The point is, having 3 catchers before September = useless. There is a team need for another bullpen pitcher (especially since Pinto is struggling). Why carry 3 catchers? I think the only other team that does are the Mets (Schneider, Castro, Cancel).

 

Seriously though...it's not common, for a reason.

 

How common is it for a team to carry 13 pitchers? Last I looked (when Lo Duca was recalled) there were only 2 teams in the NL besides us carrying 13 pitchers. Since Pinto is struggling so badly and not contributing anything, if he has options left, why didn't we send him to AAA and DFA Hoover instead of DFA'ing Justin Miller? Then we could have 5 guys on the bench and have 7 relievers not named Pinto in the bullpen.

 

Ok, exactly.

Put one of the 3 catchers in the minors...call up someone like...perhaps, Andino.

 

Shut down Pinto for the season before things get worse, and call up a reliever.

 

That's my point.

 

This will be irrelevant next Monday, however, since rosters expand.

Lo Duca has been awsome since he was called up.

Ok, exactly.

Put one of the 3 catchers in the minors...call up someone like...perhaps, Andino.

 

Shut down Pinto for the season before things get worse, and call up a reliever.

 

That's my point.

 

This will be irrelevant next Monday, however, since rosters expand.

 

I hate Paul Lo Duca with a purple passion but if he's the best available hitter we had in the organization that doesn't strike out once every three times I could care less what position he plays. I'd rather have somebody available just to pinch-hit than have a 13th pitcher, especially if the 13th pitcher's primary purpose is to hide Pinto on the roster. This all assumes that Pinto has an option left, which by my count he does. But at this point, they won't burn an option on him for one week of another pitcher.

Ok, exactly.

Put one of the 3 catchers in the minors...call up someone like...perhaps, Andino.

 

Shut down Pinto for the season before things get worse, and call up a reliever.

 

That's my point.

 

This will be irrelevant next Monday, however, since rosters expand.

 

I hate Paul Lo Duca with a purple passion but if he's the best available hitter we had in the organization that doesn't strike out once every three times I could care less what position he plays. I'd rather have somebody available just to pinch-hit than have a 13th pitcher, especially if the 13th pitcher's primary purpose is to hide Pinto on the roster. This all assumes that Pinto has an option left, which by my count he does. But at this point, they won't burn an option on him for one week of another pitcher.

 

Obviously, you can't send down Lo Duca now. But...what about Treanor? Are you telling me Lo Duca couldn't have started today? I don't see the purpose of a 3rd catcher on a depth chart.

 

Also...Pinto isn't necessarily hiding. He's being used in mop-up work, as Hendrickson has moved his way up, pitching well, lately. Speaking of the pen...has anyone heard anything on Waechter?

Obviously, you can't send down Lo Duca now. But...what about Treanor? Are you telling me Lo Duca couldn't have started today? I don't see the purpose of a 3rd catcher on a depth chart.

 

Also...Pinto isn't necessarily hiding. He's being used in mop-up work, as Hendrickson has moved his way up, pitching well, lately.

 

You lost me. I thought you were just saying we should have 13 pitchers because Pinto is struggling so badly and now you're saying he has a role. If he has a role, and you're using the "best practices" argument to not having 3 catchers, why doesn't that apply to having 13 pitchers? Best practices indicates that the vast majority of teams don't carry 13 pitchers.

 

Forget that Lo Duca is a catcher. Are you saying you'd rather have 13 pitchers than a guy who is strictly available to pinch-hit, especially if it's a guy that is finally different than all our other hitters?

Im down for sending Treanor down. I love him but hes an automatic-out batting, its pathetic. Let's go Dukie-Baker the rest of the way.

Obviously, you can't send down Lo Duca now. But...what about Treanor? Are you telling me Lo Duca couldn't have started today? I don't see the purpose of a 3rd catcher on a depth chart.

 

Also...Pinto isn't necessarily hiding. He's being used in mop-up work, as Hendrickson has moved his way up, pitching well, lately.

 

You lost me. I thought you were just saying we should have 13 pitchers because Pinto is struggling so badly and now you're saying he has a role. If he has a role, and you're using the "best practices" argument to not having 3 catchers, why doesn't that apply to having 13 pitchers? Best practices indicates that the vast majority of teams don't carry 13 pitchers.

 

Forget that Lo Duca is a catcher. Are you saying you'd rather have 13 pitchers than a guy who is strictly available to pinch-hit, especially if it's a guy that is finally different than all our other hitters?

 

 

 

I'm saying we currently have 12 pitchers, right now. Pinto's job is to save the bullpen when the game is out of hand, at the moment.

 

If it was up to me right now...Treanor would get sent down for Andino (which would keep the 13 players, in tact).

...and Pinto would get shut down for the year (as I believe he's been overused). Call up a reliever (and you have your 12 pitchers).

 

I don't really believe in 13 pitchers, 3 catchers, etc.

13 position players + 12 pitchers.

 

I was just arguing with you saying that Pinto's current role is irrelevant.

I'm saying we currently have 12 pitchers, right now. Pinto's job is to save the bullpen when the game is out of hand, at the moment.

 

If it was up to me right now...Treanor would get sent down for Andino (which would keep the 13 players, in tact).

...and Pinto would get shut down for the year (as I believe he's been overused). Call up a reliever (and you have your 12 pitchers).

 

I don't really believe in 13 pitchers, 3 catchers, etc.

13 position players + 12 pitchers.

 

I was just arguing with you saying that Pinto's current role is irrelevant.

It looked like a couple of posts ago you were saying we should have an extra reliever and no Lo Duca since Pinto was struggling so badly. If my math is right, that would make 13 pitchers. Now you're saying you didn't want 13 pitchers. See why you lost me?

 

Anyways, I'm for shutting down Pinto and calling up a reliever. Like I said, if he has options left, I'd have sent him down a few weeks ago and kept Justin Miller.

 

I'm for shutting down Treanor as well and bringing up Andino, but it may have to be via the DL. I don't know if Treanor has any options left to be sent to the minors.

 

My point is that 5 bench players is better than 13 pitchers even if that 5th bench player is a 3rd catcher, especially since Lo Duca was probably the best available hitter we had in the organization that filled a role we desperately needed filled. Andino can't fill that role offensively.

When you have an offensive struggling team like we do... 3 catchers is not a problem if two of them can hit... look at today...

 

Treanor starts and in a late inning RBI situation you wanna use Lo Duca to pinch hit, we can do that only cause we have John Baker on the bench as well... they always "the manager never wants to use the backup catcher because he has to save for an emergency situation"...if we dont have Baker on the bench, we cant use Lo Duca in that 8th inning spot, and we thus wouldnt have gotten those two insurance runs in the 8th...

 

I understand that 3 catchers doesnt traditionally "make sense"...but on a team like the Marlins, why is the above situation so hard for people to accept? For the Marlins, it just makes sense to have 3 catchers right now...am I wrong?

When you have an offensive struggling team like we do... 3 catchers is not a problem if two of them can hit... look at today...

 

Treanor starts and in a late inning RBI situation you wanna use Lo Duca to pinch hit, we can do that only cause we have John Baker on the bench as well... they always "the manager never wants to use the backup catcher because he has to save for an emergency situation"...if we dont have Baker on the bench, we cant use Lo Duca in that 8th inning spot, and we thus wouldnt have gotten those two insurance runs in the 8th...

 

I understand that 3 catchers doesnt traditionally "make sense"...but on a team like the Marlins, why is the above situation so hard for people to accept? For the Marlins, it just makes sense to have 3 catchers right now...am I wrong?

We have a bullpen that's been arguably struggling as of late. I'd love to have that 13th arm back.

As I watched Matt Treanor contributing mightly to today's save in the ninth with plays behind the plate John Baker only dreams of making someday I'm baffled at some of the responses here. For those of you who are confused let me help you. You obviously missed the memo when LoDuca came aboard so I'll just paraphrase for you.

 

Paul LoDuca is here as a pinch hitter and an irregular catcher, first baseman and left fielder as the manager decides to play him. He is not an everyday catcher, he isn't even your number two catcher, he's a utility player with a good understanding of what he's doing when he goes up to bat, who can catch.

 

Matt Treanor remains the best defensive catcher, injury or no, hands down. That is not open to debate. When you need a win, when a must-win series is on the line, Matt Treanor is going to be the guy. As long as his health lasts he's here to do what he does best.

 

John Baker has proven himself to be exactly what he always was, good bat, no glove. Would you really have liked Baker catching the ninth inning today with sliders in the dirt? No, I didn't think so. His bat can sometimes make up for his defensive shortcomings against certain types of pitchers and he'll be used that way.

 

Hopefully that helps clear things up for some of you.

 

And for those looking for Justin Miller he's in Albuquerque on the reserve list as the roster is full so he's still in the organization.

Whos the 13th arm? Justin Miller? Andrew Miller? Tucker? All have had struggles. You could argue for Waechter but isnt he out with injury? Lo Duca on the other hand, whether you like him or not, has been a positive for us since joining the club.

And I'll insist that we wouldnt have gotten today's last two runs without having 3 catchers on the team.

Whos the 13th arm? Justin Miller? Andrew Miller? Tucker? All have had struggles. You could argue for Waechter but isnt he out with injury? Lo Duca on the other hand, whether you like him or not, has been a positive for us since joining the club.

And I'll insist that we wouldnt have gotten today's last two runs without having 3 catchers on the team.

 

 

Lets bring Andrew back up

hes been pretty good in the minors so far he has his stuff working

lowered the walks total just like we wanted him 2

Marlins2003 makes a valid point... Lo Duca isnt truly our 3rd catcher, he's a utility player and pinch hitter who just happens to be able to catch... in that sense we could argue that the Marlins have SIX, maybe SEVEN catchers... We cant forget Willingham and Jacobs who can play in an extreme emergency, and I wouldn't doubt Amezaga or Wes Helms could do the job in some strange drastic hypothetical situation...

 

Complaining that Lo Duca is our 3rd catcher might as well be extended to say we have at least 5 catchers... Treanor, Baker, Lo Duca, Willingham, Jacobs

I'll give LoDuca one thing - he knows about situational hitting and what needs to be done with runners on, something most of the rest of the Marlins consider a taboo subject.

he probably had a clause in his contract to be called up or he could opt out

 

Not at all true. But when all else fails, make up "facts."

He didn't make anything up Bob. That was a hypothesis. One I've heard from many people already, even before he was called up.

 

At the time he was signed it was well publisized that he would most likely spend most of the time at AAA, at least until the Sept call ups. He knew even then he was going to be the #3 catcher. So yes, that is made up.

 

 

I didn't spout off any "facts". I gave a scenerio in which why lo duca could have been called up. I didn't make anything up, I didn't pass of a single thing I said as a fact. So, bob, I'd suggest understanding a post before insulting the user.

And for those looking for Justin Miller he's in Albuquerque on the reserve list as the roster is full so he's still in the organization.

 

 

That's awesome to hear, very surprised he passed through waivers like that. I wonder if the marlins had placed him on waivers earlier in the month (and nobody claimed him, because they're it's more saying "we're interested in trading for this player" whereas after being DFA'd it's basically you're getting an average reliever for free making pennies who you could view as a FA at the end of teh year), and so Miller didn't have to go through the process again since he already cleared. Or do you have to be placed on waivers again? Either way it's good to hear he's still with the organization.

As I watched Matt Treanor contributing mightly to today's save in the ninth with plays behind the plate John Baker only dreams of making someday I'm baffled at some of the responses here. For those of you who are confused let me help you. You obviously missed the memo when LoDuca came aboard so I'll just paraphrase for you.

 

Paul LoDuca is here as a pinch hitter and an irregular catcher, first baseman and left fielder as the manager decides to play him. He is not an everyday catcher, he isn't even your number two catcher, he's a utility player with a good understanding of what he's doing when he goes up to bat, who can catch.

 

Matt Treanor remains the best defensive catcher, injury or no, hands down. That is not open to debate. When you need a win, when a must-win series is on the line, Matt Treanor is going to be the guy. As long as his health lasts he's here to do what he does best.

 

John Baker has proven himself to be exactly what he always was, good bat, no glove. Would you really have liked Baker catching the ninth inning today with sliders in the dirt? No, I didn't think so. His bat can sometimes make up for his defensive shortcomings against certain types of pitchers and he'll be used that way.

 

Hopefully that helps clear things up for some of you.

 

And for those looking for Justin Miller he's in Albuquerque on the reserve list as the roster is full so he's still in the organization.

 

 

1. Do you really expect Fredi to insert Lo Duca in LF or RF? Also...why put Lo Duca at 1B, when you can put Cantu there, and insert Helms at 3B (arguably a better defensive lineup)?

 

2. Why are you acting as if Treanor is "Mr.Defensive Catcher?" Is Treanor the best defensive catcher on the team? Yes, absolutely. However...is Fredi going to bring him in, as a defensive replacement? If so...why wasn't Treanor catching in the 9th inning, in a 3-3 tie, Thursday afternoon in SF?

 

What you're saying makes absolute sense...I just don't see Fredi using them that way, right now.

 

Treanor caught the 9th today, because he started in the first place. He wasn't brought in, for defense.

When you have an offensive struggling team like we do... 3 catchers is not a problem if two of them can hit... look at today...

 

Treanor starts and in a late inning RBI situation you wanna use Lo Duca to pinch hit, we can do that only cause we have John Baker on the bench as well... they always "the manager never wants to use the backup catcher because he has to save for an emergency situation"...if we dont have Baker on the bench, we cant use Lo Duca in that 8th inning spot, and we thus wouldnt have gotten those two insurance runs in the 8th...

 

I understand that 3 catchers doesnt traditionally "make sense"...but on a team like the Marlins, why is the above situation so hard for people to accept? For the Marlins, it just makes sense to have 3 catchers right now...am I wrong?

 

I'm in total agreement. Especially when that 3rd catcher can play other positions.

As I watched Matt Treanor contributing mightly to today's save in the ninth with plays behind the plate John Baker only dreams of making someday I'm baffled at some of the responses here. For those of you who are confused let me help you. You obviously missed the memo when LoDuca came aboard so I'll just paraphrase for you.

 

Paul LoDuca is here as a pinch hitter and an irregular catcher, first baseman and left fielder as the manager decides to play him. He is not an everyday catcher, he isn't even your number two catcher, he's a utility player with a good understanding of what he's doing when he goes up to bat, who can catch.

 

Matt Treanor remains the best defensive catcher, injury or no, hands down. That is not open to debate. When you need a win, when a must-win series is on the line, Matt Treanor is going to be the guy. As long as his health lasts he's here to do what he does best.

 

John Baker has proven himself to be exactly what he always was, good bat, no glove. Would you really have liked Baker catching the ninth inning today with sliders in the dirt? No, I didn't think so. His bat can sometimes make up for his defensive shortcomings against certain types of pitchers and he'll be used that way.

 

Hopefully that helps clear things up for some of you.

 

And for those looking for Justin Miller he's in Albuquerque on the reserve list as the roster is full so he's still in the organization.

 

 

1. Do you really expect Fredi to insert Lo Duca in LF or RF? Also...why put Lo Duca at 1B, when you can put Cantu there, and insert Helms at 3B (arguably a better defensive lineup)?

 

2. Why are you acting as if Treanor is "Mr.Defensive Catcher?" Is Treanor the best defensive catcher on the team? Yes, absolutely. However...is Fredi going to bring him in, as a defensive replacement? If so...why wasn't Treanor catching in the 9th inning, in a 3-3 tie, Thursday afternoon in SF?

 

What you're saying makes absolute sense...I just don't see Fredi using them that way, right now.

 

Treanor caught the 9th today, because he started in the first place. He wasn't brought in, for defense.

 

Now there's a good question and something we agree on. It wouldn't bother me at all to see Treanor brought in as a defensive replacement in the 8th or 9th for Baker. Or even Paulie. I would like to hear Fredi's reasoning on why he dosen't do that.

he probably had a clause in his contract to be called up or he could opt out

 

Not at all true. But when all else fails, make up "facts."

He didn't make anything up Bob. That was a hypothesis. One I've heard from many people already, even before he was called up.

 

At the time he was signed it was well publisized that he would most likely spend most of the time at AAA, at least until the Sept call ups. He knew even then he was going to be the #3 catcher. So yes, that is made up.

 

 

I didn't spout off any "facts". I gave a scenerio in which why lo duca could have been called up. I didn't make anything up, I didn't pass of a single thing I said as a fact. So, bob, I'd suggest understanding a post before insulting the user.

 

 

And it's an untrue "scenario" that keeps coming up again and again. Everything about the aquisition was well publisized from the start. Exactly what was going to happen and how. I also put the word facts in parenthesis, so maybe you should take your own advice and understand a post before insulting the user. Bottom line, you don't like my wording, don't read my posts. I'll try to live with that.

Marlins2003 makes a valid point... Lo Duca isnt truly our 3rd catcher, he's a utility player and pinch hitter who just happens to be able to catch... in that sense we could argue that the Marlins have SIX, maybe SEVEN catchers... We cant forget Willingham and Jacobs who can play in an extreme emergency, and I wouldn't doubt Amezaga or Wes Helms could do the job in some strange drastic hypothetical situation...

 

Complaining that Lo Duca is our 3rd catcher might as well be extended to say we have at least 5 catchers... Treanor, Baker, Lo Duca, Willingham, Jacobs

No, Lo Duca is not a utility player. He's a catcher. He's played 928 games at C. He did play 91 games at 1B, but that was a couple times this year because he wasn't as good as any of the other Nats catchers and mostly between 2001 - 2003 for the Dodgers because his bat was good enough that they wanted too put him in as many games as possible without tiring him. That experiment didn't really fly too long with any other teams because he really sucked at 1B.

 

And as far as us having "5-7 catchers", we have 3, Treanor, Lo Duca, and Baker.

 

Willingham hasn't played any games at catcher since the 2 games at the first couple weeks of 2006. He can't play it anymore due to a bad back.

 

Jacobs hasn't played any games at catcher since AAA in 2004 before an injury that moved him out of the position. He can't play there either.

 

Wes Helms and Alfredo Amezaga have never played catcher at any professional level.

There's a difference between being a defensive replacement and a utility player, or for that matter a hitter who has three gloves. It might be worthwhile that his fall from grace with the Nationals had much to do with a broken hand, a seemingly chronic injury (at least in the sense he's broken it in one fashion or another multiple times) which hampered his play. As for left field he's played 40 games there over his career.

 

I'm not suggesting and I don't think anything I wrote would suggest his specialty is defense at any position. I do believe though with double switches and pinch hitting as it happens in the National League, I can imagine scenarios where Fredi inserts PLD as a pinch hitter and uses him at first or left field because another player has been used previously or because of the way the lineup is constructed or who the opposing team has pitching or in the bullpen and Fredi wants to get him another at bat later in the game.

 

The guy has caught one game so far and made two errors (I don't remember what they were or the circumstances). He isn't going to make two errors every time he catches certainly but I'll say again he's here for his bat and anything he can provide in the field takes a back seat to that. From what Fredi said yesterday I guess he's going to try to find more ways to get LoDuca more at bats and that means to me more playing time. How he does it we'll have to wait and see.

lol I think treanor should come in to every 9th inning only while we're ahead. Let him catch Gregg. I have faith in Treanor blocking those POS wild pitches of Gregg over Dookie and Baker.

Lo Duca can play extra positions besides catcher, but that doesn't mean he plays them well. People complain about Gonzo in the outfield. Lo Duca is just as slow, though I would assume a stronger arm. We're not talking about Mike Piazza here who is a GREAT hitter who we can just stick at first base and his offense will offset any defensive lapses. Though I'm not saying that Mike Jacobs is any good at first base either.