Twins Struggling With Third Base Mystery

By Drew Silva [January 21 at 5:26pm CST] According to MLB.com's Kelly Thesier, the Twins are preparing to head into spring training with a third base platoon of Brian Buscher and Brendan Harris.

 

The Twins have made a few attempts to snag a strong third baseman this offseason, but all talks have fallen flat. They pursued Casey Blake before he signed with the Dodgers, and Mark DeRosa before he was sent off to the Indians.

 

Joe Crede remains a free agent, but the Twins might not want to throw money at a guy with chronic back problems. The 30-year-old played only 97 games last season, finishing with a .248 average on top of 17 home runs and 55 RBI.

 

 

 

 

Seems like Jorge Cantu might fit their vacancy, and they might be willing to give a good haul in return, especially with the bargain contract Cantu just signed to. Their farm system is not in Keith Law's Top 10, but they seem to have good pitching talent. Anyone think this might be a match, and if so, which players we might be interested in from them?

 

 

 

 

I'd still love the J. Sanchez trade with SF; any other ideas?

No thanks, Cantu is a big part of this team.Dallas McPherson could be a fit.

We could try and steal their top catching prospect Wilson Ramos.The guy can hit!

I'd rather trade Dallas.

I'd rather trade Dallas.

 

Obviously, lol. But no one seems to be interested in giving up anything for him, whereas Cantu was at least discussed for a talent like J. Sanchez

No way Jose (Cantu).

Minny would want a defense first 3B, that's not Cantu

it doesnt seem like a good fit to me.

I guess parroting is the norm for forums, but here's once voice that's weary of the "Cantu can't play defense" cackling. Cantu had played second base previously in the majors and moved to third in Spring Training for the Marlins last season. He made too many errors at third during the first half of the season, but was highly capable with his fielding after the all star break. I expect his fielding to continue at that higher level this season and don't know why any reasonable observer wouldn't have a similar expectation.

I guess parroting is the norm for forums, but here's once voice that's weary of the "Cantu can't play defense" cackling. Cantu had played second base previously in the majors and moved to third in Spring Training for the Marlins last season. He made too many errors at third during the first half of the season, but was highly capable with his fielding after the all star break. I expect his fielding to continue at that higher level this season and don't know why any reasonable observer wouldn't have a similar expectation.

 

Even at best, Cantu's an average defensive 3B... that's not "Defense first"...

 

Even at 2B he was VERY below average. It's ignorant and naive to claim any sort of defensive prowess for Cantu at either of those positions... everyone in the MLs has a niche... Cantu's is with his bat, not his glove.

 

Now, the only spot defensively he's shown any particular aptitude for is first base. Minny doesn't need a 1B.

 

And just so you don't think this is some sort of baseless claim. Playing full-time at 2B in 2006... according to +/-, he was -21 and ranked 35th at the position. At 3B with us, he was -11 and ranked 30th among 3B.

Cantu would be overpayment for Wilson considering he is about 2-3 years away from the majors. McPherson is a more realistic trade option

They were interested in Casey Blake who's just as bad as Cantu defensively.

 

I think the bigger issue is, is that they wouldn't give up the things needed for a trade to go down plus then have to pay Cantu's salary. They were interested in Blake because he'd only cost $. And they would have been interested in DeRosa because he was being traded for nothing to dump salary.

 

Very likely their FO has contacted us about Cantu and tried to low-ball to see if it was a salary dump. But for a team in their position, he doesn't really fit. Because if they're trading things worth-whiled, it needs to be somebody on the other side of arbitration and service time.

They were interested in Casey Blake who's just as bad as Cantu defensively.

 

I think the bigger issue is, is that they wouldn't give up the things needed for a trade to go down plus then have to pay Cantu's salary. They were interested in Blake because he'd only cost $. And they would have been interested in DeRosa because he was being traded for nothing to dump salary.

 

Very likely their FO has contacted us about Cantu and tried to low-ball to see if it was a salary dump. But for a team in their position, he doesn't really fit. Because if they're trading things worth-whiled, it needs to be somebody on the other side of arbitration and service time.

 

Last time I checked Cantu makes less than Blake.

He does.

 

And Blake only costs $.

 

Cantu costs $ and players.

He does.

 

And Blake only costs $.

 

Cantu costs $ and players.

 

And Blake would have cost $ over 3 years. Cantu is under club control for two more years, makes significantly less, is a much better hitter, and is much younger.

they're basically the same hitters and blake at least has a track record.

 

Also you have no idea what kind of contract the twins were offering blake. You can't use the contract he got in LA as a variable because it is not static between teams. I mean sh*t, there's a reason he's not a Twin.

 

And you're severely underestimating the value of cost-controlled players to a team like the Twins. If they're giving up those kind of players, they need a player like that in return.

They were interested in Casey Blake who's just as bad as Cantu defensively.

 

I think the bigger issue is, is that they wouldn't give up the things needed for a trade to go down plus then have to pay Cantu's salary. They were interested in Blake because he'd only cost $. And they would have been interested in DeRosa because he was being traded for nothing to dump salary.

 

Very likely their FO has contacted us about Cantu and tried to low-ball to see if it was a salary dump. But for a team in their position, he doesn't really fit. Because if they're trading things worth-whiled, it needs to be somebody on the other side of arbitration and service time.

 

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/neal/2...idday-update-2/

 

I'm going by like, the first line of this... also some other lines back from the Lowell to Minny rumors.

 

Rest of it I agree with though or concede to.

they're basically the same hitters and blake at least has a track record.

 

Also you have no idea what kind of contract the twins were offering blake. You can't use the contract he got in LA as a variable because it is not static between teams. I mean sh*t, there's a reason he's not a Twin.

 

And you're severely underestimating the value of cost-controlled players to a team like the Twins. If they're giving up those kind of players, they need a player like that in return.

 

Yea, I don't know what contract they were offering, but I do know it wasn't good enough to get him. If they're trying to get someone similar to Blake, and they aren't willing to spend what LA did, Cantu would be their man.

 

And they aren't basically the same hitter. Cantu is much better, and is entering his prime in the next year or two.

And they aren't basically the same hitter. Cantu is much better, and is entering his prime in the next year or two.

 

No, they pretty much are the same hitter. Cantu's career OPS+ is 102. Blake's is 105.

 

Also, in 2008 they had identical OPS+ of 110.

And while you are right about Cantu having the advantage of age, Blake has the advantage of a track record.

 

You could make an argument Cantu will be better the next 2 years but he's very likely not going to be substantially better like you make it out to be. Honestly, given the choice between the two at exactly equal costs for two years, I'd probably take Blake's track record, although again it's not going to make some substantial difference.

 

 

And again, you're ignoring just how valuable club-controlled players are to a team like the Twins. You can't just look at money and say they should go after Cantu if they were willing to spend money for Blake. Because they're giving up something that is very valuable to their team: club controlled players.

And they aren't basically the same hitter. Cantu is much better, and is entering his prime in the next year or two.

 

No, they pretty much are the same hitter. Cantu's career OPS+ is 102. Blake's is 105.

 

Also, in 2008 they had identical OPS+ of 110.

 

You're using one stat to prove they're the same hitter. I can use many to prove Cantu is superior.

 

In 2008:

 

Blake, 35-years-old: .274 AVG, 21 HR, 81 RBI, .345 OBP, .463 SLUG, 58 XBH, .808 OPS

 

Cantu, 26-years-old: .277 AVG, 29 HR, 95 RBI, .327 OBP, .481 SLUG, 70 XBH, .808 OPS

 

I think I'll go with my Mexican amigo here. But, in your defense, they are tied in OPS, as well as amount of letters per last name.

so basically you're quoting why Blake is a better hitter since his OPS is more OBP-driven?

 

Also you keep saying Cantu is "much better." Similar stats != much better

so basically you're quoting why Blake is a better hitter since his OPS is more OBP-driven?

 

Also you keep saying Cantu is "much better." Similar stats != much better

 

If you're talking to me, no. I'm obviously showing why Cantu is far superior, considering he leads Blake in every stat that is meaningful except two, and one those two they're tied. Not to mention Blake is nearly a decade older and on his way out, while Cantu is just now enetering his prime.

well we can throw out HRs (Where SLG shows better how much power somebody has), RBI's (a team-dependent stat), and batting average (which itself is not comparable to runs a player helps create).

 

We are left with OBP, or the ability to get on base, and SLG, or the ability to hit extra base hits.

 

Blake is better at getting on base. Cantu is better at slugging.

 

OBP has shown to be more valuable than SLG.

 

Ergo, considering the differences are not substantial as shown by their similar OPS's, Blake is the superior hitter.

 

And again yes you are right about prime and age, but you're also ignoring track record.

And they aren't basically the same hitter. Cantu is much better, and is entering his prime in the next year or two.

 

No, they pretty much are the same hitter. Cantu's career OPS+ is 102. Blake's is 105.

 

Also, in 2008 they had identical OPS+ of 110.

 

You're using one stat to prove they're the same hitter. I can use many to prove Cantu is superior.

 

In 2008:

 

Blake, 35-years-old: .274 AVG, 21 HR, 81 RBI, .345 OBP, .463 SLUG, 58 XBH, .808 OPS

 

Cantu, 26-years-old: .277 AVG, 29 HR, 95 RBI, .327 OBP, .481 SLUG, 70 XBH, .808 OPS

 

I think I'll go with my Mexican amigo here. But, in your defense, they are tied in OPS, as well as amount of letters per last name.

 

The issue with some of those is though..

 

OBP is more important than BA... so, by having a better OBP, that eliminates Cantu's slight lead in BA. Counting stats are kind of bleh and Blake has the track record of putting up 20/80 seasons than Cantu does... because, seriously, where was this for Cantu between TB/FLA?

 

Ultimately the OPS is the same, and with OBP being more important than slugging, the guy with the better OBP is the better hitter/offensive player. The only advantage of substance Cantu has is age.