Quote from Pressley

[hanley2]

From Barry Jackson's column in the Miami Herald:

 

Marlins second baseman Dan Uggla was due to hit second in the lineup against the Braves Tuesday, but manager Fredi Gonzalez said he is giving thought to changing that.

 

There's some internal sentiment that he's not well-suited there. ''He's probably a 3, 4, 5, 6 hitter,'' hitting coach Jim Presley said...Gonzalez said the notion of demoting struggling pitcher Andrew Miller ''has not crossed our mind'' because ''his confidence is good and he's throwing strikes.''

 

 

Uggla is still hitting 2nd tonight because it takes Frederico more than one day to pull his head entirely out of his ass. :banghead

 

But...

 

Please, Jimmy, Keep pushing Fredi toward enlightenment. :mis2 Great work thus far! :thumbup

 

Does anyone think its possible Pressley has been advocating moving Uggla down for some time and Fredi just refuses to switch him? Is that what Pressley means by internal sentiment?

 

HIT ALFREDO 2ND.

[305_FishFanatic]

Just like Tommy said in the game. Freddie doesnt want to be flip flopping Uggla from 2nd to 6th. Amezega doesnt play everyday and who else would u bat 2nd when Amezega isnt in the lineup?

[hanley2]

Just like Tommy said in the game. Freddie doesnt want to be flip flopping Uggla from 2nd to 6th. Amezega doesnt play everyday and who else would u bat 2nd when Amezega isnt in the lineup?

 

I understand the problem, but it doesn't mean that Uggla should be left hitting 2nd into eternity.

 

The bottom line is that Uggla will have around 30 hrs and 40 doubles this year with a barisp of .190 and I'm scared to know what his actual BA may be. He is the least 2 hitter that there ever was. This isn't a criticism at all of Uggla, whose jersey t-shirt I own, but where his manager places him in the lineup, which has been hurting this team since last year's all-star break. He is the quintessential 5,6 hitter.

 

I don't have an answer for who should bat 2nd when Alfredo doesn't play because it's not Cody Ross. So I guess I'm in favor of having Alfredo play every day. His Luis-like abilities with Uggla slugging 5th or 6th will make the lineup deeper. And if Alfredo doesn't hit lefties, from the right or left, he still won't be that much worse than Uggla in terms of BA and OBP, which the 2 hitter is supposed to excel at.

 

Maybe when De Aza comes back he can play every day and hit 2nd. But I guess the real point here is that the whole thing will be moot once messiah Maybin comes up to the bigs.

[MiamiManiac131]

Just like Tommy said in the game. Freddie doesnt want to be flip flopping Uggla from 2nd to 6th. Amezega doesnt play everyday and who else would u bat 2nd when Amezega isnt in the lineup?

 

Was Tommy answering an email when he was talkin about that? I sent in a question about this (as I'm sure some others did as well)... I was eating dinner with the fam when they talked about it...

[Joe Girardi]

Just like Tommy said in the game. Freddie doesnt want to be flip flopping Uggla from 2nd to 6th. Amezega doesnt play everyday and who else would u bat 2nd when Amezega isnt in the lineup?

 

I understand the problem, but it doesn't mean that Uggla should be left hitting 2nd into eternity.

 

The bottom line is that Uggla will have around 30 hrs and 40 doubles this year with a barisp of .190 and I'm scared to know what his actual BA may be. He is the least 2 hitter that there ever was. This isn't a criticism at all of Uggla, whose jersey t-shirt I own, but where his manager places him in the lineup, which has been hurting this team since last year's all-star break. He is the quintessential 5,6 hitter.

 

I don't have an answer for who should bat 2nd when Alfredo doesn't play because it's not Cody Ross. So I guess I'm in favor of having Alfredo play every day. His Luis-like abilities with Uggla slugging 5th or 6th will make the lineup deeper. And if Alfredo doesn't hit lefties, from the right or left, he still won't be that much worse than Uggla in terms of BA and OBP, which the 2 hitter is supposed to excel at.

 

Maybe when De Aza comes back he can play every day and hit 2nd. But I guess the real point here is that the whole thing will be moot once messiah Maybin comes up to the bigs.

You don't have to put Amezaga htiing 2nd for the rest of the season. There no rule stating you can't change the lineup when a lefty pitch tomorrow. :thumbup

[Rabbethan]

Just like Tommy said in the game. Freddie doesnt want to be flip flopping Uggla from 2nd to 6th. Amezega doesnt play everyday and who else would u bat 2nd when Amezega isnt in the lineup?

 

Was Tommy answering an email when he was talkin about that? I sent in a question about this (as I'm sure some others did as well)... I was eating dinner with the fam when they talked about it...

Yeah, it was an e-mail.

[Admin]

I still contend having Hermida, Willingham, Ramirez batting 1-3.

[Erick]

Hermida should bat 2nd. He's patient, doesn't strike out as much, and basically really has a great eye at the plate.

 

Let Willingham hit 3rd, Jake 4th, and perhaps Uggla 5th. Or you can have Cantu 5th, and Uggla 6th b/c Uggla is also like the worst player on the team with .RISP.

[CyggyMarlin]

As long as Hanley stays at lead-off, hermida should be 2nd... put a lefty in the 2 hole since the right side is open when Hanley is on 1st... a base hit to right gets hanley to 2nd or 3rd, or even a ground out to right can move Hanley into scoring position, especially if hanley steals 2nd ahead of time...

 

My line-up if hanley is gonna lead-off..

1. Hanley

2. Hermida

3. Willingham

4. Jacobs

5. Cantu

6. Uggla

7. Treanor/Rabelo

8. Amezaga

9. Pitcher

[Tee Ball Bunt Machine]

HIT ALFREDO 2ND.

No.

 

I will agree with the others here, and if you're gonna move the top of the lineup, it should be everyday players. Hermida would be the best shot as a #2 hitter. He takes a lot of pitches, meaning a lot of SB oppportunities for Hanley, and besides Hanley, he is probably the most likely to hit for a high average over time while not being the most likely to hit 30+ HRs.

[Admin]

I still don't understand the logic in hitting Ramirez lead off. His SLG is the best on the team and he hits reasonably well with RISP. Hermida should be hitting before Ramirez. He has better plate discipline and isn't as much of a power hitter.

[Tee Ball Bunt Machine]

I still don't understand the logic in hitting Ramirez lead off. His SLG is the best on the team and he hits reasonably well with RISP. Hermida should be hitting before Ramirez. He has better plate discipline and isn't as much of a power hitter.

One argument might be that at least part of the reason his SLG is higher is that his speed allows him to take extra bases other players wouldn't, and that might be semi-negated by hitting with someone on 1B. But I suppose that's not a terribly strong argument, so I'll just put it this way:

Yes, Hanley would be a better #3 hitter than anyone we have. Hell, I'm sure if we could have Hanley bat for everyone on the team we would. But he can only bat in one spot, and not only do we have no other lead-off hitter, but the gap between Hanley and the next best lead-off man is a lot more than the gap between Hanley and the next best #3 or 4 hitter. Hermida lacks the speed to lead off. He would be blocking Hanley down the basepaths.

[Admin]

I don't believe that a lead off spot requires speed. At least it is severely masked by plate discipline. Hence I think Hermida is more than capable of filling that role for the time being.

 

It doesn't help either that Gonzalez allegedly told Ramirez to cut back on base stealing.

[Out of the Past]

Just like Tommy said in the game. Freddie doesnt want to be flip flopping Uggla from 2nd to 6th. Amezega doesnt play everyday and who else would u bat 2nd when Amezega isnt in the lineup?

I guess the reason Fredo doesn't hit 2nd is because Fredi doesn't want to make lineup changes depending on whether Cody or Fredo is playing but if Uggla can hit 2nd then Cody vs lefties can certainly hit 2nd as well.

[Tee Ball Bunt Machine]

I don't believe that a lead off spot requires speed. At least it is severely masked by plate discipline. Hence I think Hermida is more than capable of filling that role for the time being.

 

It doesn't help either that Gonzalez allegedly told Ramirez to cut back on base stealing.

There's more to base running than base stealing. Turning a single into a double or a double into a triple, getting good leads and good reads to keep from being doubled up on a ground ball, advancing on fly balls, etc. Not only is Hanley better at this, but much of it becomes more difficult if not impossible with someone on the base ahead of him.

[Admin]

I'm aware.

 

That is trumped by his power ability wasted with no one on base before him.

 

There is no clear answer with the current lineup. There are two travesties, however: Uggla's low OBP in the second spot and Hanley's high SLG in the lead off spot.

 

Hermida is a capable enough baserunner and he certainly won't inhibit Ramirez on the basepaths to any observable degree. You are talking about negligible issues and I'm talking about the big picture.

[Y08Marlin]

There is no clear answer with the current lineup.

 

I think this is the root of the problem. We were spoiled pre-2006 by the formulaic nature of the lineup. Pierre then Luis at the tip just made sense. Now, our best 3 hitter (Hanley) can't hit their because we don't have anyone else to hit leadoff. As a result, our prototypical 2 hitter (Hermida) has to hit third, leaving an awkward hole at 2. If anything, Hanley is hurt because he does to many things well. If he wasn't as quick, he would probably have been hitting 3rd for some time now. Oh the dilema of having such and increadibly talented player...

[Admin]

Part of what hurt us in 2005 was keeping Pierre in the lead off spot when he could not get on base. Sure, he's a good baserunner but his lack of walks hurt the offense severely. Keeping Pierre in the leadoff spot just because he had speed was a terrible mistake.

[EricWiener]

There is no clear answer with the current lineup.

 

I think this is the root of the problem. We were spoiled pre-2006 by the formulaic nature of the lineup. Pierre then Luis at the tip just made sense. Now, our best 3 hitter (Hanley) can't hit their because we don't have anyone else to hit leadoff. As a result, our prototypical 2 hitter (Hermida) has to hit third, leaving an awkward hole at 2. If anything, Hanley is hurt because he does to many things well. If he wasn't as quick, he would probably have been hitting 3rd for some time now. Oh the dilema of having such and increadibly talented player...

 

Hermida can lead off. He gets on base and can run.

 

Hermida

Ramirez

Jacobs

Willingham

Uggla

 

Makes a lot more sense than the current arrangement. The last 3 depend on LHP / RHP and Treanor / Rabelo

[Sirspud]

There is no clear answer with the current lineup.

 

I think this is the root of the problem. We were spoiled pre-2006 by the formulaic nature of the lineup. Pierre then Luis at the tip just made sense. Now, our best 3 hitter (Hanley) can't hit their because we don't have anyone else to hit leadoff. As a result, our prototypical 2 hitter (Hermida) has to hit third, leaving an awkward hole at 2. If anything, Hanley is hurt because he does to many things well. If he wasn't as quick, he would probably have been hitting 3rd for some time now. Oh the dilema of having such and increadibly talented player...

 

I don't think Hanley in the leadoff spot is just a matter of speed. It's a matter of success, and having a guy who makes things happen so consistently in the leadoff spot does wonders for the rest of the lineup. I also think that Hermida is actually a natural number three hitter in this lineup.

[Admin]

Hermida is no joke when it comes to power, but right now Ramirez easily has him beat and likely will do so for the rest of both of their careers. Hermida has exceptional plate discipline and that's not something that goes away. Thus, his ability to simply get on base is more than enough to make him a capable lead off hitter.

 

Ramirez is being wasted where he is right now. Plain and simple.

[CyggyMarlin]

I agree, Hanley should not lead off. it's pointless to have the 8 hole hitter get on, then bunt him over only to have our best hitter walked cause there is a base open and Uggla is not a sure bet to get the runs knocked in...

[Tee Ball Bunt Machine]

I'm fine with moving down Uggla in the right lineup. But I still say given what we have, Hanley should hit leadoff with Hermida #2, something like this:

 

Hanley

Hermida

Willingham

Jacobs

Cantu

Uggla

 

you can flip-flop the CF and C spot at the bottom of the order depending on who's playing, as well as flip-flop Cantu & Uggla once Uggla heats up.

[Admin]

I wouldn't put Willingham third. He should be hitting in front of Hermida/Ramirez because they have superior SLG. You want the number three hitter to be the best of Ramirez, Hermida, and Willingham.

 

Again, the emphasis on speed/baserunning is ridiculously overstated. Oakland's experiments with Jeremy Giambi leading off were commendable.

[Tee Ball Bunt Machine]

I wouldn't put Willingham third. He should be hitting in front of Hermida/Ramirez because they have superior SLG. You want the number three hitter to be the best of Ramirez, Hermida, and Willingham.

 

Again, the emphasis on speed/baserunning is ridiculously overstated. Oakland's experiments with Jeremy Giambi leading off were commendable.

Willingham SLG > Hermida SLG, for their careers and for this season, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

And again, Hanley's SLG is boosted by the fact that his speed will allow him to take an extra base that most players, including these two, won't get. Just think inside the park HR for a second. Or How Hanley has 18 career triples vs Hammer's 7. Do you attribute that more to power or speed?