I don't care what happens to Jeremy Hermida. Not at all. I actually hate her, and will continue to hate her as long as she continues to be a complete moron in right field. The only other Marlin I have ever HATED was Miguel Olivo. If a guy is going to be complete garbage on defense- he had better be a great hitter. Cabrera got a pass from me for that reason. Hermida would have to hit .330 with 30+ homeruns to make up for her defensive ineptitude. She can hit alright when she isn't broken, but I can't stand the way I feel when a routine fly ball is sent in her direction. On the other hand- I love Dan Uggla and would love to see him here for another 5 years. He is very underrated defensively, and is a much better hitter than most people give him credit for. And Uggla has proven to be durable. I have always maintained the same stance on both players and it will not change. Most of you don't like what I say, but at least I am consistent, unlike half of you who bash Uggla until he starts hitting like a crazy person. Hermida gets hot sometimes and I still can't stand her, because I know that soon enough she will snowcone a flyball, or make an ill-timed idiotic slide for a ball and allow a single to become a triple. I have never seen a person SLIDE so often for no reason on a baseball field. Next person who tells me I look just like Jeremy Hermida is going to get a mouth full of fist too.

 

Anyone who wants to show me Uggla's zone ratings and all that stuff, go ahead and waste your time. I won't pay attention to them. I'm not a sabermetrics nerd; I can use my eyeballs and cognitive skills to determine how good a player is.

Your ridiculous ad hominem attack on Hermida makes you look like an ass.

I wish the fish would lock up Uggla. You really can't ask more from that kid and if need be you can move him to 3rd.

 

and i'm tired of the bunch who just keep beating around the bush to "sell high" ... thats the mentality of this team and it just needs to stop at one point. If you can get talent for Uggla than you can also get talent for Coughlan.

Hanley, Jacobs and Uggla are the players we need to build around.Uggla could move to third and Coghlan to second.

It's pretty hard to get so much wrong, in so little space.

 

1. Hanley, Maybin, all of the pitching depth, Hermida, and then Uggla/Coghlan, is what we need to build around. I'm deferring to Coghlan too, because the players in front of the 2B are going to cost a lot of money to retain, and "paying Uggla" versus "playing Coghlan and getting 2 premium prospects" is a better idea.

2. Jacobs is nowhere near a player you build around. Career .829 OPS at 27 years old, horrible defensively, and an injury liability. Awesome. He isn't going to slug .600 forever. The Marlins could easily, easily, replace him by signing a Gonzo/Boone/Helms FA every year, and supplanting that with Gaby Sanchez next year, and if he doesn't work out, Logan Morrison 1-2 years later. And if he doesn't work out, maybe you have Stanton developing. 1B is not a position of need in this organization. It's easy to find adequacy in free agency, and we have young guys.

3. If the team does retain Uggla and Coghlan to play the infield at the same time, you would play Coghlan at 3B. He was moved to 2B because he doesn't have the slugging potential to end up at 3B longterm. Dan can barely field 2B, it would only be worse farther across the diamond.

 

Another thing that is perpetually wrong on the board is Hermida's defense. He rates pretty average and not horrible defensively. His 'mistakes' are just amazingly horrible looking, so it gives the perception he is worse than he really is. Hermida is absolutely not a liability out there. He drives me nuts too (i.e., where is the BB rate? I hope this is a sample size fluke), but he gets way to much crap for his defense.

 

Why? Just for the sake of selling high? Maybe we should just trade EVERYONE after their best season. Yeah, that's a REAL good way to stay competitive and build a fan base with the new stadium coming around. Hey, I bet we can get a lot for Hanley Ramirez, so let's trade him too. This kind of thinking really disappoints me.

 

No, because Uggla is not the type of player who ages well and giving him a longterm contract will back fire a few years down the road, where a player like Hanley is a safe bet to continue production. Uggla is also 28 besides a skill set argument. It will never be better for him, than right now. Why in god's name would you give him money at his peak? People in this thread are citing 5-7 year Longoria type deals. That would be so atrocious with Uggla. He is going to come down hard at some point, it looks like we have a solid alternative in Coghlan, could use Uggla in trade to fill other holes (catcher, third base!), and it would be eating up unnecessary money we could put to more efficient use to see who turns out to be the best players of Hermida, Maybin, A. Miller, Volstad, Olsen, etc. Those players are young, are going to be entering their prime soon, and have a resume where you expect production spikes. None of that is apparent with Uggla, who when the stadium gets here will be in his decline for sure. Realize we are still on a budget even with Hanley getting the dough. We still need to be very careful with payroll for 3 years, before being able to sign luxuries. Dan is ridiculous right now, but you can't overlook who he is, and what he brings, and make wild deals just because some other guy on the team got paid. It's fantastic he is a perpetual overachiever and is defying logic with his XBH rate, moving down the order and slugging more, etc, but at the end of the day he is still just a nice piece, but not something that you can't replace. He is not a 1.000 OPS hitter. Take advantage of the situation. Coghlan, prospects, money going other places versus paying Uggla, is an easy argument. The fact that we can sell high on Uggla after this season, makes it even better. It has nothing to do with creating a climate of trading a guy after their best season. Uggla just happens to be hitting. He was going to get traded within a year anyways, so it is really not a selling high issue. I'm not saying take the best deal possible, that is obviously counter intuitive and unnecessary, but when the right deal presents itself, take it. This also goes for Gregg, Willingham, Jacobs, Cantu, J. Miller, Mitre, and maybe even Olsen. We literally don't need those guys to set up a long term contender, even if they are solid players. It's not going to be a big deal when we trade all or most of those guys this offseason, even if the media and everyday fans find it baffling. Building a team that will peak at the same time is the priority. We are not going to be a legit contender until the AA class of pitchers, Johnson, Anibal, and others, make it to the roster. Also, you do realize they just traded Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis, and are now better short and long term. It's about winning, and we don't need to buy out Uggla to do it longterm. A buyout would be foolish, in a Carlos Pena kind of way.

The only way i'm buying a Marlins jersey is if they lock up Uggla to a 5-7 year deal. Nuff said.

The only way i'm buying a Marlins jersey is if they lock up Uggla to a 5-7 year deal. Nuff said.

 

So... never then?

I would have to agree with the lock Uggla talks. Uggla can play 3rd base. Mind you, he played it a bit in the minors. Then Coghlan can be brought up. Everyone is happy. Uggla has been rakin' since he's been with us and brings us straight up power as well as a pretty good defensive glove. You guys would be nuts to not consider locking him up long term. He's a solid solid 2B with potential to play 3rd.

I would have to agree with the lock Uggla talks. Uggla can play 3rd base. Mind you, he played it a bit in the minors. Then Coghlan can be brought up. Everyone is happy. Uggla has been rakin' since he's been with us and brings us straight up power as well as a pretty good defensive glove. You guys would be nuts to not consider locking him up long term. He's a solid solid 2B with potential to play 3rd.

 

Uggla's arm isn't suitable for 3B... and, as Lou said, he's currently in his prime... why would you lock him up "long term" when he'll be in decline in 2-3 seasons... Uggla's "pretty good defensive glove" (as opposed to his offensive glove?) is average as a 2B, meaning probably below average for 3B. His best value is at 2B.

I can't believe some of you guys. Some of you people speak of uggla like if he was the average second baseman out there, this guy has been raking ever since he hit the majors with us. Why does he have to get traded to make room for Coghlan who is just "potential"....Wow unbelievable. Same with Jake, why does he have to go for Gaby, just cuz he's home-grown??? get the f outta here. :banghead

 

 

Uggla had a terrible year last year, and is inconsistent, with no further potential.

Hermida has shown to have a better .OBP than Uggla...and Hermida hasn't even hit his prime, yet.

 

We CAN'T sign everyone.

We CAN'T sign everyone.

 

but you could sign a player or two once in a while.

 

 

it would kinda nice

Uggla had a terrible year last year, and is inconsistent, with no further potential.

Hermida has shown to have a better .OBP than Uggla...and Hermida hasn't even hit his prime, yet.

 

We CAN'T sign everyone.

 

Uggla still OPS'd over .800, which is great for a "terrible" year... but yes, he's reached his ceiling, he is as good offensively as he will be...

 

It's not so much just Hermida having a better OBP, but just a better "Eye" in general, which will give him better contact than most anyways...

 

And yes... we CAN'T sign everyone anyways, absolutely right...

 

But the argument against Hermida is that it's a risk/reward situation right now, he's proved to not be able to maintain health, which lowers his cost, but even as freak as those injuries are, if they prove to be the norm, the contract is frowned upon.

 

As for NS's comments, the reason you "sell high" on guys like Uggla and Jacobs if you're in the Marlins shoes is that our cost-constraints force us to defer major costs until we're actually collecting revenue from the stadium. Sure we just signed Hanley, but we can't afford to throw money at everyone, we're not the Mets/Yankees/Red Sox... so, by selling high on guys like Uggla, we have more cost control when we get into our stadium.

 

Also, for all these people giving Gaby and Coghlan a hard time, our scouts that tout these guys are the same people that said we should get Uggla and Jacobs... they know talent and can recognize it's usefulness for us.

in 41 games uggla has 30 rbis, 13 homers, and a 1.062 ops

and he plays second base

 

why do you guys act like he's so disposable?

...and for all of you saying keep Uggla, as your "future 3B..."

a) once again, Uggla is NOT THAT young.

b) Matt Dominguez, anyone?

in 41 games uggla has 30 rbis, 13 homers, and a 1.062 ops

and he plays second base

 

why do you guys act like he's so disposable?

 

A) He's in his prime

-- 1) He's not going to get much better, if at all

-- 2) He's very streaky/inconsistent

B) He'll be expensive

-- 1) We don't have a ton of money

C) If we can use Uggla to fill in holes at C/3B why not?

-- 1) Finding a quality C to supplant Rabelo/Treanor would be huge (Maybe, as outlandish as it is, trade him to SEA for Jeff Clement, but there's no validity to this)

-- 2) Matt Dominguez is our only real 3B guy in the minors (Gaby Sanchez could be argued... but not really) so bringing in a ML ready guy that can play some defense is also huge

All I'm gonna say is that Uggla is the most deserving of a contract right now. I'd rather hold off on signing anyone long-term, but if we were going in that direction Uggla should be at the front of the line.

 

I'm not gonna all of a sudden rely on fortune-telling with some of these other players and prospects. Hermida needs to break-out before any thought of signing him long. Our prospects will be hard-pressed trying to match what Uggla has been doing for us.

While I do agree that Uggla is proving himself and swaying my opinion as to whether we should keep him or sell high, someone needs to tell Israel Gutierrez that there are more hitting stats besides HR and RBI's, namely, AVG and K's. It's ridiculous to say that Uggla is clearly produced more than Braun, Tulowitzki or Longoria. By the way, Uggla is in his third full season, while those other guys have all played around one full season or less.

 

Or more useful stats than any of those in OBP and SLG.

Another thing that is perpetually wrong on the board is Hermida's defense. He rates pretty average and not horrible defensively. His 'mistakes' are just amazingly horrible looking, so it gives the perception he is worse than he really is. Hermida is absolutely not a liability out there. He drives me nuts too (i.e., where is the BB rate? I hope this is a sample size fluke), but he gets way to much crap for his defense.

Are you serious? Not a liability on defense? Of course he is. He may rate average, but he's horrible. Defensive stats don't work nearly as well as offensive stats. I recall a months long discussion that I had with a member regarding Lowell vs. Cabs at third. He had every defensive stat in his favor that showed Cabs was better. My response was "use you freakin' eyes". Hermida:

1. Can not consistently even take the proper route towards the ball. It's just a matter of time before a ball hits him, ala Canseco. Or g-d forbid he hurts a teammate.

2. He's got a good arm, but he too often throws to the wrong place

3. He's flat-out a mental case out there. His past monumental mistakes have him scared now, to the point where he can't commit to a dive when he should, or commit to a jumping attempt, when he should. It's gonna' be a long time for him to get things even average on defense.

Offensively, he's fine. I hope the defensive miscues haven't affected his plate approach. Like he's trying to make up for his defense, thus the lack of patience and walks. Let's hope that this is just a statistical small sample size fluke.

Hermida gets hot sometimes and I still can't stand her, because I know that soon enough she will snowcone a flyball, or make an ill-timed idiotic slide for a ball and allow a single to become a triple. I have never seen a person SLIDE so often for no reason on a baseball field.

 

:lol

 

Couldn't help but laugh, cause it's true.

Hanley, Jacobs and Uggla are the players we need to build around.Uggla could move to third and Coghlan to second.

It's pretty hard to get so much wrong, in so little space.

 

1. Hanley, Maybin, all of the pitching depth, Hermida, and then Uggla/Coghlan, is what we need to build around. I'm deferring to Coghlan too, because the players in front of the 2B are going to cost a lot of money to retain, and "paying Uggla" versus "playing Coghlan and getting 2 premium prospects" is a better idea.

 

 

Awesome! Maybin and Coghlan haven't proven to amount to ANYTHING in the major leagues and already you want to build the team around them. Maybin hasn't even shown he can hit at the MINOR league level. Yeah, but let's plan around him anyhow. Hermida's numbers haven't even been that great and people want to sign him long term. Yeah there's room for improvement, but he's also a horrible outfielder, and what if he DOESN'T improve at the plate? He's a guy you need to hit 30+ home runs and I am just not seeing it. He needs to have that kinda year before you even THINK about signing him long term.

 

Do you realize how many teams would jump to sign Dan Uggla? Just because the Marlins haven't traditionally kept "older" players in recent years doesn't mean you should be paranoid to do so now. And I am laughing at the guy who says you can replace Mike Jacobs with Aaron Boone or Wes Helms, that is just retarded. Jacobs isn't paid to get on base, he's paid to hit the ball a long ways and drive in runs, and so far he's doing that better than all but one person on the team.

We should try to sign Uggla to a long-term contract - one that results in nothing more than 5-6 mil/yr. He is too much offense to let go, IMO. And the reasons you (anti-uggla long term people) are giving why we shouldn't sign him, are the same reasons that I think could be used in contract negotiations and maybe encourage him to sign a discounted contract. If we have to pay him more than a reasonable amount of money as determined by the FO I have no problem with trading him away for prospects - although I doubt the reward would be that great considering the same reasons you all don't want to sign him long-term.

 

With that said, I think contracts should be given to: Hanley, Uggla, Hermida, and hopefully when Maybin gets good him too :thumbup

 

Willingham and Jacobs would be there too if they weren't so injury-prone.

Maybin hasn't even shown he can hit at the MINOR league level. Yeah, but let's plan around him anyhow.

 

Yeah you're right. Maybin hasn't proved he can hit at the minor league level. He's only posted a .299/.393/.477 in 836 minor league at-bats while being younger than the national drinking age.

 

Maybin's only problem is his plate discipline. He K's nearly twice as much as he walks--he definitely needs to fix that. But I wouldn't go as far as saying he hasn't proven anything at the minor league level. That would be a false statement.

It is so hard to believe that so many don't have a clue about how special Jeremy Hermida is as a ballplayer if Beinfest would put him on the trade market at least 20 teams would start a bidding war for him. He isn't going anywhere so lock him up now. Uggla has been great for us but unfortunately the most he could aspire to recieve would be a 3 year deal. I love the guy but that is the reality of baseball. Uggla is such a classy guy that if offered a 3 year deal he would sign it with his eyes closed. He is living his dream when no one believed in him Beinfest picked him up He will never be about money, not with the Marlins. I would luv to see Uggla be a version of Hojo for us at 3rd base. He might be better than Hojo except he will never steal bases like Hojo.(Hojo=Howard Johnson played 3rd base for 86 Mets) As far as I am concerned Uggla can stay a Marlin as long as he wants to play baseball.

We should try to sign Uggla to a long-term contract - one that results in nothing more than 5-6 mil/yr. He is too much offense to let go, IMO. And the reasons you (anti-uggla long term people) are giving why we shouldn't sign him, are the same reasons that I think could be used in contract negotiations and maybe encourage him to sign a discounted contract. If we have to pay him more than a reasonable amount of money as determined by the FO I have no problem with trading him away for prospects - although I doubt the reward would be that great considering the same reasons you all don't want to sign him long-term.

 

With that said, I think contracts should be given to: Hanley, Uggla, Hermida, and hopefully when Maybin gets good him too :thumbup

 

Willingham and Jacobs would be there too if they weren't so injury-prone.

 

If Uggla is willing to take a big discount, Im fine with him staying for a couple more years... but the fact is, our team functions by maximizing the value of players and trading them to get the most in return... and we have to play like that until we are actually in the new stadium... it's the way it is

I don't understand this attitude of constantly wanting to trade everyone. Yeah I realize the Marlins can't afford to pay players like the Yankees or Red Sox.

 

But at the same time, you won't win anything if you are constantly developing players and trading them at their peak years. Do you want to be mediocre every year that this team exists? I mean for all the hype that this team has received about developing young players and identifying talent in the last few years, they are still nowhere even close to winning anything. I don't want to be the farm system team for the rest of major league baseball.

 

It can't just be Hanley + a bunch of ever changing rookies and prospects. You simply won't win this way. The 2003 team was mostly veterans with a few rookies (Cabrera and Willis).

If I was the one in charge of the marlins maybe I would consider buying out Uggla's arbitration years and get a club option for a year after that(that would be the longest contract i would offer Uggla) , but Uggla and jacobs etc are not clearly great players who you must lock up to win. I think we have viable alternatives in the minors in a year or two and despite the fact we have started well the core guys from the 2006 team defensively on balance are below average , Jacobs , Willingham , Uggla , Hermida , you can't have them all in the field and expect to have a championship level defense

Someone needs to explain to me how Hermida deserves a long-term contract more than Uggla as of right now. I like Hermida's bat but...

 

Oh and for all the people who keep saying Uggla has reached his full potential or has already topped off, you guys make it sound like he has a short ceiling or something. His may be in his prime, but he sure as hell is playing great. What more can you ask of him. Even his defense has improved from past years. I would imagine this is the kind of stuff you would want from someone in his prime cause it's more than satisfying. His age should be the only concern.