Seriously. Half or more of the posters on here seem to want to trade bench Uggla or think he should be dropped to the bottom of the lineup, and now I've even heard what seemed like ragging on his defense.

 

Now I'm not gonna say that his defense is his main feature or that he's a future gold glover, but he was and still probably is our most consistent IF defender, and putting him in perspective at his position, here is a fact that was rolled off during a recent broadcast: Dan Uggla led all MLB 2B in HRs, Doubles, and Runs scored and was #4 in RBIs (he is a #2 hitter after all) in 2007.

 

He's not Luis Castillo, but truth be told, guys like Castillo won't be that easy to obtain. Uggla is a special player he should be trying to get rid of.

 

I'm sure some of this has to do with his slow start thus far this season. But this is nothing new. In Mar & Apr 2007 he hit 219 with a s94 OBP.

He followed it up by hitting 307 with a 391 OBP in May. Just let the guy work it out. This teams problems aren't at 2B.

I agree for the most part. I think Uggla is a great hitter for his position (possibly the worst hitting position in baseball). As you say he isn't Luis Castillo. He is a different type of player all together. He is a power hitter who walks a little bit (he had 68 walks last year) and strikes out a lot. His power can't be underestimated though. He hit 49 doubles, which ranked second in the league, to go along with a very respectable 31 HR. The key is that he plays 2B, where his type of hitter is rare. I would prefer to see him hitting further down in the line up, but at the moment, we don't have any better options to hit second (I don't think Amezaga should play everyday). In short, I'm a huge Uggla fan.

I think that Uggla should be put further down in the lineup, probably 5th. And I'll admit it, it's because he doesn't hit for average. I think that throwing Amezega in the number two spot will definitely give us more of a prototype 1-2 beginning of our lineup.

 

He is no Luis Castillo, but don't forget that there were times when Luis had slumps. I'm in no way complaining about Uggla, but I just don't think that hitting .250 is what we need in the number two spot in the lineup.

Uggla is not suited to the #2 spot, but he is an outstanding hitter. He walks a lot, has tons of power, and is not a bad defensive player. The hate on Uggla is largely based upon worthless stats such as Strikeouts and Batting Average.

Uggla is not suited to the #2 spot, but he is an outstanding hitter. He walks a lot, has tons of power, and is not a bad defensive player. The hate on Uggla is largely based upon worthless stats such as Strikeouts and Batting Average.

 

Sorry, I was just curious as to how batting average was a worthless stat?

Probably one of those guys who thinks batting average is worthless because it doesn't take walks into account. I dunno, I think walks are more of a screw up by the pitcher than something special the hitter did. When Dontrelle Willis walked seven guys the other day, does that mean Chicago's hitters are GREAT? No.......it means Willis is bad. Walks are the overrated statistic as far as measuring a hitter.

Probably one of those guys who thinks batting average is worthless because it doesn't take walks into account. I dunno, I think walks are more of a screw up by the pitcher than something special the hitter did. When Dontrelle Willis walked seven guys the other day, does that mean Chicago's hitters are GREAT? No.......it means Willis is bad. Walks are the overrated statistic as far as measuring a hitter.

So Barry Bonds doesn't do anything? Let's not even use an extreme example, Kevin Youkils? Pat Burrell? Batters who work counts consistently don't have better BB rates? You are looking at to isolated of an event, a bad start by a bad pitcher, rather than the cumulation of what a hitter does here. Walks are a skill. And it is a very valuable one. It is also predictable based on a guys skill set, and an EXCELLENT statistic at measuring a hitter.

Maybe Uggla is the slow starter.

 

Look at the monthly averages.

(April - May - June)

 

2006y : .253 - .356 - .309

 

2007y : .219 - .307 - .241

 

 

 

Another weakest point was RISP.

Uggla's carreer RISP was .232/.308/.392

 

but, Option of "Runners on" was .275/.346/.493

Probably one of those guys who thinks batting average is worthless because it doesn't take walks into account. I dunno, I think walks are more of a screw up by the pitcher than something special the hitter did. When Dontrelle Willis walked seven guys the other day, does that mean Chicago's hitters are GREAT? No.......it means Willis is bad. Walks are the overrated statistic as far as measuring a hitter.

So Barry Bonds doesn't do anything? Let's not even use an extreme example, Kevin Youkils? Pat Burrell? Batters who work counts consistently don't have better BB rates? You are looking at to isolated of an event, a bad start by a bad pitcher, rather than the cumulation of what a hitter does here. Walks are a skill. And it is a very valuable one. It is also predictable based on a guys skill set, and an EXCELLENT statistic at measuring a hitter.

 

Walks are less of a skill than hits are. While some hitters are more effective at getting them, it still requires the pitcher to throw balls. Very few teams win the world series because they have a bunch of guys who can walk well, they will because they've got guys who can get the big hits.

 

Its funny, Ive never seen any sports station run a greatest walks episode. Kevin Youkilis is a good role player, but there is still something to be said about guys who can actually drive in runs. A walk doesnt drive in a run unless the bases are loaded. A hit can knock in many very quickly while putting another runner in position to score.

 

The bottom line is this- a ball is still usually a mistake by a pitcher. When it comes down to it, major league ball players need to be able to get on base against the pitchers who don't make the mistakes. The ability to hit is somewhat independent of what the pitcher does- a great hitter can get a hit out of any pitch while a guy can't simply walk on any pitch. Players who can hit will always be more valuable than those who can only walk and anyone who has actually played baseball can understand why.

Uggla is not suited to the #2 spot, but he is an outstanding hitter. He walks a lot, has tons of power, and is not a bad defensive player. The hate on Uggla is largely based upon worthless stats such as Strikeouts and Batting Average.

 

Sorry, I was just curious as to how batting average was a worthless stat?

 

Batting average is only worthless if it is not in conjunction with any power or ability to walk.

Walks are less of a skill than hits are. While some hitters are more effective at getting them, it still requires the pitcher to throw balls. Very few teams win the world series because they have a bunch of guys who can walk well, they will because they've got guys who can get the big hits.

 

Its funny, Ive never seen any sports station run a greatest walks episode. Kevin Youkilis is a good role player, but there is still something to be said about guys who can actually drive in runs. A walk doesnt drive in a run unless the bases are loaded. A hit can knock in many very quickly while putting another runner in position to score.

 

Walks in a small sample size can be attributed to a pitcher's wildness. But walking is just as much a skill as anything else a batter does. There is a reason guys like Dunn, Bonds, and even Uggla are consistently good at picking up walks over the course of a season. You are basically saying that guys who walk 100 times just happen to face pitchers that have no control and they have no control over it.

 

A hit is sometimes better than a walk. A single rarely is, unless there is something beyond the hitter's control, like an error or runners on base.

 

And your point about teams not winning world series because of having guys who walk is just wrong. It is never the sole factor, but good teams are generally teams that do everything well including walk. It is more rare for a team to be in the bottom half of the league in walks and win than in the top half.

Walks are less of a skill than hits are. While some hitters are more effective at getting them, it still requires the pitcher to throw balls. Very few teams win the world series because they have a bunch of guys who can walk well, they will because they've got guys who can get the big hits.

 

Its funny, Ive never seen any sports station run a greatest walks episode. Kevin Youkilis is a good role player, but there is still something to be said about guys who can actually drive in runs. A walk doesnt drive in a run unless the bases are loaded. A hit can knock in many very quickly while putting another runner in position to score.

 

Walks in a small sample size can be attributed to a pitcher's wildness. But walking is just as much a skill as anything else a batter does. There is a reason guys like Dunn, Bonds, and even Uggla are consistently good at picking up walks over the course of a season. You are basically saying that guys who walk 100 times just happen to face pitchers that have no control and they have no control over it.

 

A hit is sometimes better than a walk. A single rarely is, unless there is something beyond the hitter's control, like an error or runners on base.

 

And your point about teams not winning world series because of having guys who walk is just wrong. It is never the sole factor, but good teams are generally teams that do everything well including walk. It is more rare for a team to be in the bottom half of the league in walks and win than in the top half.its also rare for a team to win anything when leading the league in strikeouts and errors :thumbup

its also rare for a team to win anything when leading the league in strikeouts and errors :thumbup

Again, funny that you harp on about errors as if you're talking defense and Uggla is the IF you target. If you want to improve our IF defense, Uggla is the last guy to go to, not the first.

And I'll agree with you about how important it is to hit. And remind you again that Uggla had more extra base hits than any other ML 2B last year.

For his Minor league career he was a 270-280 avg hitter with a 330-350 OBP. His rookie year was in line with that, not some shocking aberration. Last year was seemingly a down year, but I think that had to do with his focus on hitting 30 HRs. And even given the drop in avg, his OPS dropped less tha 15pts.

He had an off year, and he's a slow starter. He'll pick it up by the end of the month, have a good May, and then even out back to normal. Maybe not quite to his 06 numbers, but I would think something in the range of 260-275.

 

Another side note on the walks vs hits discussion - not everyone can be Vlad Guerrero. If a pitcher pitches poorly or around a hot hitter you can't blame the hitter for not being able to collect another hit. Obviously, a hitter will be pitched to more when they are slumping as well.

The hate on Uggla IMO is based on his low batting average and his high strikeout total. Too high for a #2 man in my estimation, he's a good power hitter and should be placed further down in the line-up 5th or 6th where he continue to produce his power numbers and his strikeouts don't hurt as much.

The hate on Uggla IMO is based on his low batting average and his high strikeout total. Too high for a #2 man in my estimation, he's a good power hitter and should be placed further down in the line-up 5th or 6th where he continue to produce his power numbers and his strikeouts don't hurt as much.

I'm fine with the argument that he should bat down in the order. I wonder if they'll insert Hermida at #2 and push the rest of the lineup down one. But I don't get the people who are hellbent on wanting to dump Uggla entirely.

The hate on Uggla IMO is based on his low batting average and his high strikeout total. Too high for a #2 man in my estimation, he's a good power hitter and should be placed further down in the line-up 5th or 6th where he continue to produce his power numbers and his strikeouts don't hurt as much.

I'm fine with the argument that he should bat down in the order. I wonder if they'll insert Hermida at #2 and push the rest of the lineup down one. But I don't get the people who are hellbent on wanting to dump Uggla entirely.

 

 

I think Uggla is fine. When you have a low budget team, Uggla is the type of player you need. He has some flaws, but over all he really produces. We'll just have to get used to a low batting average, and the strike outs and enjoy the bombs he hits.

 

I do agree with hitting him lower in the order however. I think they should give Cantu a shot at hitting second. I'm not sure he will hit for a higher batting average than Uggla, but he doesn't strike out much, makes a lot of contact, and has show the ability to hit the ball towards the second base area with a runner on second or third. Just a thought. Haven't seen much of Cantu so I could be wrong. Of course this is if Freddy insists on hitting Hermida third. If not Hermida would be my choice.

The hate on Uggla IMO is based on his low batting average and his high strikeout total. Too high for a #2 man in my estimation, he's a good power hitter and should be placed further down in the line-up 5th or 6th where he continue to produce his power numbers and his strikeouts don't hurt as much.

I'm fine with the argument that he should bat down in the order. I wonder if they'll insert Hermida at #2 and push the rest of the lineup down one. But I don't get the people who are hellbent on wanting to dump Uggla entirely.

 

walks are a significant statistic for a number two hitter as it improves his obp... the more you are on base... the more likely you will score. In a number two hitter, you expect more plate discipline. Plate discipline is best exemplified by the ability to walk or pitches seen. It also would entail details such as hitting behind the runner and moving them over and all that bat control language. Walks are significant but batting avg is not useless.

At any rate, I'd like to see Uggla in the top 5 of the batting order. Even with his bad average last season, he tied Hanley for the team lead in extra base hits.

Uggla is not suited to the #2 spot, but he is an outstanding hitter. He walks a lot, has tons of power, and is not a bad defensive player. The hate on Uggla is largely based upon worthless stats such as Strikeouts and Batting Average.

 

Sorry, I was just curious as to how batting average was a worthless stat?

 

Because OBP is inherently your ability to score and SLG is inherently your ability to drive in runs. Batting average is merely how many hits one gets out of a fraction of one's plate appearances.

What does it matter which one (hitting or walking) involves more skill? The point of baseball is scoring more runs than your opponent, and in order to score runs, you have to make the least amount of outs as possible, which is why OBP is such an important stat. OBP tells us the rate at which a player DOES NOT make an out. Batting average doesn't do that. That's not to say Batting Average is "meaningless", just OBP is more "meaningful".

What does it matter which one (hitting or walking) involves more skill? The point of baseball is scoring more runs than your opponent, and in order to score runs, you have to make the least amount of outs as possible, which is why OBP is such an important stat. OBP tells us the rate at which a player DOES NOT make an out. Batting average doesn't do that. That's not to say Batting Average is "meaningless", just OBP is more "meaningful".

 

Slugging is how many bases you advance other runners, OBP is how often you do not make an out. So what does Batting Average have to do with anything?

What does it matter which one (hitting or walking) involves more skill? The point of baseball is scoring more runs than your opponent, and in order to score runs, you have to make the least amount of outs as possible, which is why OBP is such an important stat. OBP tells us the rate at which a player DOES NOT make an out. Batting average doesn't do that. That's not to say Batting Average is "meaningless", just OBP is more "meaningful".

 

Slugging is how many bases you advance other runners, OBP is how often you do not make an out. So what does Batting Average have to do with anything?

 

Batting average should not be taken into consideration when looking at a player and his contribution to winning baseball games, but obviously it is a measure of how good a "hitter" is. My definition of "hitting" is simply putting the ball where the fielders ain't. If player 1 has a .300 batting avergage, and player 2 has a .270 batting average, we can assume player 1 is better at "hitting". That's not to say player 1 contributes more to his team than player 2, nor is it saying he is a better player. It is just saying he is a better "hitter".

Uggla is not suited to the #2 spot, but he is an outstanding hitter. He walks a lot, has tons of power, and is not a bad defensive player. The hate on Uggla is largely based upon worthless stats such as Strikeouts and Batting Average.

 

Sorry, I was just curious as to how batting average was a worthless stat?

 

Because OBP is inherently your ability to score and SLG is inherently your ability to drive in runs. Batting average is merely how many hits one gets out of a fraction of one's plate appearances.

 

Slugging can be affected by your position in the lineup. Batting average is totally independent of all of that. BA is your ability to hit. It is your Batting Average. Batting average is much more comprehensive of a stat than slugging.

 

And OBP can, to an extent, depend on who the pitcher was. It's a good stat, but there are too many variables to make it more important than BA.

Slugging can be affected by your position in the lineup. Batting average is totally independent of all of that. BA is your ability to hit. It is your Batting Average. Batting average is much more comprehensive of a stat than slugging.

 

And OBP can, to an extent, depend on who the pitcher was. It's a good stat, but there are too many variables to make it more important than BA.

 

Slugging is not affected by lineup any more than BA or OBP are. OBP is affected by the pitcher in the same manner that BA and SLG are. Batting average does not, in any way, reflect the run creating potential of the player in question.

i like Uggla he trying best to be best he can be he will get better as season go