August 11, 200818 yr A Phillies fan said this too me and he is somewhat on the spot he said the Marlins had 5# 2's While I don't agree that all 5 are # 2's I don't think we really have a really strong pitcher that you can call an ace the closest one to it would have to be Nolasco though. That being said Josh Johnson has pitched great. Currently, I would agree with him. Volstad is a 2 guy at best right now, the rest are all 2 guys. That said, I would take a rotation full of #2 guys any day of the week.
August 11, 200818 yr A Phillies fan said this too me and he is somewhat on the spot he said the Marlins had 5# 2's While I don't agree that all 5 are # 2's I don't think we really have a really strong pitcher that you can call an ace the closest one to it would have to be Nolasco though. That being said Josh Johnson has pitched great. Currently, I would agree with him. Volstad is a 2 guy at best right now, the rest are all 2 guys. That said, I would take a rotation full of #2 guys any day of the week. Also we have Miller and Tucker in the minors right now, both with the stuff and potential to be a future #1 guy.
August 11, 200818 yr A Phillies fan said this too me and he is somewhat on the spot he said the Marlins had 5# 2's While I don't agree that all 5 are # 2's I don't think we really have a really strong pitcher that you can call an ace the closest one to it would have to be Nolasco though. That being said Josh Johnson has pitched great. Currently, I would agree with him. Volstad is a 2 guy at best right now, the rest are all 2 guys. That said, I would take a rotation full of #2 guys any day of the week. Also we have Miller and Tucker in the minors right now, both with the stuff and potential to be a future #1 guy. JJ is doing better than he was before he got injured He'll be the ace (hopefully) for years to come
August 11, 200818 yr JJ is doing better than he was before he got injured He'll be the ace (hopefully) for years to come He's not doing better than 2006. His ERA is only a little higher but he is still putting a ton of guys on base. He's given up more hits than innings pitched. I'd like to see him get his WHIP lower before I anoint him anything.
August 11, 200818 yr JJ is doing better than he was before he got injured He'll be the ace (hopefully) for years to come He's not doing better than 2006. His ERA is only a little higher but he is still putting a ton of guys on base. He's given up more hits than innings pitched. I'd like to see him get his WHIP lower before I anoint him anything. Correct... one of two things is gonna happen, all those baserunners are going to catch up to him via his ERA or he's going to cut them down... considering he put them on at an average rate in 2006, I'd say he's probably going to regress ERA-wise a little... he's another of our 5 number 2 starters
August 11, 200818 yr JJ is doing better than he was before he got injured He'll be the ace (hopefully) for years to come He's not doing better than 2006. His ERA is only a little higher but he is still putting a ton of guys on base. He's given up more hits than innings pitched. I'd like to see him get his WHIP lower before I anoint him anything. Well, using your logic... lets take that 3 run homer that easly hit off him on the last pitch he threw in that game at home and while we're at it lets take away a couple of the other HR's he gave up that should make his numbers better than he was doing in '06
August 11, 200818 yr JJ is doing better than he was before he got injured He'll be the ace (hopefully) for years to come He's not doing better than 2006. His ERA is only a little higher but he is still putting a ton of guys on base. He's given up more hits than innings pitched. I'd like to see him get his WHIP lower before I anoint him anything. Well, using your logic... lets take that 3 run homer that easly hit off him on the last pitch he threw in that game at home and while we're at it lets take away a couple of the other HR's he gave up that should make his numbers better than he was doing in '06 Not my logic at all and you know it. But fine, whatever. I guess he is awesome, 1.418 WHIP and all.
August 11, 200818 yr JJ is doing better than he was before he got injured He'll be the ace (hopefully) for years to come He's not doing better than 2006. His ERA is only a little higher but he is still putting a ton of guys on base. He's given up more hits than innings pitched. I'd like to see him get his WHIP lower before I anoint him anything. Well, using your logic... lets take that 3 run homer that easly hit off him on the last pitch he threw in that game at home and while we're at it lets take away a couple of the other HR's he gave up that should make his numbers better than he was doing in '06 How is that using his logic? Rabb's pointing out that Josh Johnson allows more hits than innings pitched... that means AT LEAST one runner per inning... right now that means he's getting lucky and getting the subsequent outs... pitchers with WHIPs of 1.4 and above typically don't sustain ERAs of 3.19... their ERAs tend to be around 3.8-4.2 Your "using Rabb's logic" is cherry picking runs to take off his ERA, which makes no sense
August 11, 200818 yr JJ is doing better than he was before he got injured He'll be the ace (hopefully) for years to come He's not doing better than 2006. His ERA is only a little higher but he is still putting a ton of guys on base. He's given up more hits than innings pitched. I'd like to see him get his WHIP lower before I anoint him anything. Well, using your logic... lets take that 3 run homer that easly hit off him on the last pitch he threw in that game at home and while we're at it lets take away a couple of the other HR's he gave up that should make his numbers better than he was doing in '06 How is that using his logic? Rabb's pointing out that Josh Johnson allows more hits than innings pitched... that means AT LEAST one runner per inning... right now that means he's getting lucky and getting the subsequent outs... pitchers with WHIPs of 1.4 and above typically don't sustain ERAs of 3.19... their ERAs tend to be around 3.8-4.2 Your "using Rabb's logic" is cherry picking runs to take off his ERA, which makes no sense lucky? u serious? have u ever thought to think that he just kept his composure and got himself out of jams. That is what aces do, they get out of jams. He just came back from a serious injury. In 2006 his ERA was around 2.88 I believe. He is next years ace of this staff, he is pitching the way he is supposed to. He is still adjusting to being back in the majors. No way u can say he is a 4.2 ERA kind of pitcher. He is getting the job done, and i believe the most important thing is that we are 6-0 in his starts, and all that matters is putting the W in the win column, and whenever JJ goes out and pitches he gives us the best chance to win
August 11, 200818 yr JJ is doing better than he was before he got injured He'll be the ace (hopefully) for years to come He's not doing better than 2006. His ERA is only a little higher but he is still putting a ton of guys on base. He's given up more hits than innings pitched. I'd like to see him get his WHIP lower before I anoint him anything. Well, using your logic... lets take that 3 run homer that easly hit off him on the last pitch he threw in that game at home and while we're at it lets take away a couple of the other HR's he gave up that should make his numbers better than he was doing in '06 How is that using his logic? Rabb's pointing out that Josh Johnson allows more hits than innings pitched... that means AT LEAST one runner per inning... right now that means he's getting lucky and getting the subsequent outs... pitchers with WHIPs of 1.4 and above typically don't sustain ERAs of 3.19... their ERAs tend to be around 3.8-4.2 Your "using Rabb's logic" is cherry picking runs to take off his ERA, which makes no sense lucky? u serious? have u ever thought to think that he just kept his composure and got himself out of jams. That is what aces do, they get out of jams. He just came back from a serious injury. In 2006 his ERA was around 2.88 I believe. He is next years ace of this staff, he is pitching the way he is supposed to. He is still adjusting to being back in the majors. No way u can say he is a 4.2 ERA kind of pitcher. He is getting the job done, and i believe the most important thing is that we are 6-0 in his starts, and all that matters is putting the W in the win column, and whenever JJ goes out and pitches he gives us the best chance to win I understood him fine, the point was, with a WHIP of 1.4-something, he's lucky to have an ERA under 3.8-something. Makes sense. Of course, a lot of baseball is luck related... with a few extra strikes called here or there, and a couple bloop hits that don't fall, his WHIP could be 1.2-something right now. The sample size is relatively small, he's only made about 8 starts so far? We'll know if he's truly all the way back over the next couple of months. He only allowed 7 baserunners in 7 innings last night, and only 5 hits in 6 innings the start before that (although he did give up 4 walks). There is improvement there, and they say control is the last thing to return after TJ surgery.
August 11, 200818 yr lucky? u serious? have u ever thought to think that he just kept his composure and got himself out of jams. That is what aces do, they get out of jams. He just came back from a serious injury. In 2006 his ERA was around 2.88 I believe. He is next years ace of this staff, he is pitching the way he is supposed to. He is still adjusting to being back in the majors. No way u can say he is a 4.2 ERA kind of pitcher. He is getting the job done, and i believe the most important thing is that we are 6-0 in his starts, and all that matters is putting the W in the win column, and whenever JJ goes out and pitches he gives us the best chance to win Aces don't post 1.4+ WHIPs... pitchers with 1.4ish WHIPs have higher ERAs because they put more runners on... therefore presenting more opportunities with RISP... At this rate, yes, Josh is getting lucky... JJ is the "flavor of the week" in terms of our pitchers... a month ago it was Nolasco, before that Olsen and then Hendrickson... Is he good? Absolutely... is he an ace? No... Aces are Brandon Webb, Jake Peavy, Roy Halladay, Johan Santana... Anointing a pitcher an ace because he goes 6-0 is very superficial and very knee-jerk...
August 11, 200818 yr JJ's stuff looks better than it did before the injury. Once he has more games under his belt, I think you'll see the number of hitters getting on base going down. And one thing we shouldn't forget is during the 2006 sesason - there were times when JJ would not have his best stuff and got himself into some tight situations. However he almost always managed to pitch himself out of those situations and put the team in a position to win. For my money, if there is a pitcher I needed on the mound in a must-win game, I'm going with JJ.
August 11, 200818 yr lucky? u serious? have u ever thought to think that he just kept his composure and got himself out of jams. That is what aces do, they get out of jams. He just came back from a serious injury. In 2006 his ERA was around 2.88 I believe. He is next years ace of this staff, he is pitching the way he is supposed to. He is still adjusting to being back in the majors. No way u can say he is a 4.2 ERA kind of pitcher. He is getting the job done, and i believe the most important thing is that we are 6-0 in his starts, and all that matters is putting the W in the win column, and whenever JJ goes out and pitches he gives us the best chance to win Aces don't post 1.4+ WHIPs... pitchers with 1.4ish WHIPs have higher ERAs because they put more runners on... therefore presenting more opportunities with RISP... At this rate, yes, Josh is getting lucky... JJ is the "flavor of the week" in terms of our pitchers... a month ago it was Nolasco, before that Olsen and then Hendrickson... Is he good? Absolutely... is he an ace? No... Aces are Brandon Webb, Jake Peavy, Roy Halladay, Johan Santana... Anointing a pitcher an ace because he goes 6-0 is very superficial and very knee-jerk... yes it is. In reality, the marlins don't have an ace. An ace has to maintain superiority over there opposition for a multitude of years, we do not have that guy. D-Train was becoming that guy before we traded him. I said JJ can become the ace of this staff Next Year. We have a ton of #2 like pitchers. U are saying that he has given up a ton of walks and hits and giving up few runs is lucky, I don't call it luck, throwing the pitch in the perfect spot to induce a double play and give up no damage is not lucky, it is good placement pitching, JJ may be wild so far, but he has shown me glimpses of what he did in 2006, I am not ready to call him the ace, and i am not saying he has been perfect thus far, but when u have won every single one of ur starts u must be doing something right. u will tell me that he has gotten tons of run support, but he has not let that get to his head during the start and did not feel so comfortable that he began to give up runs left and right and give up the lead, he has kept the other team under 4 runs in most of his starts and about 80% of his starts have been quality starts, which means he has given us the best chance to win thus far
August 11, 200818 yr JJ's stuff looks better than it did before the injury. Once he has more games under his belt, I think you'll see the number of hitters getting on base going down. And one thing we shouldn't forget is during the 2006 sesason - there were times when JJ would not have his best stuff and got himself into some tight situations. However he almost always managed to pitch himself out of those situations and put the team in a position to win. For my money, if there is a pitcher I needed on the mound in a must-win game, I'm going with JJ. I don't dispute him possibly being our best pitcher right now, I mean, I am quite partial to sinkerballers and Josh is the closest thing we have to that right now... but even in 2006, his WHIP was 1.3ish... and he posted a 3.10 ERA, he had 157 IP to back that up, but I still feel highly skeptical of any pitcher's ability to constantly put runners on and not get heavily dinged... something's gotta give, either he stops giving up baserunners, or he starts giving up runs... I'm pulling for the former as much as anyone here
August 11, 200818 yr JJ's stuff looks better than it did before the injury. Once he has more games under his belt, I think you'll see the number of hitters getting on base going down. And one thing we shouldn't forget is during the 2006 sesason - there were times when JJ would not have his best stuff and got himself into some tight situations. However he almost always managed to pitch himself out of those situations and put the team in a position to win. For my money, if there is a pitcher I needed on the mound in a must-win game, I'm going with JJ. I don't dispute him possibly being our best pitcher right now, I mean, I am quite partial to sinkerballers and Josh is the closest thing we have to that right now... but even in 2006, his WHIP was 1.3ish... and he posted a 3.10 ERA, he had 157 IP to back that up, but I still feel highly skeptical of any pitcher's ability to constantly put runners on and not get heavily dinged... something's gotta give, either he stops giving up baserunners, or he starts giving up runs... I'm pulling for the former as much as anyone here why does something have to give? He may just may be a guy who settles down later in innings, sure he may get guys on but if he constantly doesn't let them score, what is the big deal? I know u think that he will implode at some point, but why does he have to? He will obviously settle down and not let people get on base as much, but as long as he doesn't give up runs i could care less if he leaves the bases loaded every time
August 11, 200818 yr I've always thought JJ and Anibal were our best pitchers. Love JJ's composure out there.
August 11, 200818 yr yes it is. In reality, the marlins don't have an ace. An ace has to maintain superiority over there opposition for a multitude of years, we do not have that guy. D-Train was becoming that guy before we traded him. I said JJ can become the ace of this staff Next Year. We have a ton of #2 like pitchers. U are saying that he has given up a ton of walks and hits and giving up few runs is lucky, I don't call it luck, throwing the pitch in the perfect spot to induce a double play and give up no damage is not lucky, it is good placement pitching, JJ may be wild so far, but he has shown me glimpses of what he did in 2006, I am not ready to call him the ace, and i am not saying he has been perfect thus far, but when u have won every single one of ur starts u must be doing something right. u will tell me that he has gotten tons of run support, but he has not let that get to his head during the start and did not feel so comfortable that he began to give up runs left and right and give up the lead, he has kept the other team under 4 runs in most of his starts and about 80% of his starts have been quality starts, which means he has given us the best chance to win thus far D-Train was on the decline when we traded him, he was so far from an Ace when we traded him it wasn't even funny... his ERA went from 2.63 to 3.87 to 5.17 (with WHIPs of 1.1, 1.4 and 1.5 those years)... and now he's what we see today, struggling (for the most part) in Single A, is it heartbreaking? Yes... but to call him our ace is a little crazy... Also, if JJ can put on so many runners and induce GIDPs at will... why not just induce the groundball with no one on? Saves A LOT of time and trouble... Also, you say you're not ready to call him our ace.. You're ready to call JJ the ace as soon as next year... but now you're not ready to call him the ace.... ok... I'm not gonna reference anything about run support... what I will say though, is that you're doing AN AWFUL lot of mind reading here... telling me how he feels and what he thinks on the mound, when he's comfortable and such... Look, he hasn't pitched a lot, and he has a 1.4 WHIP... like it or not he's been lucky, I already mentioned that he could bring his WHIP down, but as it stands something's gotta give, the WHIP lowers or the ERA rises... one or the other
August 11, 200818 yr Sorry dude, but JJ seems to show a lot of composure on the mound, he walks the leadoff batter a lot, but then he settles down and gets out of the inning unharmed, i know u all care about WHIP like it was ur own baby, but ERA has to be the most important stat of all, and when he has an ERA under 4, that is telling me that nearly every time he gives us the best chance to win. Also, I said I was not willing to call him to ace of the staff yet, we have too many #2 pitchers, but i believe that he has the stuff to show us that he is the ace next year. Practically anybody on this staff can emerge as ace of the staff next year. It will all come in due time
August 11, 200818 yr I've always thought JJ and Anibal were our best pitchers. Love JJ's composure out there. Wow, never been a huge Anibal fan, I think this forum severely overrates him. His stuff is flat out unimpressive, and unless he has pinpoint control every time out there, he's never going to dominate. I don't know what people see in him... guessing some of it has to do with the no-hitter, which while awesome in itself, is one of the most overrated accomplishments for a pitcher. Greg Maddux and Pedro Martinez have never thrown no-hitters.
August 11, 200818 yr Sorry dude, but JJ seems to show a lot of composure on the mound, he walks the leadoff batter a lot, but then he settles down and gets out of the inning unharmed, i know u all care about WHIP like it was ur own baby, but ERA has to be the most important stat of all, and when he has an ERA under 4, that is telling me that nearly every time he gives us the best chance to win. Also, I said I was not willing to call him to ace of the staff yet, we have too many #2 pitchers, but i believe that he has the stuff to show us that he is the ace next year. Practically anybody on this staff can emerge as ace of the staff next year. It will all come in due time First of all... you're guessing again... "JJ SEEMS to show a lot of composure" That's all well and good, but it doesn't support your argument at all. It's just random, subjective baseball cliches. Secondly, what does "i know u all care about WHIP like it was ur own baby" even mean? I use ALL stats, however, ERA is highly reliant upon WHIP. ERA is the outcome to WHIP's processes... Here are a list of pitchers this year with WHIPS in the 1.4 range and respective ERAs: Roy Oswalt (1.41) 4.56 Tim Redding (1.43) 4.61 Brett Myers (1.43) 5.09 Aaron Harang (1.43) 5.17 Jason Marquis (1.44) 4.73 Ubaldo Jiminez (1.44) 3.86 And if you continued, you'd see the relation between WHIP and ERA... like I said... 3.8+ for a 1.4ish WHIP... Can JJ lower the WHIP, yes, he can, I don't know if he will, neither can you, we can hope... BUT, if he keeps up the 1.4 WHIP, he'll start allowing more runs, such is the nature of the beast... ERA is not the most important stat of all, ERA can be misleading... as I just showed you... You can never have "too many" number 2 pitchers, I don't even have to go into that And you closed with more baseball cliches
August 11, 200818 yr I personally don't like anointing aces... I mean, we've already done it... 3-4 times this year at one time or another... I would venture to say that I'd be comfortable saying we don't have one at all... we have 5 good pitchers that can give us a chance to win, that's all that matters... exactly, all of our pitchers have shown "ace like" stuff at one point or another. yep the all have ace material if they have there stuff working IMO Scott and JJ would be the ACE's of the staff with Anibal still having room to improve and ricky has to utilize his curve more oftern epsecially early in the game and Vlsatd has show great promise and is gonna be very good for year s to come but we are all forgeting who our real ace is gonna be if he becomes the player he can be Andrew Miller
August 11, 200818 yr JJ is doing better than he was before he got injured He'll be the ace (hopefully) for years to come He's not doing better than 2006. His ERA is only a little higher but he is still putting a ton of guys on base. He's given up more hits than innings pitched. I'd like to see him get his WHIP lower before I anoint him anything. Well, using your logic... lets take that 3 run homer that easly hit off him on the last pitch he threw in that game at home and while we're at it lets take away a couple of the other HR's he gave up that should make his numbers better than he was doing in '06 How is that using his logic? Rabb's pointing out that Josh Johnson allows more hits than innings pitched... that means AT LEAST one runner per inning... right now that means he's getting lucky and getting the subsequent outs... pitchers with WHIPs of 1.4 and above typically don't sustain ERAs of 3.19... their ERAs tend to be around 3.8-4.2 Your "using Rabb's logic" is cherry picking runs to take off his ERA, which makes no sense Thanks for explaining WHIP to me... jesus
August 11, 200818 yr PWG tell me where did i use any baseball cliches? also EVERY stat can be misleading, WHIP can be messed up. A guy can have a horrible umpire one day, not get any calls, and give up 9 walks that game and screw up his whip, or there can be a ton of bloop singles and in betweeners
August 11, 200818 yr JJ is doing better than he was before he got injured He'll be the ace (hopefully) for years to come He's not doing better than 2006. His ERA is only a little higher but he is still putting a ton of guys on base. He's given up more hits than innings pitched. I'd like to see him get his WHIP lower before I anoint him anything. Well, using your logic... lets take that 3 run homer that easly hit off him on the last pitch he threw in that game at home and while we're at it lets take away a couple of the other HR's he gave up that should make his numbers better than he was doing in '06 How is that using his logic? Rabb's pointing out that Josh Johnson allows more hits than innings pitched... that means AT LEAST one runner per inning... right now that means he's getting lucky and getting the subsequent outs... pitchers with WHIPs of 1.4 and above typically don't sustain ERAs of 3.19... their ERAs tend to be around 3.8-4.2 Your "using Rabb's logic" is cherry picking runs to take off his ERA, which makes no sense Thanks for explaining WHIP to me... jesus yea i remeber when erick go fish and rab tought me whip and all them crazy stats to bad stats dont count lmao Funnest Night Ever
August 11, 200818 yr PWG tell me where did i use any baseball cliches? also EVERY stat can be misleading, WHIP can be messed up. A guy can have a horrible umpire one day, not get any calls, and give up 9 walks that game and screw up his whip, or there can be a ton of bloop singles and in betweeners "Practically anybody on this staff can emerge as ace of the staff next year. It will all come in due time" "JJ seems to show a lot of composure on the mound, he walks the leadoff batter a lot, but then he settles down and gets out of the inning unharmed" But that's neither here nor there, I was just commenting that they didn't support your argument which seems to be, again and again, that Josh Johnson can maintain a 1.4 WHIP AND an ERA under 3.4... I don't know how to make myself any more clear... that is what I am saying... it is EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY unlikely that Josh Johnson finishes the season with a 1.4 WHIP and a 3.0-3.6 ERA... like EXTREMELY unlikely... if you look back, that's all I've been saying... just that, for some reason you keep arguing it, I showed you 5 examples of normally good pitchers with WHIPs of 1.4 and they all have crappy ERAs, did you not notice the pattern?
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