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So...Jorge Cantu.......


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I'd trade him at the deadline (assuming he keeps this up) and not think twice about it.

I didn't think he had a snowball's chance in hell of producing on the level he did in spring training but I was proven wrong. This is the best start to a season he's had since his career year in '04. Considering that we don't have any standout third base prospects, I wouldn't mind seeing him stick around for another year.

 

We also have a guy in the minors who is hitting the ball well and probably plays a much better third base.

Who? I really hope you're not talking about Jason Wood.

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I'd trade him at the deadline (assuming he keeps this up) and not think twice about it.

 

 

Even if we are in contention??

How about we just wait and see?

 

I'm not sure which is more unlikely...Cantu putting up these numbers still in July or the Marlins being close to a playoff spot.

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adjusted for at bats cantu is one hit behind hanley %-wise.

 

cantu- 25/77 obp .381

 

hanley 30/90 .obp .406

 

the guy is making great contact and on a team like this that's added value. of course now comes the debate about strikeouts and putting the ball in play :banghead

 

If Cantu can hang onto something like a .270/.280 BAA, I don't have any problem with him an outs an out... unless it's a GIDP :lol

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adjusted for at bats cantu is one hit behind hanley %-wise.

 

cantu- 25/77 obp .381

 

hanley 30/90 .obp .406

 

the guy is making great contact and on a team like this that's added value. of course now comes the debate about strikeouts and putting the ball in play :banghead

 

Then why say things?

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I'd trade him at the deadline (assuming he keeps this up) and not think twice about it.

 

 

Even if we are in contention??

How about we just wait and see?

 

I'm not sure which is more unlikely...Cantu putting up these numbers still in July or the Marlins being close to a playoff spot.

 

I would gather that if Cantu is still putting up these numbers in July, the Marlins will be close to a playoff spot, because we will get production out of Jacobs, Uggla, Hermida, Willingham, and Ramirez.

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adjusted for at bats cantu is one hit behind hanley %-wise.

 

cantu- 25/77 obp .381

 

hanley 30/90 .obp .406

 

the guy is making great contact and on a team like this that's added value. of course now comes the debate about strikeouts and putting the ball in play :banghead

 

Then why say things?

 

I'll make sure to check with you next time.

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adjusted for at bats cantu is one hit behind hanley %-wise.

 

cantu- 25/77 obp .381

 

hanley 30/90 .obp .406

 

the guy is making great contact and on a team like this that's added value. of course now comes the debate about strikeouts and putting the ball in play :banghead

 

Then why say things?

 

I'll make sure to check with you next time.

 

It just seems to me that if you don't want the "debate about strikeouts and putting the ball in play :banghead" then the intelligent thing to do would be to not mention it. You pulled it out of your ass on that post since nobody else mentioned it before you, so if the debate comes up, it's all on you.

 

And for the record, Cantu's on pace for about 100 K's this season, so there's that. You could at least have looked at his numbers before saying he's making great contact. He's walking and striking out more than he ever has in his career, so he's actually not making great contact compared to previous years.

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Lecturing anyone about intelligence isn't your strong suit so don't go there. What you are is a classic dogmatist. I'm still trying to figure what taking walks has to do with making contact since by definition he's laying off pitches out of the strike zone that he shouldn't be swinging at. This strike outs/putting the ball in play argument that has gone on here for three, four years, after a while it does getting boring and the answer is there is no answer. Those who believe one way can point to their facts and figures, people on the other side the same. But you know what you're probably right I could have not mentioned it, I'm just fed up with these never-ending arguments.

 

As for Cantu he is making great contact this season even when he makes outs. Striking out 100 times sounds like a big number and nothing to be proud of, but the truth is if he only strikes out 100 times in 2008 he'll have a helluva year. In today's game it's hardly out of the norm. In fact the list of premier players with over 100 strikeouts last season would make quite a lineup. I don't know that's a benchmark that makes any sense these days unless you want to indict Cabrera, Wright, Soriano, D Lee, Willingham and Hermida in 2/3 of a season, A-Rod. The list is almost endless. There's Ryan Howard's 199 SOs or BJ Upton or Granderson, Tulowitzki, etc. etc. etc. Collectively guys who struck out a hundred times or more last season looks like a who's who of major league stars.

 

But I'm really hoping you're right and all he does is strike out 100 times this season. That would be really great!

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I think Cantu has a very nice future, and I hope its with the Fish. McPherson tearing up the ball in Albequeque does not tell me a whole lot. The ball flies out of that park, guys like Scott Seabol and Val Pascucci had 30+ homer seasons thanks in large to the league's parks, and their home park. I do like the way Dallas is hitting, but he has had a lot of injury problems in the past, so I like Cantu better. And if we trade Jorge and Dallas gets hurt then Wes Helms will be starting, and I really don't want that.

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I like what Cantu was doing and I was extremely happy with the signing from the start. But if anyone thinks that this team will hesitate to move him for the right offer near the deadline, think again. Beinfest has shown in the past that he isn't afraid to take a gamble and try to win. With DMac in the minors, in some ways 3B could be considered a position of strength. This does not mean that losing Cantu wouldn't be a gamble, but if we could get a good pitcher that we might desperately need, it's something to consider.

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I like what Cantu was doing and I was extremely happy with the signing from the start. But if anyone thinks that this team will hesitate to move him for the right offer near the deadline, think again. Beinfest has shown in the past that he isn't afraid to take a gamble and try to win. With DMac in the minors, in some ways 3B could be considered a position of strength. This does not mean that losing Cantu wouldn't be a gamble, but if we could get a good pitcher that we might desperately need, it's something to consider.

 

 

Incorrect sir. DMac in the minors does not make 3B a strength. DMac is putting up Brett Carroll lite numbers in the PCL, which should tell you his potential. Except DMac is not an above defender like Carroll.

 

If he is part of the future with the Florida Marlins, we are in trouble. He is not a prospect at this point to be anything more than a league average (offensively) starting third baseman.

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Lecturing anyone about intelligence isn't your strong suit so don't go there. What you are is a classic dogmatist. I'm still trying to figure what taking walks has to do with making contact since by definition he's laying off pitches out of the strike zone that he shouldn't be swinging at. This strike outs/putting the ball in play argument that has gone on here for three, four years, after a while it does getting boring and the answer is there is no answer. Those who believe one way can point to their facts and figures, people on the other side the same. But you know what you're probably right I could have not mentioned it, I'm just fed up with these never-ending arguments.

 

As for Cantu he is making great contact this season even when he makes outs. Striking out 100 times sounds like a big number and nothing to be proud of, but the truth is if he only strikes out 100 times in 2008 he'll have a helluva year. In today's game it's hardly out of the norm. In fact the list of premier players with over 100 strikeouts last season would make quite a lineup. I don't know that's a benchmark that makes any sense these days unless you want to indict Cabrera, Wright, Soriano, D Lee, Willingham and Hermida in 2/3 of a season, A-Rod. The list is almost endless. There's Ryan Howard's 199 SOs or BJ Upton or Granderson, Tulowitzki, etc. etc. etc. Collectively guys who struck out a hundred times or more last season looks like a who's who of major league stars.

 

But I'm really hoping you're right and all he does is strike out 100 times this season. That would be really great!

 

Are you lecturing me about the unimportance of strikeouts? I had no qualms with him striking out, it's your assertion that he is making good contact that I was arguing with. He is, arguably, making less contact than he has at any point in his career. This is all I was saying, no need to get your chest all puffed out and angry. I know since Swifty left you don't have anyone to have cat fights with, but please don't pick me.

 

And really, if you want to compare Cantu to any of those guys, you are out of your f***ing mind. 100 Ks is still probably higher than average, so if you want to say he's making good contact, he isn't. The only thing Cantu has in common with anyone you listed is he might strike out 100 times, and he's a professional baseball player.

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I like what Cantu was doing and I was extremely happy with the signing from the start. But if anyone thinks that this team will hesitate to move him for the right offer near the deadline, think again. Beinfest has shown in the past that he isn't afraid to take a gamble and try to win. With DMac in the minors, in some ways 3B could be considered a position of strength. This does not mean that losing Cantu wouldn't be a gamble, but if we could get a good pitcher that we might desperately need, it's something to consider.

 

 

Incorrect sir. DMac in the minors does not make 3B a strength. DMac is putting up Brett Carroll lite numbers in the PCL, which should tell you his potential. Except DMac is not an above defender like Carroll.

 

If he is part of the future with the Florida Marlins, we are in trouble. He is not a prospect at this point to be anything more than a league average (offensively) starting third baseman.

 

I wanted Mac in the lineup over Cantu from day one, and Cantu hitting over his head isn't changing my opinion. It's nice to see him do this, but he's not a .900 OPS player. MacPherson probably isn't, but if healthy, the talent is there.

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Lecturing anyone about intelligence isn't your strong suit so don't go there. What you are is a classic dogmatist. I'm still trying to figure what taking walks has to do with making contact since by definition he's laying off pitches out of the strike zone that he shouldn't be swinging at. This strike outs/putting the ball in play argument that has gone on here for three, four years, after a while it does getting boring and the answer is there is no answer. Those who believe one way can point to their facts and figures, people on the other side the same. But you know what you're probably right I could have not mentioned it, I'm just fed up with these never-ending arguments.

 

As for Cantu he is making great contact this season even when he makes outs. Striking out 100 times sounds like a big number and nothing to be proud of, but the truth is if he only strikes out 100 times in 2008 he'll have a helluva year. In today's game it's hardly out of the norm. In fact the list of premier players with over 100 strikeouts last season would make quite a lineup. I don't know that's a benchmark that makes any sense these days unless you want to indict Cabrera, Wright, Soriano, D Lee, Willingham and Hermida in 2/3 of a season, A-Rod. The list is almost endless. There's Ryan Howard's 199 SOs or BJ Upton or Granderson, Tulowitzki, etc. etc. etc. Collectively guys who struck out a hundred times or more last season looks like a who's who of major league stars.

 

But I'm really hoping you're right and all he does is strike out 100 times this season. That would be really great!

 

Are you lecturing me about the unimportance of strikeouts? I had no qualms with him striking out, it's your assertion that he is making good contact that I was arguing with. He is, arguably, making less contact than he has at any point in his career. This is all I was saying, no need to get your chest all puffed out and angry. I know since Swifty left you don't have anyone to have cat fights with, but please don't pick me.

 

And really, if you want to compare Cantu to any of those guys, you are out of your f***ing mind. 100 Ks is still probably higher than average, so if you want to say he's making good contact, he isn't. The only thing Cantu has in common with anyone you listed is he might strike out 100 times, and he's a professional baseball player.

 

Seems to me you're the one looking for a fight (and playing the victim) over some tiny thing you could have let pass especially since I said you were probably right about it in the first place.

 

But that shoudn't surprise anyone. So let's recap, I agree I didn't need to bring one thing up and I took your 100 strikeout number as legitimate, only making the point an awful lot of established major leaguers do far worse each season, using names people would recognize to make the point but that's not enough for you, you have to go on and say I'm out of my "f*cking mind" and I'm looking for a catfight and I'm equating Cantu with them, which I never did. It was about the number in today's game among agressive-style hitters. Read what I wrote.

 

You pass opinion off as fact all the time (that's the definition of a dogmatist and frankly have a right to your opinion) and then go out off if anyone disagrees with ridicule and name-calling. It has been your style since the day you arrived on the scene. You and Swift deserve each other. The modus operandi is the same.

 

You're not an idiot, I don't treat you like one either. You might want to brush up on the hubris thing and let someone else have an opinion of their own without a lecture and name-calling, or passing fiction off as fact.

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