So are we making the bet?

 

I really don't care... if you want, but it doesn't matter. You still never got a word of what I was trying to say, and this whole topic was a waste of my time.

 

 

No, I understood what you were saying...it's just that we have different opinions...which isn't unheard of.

 

No you didn't, because its not an opinion. Its coming to a logical conclusion when presented with a certain set of parameters, like a higher WHIP = more likelihood of a higher ERA. I guess you could say its your opinion that you don't need to use logic, but meh, then I realllllly wasted my time.

 

Let me make sure this is clear to you, regardless of what you believe he has a right to his own opinion, which is exactly what this is, an opinion.

 

Fact: Josh Johnson pitches for the Marlins.

Opinion: WHIP is more important than ERA/ERA is more important than WHIP.

 

 

 

Fact: I said higher WHIP = more likelihood of a higher ERA, not ERA is more important than WHIP or vice versa

Fact: You misinterpreted what I said just like he did

Fact: I never questioned his right to have an opinion

Fact: I lied when I said I'm done with this thread. Damnit.

 

Opinion: This thread sucks.

 

What if...

 

John Doe: "I have seen some pitchers with high WHIP's, but I really believe that the good pitchers can still manage to keep their ERA low by getting out's when the pressure is on and the opposition has men on base."

 

What do you think Bob?

 

Bob Smith: "I disagree John, I think the pitchers with low WHIP's should also have a low ERA, it just makes more sense John.

 

Although the opinion might not make a lot of sense, it would still be an opinion.

 

Bob Smith: "Actually John you could be right, but it is more likely that his ERA will rise over time if his WHIP stays that high."

 

John Doe: "I don't care as long as we keep winning."

 

Bob Smith: "Yes John we all want to win, I'm just saying for him to keep his ERA low and increase our chances of winning, he'll probably have to lower his WHIP eventually."

 

John Doe: "I don't care as long as we keep winning."

 

Bob Smith: *kills himself*

 

 

So...you're suicidal now?

 

:lol

I never said JJ was the ace.

 

 

And neither did PWG; therefore, you're arguing with a guy who you are, basically, agreeing with. All he's saying is, pitchers with WHIP's in the 1.4's, have a much higher ERA (usually) than JJ, and over the course of the year, if JJ can't get his WHIP down to the 1.2's, for example, his ERA would be end up higher.

 

I don't see why it's lasted so long...it's just common sense.

 

 

Can anyone say thread of the year?

Can anyone say thread of the year?

 

I refuse to promote retardation on this board.

Can anyone say thread of the year?

 

I refuse to promote retardation on this board.

 

 

:blink:

JJ's stuff looks better than it did before the injury. Once he has more games under his belt, I think you'll see the number of hitters getting on base going down.

 

And one thing we shouldn't forget is during the 2006 sesason - there were times when JJ would not have his best stuff and got himself into some tight situations. However he almost always managed to pitch himself out of those situations and put the team in a position to win.

 

For my money, if there is a pitcher I needed on the mound in a must-win game, I'm going with JJ.

 

I don't dispute him possibly being our best pitcher right now, I mean, I am quite partial to sinkerballers and Josh is the closest thing we have to that right now... but even in 2006, his WHIP was 1.3ish... and he posted a 3.10 ERA, he had 157 IP to back that up, but I still feel highly skeptical of any pitcher's ability to constantly put runners on and not get heavily dinged... something's gotta give, either he stops giving up baserunners, or he starts giving up runs... I'm pulling for the former as much as anyone here

You have to take in cosideration that after JJ was called out the pitch in that rain delayed game by Joe G he was not the same pitcher and got hit pretty hard 2 or 3 games inflating his number up to that point before he finally went on IR

I've always thought JJ and Anibal were our best pitchers.

 

 

Love JJ's composure out there.

 

Wow, never been a huge Anibal fan, I think this forum severely overrates him. His stuff is flat out unimpressive, and unless he has pinpoint control every time out there, he's never going to dominate. I don't know what people see in him... guessing some of it has to do with the no-hitter, which while awesome in itself, is one of the most overrated accomplishments for a pitcher. Greg Maddux and Pedro Martinez have never thrown no-hitters.

Dude when Sanchez is on he can outpitch anyone, and i do mean anyone!

:lol You shouldn't taken my advice two pages back and not try to debate baseball with these clowns, Renteria. It's like trying to explain the color people to a blind man, you're just going to get more and more frustrated.

 

When does middle school start up again?

I personally don't like anointing aces... I mean, we've already done it... 3-4 times this year at one time or another... I would venture to say that I'd be comfortable saying we don't have one at all... we have 5 good pitchers that can give us a chance to win, that's all that matters...

 

exactly, all of our pitchers have shown "ace like" stuff at one point or another.

 

 

yep the all have ace material if they have there stuff working

IMO Scott and JJ would be the ACE's of the staff with Anibal still having room to improve and ricky has to utilize his curve more oftern epsecially early in the game and Vlsatd has show great promise and is gonna be very good for year s to come but we are all forgeting who our real ace is gonna be if he becomes the player he can be

 

Andrew Miller

IMO an ace is a pitcher that even when he doesnt have his best stuff battles and finds a way to win or at worse keep his team in the game

I personally don't like anointing aces... I mean, we've already done it... 3-4 times this year at one time or another... I would venture to say that I'd be comfortable saying we don't have one at all... we have 5 good pitchers that can give us a chance to win, that's all that matters...

 

exactly, all of our pitchers have shown "ace like" stuff at one point or another.

 

 

yep the all have ace material if they have there stuff working

IMO Scott and JJ would be the ACE's of the staff with Anibal still having room to improve and ricky has to utilize his curve more oftern epsecially early in the game and Vlsatd has show great promise and is gonna be very good for year s to come but we are all forgeting who our real ace is gonna be if he becomes the player he can be

 

Andrew Miller

IMO an ace is a pitcher that even when he doesnt have his best stuff battles and finds a way to win or at worse keep his team in the game

 

Your point?

I think he was trying to say Miller has the POTENTIAL to be an ace.

 

Miller's stuff is better than Anibal's, for sure.

:lol You shouldn't taken my advice two pages back and not try to debate baseball with these clowns, Renteria. It's like trying to explain the color people to a blind man, you're just going to get more and more frustrated.

 

When does middle school start up again?

 

 

Lol...

Just an example for everyone saying high WHIP is ok. Lets say WHIP is the mileage on your car, and ERA is your car's engine. Now lets say that the average guy changes his oil every 3 to 5 thousand miles. His engine (or ERA) runs fine. Now Joe Schmoe (or JJ if you will) only changes his oil (WHIP) every 10 thousand miles. His engine is still running fine, but the chances are much higher he will have engine problems.

 

That is the point. Sooner or later the high WHIP, or mileage, will catch up to Josh, and his engine's performance, or ERA, will be affected. If that doesn't make sense to you, all hope is lost.

 

The answer is to change the oil more often, or in Josh's case, lower his WHIP. Not to keep driving with high mileage, or high WHIP, and ruin your engine, or ERA.

huh?

Just an example for everyone saying high WHIP is ok. Lets say WHIP is the mileage on your car, and ERA is your car's engine. Now lets say that the average guy changes his oil every 3 to 5 thousand miles. His engine (or ERA) runs fine. Now Joe Schmoe (or JJ if you will) only changes his oil (WHIP) every 10 thousand miles. His engine is still running fine, but the chances are much higher he will have engine problems.

 

That is the point. Sooner or later the high WHIP, or mileage, will catch up to Josh, and his engine's performance, or ERA, will be affected. If that doesn't make sense to you, all hope is lost.

 

The answer is to change the oil more often, or in Josh's case, lower his WHIP. Not to keep driving with high mileage, or high WHIP, and ruin your engine, or ERA.

huh?

 

I'm not even going to try, this thread has run its course. It did serve a purpose, its shown me which people on this board absolutely do not understand baseball stats.

I personally don't like anointing aces... I mean, we've already done it... 3-4 times this year at one time or another... I would venture to say that I'd be comfortable saying we don't have one at all... we have 5 good pitchers that can give us a chance to win, that's all that matters...

 

exactly, all of our pitchers have shown "ace like" stuff at one point or another.

 

 

yep the all have ace material if they have there stuff working

IMO Scott and JJ would be the ACE's of the staff with Anibal still having room to improve and ricky has to utilize his curve more oftern epsecially early in the game and Vlsatd has show great promise and is gonna be very good for year s to come but we are all forgeting who our real ace is gonna be if he becomes the player he can be

 

Andrew Miller

IMO an ace is a pitcher that even when he doesnt have his best stuff battles and finds a way to win or at worse keep his team in the game

 

Your point?

I think he was trying to say Miller has the POTENTIAL to be an ace.

 

Miller's stuff is better than Anibal's, for sure.

Stuff only does not an Ace make, thhey alot of pitchers with great stuff but do not succeed

Your point?

I think he was trying to say Miller has the POTENTIAL to be an ace.

 

Miller's stuff is better than Anibal's, for sure.

Stuff only does not an Ace make, thhey alot of pitchers with great stuff but do not succeed

 

 

Key Word in my last post: Potential

Ok, I know I've said I'm done with this thread a couple of times, and Renteriaupthemiddle has too... and somewhere El Penguino is in pain, either from laughing, or from disappointment in someone putting themselves through this again.

 

Here's the breakdown everyone:

 

"JJ has officially reclaimed his spot as Ace of the rotation" - this is an opinionated (highly) statement, I disagreed with this statement based on the conventional baseball knowledge that "Ace" pitchers put up "Ace" numbers all the way around. Josh Johnson hasn't done this, THAT is a fact. Josh Johnson's WHIP is MEDIOCRE, THAT is a fact. How is it a fact? Mediocre pitchers have WHIPs of 1.4 (As I listed what seems AGES ago), Josh Johnson has a 1.4 WHIP, now, I never claimed Johnson was mediocre, but if Ace pitchers don't have 1.4 WHIPs and Johnson DOES than that means he is not pitching like an Ace.

 

Point Two: Anointing ANYBODY an ace after 1-2 seasons is HIGHLY disparaging to the other pitchers who have EARNED that title. Mark Fidrych had one OUTSTANDING season and then fell off the face of the map, he was NOT an ace. An Ace pitcher is one that has established himself as one that has low ERA, low WHIP, low walks, high K:BB ratios (even if they're not a strikeout pitcher they strikeout a LOT more than they walk, see: Maddux, Greg).

 

Point Three: Saying something is your opinion does not make it so, SEVERAL times I've clarified my point... which is a fact.... and several times it has been argued against. So, once again, here is my point: "Josh John has a high WHIP, Josh Johnson has a low ERA... these two stats correlate over 90% of the time, such that, pitchers with HIGH WHIPs almost always have HIGH ERAs and vice-versa... THEREFORE if Josh Johnson continues this trend of allowing MANY RUNNERS PER INNING HE PITCHED, these runners will start scoring... and it will be the result of bad luck, because Josh Johnson is human and is subject to such things. Once the runners start scoring, his ERA will rise accordingly.... HOWEVER if his WHIP lowers then his ERA becomes sustainable to the point where this type of debate isn't needed. So, as a result, our pitcher, Josh Johnson, is showing SIGNS of being on the verge of giving up runs at a much higher rate than he currently has... as a fan of Josh Johnson and the Florida Marlins, this alarms me, because it is a bad thing. If Johnson gives up more runs, we are LESS LIKELY to win games. If we win fewer games, we lower our chances at the playoffs.

 

The secondary argument to this is that you don't seem to worry about this ill-boding omen for a pitcher as being bad, but several of you have gone out and vilified Josh Willingham for "not holding HIMSELF accountable for the team's failures" which I find to be contradictory. You'll blame 1 guy for 9 guys' inability to "get the job done" on a given night, yet you will not say "Hmm, our pitcher is apparently very likely to start giving up more runs, that could be a bad thing"

 

Regardless of the analogy (and many have been given) every time they are the same... Something happens that is very likely a bad, bad thing (JJ likely to give up more runs) is preventable through certain recourse (in JJ's case, allowing fewer baserunners).

 

If the only counter argument was the opinion that "I think JJ will stop allowing baserunners as much and we'll be fine" I would agree completely, that makes sense, that is logical, that's a great thing for a fan to say... but the consistent counter-argument is "JJ can keep giving up these baserunners and get himself out of jams and keep the low ERA" that is NOT a good thing to say, because it is not logical and WILL result in more runs scored, regardless of luck or skill, more baserunners will result in more runs scored.

Ok, I know I've said I'm done with this thread a couple of times, and Renteriaupthemiddle has too... and somewhere El Penguino is in pain, either from laughing, or from disappointment in someone putting themselves through this again.

 

Here's the breakdown everyone:

 

"JJ has officially reclaimed his spot as Ace of the rotation" - this is an opinionated (highly) statement, I disagreed with this statement based on the conventional baseball knowledge that "Ace" pitchers put up "Ace" numbers all the way around. Josh Johnson hasn't done this, THAT is a fact. Josh Johnson's WHIP is MEDIOCRE, THAT is a fact. How is it a fact? Mediocre pitchers have WHIPs of 1.4 (As I listed what seems AGES ago), Josh Johnson has a 1.4 WHIP, now, I never claimed Johnson was mediocre, but if Ace pitchers don't have 1.4 WHIPs and Johnson DOES than that means he is not pitching like an Ace.

 

Point Two: Anointing ANYBODY an ace after 1-2 seasons is HIGHLY disparaging to the other pitchers who have EARNED that title. Mark Fidrych had one OUTSTANDING season and then fell off the face of the map, he was NOT an ace. An Ace pitcher is one that has established himself as one that has low ERA, low WHIP, low walks, high K:BB ratios (even if they're not a strikeout pitcher they strikeout a LOT more than they walk, see: Maddux, Greg).

 

Point Three: Saying something is your opinion does not make it so, SEVERAL times I've clarified my point... which is a fact.... and several times it has been argued against. So, once again, here is my point: "Josh John has a high WHIP, Josh Johnson has a low ERA... these two stats correlate over 90% of the time, such that, pitchers with HIGH WHIPs almost always have HIGH ERAs and vice-versa... THEREFORE if Josh Johnson continues this trend of allowing MANY RUNNERS PER INNING HE PITCHED, these runners will start scoring... and it will be the result of bad luck, because Josh Johnson is human and is subject to such things. Once the runners start scoring, his ERA will rise accordingly.... HOWEVER if his WHIP lowers then his ERA becomes sustainable to the point where this type of debate isn't needed. So, as a result, our pitcher, Josh Johnson, is showing SIGNS of being on the verge of giving up runs at a much higher rate than he currently has... as a fan of Josh Johnson and the Florida Marlins, this alarms me, because it is a bad thing. If Johnson gives up more runs, we are LESS LIKELY to win games. If we win fewer games, we lower our chances at the playoffs.

 

The secondary argument to this is that you don't seem to worry about this ill-boding omen for a pitcher as being bad, but several of you have gone out and vilified Josh Willingham for "not holding HIMSELF accountable for the team's failures" which I find to be contradictory. You'll blame 1 guy for 9 guys' inability to "get the job done" on a given night, yet you will not say "Hmm, our pitcher is apparently very likely to start giving up more runs, that could be a bad thing"

 

Regardless of the analogy (and many have been given) every time they are the same... Something happens that is very likely a bad, bad thing (JJ likely to give up more runs) is preventable through certain recourse (in JJ's case, allowing fewer baserunners).

 

If the only counter argument was the opinion that "I think JJ will stop allowing baserunners as much and we'll be fine" I would agree completely, that makes sense, that is logical, that's a great thing for a fan to say... but the consistent counter-argument is "JJ can keep giving up these baserunners and get himself out of jams and keep the low ERA" that is NOT a good thing to say, because it is not logical and WILL result in more runs scored, regardless of luck or skill, more baserunners will result in more runs scored.

 

Dude, get over yourself. I do understand what you are saying (as do many others) and I do agree with the WHIP/ERA correlation, however; that does not mean I agree with the overall vibe of this entire (8 page) thread. Just to reiterate more facts... Josh Johnson has recently returned from TJ surgery; He has only started in 6 games; The Marlins have recorded wins for each of his 6 starts. As a fan of the Marlins and a Josh Johnson fan my sole intent is to ride high on his success thus far and to hope that with each start he will bring his WHIP down, keep his ERA down, keep helping the team get more Ws... basically, do his job well. We have 5 young starting pitchers who are all doing well... none of them are veterans that we can say without a doubt deserve to be our Ace but many of them have the potential and what a great ride it has been and continues to be to see them all progress. This last week has been a good one for Josh... instead of spending 8 pages of over explaining what most of us already understand... why not give the guy some props. We all know that when he or any other of our starting pitchers doesn't perform well they will get a thread bashing like no other so why not show some love for the time being while pointing out that we hope he keeps helping us get Ws and that in the process his WHIP will decrease. In closing... Go Josh! WooHoo!

Ok, I know I've said I'm done with this thread a couple of times, and Renteriaupthemiddle has too... and somewhere El Penguino is in pain, either from laughing, or from disappointment in someone putting themselves through this again.

 

Here's the breakdown everyone:

 

"JJ has officially reclaimed his spot as Ace of the rotation" - this is an opinionated (highly) statement, I disagreed with this statement based on the conventional baseball knowledge that "Ace" pitchers put up "Ace" numbers all the way around. Josh Johnson hasn't done this, THAT is a fact. Josh Johnson's WHIP is MEDIOCRE, THAT is a fact. How is it a fact? Mediocre pitchers have WHIPs of 1.4 (As I listed what seems AGES ago), Josh Johnson has a 1.4 WHIP, now, I never claimed Johnson was mediocre, but if Ace pitchers don't have 1.4 WHIPs and Johnson DOES than that means he is not pitching like an Ace.

 

Point Two: Anointing ANYBODY an ace after 1-2 seasons is HIGHLY disparaging to the other pitchers who have EARNED that title. Mark Fidrych had one OUTSTANDING season and then fell off the face of the map, he was NOT an ace. An Ace pitcher is one that has established himself as one that has low ERA, low WHIP, low walks, high K:BB ratios (even if they're not a strikeout pitcher they strikeout a LOT more than they walk, see: Maddux, Greg).

 

Point Three: Saying something is your opinion does not make it so, SEVERAL times I've clarified my point... which is a fact.... and several times it has been argued against. So, once again, here is my point: "Josh John has a high WHIP, Josh Johnson has a low ERA... these two stats correlate over 90% of the time, such that, pitchers with HIGH WHIPs almost always have HIGH ERAs and vice-versa... THEREFORE if Josh Johnson continues this trend of allowing MANY RUNNERS PER INNING HE PITCHED, these runners will start scoring... and it will be the result of bad luck, because Josh Johnson is human and is subject to such things. Once the runners start scoring, his ERA will rise accordingly.... HOWEVER if his WHIP lowers then his ERA becomes sustainable to the point where this type of debate isn't needed. So, as a result, our pitcher, Josh Johnson, is showing SIGNS of being on the verge of giving up runs at a much higher rate than he currently has... as a fan of Josh Johnson and the Florida Marlins, this alarms me, because it is a bad thing. If Johnson gives up more runs, we are LESS LIKELY to win games. If we win fewer games, we lower our chances at the playoffs.

 

The secondary argument to this is that you don't seem to worry about this ill-boding omen for a pitcher as being bad, but several of you have gone out and vilified Josh Willingham for "not holding HIMSELF accountable for the team's failures" which I find to be contradictory. You'll blame 1 guy for 9 guys' inability to "get the job done" on a given night, yet you will not say "Hmm, our pitcher is apparently very likely to start giving up more runs, that could be a bad thing"

 

Regardless of the analogy (and many have been given) every time they are the same... Something happens that is very likely a bad, bad thing (JJ likely to give up more runs) is preventable through certain recourse (in JJ's case, allowing fewer baserunners).

 

If the only counter argument was the opinion that "I think JJ will stop allowing baserunners as much and we'll be fine" I would agree completely, that makes sense, that is logical, that's a great thing for a fan to say... but the consistent counter-argument is "JJ can keep giving up these baserunners and get himself out of jams and keep the low ERA" that is NOT a good thing to say, because it is not logical and WILL result in more runs scored, regardless of luck or skill, more baserunners will result in more runs scored.

 

Dude, get over yourself. I do understand what you are saying (as do many others) and I do agree with the WHIP/ERA correlation, however; that does not mean I agree with the overall vibe of this thread. Just to reiterate more facts... Josh Johnson has recently returned from TJ surgery; He has only started in 6 games; The Marlins have recorded wins for each of his 6 starts. As a fan of the Marlins and a Josh Johnson fan my sole intent is to ride high on his success thus far and to hope that with each start he will bring his WHIP down, keep his ERA down, keep helping the team get more Ws... basically, do his job well. We have 5 young starting pitchers who are all doing well... none of them are veterans that we can say without a doubt deserve to be our Ace but many of them have the potential and what a great ride it has been and continues to be to see them all progress. This last week has been a good one for Josh... instead of spending 8 pages of over explaining what most of us already understand... why not give the guy some props. We all know that when he or any other of our starting pitchers doesn't perform well they will get a thread bashing like no other so why not show some love for the time being while pointing out that we hope he keeps helping us get Ws and that in the process his WHIP will decrease. In closing... Go Josh! WooHoo!

 

 

You didn't understand a word he just said and attacked him for no reason. Good job.

You didn't understand a word he just said and attacked him for no reason. Good job.

 

No, you didn't understand a word of what I said. I did not attack him or anyone... I was referring to the overall vibe of the entire thread. Thanks and have a great day.

Dude, get over yourself. I do understand what you are saying (as do many others) and I do agree with the WHIP/ERA correlation, however; that does not mean I agree with the overall vibe of this entire (8 page) thread. Just to reiterate more facts... Josh Johnson has recently returned from TJ surgery; He has only started in 6 games; The Marlins have recorded wins for each of his 6 starts. As a fan of the Marlins and a Josh Johnson fan my sole intent is to ride high on his success thus far and to hope that with each start he will bring his WHIP down, keep his ERA down, keep helping the team get more Ws... basically, do his job well. We have 5 young starting pitchers who are all doing well... none of them are veterans that we can say without a doubt deserve to be our Ace but many of them have the potential and what a great ride it has been and continues to be to see them all progress. This last week has been a good one for Josh... instead of spending 8 pages of over explaining what most of us already understand... why not give the guy some props. We all know that when he or any other of our starting pitchers doesn't perform well they will get a thread bashing like no other so why not show some love for the time being while pointing out that we hope he keeps helping us get Ws and that in the process his WHIP will decrease. In closing... Go Josh! WooHoo!

 

Well the issue here is not with you and the others that DO understand, clearly this is a debate I wouldn't be having with you. 2 Posts and this is the first I've seen and you seem knowledgeable and such, but my issue is with people that not only DON'T understand, but see the facts in front of them and refuse to understand them for what they're worth. I've said several times that I'm rooting for JJ and I believe he can bring his numbers down. This isn't some "high and mighty" thing, this is more trying to combat willful ignorance to what's (possibly, and I've made that clear too) in front of you (not you, but the others arguing).

You didn't understand a word he just said and attacked him for no reason. Good job.

 

No, you didn't understand a word of what I said. I did not attack him or anyone... I was referring to the overall vibe of the entire thread. Thanks and have a great day.

 

 

The vibe of the thread was ruined when people twisted what PWG and others were saying just to argue with them over a point they never made. Its not his fault. You are only blaming him because his point is overall a negative towards Josh Johnson, although he has clarified every post by admitting if Josh can lower his WHIP, and that may be likely, he will keep the ERA down and prove himself an ace.

Dude, get over yourself. I do understand what you are saying (as do many others) and I do agree with the WHIP/ERA correlation, however; that does not mean I agree with the overall vibe of this entire (8 page) thread. Just to reiterate more facts... Josh Johnson has recently returned from TJ surgery; He has only started in 6 games; The Marlins have recorded wins for each of his 6 starts. As a fan of the Marlins and a Josh Johnson fan my sole intent is to ride high on his success thus far and to hope that with each start he will bring his WHIP down, keep his ERA down, keep helping the team get more Ws... basically, do his job well. We have 5 young starting pitchers who are all doing well... none of them are veterans that we can say without a doubt deserve to be our Ace but many of them have the potential and what a great ride it has been and continues to be to see them all progress. This last week has been a good one for Josh... instead of spending 8 pages of over explaining what most of us already understand... why not give the guy some props. We all know that when he or any other of our starting pitchers doesn't perform well they will get a thread bashing like no other so why not show some love for the time being while pointing out that we hope he keeps helping us get Ws and that in the process his WHIP will decrease. In closing... Go Josh! WooHoo!

 

Well the issue here is not with you and the others that DO understand, clearly this is a debate I wouldn't be having with you. 2 Posts and this is the first I've seen and you seem knowledgeable and such, but my issue is with people that not only DON'T understand, but see the facts in front of them and refuse to understand them for what they're worth. I've said several times that I'm rooting for JJ and I believe he can bring his numbers down. This isn't some "high and mighty" thing, this is more trying to combat willful ignorance to what's (possibly, and I've made that clear too) in front of you (not you, but the others arguing).

 

 

I've said many times I understood what you were saying...you just think that since I disagree with you, I dont understand.

I've said many times I understood what you were saying...you just think that since I disagree with you, I dont understand.

 

So you agree if JJ maintains a WHIP around 1.4, its likely he will eventually see his ERA rise up over 4, and he will not be the ace of this staff?

 

Forget that he may lower his WHIP and pitch more dominant, that has already been said to be a possibility... if he continues to pitch as he has so far, do you agree it will probably come back to bite him in the ass eventually, and he won't be an ace?

 

If the answer is no, you really haven't understood a word of what he said.