March 21, 200917 yr The only thing lower than Mike Jacobs' OBP is my love life. I can't get to first base no matter how hard I try. I think I just owned myself...
March 21, 200917 yr The only thing lower than Mike Jacobs' OBP is my love life. I can't get to first base no matter how hard I try. I think I just owned myself... *high5* although, the difference is, even Mike Jacobs will smack an occasional homer... *assist-owned*
March 21, 200917 yr The only thing lower than Mike Jacobs' OBP is my love life. I can't get to first base no matter how hard I try. I think I just owned myself... *high5* although, the difference is, even Mike Jacobs will smack an occasional homer... *assist-owned* Well, I hit some homers now and then. Just I'm doing all the pitching. :thumbup
March 21, 200917 yr Teams are predicting the Marlins to be so low because of once again the inexperience that we have (Wes Helms is the only player who can really be considered a veteran). Our rotation has been wishy washy, both Johnson and Sanchez are coming off of injuries, and thus makes them injury prone. Miller has suffered from control problems his entire MLB career, and Nolasco has to prove he is not just a one season wonder. Our bullpen is consisted of guys who are at their last stop, and Lindstrom who has very little experience as a closer. Our lineup is also somewhat concerning. We don't know if Maybin will be lower his K rate that he had in the minors, or if he can handle the pressures of an entire season in the MLB and taking over that vast center field in Dolphins Stadium. We still have a lot of inconsistancy at 1st base. We don't even know at this point if Sanchez is really our starting 1st baseman. He hasn't started a game in the majors, and we are losing a lot of power in Jacobs bat (we won't miss the hit or miss attitude though, but Sanchez may have just as low an average with less home runs). Hermida can easily be a miss, and be out of the lineup by June. Hanley may be bothered by that shoulder all season long. He still has tendinitis from that injury he sustained late last season. Also when he is healthy he needs to produce more with RISP. Uggla needs to continue in his progress of improving his fielding. Most importantly for me, he needs to get that batting average up. Batting .255 and .250 in consecutive seasons is not acceptable, unless you are Ryan Howard and averaging 45+ home runs. We all know our issues at catcher, with very little depth and Rabelo as our backup. I have a lot of faith in Cantu to continue his success from last season. Another thing to mention is that we still have not addressed the issue of getting a veteran 6th emergency starter. We have many guys such as Badenhop, Tucker, De La Cruz, etc... who can come in and do an ok job, but we do not have that guy that can help us win games if one of our starters goes down. And with the inconsistencies of some of our starters, and the injury risks that plague some of our other pitchers, we needed that backup pitcher. So its understandable that people see us so low, because they see us as that very young, inexperienced, and injury prone team. If this team matures in a hurry, and the main pieces to the team stay healthy, as well as players such as Hermida, Lindstrom, Uggla, Miller, etc... step up their game and prove they are deserved of the spot they were given, then we should easily prove all the critics wrong. yes big wall of text!!!!!!!
March 21, 200917 yr way to kill the thread :lol :confused Didn't know I killed a funny thread, I'll go hide in a corner now
March 21, 200917 yr Cantu+Hanley, thanks for starting one of the more interesting threads ive read in a while. I think you raise a fair question, but I agree with the homer majority that there is reason to be optimistic about this season. Improved starting pitching is probably the best reason to be optimistic. Combine that with what is designed to be a better defensive team, and we are looking better on one side of the ball. The lineup may have taken a hit, but the idea is that our young talent will step in and get the job done. A lot to ask of the likes of Baker, Maybin, Gaby, perhaps, but crazier things have happened than young, talented players producing in their first full season in the majors. :thumbup ps - lol yokofox
March 21, 200917 yr The only real loss was Kevin Gregg. Basically. I think people for the most part underestimate how big our loss of Gregg is going to be in our bullpen. The issue is people wanted a lights out closer but he's only an average reliever. But, at this point, an average reliever would be an upgrade in our bullpen. Because after Matty, we don't have much. Still, it's a trade you do regardlessly because Ceda should be AT WORST Kevin Gregg and most likely an above average reliever. However, I think a case can be made for Hammer to, especially since his power climbed every single month after coming back July ISO: .096 August ISO: .185 September ISO: .267 And while yeah, he is a deffective piece because of his back, he still would have been awesome off the bench as our 4th OFer as insurance for if Maybin isn't ready, Cody goes back to a .600 OPS against RHP, Hermida is a dick again. Hell, even if Gaby isn't ready, bam, Hammer to 1B. But that kind of expensive piece isn't a luxury we get to have.
March 21, 200917 yr The only real loss was Kevin Gregg. Basically. I think people for the most part underestimate how big our loss of Gregg is going to be in our bullpen. The issue is people wanted a lights out closer but he's only an average reliever. But, at this point, an average reliever would be an upgrade in our bullpen. Because after Matty, we don't have much. Still, it's a trade you do regardlessly because Ceda should be AT WORST Kevin Gregg and most likely an above average reliever. Exactly.
March 21, 200917 yr The only real loss was Kevin Gregg. Basically. I think people for the most part underestimate how big our loss of Gregg is going to be in our bullpen. The issue is people wanted a lights out closer but he's only an average reliever. But, at this point, an average reliever would be an upgrade in our bullpen. Because after Matty, we don't have much. Still, it's a trade you do regardlessly because Ceda should be AT WORST Kevin Gregg and most likely an above average reliever. However, I think a case can be made for Hammer to, especially since his power climbed every single month after coming back July ISO: .096 August ISO: .185 September ISO: .267 And while yeah, he is a deffective piece because of his back, he still would have been awesome off the bench as our 4th OFer as insurance for if Maybin isn't ready, Cody goes back to a .600 OPS against RHP, Hermida is a dick again. Hell, even if Gaby isn't ready, bam, Hammer to 1B. But that kind of expensive piece isn't a luxury we get to have. The thing with his back was that we were considering trading him throughout the year just in case his back caused his value to plummet. The problem was that we traded him for practically nothing.
March 21, 200917 yr Ryan Howard had 19 errors Prince Fielder had 17 :glare Because when I think of Howard and Fielder, I think of gold gloves. And errors are the best way to judge a player, defensively, as well. :cool And especially a 1B. :whistle How many times did we see one of our IFers hit Jake right in the glove, foot on the bag, and the error went on the throw??
March 21, 200917 yr The only thing lower than Mike Jacobs' OBP is my love life. I can't get to first base no matter how hard I try. I think I just owned myself... *high5* although, the difference is, even Mike Jacobs will smack an occasional homer... *assist-owned* Well, I hit some homers now and then. Just I'm doing all the pitching. :thumbup And you live in Japan? How things have changed.
March 21, 200917 yr The only real loss was Kevin Gregg. Basically. I think people for the most part underestimate how big our loss of Gregg is going to be in our bullpen. The issue is people wanted a lights out closer but he's only an average reliever. But, at this point, an average reliever would be an upgrade in our bullpen. Because after Matty, we don't have much. Still, it's a trade you do regardlessly because Ceda should be AT WORST Kevin Gregg and most likely an above average reliever. However, I think a case can be made for Hammer to, especially since his power climbed every single month after coming back July ISO: .096 August ISO: .185 September ISO: .267 And while yeah, he is a deffective piece because of his back, he still would have been awesome off the bench as our 4th OFer as insurance for if Maybin isn't ready, Cody goes back to a .600 OPS against RHP, Hermida is a dick again. Hell, even if Gaby isn't ready, bam, Hammer to 1B. But that kind of expensive piece isn't a luxury we get to have. Hammer dosen't seem to me to be the type of player that would be effective off the bench. He needs to play every day to keep his timing. But we most likely shall see this year in Washington. "Bam, Hammer to 1B"???? Can't see how all that stretching and diving at 1B would good for that back of his. Hermida will most likely be alot better at the plate. Everything I have read and seen this ST says he learned a valuable lesson last season. But I can see some awkward moments in the OF this year. Getting used to those lights at Joe Robbie and the different angles in LF is going to take some time. Patience is a virtue. It shouldn't take long.
March 21, 200917 yr Hammer dosen't seem to me to be the type of player that would be effective off the bench. He needs to play every day to keep his timing. But we most likely shall see this year in Washington. "Bam, Hammer to 1B"???? Can't see how all that stretching and diving at 1B would good for that back of his. I think with his plate patience and selectiveness, he should be fine, although we as fans in general do talk way too much about putting a starter on the bench and expecting them to excel. But going from 3-5+ ABs per day to one AB every 1-3 days is a lot harder than we normally comprehend. Gonzo being a good example last year. The 1B comment was for the fact that he's taken continually taken fielding practice at the position and so, barring a back injury, should be able to handle it fine...but yeah, wouldn't be good for his back haha. The thing with his back was that we were considering trading him throughout the year just in case his back caused his value to plummet. The problem was that we traded him for practically nothing. That's also my problem with the trade, but it is also understandable why you just trade him when they did. I mean, on one hand, you keep him the entire year without playing him everyday, but still getting him ~450 PAs. If he stays injury free, puts up a ~.850 OPS, we should get good value for him. That's basically what the Rangers did with Milton Bradley. He turned a 9 year career where he only broke hundred games twice before last season (one of which being only 101 games), played in only 126 games last year with 500 PAs but was never injured and got a 3 year, 30m contract. It does raise issues though. Where would Hammer play? I mean, he'd have to play to increase his value. With Maybin's and Cody's defense, they would have be in the OF (And Cody, barely being able to break 5 feet, shouldn't be at first). If you play Hammer at 1B, as Bob noted above, it's putting a lot more stain on his back than OF. At which point you're than talking about flip-flopping Hermida between LF (When Hammer isn't playing) and 1B (When he is playing) and just completely f***ing with Hermida's defensive development in left. You also have to look at is as the lottery. Well, I mean, everything in baseball management is basically the lottery, but it's about putting the odds in your favor. If Hammer gets injured again, or if his back sucks a ton of his power away like it did most of last season after he came back, or blah blah blah, we're going from trading a 29 year old with a three year history of back problems to trading a 30 year old with a four year history of back problems. There also has been some hype about PJ Dean lately, and Smolinski is viewed as a good prospect if he can stay at 2b. However, I also remember last year all the hype around Mike Rabelo and him becoming our catcher of the future, and we can see how that turned out. I'll pass on the "honeymoon hype" and wait for actual performance to get me excited.
March 21, 200917 yr people act like they could have gotten more for Hammer, I figure they were probably going to non-tender him if they didn't get someone to take him. They basically did him a favor, giving him to a team who was going to pay him or go to arbitration, we weren't giving him the $3M or whatever he ended up getting from the Nats. I think there would be less grief on this board if they just cut him, people would have gotten the "Loria is so cheap!" posts out of the way at the beginning, instead of now fixating on Bonifacio as a mistake, when in reality it's something for nothing.
March 21, 200917 yr Patience is a virtue. This sentence in a post about Hermida is full of lulz. This board has no patience with Hermida.
March 21, 200917 yr people act like they could have gotten more for Hammer, I figure they were probably going to non-tender him if they didn't get someone to take him. They basically did him a favor, giving him to a team who was going to pay him or go to arbitration, we weren't giving him the $3M or whatever he ended up getting from the Nats. I think there would be less grief on this board if they just cut him, people would have gotten the "Loria is so cheap!" posts out of the way at the beginning, instead of now fixating on Bonifacio as a mistake, when in reality it's something for nothing. agreed. the mere notion of someone sitting on a message board griping about not getting enough for a player is kind of inherently absurd... as if there were better options that we know about but Beinfest didn't, or he had better options but chose to go with the one where we get the crappy player AND trade within our division. some of us love to bitch and moan about how cheap our owner is, but then still can't seem to come to understand and terms with moves like that one.
March 21, 200917 yr I agree with the addition by subtraction argument... the only thing I think was our biggest loss is that even with the inconsistent performances of Willingham and Olsen... they were worth MUCH more than Bonifacio and the chump change we got in return from Washington... Bonifacio might actually start in AAA and we gave up Olsen's 200+ innings and Josh's bat for THAT? Washington ROBBED us there...
March 21, 200917 yr I agree with the addition by subtraction argument... the only thing I think was our biggest loss is that even with the inconsistent performances of Willingham and Olsen... they were worth MUCH more than Bonifacio and the chump change we got in return from Washington... Bonifacio might actually start in AAA and we gave up Olsen's 200+ innings and Josh's bat for THAT? Washington ROBBED us there... Just because a deal was really good for one team does not mean that it was not also wise for the team who seemingly got hosed. See Lane's post regarding the Marlins and our philosophy of not paying people. Also, keep in mind where we sent these guys... Washington Nationals, the only team in the NL East with less proven veteran talent than the Marlins! Personally, I think Olsen has the better chance of trying to make the organization look foolish on this one... but even then, the FO would probably still be happy with the decision they made.
March 21, 200917 yr unless we have SP injuries... if that happens, and Olsen produces, then we look like idiots. Well, maybe not idiots, but definitely huge cheapskates! knock on wood.
March 21, 200917 yr Call me when PJ Dean and Jake Smolinski make an impact in 09 I didn't realize that guys acquired in a trade had to make an impact the following year.
March 22, 200917 yr Dontrelle didn't make an impact the season after he was acquired. AJ Burnett didn't become a regular until almost 4 years after his trade. Etc.
March 22, 200917 yr In defense of SliverBullet's somewhat flippant remark, the thread is about whether or not we are improved this season, not whether or not it was a good trade. In terms of actual production this season, I think it is safe to assume that the veterans the Nats received will do more than our guys, with likely only Bonifacio seeing action in the Show.
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