maybe by 2014!!!

 

geez, they can always play in Ft Lauderdale stadium until its built. holds about 7000? a sell out every nite!!! yay!

 

LOL

Why is this guy such a douche cake? Stop acting stupid and take the loss like a man. Braman is stalling because he CAN'T win. I bet you he is pissing his pants and telling his lawyers to do whatever possible to delay the hearing to gather as much evidence and documents as possible. And I also bet his lawyers are telling him "But Norm, there is nothing. The city and county are sending us thousands of documents and we don't have documentation of our own. We have no goddamn case." To which Braman replies, "Well, do whatever you can to take these peasant Marlins fan and their sh*tty team down." Little does he know that as much of a sh*tty team he thinks the Marlins are he was owner of even a shittier team... the Philadelphia Eagles are pretty pathetic. Sorry Philly fans I am just more sympathetic to the Giants. And the fact that Braman was their owner doesn't make me like them much more.

 

I feel like this whole thing is personal now because Braman is not in it to win. Instead, what he is trying to do is stick it to each and everyone of us. If he was really interested in "doing something good" he would drop the case. He really has no chance. Instead, he is just delaying his loss, which will only hurt us and the Marlins. Because he is not going to accomplish anything he is going to make us and the Marlins organization not accomplish anything. Even though Jacobs may have won a-hole of the week I think this guy earns a-hole of the season.

Why is this guy such a douche cake? Stop acting stupid and take the loss like a man. Braman is stalling because he CAN'T win. I bet you he is pissing his pants and telling his lawyers to do whatever possible to delay the hearing to gather as much evidence and documents as possible. And I also bet his lawyers are telling him "But Norm, there is nothing. The city and county are sending us thousands of documents and we don't have documentation of our own. We have no goddamn case." To which Braman replies, "Well, do whatever you can to take these peasant Marlins fan and their sh*tty team down." Little does he know that as much of a sh*tty team he thinks the Marlins are he was owner of even a shittier team... the Philadelphia Eagles are pretty pathetic. Sorry Philly fans I am just more sympathetic to the Giants. And the fact that Braman was their owner doesn't make me like them much more.

 

I feel like this whole thing is personal now because Braman is not in it to win. Instead, what he is trying to do is stick it to each and everyone of us. If he was really interested in "doing something good" he would drop the case. He really has no chance. Instead, he is just delaying his loss, which will only hurt us and the Marlins. Because he is not going to accomplish anything he is going to make us and the Marlins organization not accomplish anything. Even though Jacobs may have won a-hole of the week I think this guy earns a-hole of the season.

 

He was one of the reasons the Eagles are pathetic. He had the best NFL defense in the early 90s, and they did not even win a playoff game. He was getting hate mail and death threats from Eagles fans by the time he sold that team. He is a carpet bagger and total POS.

Why is this guy such a douche cake? Stop acting stupid and take the loss like a man. Braman is stalling because he CAN'T win. I bet you he is pissing his pants and telling his lawyers to do whatever possible to delay the hearing to gather as much evidence and documents as possible. And I also bet his lawyers are telling him "But Norm, there is nothing. The city and county are sending us thousands of documents and we don't have documentation of our own. We have no goddamn case." To which Braman replies, "Well, do whatever you can to take these peasant Marlins fan and their sh*tty team down." Little does he know that as much of a sh*tty team he thinks the Marlins are he was owner of even a shittier team... the Philadelphia Eagles are pretty pathetic. Sorry Philly fans I am just more sympathetic to the Giants. And the fact that Braman was their owner doesn't make me like them much more.

 

I feel like this whole thing is personal now because Braman is not in it to win. Instead, what he is trying to do is stick it to each and everyone of us. If he was really interested in "doing something good" he would drop the case. He really has no chance. Instead, he is just delaying his loss, which will only hurt us and the Marlins. Because he is not going to accomplish anything he is going to make us and the Marlins organization not accomplish anything. Even though Jacobs may have won a-hole of the week I think this guy earns a-hole of the season.

he know their was deadline on july 1 so he told court that his family know judge of case that not allow so now we back top step 1

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2008/jul/01...llpark-lawsuit/

 

Miami judge considers Marlins ballpark lawsuit

By ASSOCIATED PRESS

12:58 p.m., Tuesday, July 1, 2008

 

MIAMI ? A Miami judge decided a trial will begin next week in a lawsuit challenging a financing plan for a new Florida Marlins ballpark and other public projects.

 

Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Jeri Beth Cohen said Tuesday she would also reconsider whether the Marlins must produce detailed financial information for the case.

 

Auto dealer and philanthropist Norman Braman claims in the lawsuit that a proposed financing plan is unconstitutional. The $3 billion plan includes the new downtown Marlins ballpark at the site of the old Orange Bowl, a tunnel to the Port of Miami and other projects.

 

Cohen got the case last week when another judged stepped aside because of a conflict.

 

The Marlins hope to begin playing at the new 37,000-seat stadium in 2011.

 

Good news that they won't be delayed until September. I don't understand why the judge will reconsider if they have to produce detailed financial information...I don't see what that has to do with this case.

 

Anyway, I suppose this is a win, because I believe that Braman's only goal is to delay this as long as possible. Let's see what else he can come up with to try and stall further.

Well it's a consideration to produce those do uments. If the Marlins have to than they will do it. They want the stadium bad enough. I mean it shouldn't be that hard to produce those documents. Also, I think the Marlins lawyers can make a case that it is unreasonable to go into extreme detail of where exactly the money is going in the stadium (like how much money is going to spend on the seats, scoreboard, etc.) But, even so, they have those plans set for the most part. The rendering that are coming soon are, for the most part, pretty definitive. They change little things here and there but it's the basic outline. From what Samson said in one of the broadcasts, everyone in the Marlins organization were going to see the rendering before they are released (it sounded like he was talking about that night after the game) and told Rich and Tommy that they will get a sneak peak as well. Also, Judge Cohen said she was going to be busy until September and now she wants to hear the case immediately. This probably means that she feels the case will be short and sweet. Marlins attorneys are probably really confident about winning this case. I think we should be confident as well. GO MARLINS

Also, Judge Cohen said she was going to be busy until September and now she wants to hear the case immediately. This probably means that she feels the case will be short and sweet. Marlins attorneys are probably really confident about winning this case. I think we should be confident as well. GO MARLINS

I wish, but not a chance.

I doubt she will demand the Marlins open their books, certainly MLB's lawyers will fight that strenuously, and frankly to what end? The Marlins don't own the stadium, they are leasing it, they aren't financing it, the only reason the plaintiffs want the information is because they know the defendants would be reluctant to make it public, it's being done to embarrass them and push them into a corner.

 

It's very telling about what a scumbag sub-human Braman is and the lengths he will go to get his way. This whole thing is after all about Braman's finances not the Marlins.

 

I doubt they'll be forced to.

This is good news that the trial won't be delayed until September. I think we should be confident that the Marlins will win, because it's happening next week and not in September like Braman wanted. Go Marlins

I doubt she will demand the Marlins open their books, certainly MLB's lawyers will fight that strenuously, and frankly to what end. The Marlins don't own the stadium, they are leasing it, they aren't financing it, the only reason the plaintiffs want the information is because they know the defendants would be reluctant to make it public, it's being done to embarrass them and push them into a corner.

 

It's very telling about a scumbag Braman is and the lengths he will go to get his way. This whole thing is after all about Braman's finances not the Marlins.

 

I doubt they'll be forced to.

I agree with you on this point. This is all just harassment that is a favorite tactic of lawyers and yes, Braman is what you say. However, this will not be short and sweet. The judge is an extremely competent, detailed oriented individual who will give both sides their full say. She did not succumb to pressure to make rash and hasty decisions in her last high profile case and this will, unfortunately for Marlin fans, IMO, be more lengthy than we want. Even if the stadium deal could be separated from it, somehow, Braman has something up his sleeve because he really does not want the stadium built. This whole case is a lawyers dream, full of details and projections etc etc, all that can be attacked from multiple angles. Just my thoughts.

Why is this guy such a douche cake? Stop acting stupid and take the loss like a man. Braman is stalling because he CAN'T win. I bet you he is pissing his pants and telling his lawyers to do whatever possible to delay the hearing to gather as much evidence and documents as possible. And I also bet his lawyers are telling him "But Norm, there is nothing. The city and county are sending us thousands of documents and we don't have documentation of our own. We have no goddamn case." To which Braman replies, "Well, do whatever you can to take these peasant Marlins fan and their sh*tty team down." Little does he know that as much of a sh*tty team he thinks the Marlins are he was owner of even a shittier team... the Philadelphia Eagles are pretty pathetic. Sorry Philly fans I am just more sympathetic to the Giants. And the fact that Braman was their owner doesn't make me like them much more.

 

I feel like this whole thing is personal now because Braman is not in it to win. Instead, what he is trying to do is stick it to each and everyone of us. If he was really interested in "doing something good" he would drop the case. He really has no chance. Instead, he is just delaying his loss, which will only hurt us and the Marlins. Because he is not going to accomplish anything he is going to make us and the Marlins organization not accomplish anything. Even though Jacobs may have won a-hole of the week I think this guy earns a-hole of the season.

 

He was one of the reasons the Eagles are pathetic. He had the best NFL defense in the early 90s, and they did not even win a playoff game. He was getting hate mail and death threats from Eagles fans by the time he sold that team. He is a carpet bagger and total POS.

 

What I mean is that they are historically pretty stupid. I really didn't mean like sh*tty as in bad but as in pathetic and underperforming.

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2008/jul/01...llpark-lawsuit/

 

New trial date: July 9

 

And she is reconsidering earlier motions, including Braman's denied request for the team's financials.

That Judge who recused himself is stupid. Why would you not ask the party against whom the conflict of interest goes if they even care? By that standard, anyone can create their own conflict of interest by saying the judge has said nice things to them, then demand recusal based on it being adverse to the other party.

Here is the thing though. This lady has not much time on her hands. Not only that, Braman has no case whatsoever. The dude is just a pissed off old man. Anyone who is anyone says this guy is wasting his time.

as long as the date is set this is a plus. If that changes then we can bitch more, but right now lets wait the 3 days and see what happens.

If this law suit goes away can the City, County, and Marlins counter sue the plaintiff in this case (Braman) for time and money wasted defending this frivolous claim?

What are the chances of her simply throwing out the case?

Front page article in the Herald today (Sunday July 6)

 

 

MIAMI MEGAPLAN

Stadium's fate hangs in balance

A Miami businessman's lawsuit, which goes to court this week, is one of the last hurdles to the Marlins getting the ballpark they've long craved.

Posted on Sat, Jul. 05, 2008reprint print email

Yahoo! BuzzFacebook Digg del.icio.us AIM

BY CHARLES RABIN

crabin@MiamiHerald.com

 

AL DIAZ / MIAMI HERALD STAFF

Miami luxury auto dealer Norman Braman, who is leading the one-man campaign against the city-county plan to build a new stadium, tunnel and parks by expanding the community redevelopment areas, talks in his office.At its core, Braman v. Miami-Dade County, et al, is a straightforward civil matter over public money and voter intent.

 

Yet when the lawsuit comes to Miami-Dade Circuit Court on Wednesday, the vision of a future Miami potentially hangs in the balance.

 

Will the $3 billion ''megaplan'' for Miami, approved last year at lightning speed, move forward -- bringing with it a new Florida Marlins baseball stadium, a rejuvenated Overtown and a renovated Bicentennial Park?

 

Or will the plan's chief critic, auto dealer Norman Braman, stop the government in its tracks once more?

 

Heading to trial, Miami and the county won important preliminary court battles that whittled Braman's legal challenge and protected the Marlins' financial books.

 

Yet that momentum hit the skids last month when the sitting judge recused himself over a distant family tie to the Braman legal team -- and the auto dealer announced hopes of reviving the tossed counts.

 

The Braman team said it was being cautious in securing the recusal of Miami-Dade Circuit Court Judge Pedro Echarte Jr.; the city, county and Marlins believe Braman saw he was headed for a loss and pushed a thin argument to get a new judge.

 

That new jurist, Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Jeri Beth Cohen, will preside over a case likely to be short but spirited.

 

City and county leaders say the unprecedented package of projects will benefit a community in dire need of a jolt.

 

''This is the right time for public dollars to be working,'' said County Manager George Burgess.

 

Braman, 75, calls the public-works slate a ''shell game'' that exchanges money meant to renovate slum and blight for a new ballpark.

 

''I never expected this to be anything but an uphill fight,'' said Braman, eager for the courtroom joust.

 

The plan to build a tunnel to the Port of Miami, a park at Bicentennial Park, a streetcar system and a baseball stadium, all while paying off a $484 million construction debt at the Adrienne Arsht Center for the Performing Arts, took years to quietly form. But once it did, it was approved at breakneck speed in December.

 

Over six frenetic days, Burgess and Miami Mayor Manny Diaz announced the historic pact, then met -- often secretly -- in a dizzying lobbying effort with commissioners.

 

Then they watched as city and county commissioners passed votes to expand and extend two special taxing districts in Miami -- called Community Redevelopment Agencies -- for up to two decades. The move means that new development in those areas would generate money to help bankroll the largest public-works project in Miami in decades.

 

Under this blueprint, almost $800 million of CRA funds would help build the projects. No CRA money goes to the $515 million stadium, which would be built with $120 million from the Marlins and $395 million in tourist tax dollars collected from the sale of hotel beds. The Marlins will repay the county a $35 million loan, increasing the team's contribution to $155 million.

 

Had the deal not been engineered, a major chunk of those tourist tax dollars likely would have been used to pay off the performing arts center's $484 million debt.

 

That financial arrangement is at the heart of Braman's lawsuit: ``That's the shell game. Retire the debt, then that financial obligation is used to build the ballpark.''

 

Burgess sees the arrangement in a different light.

 

''A visionary investment in the urban core,'' he said.

 

BRAMAN'S ARGUMENT

 

Braman entered the fray in late January, claiming misuse of public funds but saying he would drop the legal challenge if the public got to vote.

 

That's not likely to happen.

 

County Mayor Carlos Alvarez recently compared the stadium plan to a water reuse project or the purchase of Metrorail cars -- decisions made with public input absent referendums. ''The commission could have turned it down,'' said Alvarez.

 

Braman will argue that the county can't increase the $1.43 million a year in CRA money that bondholders were told would pay down debt at the Arsht Center. He'll say county commissioners have no right to redirect $50 million the public originally intended to refurbish the Orange Bowl to the new ballpark. And he'll contend that it's unconstitutional to pledge public credit to a private enterprise.

 

The county disagrees with all three premises.

 

''Norman has the right. People just have a philosophical belief that you shouldn't put public money into certain things,'' said Burgess.

 

There is precedent to private enterprise using public money. In 1996 in Tampa, a businessman named William Poe claimed a public referendum awarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers $318 million to build a new stadium was unconstitutional. He lost.

 

The Florida Supreme Court determined that building a stadium was ``substantially beneficial to the public.''

 

This is Braman's third battle against local government taxing in the past three decades -- and his most difficult.

 

In 1982, he led a successful campaign against a city sales tax to renovate the Orange Bowl for the Miami Dolphins. In 1999, he helped defeat a county campaign for a one-cent sales tax that would have cost taxpayers billions of dollars for mass transit.

 

''I've done it before,'' said Braman. ``But I did it with voters before, not in court. There's a big difference.''

 

If Braman wins now, there's no telling what will happen to all of the projects in the larger megaplan. The county could look for other avenues to raise money -- or, in a long-shot scenario, get Braman to drop the case by giving the public a vote on the stadium funding.

 

THE CORE OF THE CASES

 

Pretrial depositions offer glimpses into each side's case -- and the sometimes bitter relations between them.

 

Braman attorney Bob Martinez deposed Alvarez, Burgess, Diaz and Marlins President David Samson.

 

The rancor showed in Burgess' May deposition, when Martinez tired of his long-running commentary. ''I'll go to court and get an extension of time. So you can filibuster me all you want,'' Martinez said.

 

When Diaz was asked why all of the megaplan projects were lumped together -- a contentious issue to some -- he said it was for political expediency. Some commissioners supported pieces of the plan, but not all, and linking them would allow a stronger chance of passage, the Miami mayor testified.

 

''That's business, give and take,'' said the mayor.

 

The team hopes to break ground by November, then play Opening Day 2011 in the 37,000-seat retractable roof stadium in Little Havana. Without the new home and its revenue streams, the two-time World Series champions -- historically near the bottom in payroll and attendance in Major League Baseball -- say they cannot compete with other franchises.

 

The Marlins won an order to keep Braman from digging into their books, with Echarte ruling that the team's financing has no bearing on whether a stadium benefits the public. Though public money is headed for Little Havana, including $94 million for a parking garage, ''They didn't want their financials aired in the sunshine,'' Burgess said.

 

The county and ball club want the case tried now, not later, so they embraced Cohen's decision not to delay the proceedings.

 

Braman's deposition offered a peek into his argument against public credit for private enterprise -- even as he sells cars in downtown, from where the megaplan financing would largely spin.

 

Once owner of the Philadelphia Eagles, Braman owns properties assessed at over $7 million in and just outside one of the two targeted CRAs, the Omni district. His auto dealership and a soon-to-be-completed service center employ hundreds. He paid $96,938 in property taxes last year.

 

''That money is supposed to provide a quality of life for the people there, and what they're doing is taking money out of it,'' he said.

 

The city said the opposite will happen -- that the megaplan also will include millions to spur development in hard-pressed Overtown.

 

IN THE WEEK AHEAD

 

If it's possible to handicap a court battle before the gavel bangs, this one appeared to be tilting toward the government and team.

 

Last month, Echarte ruled that the city's vote on the megaplan was legal. An earlier decision dismissed a Braman claim that government leaders violated Sunshine Law rules in pushing the project.

 

Yet with a new judge seated, the battle starts anew this week when the parties file into Cohen's Miami courtroom, and the judge decides whether to uphold Echarte's earlier rulings before taking on the rest of Braman's case. Monday and Tuesday will be filled with pretrial motions, and the case is set to start Wednesday.

 

Already, Cohen has made a few decisions: She'll return a $500 campaign contribution that Braman gave her before she got involved in the case, and she said she won't have contact with another supporter, Mayor Alvarez, until the trial is over.

I cringed when I picked up the paper this morning and saw that headline on the front page "Stadium's fate hangs in balance" and then the picture of Norman Braman. I just can't stand the way this man paints himself to be this self-less, kind-hearted citizen's advocate. Please!

^he looks more like an old sick used car salesman rather than a luxury dealership owner. He has a face that makes you think he is always scheming and it seems like he is

Miami-Dade Circuit Court Judge Jeri Beth Cohen upheld two rulings Monday morning by a judge who recused himself last week in a trial against the county over the so-called ''megaplan'' that would transform downtown Miami.

 

Cohen ruled the Florida Marlins baseball team -- which gets a $515 million state-of-the-art ballpark and $94 million parking garage in the deal -- does not have to open its books to the public.

 

She upheld an earlier ruling by Circuit Judge Pedro Echarte Jr. that said the Marlins' finances had no bearing on the public benefit of a new ballpark.

 

Judge Cohen also decided to uphold Echarte's earlier decision that car dealer Norman Braman, whose lawsuit is the basis of the trial, had no standing to argue the Miami City Commission didn't give enough public notice before voting to accept the concept of the $3 billion megaplan.

 

Braman is suing Miami-Dade, the city of Miami and the Marlins to try and stop the use of hundreds of millions of community redevelopment dollars that enable the construction of a tunnel to the Port of Miami, a park at Bicentennial Park, a baseball stadium in Little Havana and perhaps a streetcar system.

 

Late Monday morning, Cohen continued to hear motions. The trial is set to start Wednesday.

 

GOOD NEWS AGAIN FOR ALL PARTIES INVOLVED

 

LINK

Miami-Dade Circuit Court Judge Jeri Beth Cohen upheld two rulings Monday morning by a judge who recused himself last week in a trial against the county over the so-called ''megaplan'' that would transform downtown Miami.

 

Cohen ruled the Florida Marlins baseball team -- which gets a $515 million state-of-the-art ballpark and $94 million parking garage in the deal -- does not have to open its books to the public.

 

She upheld an earlier ruling by Circuit Judge Pedro Echarte Jr. that said the Marlins' finances had no bearing on the public benefit of a new ballpark.

 

Judge Cohen also decided to uphold Echarte's earlier decision that car dealer Norman Braman, whose lawsuit is the basis of the trial, had no standing to argue the Miami City Commission didn't give enough public notice before voting to accept the concept of the $3 billion megaplan.

 

Braman is suing Miami-Dade, the city of Miami and the Marlins to try and stop the use of hundreds of millions of community redevelopment dollars that enable the construction of a tunnel to the Port of Miami, a park at Bicentennial Park, a baseball stadium in Little Havana and perhaps a streetcar system.

 

Late Monday morning, Cohen continued to hear motions. The trial is set to start Wednesday.

 

GOOD NEWS AGAIN FOR ALL PARTIES INVOLVED

 

LINK

 

AWESOME! that puts a damper on the Braman day. Thanks for the link. :thumbup

This is good news that the trial won't be delayed until September. I think we should be confident that the Marlins will win, because it's happening next week and not in September like Braman wanted. Go Marlins

 

 

I agree. The fact that it is all taking place in the middle of the baseball season is probably a good thing. Hopefully that wont change.

 

What I dont understand is why have'nt the Marlins or the city mention anything about increasing tolls to fund any additional costs???? What I do understand is that the city always finds a way to make things happen when it wants things to happen. No doubt they are going to get the stadium. Regardless of who argues or disagrees.

A good idea would be to do all the building now, and let time heal any wounds/pay back any debts. Who cares about debts, most people have them.

The financing of the stadium, as it exists today does not require raising of tolls or any other funding source other than tourist tax driven revenue streams that have been in place for nine years and the 50 million Already voter approved for the OB site.

This is good news that the trial won't be delayed until September. I think we should be confident that the Marlins will win, because it's happening next week and not in September like Braman wanted. Go Marlins

 

 

I agree. The fact that it is all taking place in the middle of the baseball season is probably a good thing. Hopefully that wont change.

 

What I dont understand is why have'nt the Marlins or the city mention anything about increasing tolls to fund any additional costs???? What I do understand is that the city always finds a way to make things happen when it wants things to happen. No doubt they are going to get the stadium. Regardless of who argues or disagrees.

A good idea would be to do all the building now, and let time heal any wounds/pay back any debts. Who cares about debts, most people have them.Sigh.

I recommend that as you get older you attempt to keep your own debt as low as you can. Time unfortunately does not heal the wounds of debt. Time does just the opposite, in fact. Any debt that you incur, unless paid off quickly, only compounds and increases with interest each year.

As for where the additional money will come from in case of cost over-runs, which are a virtual certainty. It's too early to tell. Best case, the Marlins manage to sign a construction agreement that clearly lays the liability for the cost overruns on either Hunt(the construction company), or the Marlins. That's the key, a signed,sealed , and elivered contract that addresses this issue. Otherwise, the cost overruns will somehow come out of the general operating fund of the county, and that means less quality and quantity of things like schools, emergency services, hospitals. But, for now, it's best to just hope for that construction contract to be completed at the 515 million dollar figure.