Retro_Marlins is a funny little fairweather fan.

 

I have no clue, huh?

 

Care to post Uggla's #'s last year?

Lets see...

a .326 .OBP (when did this become a "good" .OBP)

167 K's (123 the year before).

 

Dan Uggla last year hit an outstanding .199 with .RISP (.594 .OPS), and an even better .133 with .RISP & 2 outs (.443 .OPS).

 

Even despite his "hot" start this year, Dan Uggla has a .235 batting average with .RISP.

 

Forgive me...it's not that I don't know anything...it's just, I don't go "goo-goo-ga-ga" over 1 HOT MONTH.

 

...b/c bottom line is 162 game sample sizes will always beat out a month of baseball, and fact is, Hermida (at 24) is putting together nice offensive #'s since last years All-Star Break (once again, better sample size).

 

Not EVERYTHING in baseball, is about the "long ball." (unless you're a chick) :thumbup

Utley's 27 is not Uggla's 28. Being born in December doesn't make Utley a year old. Hell there's less than a three month difference between the two's birthday. You don't add a year to Utley because his birthday is over three months after the season ends.

 

Unless there's a typo on the Phillies' MLB website Utley will be thirty (30) this December, making him roughly 2 years older than Uggla.

 

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/team/...layer_id=400284

 

 

* Edit : Calc: One year and three months difference.

...btw, it's really funny how everyone is calling Uggla's defense "underrated."

 

FACT is, he was one of the WORST defensive 2B in baseball, last year. Not good, not average, but terrible.

...and once again, some of his defensive stats this year, are among the WORST for 2B.

Utley's 27 is not Uggla's 28. Being born in December doesn't make Utley a year old. Hell there's less than a three month difference between the two's birthday. You don't add a year to Utley because his birthday is over three months after the season ends.

 

Unless there's a typo on the Phillies' MLB website Utley will be thirty (30) this December, making him roughly 2 years older than Uggla.

 

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/team/...layer_id=400284

 

Utley's birthday is in December, Uggla's in March.

 

Utley is 1 year older than Uggla more than he is 2 years older than Uggla. For more than 9 months there's a 1 year difference, for less than three months there's a 2 year difference, and it doesn't even happen in the baseball season but in the middle of the offseason.

 

The baseball season is from April-September, and that's the time frame that matters.

 

If Utley is born 15 days later it's a moot issue.

Utley's 27 is not Uggla's 28. Being born in December doesn't make Utley a year old. Hell there's less than a three month difference between the two's birthday. You don't add a year to Utley because his birthday is over three months after the season ends.

 

Unless there's a typo on the Phillies' MLB website Utley will be thirty (30) this December, making him roughly 2 years older than Uggla.

 

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/team/...layer_id=400284

 

Utley's birthday is in December, Uggla's in March.

 

Utley is 1 year older than Uggla more than he is 2 years older than Uggla.

 

The baseball season is from April-September

 

Both change ages in the offseason.

 

If Utley is born 15 days later it's a moot issue.

 

I was editing my previous post to add precise amount - One year and three months difference, Utley being older. (see above)

Right

 

But being born in Decemeber doesn't make his previous baseball season a year older.

 

When Utley was 28, his season was last year, 2007, not 2006. This baseball season, Utley is 29, not 30. He won't turn 30 until several months into the offseason. By Eric's assessment, this season counts as Utley being "30".

Retro_Marlins is a funny little fairweather fan.

 

I have no clue, huh?

 

Care to post Uggla's #'s last year?

Lets see...

a .326 .OBP (when did this become a "good" .OBP)

167 K's (123 the year before).

 

Dan Uggla last year hit an outstanding .199 with .RISP (.594 .OPS), and an even better .133 with .RISP & 2 outs (.443 .OPS).

 

Even despite his "hot" start this year, Dan Uggla has a .235 batting average with .RISP.

 

Forgive me...it's not that I don't know anything...it's just, I don't go "goo-goo-ga-ga" over 1 HOT MONTH.

 

...b/c bottom line is 162 game sample sizes will always beat out a month of baseball, and fact is, Hermida (at 24) is putting together nice offensive #'s since last years All-Star Break (once again, better sample size).

 

Not EVERYTHING in baseball, is about the "long ball." (unless you're a chick) :thumbup

 

 

I will argue that evertime Dan Uggla comes to bat there is a runner in scoring postion. The one at home plate. I know numbers can be useful but please don't make it seem as if this guy can't hit a lick. He has been a solid producer for two 2 seasons, and 1 and a 1/2 months.

 

There are some legit concerns about signing him long term such as his defense (which has improved), k's, and maybe his age. Oh, and a power hitter doesn't need to have a .400 OBP. His OBP is fine for what he does. That they were hitting him second where he didn't belong was not his fault. Not everything in baseball is about the numbers.

 

The only reason I'm against a big long term deal is because by following the arbitration process we can keep him anyway until he is in his early 30's which are supposed to be a players peak seasons. In other words ride him hard now, and let some over pay for him later. We can thank AZ for letting him linger in the minors for us. Sort of the same thing we did with Willingham, and the Mets with Jacobs. We now get to reap the benefits for each one of them until their early 30's.

Right

 

But being born in Decemeber doesn't make his previous baseball season a year older.

 

When Utley was 28, his season was last year, 2007, not 2006. This baseball season, Utley is 29, not 30. He won't turn 30 until several months into the offseason. By Eric's assessment, this season counts as Utley being "30".

 

Utley entered proball "younger" than Uggla. Utley entered in 2000, Uggla in 2001, there is a 1 season difference in their experience, despite the "2" years in age.

You said a variance in birthdays, not pro-ball. Also both entered proball at the same age (21).

 

And I don't see what pro-ball that has to do with anything. That means that Utley's 28 season was last year, and Uggla's 28 season is this year....which is exactly what I was saying.

Uggla is 28; Utley is 29.

Period.

 

...Utley is a better overall baseball player (than Uggla); he's the best player on the Phillies, much like Hanley is our best player. The reason the Phillies are able to sign their "Big 3," and we have to debate on who to sign, is b/c the Phillies don't have the same financial dilemmas.

You said a variance in birthdays, not pro-ball. Also both entered proball at the same age (21).

 

And I don't see what pro-ball that has to do with anything. That means that Utley's 28 season was last year, and Uggla's 28 season is this year....which is exactly what I was saying.

 

Whatever.

 

Uggla is ahead of Utley's development. He will have his 3rd .800 OPS + season this year. I will expect that he will have his 1st .900 OPS season as well. He will do it without Citizen's Bank Park, which is 2nd only to Fenway in its left-handed hitter bias. And therefore have three .800+ OPS season with less experience than Utley.

 

He is a line drive machine. He is going to crank 50 doubles, 30 homers, and draw 80 walks through his prime, and will very quickly become a guy that will cost us many millions in arbitration, and thus is not likely to be a Marlin in 2011 without a deal that buys him out.

We need a staying force..We must seal the deal

Isn't this all kind of knit-picking? Utley is a year older, which isn't even a big deal in the first place if for no other reason than player development isn't set in stone.

 

A guy can be chewed up at 23 and another guy just getting started at 27. A good example is Lindstrom, who as we all know took off for a year or two to minister. And people mature at different paces. If Chase Utley were in the bigs when he was 22 he might be stacking boxes at Walmart right now.

 

We are where we are.

Uggla is ahead of Utley's development. He will have his 3rd .800 OPS + season this year.

 

And Utley had 3 .900+ seasons in the same time frame. I really don't understand how you can say there's a difference in their "development". Both entered pro-ball at 21. Uggla had two strait .800 OPS seasons from 26-27. Utley had two strait .900 OPS seasons from 26-27. At 28, Utley had another .900 OPS season. At 28, so far Uggla is putting up great numbers but still 4 months to play. And again 82 games at CBP isn't going to add 100 points to OPS. Maybe .040-.050, which is still greater than Uggla's numbers, and even still that's SLG. When you consider that OBP has a higher corelation to runs than SLG does, and that Utley's OPS is more OBP driven then Uggla's is, the difference gets bigger there.

 

It's great seeing Uggla doing this, but he Utley has been better than Uggla has been at each stage of their careers.

LOL, why is this even a comparison?

 

Uggla's CAREER OPS+ is 117.

 

Utley's CAREER OPS+ is 128...and this includes his 1st 2 years, where he was mediocre; if I were to include his stats from his 3rd year on (since Utley began his career at a younger age than Uggla), it wouldn't even be close.

 

...and lets not even compare their career defensive #'s.

 

Chase Utley is the best 2B in baseball.

Been out of town, not sure how long this thread has been going for... Havent read any off it but I'll respond to the title of the thread...

 

HELL NO! I wouldnt give Uggla a Dime... :thumbup

Been out of town, not sure how long this thread has been going for... Havent read any off it but I'll respond to the title of the thread...

 

HELL NO! I wouldnt give Uggla a Dime... :thumbup

 

are you serious!?!?!!??!! wow :banghead :banghead

Uggla is ahead of Utley's development. He will have his 3rd .800 OPS + season this year.

 

And Utley had 3 .900+ seasons in the same time frame. I really don't understand how you can say there's a difference in their "development". Both entered pro-ball at 21. Uggla had two strait .800 OPS seasons from 26-27. Utley had two strait .900 OPS seasons from 26-27. At 28, Utley had another .900 OPS season. At 28, so far Uggla is putting up great numbers but still 4 months to play. And again 82 games at CBP isn't going to add 100 points to OPS. Maybe .040-.050, which is still greater than Uggla's numbers.

 

Except CBP has added massively to Utley's OPS, each of the last 2 seasons. Last season his home OPS was 180 points higher than on the road. In 2006 it was 122 points higher. The inflator for CPB is that absurd. Combine that with the deflator of Dolphin stadium and it is out of control...

 

CPB vs. LHP and DS vs. RHP

 

Singles: favor DS by 2%

Doubles: favor CBP by 9%

Triples: favor CBP by 10%

Homers: favor CBP by 44%

 

A LH power hitter that is identical to a RH hitter in all other ways would OPS far higher with 81 games in CBP rather than 81 in DS.

 

Utley's CAREER OPS+ is 128...and this includes his 1st 2 years, where he was mediocre; if I were to include his stats from his 3rd year on (since Utley began his career at a younger age than Uggla), it wouldn't even be close.

 

Erick, Utley is the best 2B in the NL right now, but time played in MLB is a significant factor. The incompetance of the Arizona Diamond backs as regards Dan Uggla should not be a knock on Dan. The more MLB pitching he sees, the more walks he draws and the more extra base hits he generates. Doubles and walks are clear indicators of improvement, and Dan is getting both at a pretty good rate. Not signing Dan is a foolish move. Period.

 

The only thing that age indicates moving forward is that, barring injury, Utley may have a longer career than Dan.

Uggla is ahead of Utley's development. He will have his 3rd .800 OPS + season this year.

 

And Utley had 3 .900+ seasons in the same time frame. I really don't understand how you can say there's a difference in their "development". Both entered pro-ball at 21. Uggla had two strait .800 OPS seasons from 26-27. Utley had two strait .900 OPS seasons from 26-27. At 28, Utley had another .900 OPS season. At 28, so far Uggla is putting up great numbers but still 4 months to play. And again 82 games at CBP isn't going to add 100 points to OPS. Maybe .040-.050, which is still greater than Uggla's numbers.

 

Except CBP has added massively to Utley's OPS, each of the last 2 seasons. Last season his home OPS was 180 points higher than on the road. In 2006 it was 122 points higher. The inflator for CPB is that absurd. Combine that with the deflator of Dolphin stadium and it is out of control...

 

CPB vs. LHP and DS vs. RHP

 

Singles: favor DS by 2%

Doubles: favor CBP by 9%

Triples: favor CBP by 10%

Homers: favor CBP by 44%

 

A LH power hitter that is identical to a RH hitter in all other ways would OPS far higher with 81 games in CBP rather than 81 in DS.

 

Utley's CAREER OPS+ is 128...and this includes his 1st 2 years, where he was mediocre; if I were to include his stats from his 3rd year on (since Utley began his career at a younger age than Uggla), it wouldn't even be close.

 

Erick, time played in MLB is a significant factor. The incompetance of the Arizona Diamond backs as regards Dan Uggla should not be a knock on Dan. The more MLB pitching he sees, the more walks he draws and the more extra base hits he generates. Doubles and walks are clear indicators of improvement, and Dan is getting both at a pretty good rate. Not signing Dan is a foolish move. Period.

 

 

If you put Uggla's OPS+ since he's been in big leagues, and compare 'em to Utley's in that same span, it's not even close.

 

Btw, OPS+ factors ballparks in, as well...so the CBP excuse wouldn't work for the stat, either.

 

And I think it would be "foolish" to give Uggla a contract...fact is, he's still under club control for a couple more years...by the time, he's asking for a contract, he'll be what? 29, 30 years old? I don't want Uggla for 5 years at that age. I'd rather sign Hermida, who will just be hitting his prime, at that time.

And away from CBP with the years in question

 

2005: .914

2006: .847

2007: .886

 

Yes, there's a difference between hitting at DS and hitting at CBP, I already agreed with that, but not to the extent you're talking about.

If Uggla doesn't deserve a contract (doesn't have to be 5 years) then Hermida doesn't deserve a long-term contract.

 

Forget how Uggla compares to other second-basemen. Forget his rookie & sophomore stats. Forget all of that and take a good look at Uggla throughout this year. Make this year the deciding factor if he's worthy of a new contract.

People have the ability to refine at any age. I don't see why that would be out of reach for Uggla. He can improve his defense. He can improve his bat. He ain't gonna be perfect, but if the good out-weighs the bad by a nice amount then he should be first-in-line for a contract consideration. Thats all. I just wanna make it clear that he should be the most deserving if he pans out this year. Not Hermida, unless he sums up some nice numbers and becomes a play-maker. Even then, I'd wait to see if he could do it on his following year as well.

 

The Marlins should sign no one if they're worried about age. They should also forget locking up potential. Let them first show-up in more than one way. Hermida can wait if he's so special.

If Uggla doesn't deserve a contract (doesn't have to be 5 years) then Hermida doesn't deserve a long-term contract.

 

Forget how Uggla compares to other second-basemen. Forget his rookie & sophomore stats. Forget all of that and take a good look at Uggla throughout this year. Make this year the deciding factor if he's worthy of a new contract.

People have the ability to refine at any age. I don't see why that would be out of reach for Uggla. He can improve his defense. He can improve his bat. He ain't gonna be perfect, but if the good out-weighs the bad by a nice amount then he should be first-in-line for a contract consideration. Thats all. I just wanna make it clear that he should be the most deserving if he pans out this year. Not Hermida, unless he sums up some nice numbers and becomes a play-maker. Even then, I'd wait to see if he could do it on his following year as well.

 

The Marlins should sign no one if they're worried about age. They should also forget locking up potential. Let them first show-up in more than one way. Hermida can wait if he's so special.

 

 

a) Why would I forget his first 2 years, and just look at 1 hot month of baseball? ...I guess we signed the wrong guy b/c right now, Uggla is doing better than Hanley (yet, we all know, Hanley is the better offensive player).

 

b) He's 28. Your defense only gets worse the more you age. Why would his range get better as he gets older?

 

c) Have you ever seen Hermida's home/road splits from last year? It's no secret the guy was 2 completely different hitters...since we're leaving our trash football stadium, and going into a new 1 by 2011, I'd expect Hermida to only get better.

 

d) Not every player develops like Hanley Ramirez. Hermida is 24 years old; at the age of 24, Uggla was in the minor leagues. Meanwhile, Hermida has already proven to be a professional hitter, who's only getting better and better (as a hitter).

 

e) Since last year's All-Star Break, Hermida's been, arguably, our best offensive player.

 

f) For those that don't like Hermida defensively in RF...you can always move him to LF (if Miguel Cabrera can be a respectable LF'er, Hermida would only be better...it's much easier than RF, and if you put in Hermida in LF, we would have an above average arm, at the very least, in LF).

 

g) The Marlins have financial problems when you compare 'em to other teams; why not sign a player who's 4 years younger? A guy who's already proven to be solid, and was once the #1 prospect in all of baseball?

Instead of Uggla who we already have a replacement for (Coghlan)?

 

Do you seriously want to see Dan Uggla till he's 33, 34, 35?? What is SO special about Dan Uggla?

Do you seriously want to see Dan Uggla till he's 33, 34, 35?? What is SO special about Dan Uggla?

See there's your problem.You seem to have a stupid belief that Uggla is just a mediocre player and that he will age uncommonley bad and early.Teams would love Uggla at second base for 5-6 more seasons after 2008.

 

Uggla has many years left kiddo :thumbup

What is SO special about Dan Uggla?

He's been the Marlins best run producer sans Miguel Cabrera since he's been here.

What is SO special about Dan Uggla?

He's been the Marlins best run producer sans Miguel Cabrera since he's been here.

 

 

b/c he's had the MOST opportunities, I'd bet.

If we're going by this (clutch run producer), the answer is Josh Willingham.

 

The only special thing about Uggla is his power (for his position).

Coghlan doesn't have the power Uggla has, but all scouting reports indicate for a better average, better .OBP, and more speed for Coghlan.

 

Coghlan, once again, is still young.

 

Even if Coghlan doesn't give us half of what Uggla gives us in power, does this team really "need" power? Hitting HR's is what this team excels at.