a number of times who are professionals. What you ignored is that this is a partnership, and as such Loria is referred to almost as slang as the "owner" in fact he is (and Prin will correct if I have my governance wrong) the Managing General Partner of a group of ten or eleven who are all owners. Because he has substantially more stock in the company he's the front man, but if you think the minority or limited partners don't get to see the books you'd be mistaken. I've been in private equity limited partnerships, and quarterly (summaries) and annually certified audits of the partnerships come like clockwork.

 

The point is you can't hide the stuff Spike is talking about and repeats almost daily. It's absurd.

[yankeefan21]

My point was the books of the franchise are audited a number of times who are professionals. What you ignored is that this is a partnership, and as such Loria is referred to almost as slang as the "owner" in fact he is (and Prin will correct if I have my governance wrong) the Managing General Partner of a group of ten or eleven who are all owners. Because he has substantially more stock in the company he's the front man, but if you think the minority or limited partners don't get to see the books you'd be mistaken. I've been in private equity limited partnerships, and quarterly (summaries) and annually certified audits of the partnerships come like clockwork.

 

The point is you can't hide the stuff Spike is talking about and repeats almost daily. It's absurd.

I will not argue your last point as that is open to interpretation.

 

With that said, I think most people on this board have at least a cursory understanding of how business works. We know that Loria isn't a sole owner any more than Steinbrenner is. With that said, the articles that point out Loria's profit are exactly that; LORIA's profit [not the profit generated by all Marlins ownership]. In light of that information, it is easy to understand why a Marlins fan would be upset by this information. Take a look at the team history and imagine how awesome the Marlins could be as a franchise. They could have started a dynasty with the players they have traded over the last 2 or 3 years alone.