This better be all just a rumor. I haven't been upset with any of the "fire" sale trades but this one is ridiculous. We better get A LOT more than just Vazquez. He's OK. I think Dan is worth more than that and the fact we'd have to play against him so much. This is all we can get for a 2B that hit 30 homers all those seasons??? I'm going to be pissed!

 

 

 

Wow, can you tell me why he is just "ok"?

 

I see the stats. I think he's ok. He's very up and down. I'll give you the fact the last 2 of 3 seasons he's been good, but other then those, he's mainly been just a .500 pitcher.

I guess he's durable. I'll give you that. I just don't like the idea of Dan being in the division anyway. I could be sold if this wasn't a divisional move, and especially to the Braves. Screw them.

Speaking of infielders, the highly anticipated return of Emilio Bonifacio to the Licey Tigers happens tomorrow where there is a logjam at second base (from what I can figure out from translated to english blurbs) with his friend Anderson Hernandez and compatriot Luis Castillo all vying for playing time at the position.

 

Be interesting to see who winds up where.

I laugh strongly at his $2 million Pinto arbitration projection.

 

Secondly, the Braves would never give us a pitcher of that quality with the emergence of Prado and still having KJ, and even if we did acquire Javy, it would be Hamptonesque and we'd flip him right back out for something else we want.

 

 

 

I think it may be a little high, but it's probably in that range. $1.5-$2 mil I would guess. If he's not involved in some kind of trade. He may walk guys too often, but he's not at all bad with inhereted runners and his ERA isn't all that bad. When he first hits the mound it is pretty easy to tell what kind of outing he will have. Shame our previous pen coach couldn't pick up on that. The experts on this board sure don't like him, but that means absolutely nothing.

 

I don't guess on these things.

 

Sample of year 4 salaries for relievers

 

Grant Balfour $.500

Scott Downs $.705

Brian Shouse $.725

Frank Francisco $.775

Jason Grilli $.8

Jason Frasor $.825

Matt Thornton $.875

Dan Wheeler $.930

Matt Guerrier $.950k

Jesse Crain $1.05

Heath Bell $1.2

CJ Wilson $1.85

Mike Gonzalez $2.25

 

His playing time is about on par with Thornton with games played (another lefty making it very comparable), and Thorton has had a better career performance when it comes to pure statistics. I'm estimating $850,000 for Pinto, give or take $50k. He's not getting saves (Gonzalzez, Wilson) or massive holds and premier whip (like Bell) to break a million bucks. He's a normal used reliever in the bullpen. These guys don't break the bank in arbitration.

Speaking of infielders, the highly anticipated return of Emilio Bonifacio to the Licey Tigers happens tomorrow where there is a logjam at second base (from what I can figure out from translated to english blurbs) with his friend Anderson Hernandez and compatriot Luis Castillo all vying for playing time at the position.

 

Be interesting to see who winds up where.

 

 

 

Bonifacio should stay with Licey...forever. That would be interesting.

Add the White Sox to the list of potential suitors for Uggla. According to Rotoworld they have agreed to trade Chris Getz and Josh Fields to KC for Mark Teahan, leaving them with a hole at 2B.

Add the White Sox to the list of potential suitors for Uggla. According to Rotoworld they have agreed to trade Chris Getz and Josh Fields to KC for Mark Teahan, leaving them with a hole at 2B.

 

 

 

Alexei Ramirez?

Add the White Sox to the list of potential suitors for Uggla. According to Rotoworld they have agreed to trade Chris Getz and Josh Fields to KC for Mark Teahan, leaving them with a hole at 2B.

 

 

 

Alexei Ramirez?

 

Dunno, I was just repeating what Rotoworld had been saying about it.

Add the White Sox to the list of potential suitors for Uggla. According to Rotoworld they have agreed to trade Chris Getz and Josh Fields to KC for Mark Teahan, leaving them with a hole at 2B.

 

 

 

Alexei Ramirez?

 

Dunno, I was just repeating what Rotoworld had been saying about it.

 

I'm guessing this move moves Alexei Ramirez to 2B, and Gordon Beckham back to SS. Could be wrong, though.

Loria has always liked Vazquez as they were together in Montreal. Don't discount that fact but I wouldn't trade Uggla in the division. I would trade him to someone like the Dodgers or the Twins.

no way i we hope keep and sign uggla long term. i want to see uggla and ramirez up the middle at the new park.

no way i we hope keep and sign uggla long term. i want to see uggla and ramirez up the middle at the new park.

 

A 32 year old Uggla making around $15 million isn't a good idea. No thanks.

 

I hope Chris Coghlan is our 2B in the new stadium.

no way i we hope keep and sign uggla long term. i want to see uggla and ramirez up the middle at the new park.

 

A 32 year old Uggla making around $15 million isn't a good idea. No thanks.

 

I hope Chris Coghlan is our 2B in the new stadium.

 

 

idk about the 15 mill. but in baseball age doesnt matter as much just look at the yankees most of those guys are in their 30's

no way i we hope keep and sign uggla long term. i want to see uggla and ramirez up the middle at the new park.

 

A 32 year old Uggla making around $15 million isn't a good idea. No thanks.

 

I hope Chris Coghlan is our 2B in the new stadium.

 

 

idk about the 15 mill. but in baseball age doesnt matter as much just look at the yankees most of those guys are in their 30's

And that's a collection of hall of famers being paid $15-30 million each.

 

Uggla's good. He's not that good. This team is better served developing all of the hitting prospects, and then spending "free agency" money pre-2012 to get a big free agent to fix a problem area. Which could very well be 2B, but we don't have to commit to that now.

no way i we hope keep and sign uggla long term. i want to see uggla and ramirez up the middle at the new park.

 

A 32 year old Uggla making around $15 million isn't a good idea. No thanks.

 

I hope Chris Coghlan is our 2B in the new stadium.

 

 

idk about the 15 mill. but in baseball age doesnt matter as much just look at the yankees most of those guys are in their 30's

And that's a collection of hall of famers being paid $15-30 million each.

 

Uggla's good. He's not that good. This team is better served developing all of the hitting prospects, and then spending "free agency" money pre-2012 to get a big free agent to fix a problem area. Which could very well be 2B, but we don't have to commit  to that now.

 

 

what if we get em for like the 7 to 10 mill range for like 3  or 4 years ?

From everything that's been written and the few times we've seen Dan talk about money and the Marlins he seems more interested in security than the big pay day which should not be interpreted as Dan is willing to play for peanuts but I doubt he'd put up much resistance to a 4 year $25 million partially backloaded contract.

 

But I'm just guessing like everyone else.

From everything that's been written and the few times we've seen Dan talk about money and the Marlins he seems more interested in security than the big pay day which should not be interpreted as Dan is willing to play for peanuts but I doubt he'd put up much resistance to a 4 year $25 million partially backloaded contract.

 

But I'm just guessing like everyone else.

 

 

 

then u would want to keep him right ? thats what im saying, for a reasonable price we should at least try and keep him. plus i have this feeling that uggla is one of lorias favorite players. well, let me not say favorite but something close to it

There's no way this FO offers Uggla a long-term deal.

From everything that's been written and the few times we've seen Dan talk about money and the Marlins he seems more interested in security than the big pay day which should not be interpreted as Dan is willing to play for peanuts but I doubt he'd put up much resistance to a 4 year $25 million partially backloaded contract.

 

But I'm just guessing like everyone else.

 

Sure. Just to take the counter point.

 

I'm easily getting $7.5 in arb this year, if not up to $8. If I'm actually taken to arbitration 6th year, easily breaking $10-11 million. Then I look at contract comparables and yea I'm 30, but that's still young enough for a 4-5 year contract where I won't be lowballed yet. Utley is getting $15 a year. Cano is getting $14-15 (are option years, but still the price). Aaron Hill did a lower buyout and is getting $8-10 in his "FA" years. I'm better than Aaron Hill for my career. I'm a bashing 2B, I'm better than old OF Abreu and he just got under $10 a year.

 

So really, if I'm Dan's agent, I'm thinking a best case scenario is $8-12-$15-$15 for a four year contract looking at comparables. 4/$50 basically. Now will I get that? No. I can't shoot for the moon each arbitration and expect Utley compensation in FA, so a more modest expectation would be $7-10-12-13, is 4/$42. Then Dan tells me, "F" it. I want to be here with this special team starting to come together. Give them the home town. I want to stay here and I'll accommodate the cheaper Marlins a bit, because I'm still set for life if I sign this contract. 4/$35?

 

I mean it's semantics, and this guess is just as good as yours, but the home town just has to be in the mid-upper 30's range, and "fair and just" compensation in the low-mid 40's range. There's only so much you can go down. 4/$25 would be the deal of the century for the Marlins, and they should lock him up INSTANTLY if they think Dan will take what Freddy Sanchez is getting over 4 years. Uggla's agent cannot let him go that below slot though.

 

I think a 4/$36 offer wouldn't insult him. I think a 4/$44 would get him signed (which unsurprisingly, is the deal the Marlins will probably offer Johnson). That's basically the breakdown, but do the Marlins still want to commit that kind of money to a bat with the emergence of Coghlan and all the other premier young players/prospects we have in Jax, NOLA, and the MLB level? Probably not.

Id love a Uggla for Vazquez trade without the money but its just not worth it with all of the money he is owed, but he truly is a great underrated pitcher that would make our rotation great and more consistent.

Id love a Uggla for Vazquez trade without the money but its just not worth it with all of the money he is owed, but he truly is a great underrated pitcher that would make our rotation great and more consistent.

Id love a Uggla for Vazquez trade without the money but its just not worth it with all of the money he is owed, but he truly is a great underrated pitcher that would make our rotation great and more consistent.

 

 

 

Vazquez is about as reliable as they come. I cannot think of a better way to spend $10 million to improve the team. Cuddyer of the Twins will make that much for goodness sakes.

Oh, and Prado was better offensively than Uggla last year.

 

Opps.

 

Yeah but seeing as how Uggla became 2008 Uggla in the second half even though he had always been better in the first half throughout his career, I'd say the slow start was a fluke.

I laugh strongly at his $2 million Pinto arbitration projection.

 

Secondly, the Braves would never give us a pitcher of that quality with the emergence of Prado and still having KJ, and even if we did acquire Javy, it would be Hamptonesque and we'd flip him right back out for something else we want.

 

 

 

I think it may be a little high, but it's probably in that range. $1.5-$2 mil I would guess. If he's not involved in some kind of trade. He may walk guys too often, but he's not at all bad with inhereted runners and his ERA isn't all that bad. When he first hits the mound it is pretty easy to tell what kind of outing he will have. Shame our previous pen coach couldn't pick up on that. The experts on this board sure don't like him, but that means absolutely nothing.

 

I don't guess on these things.

 

 

 

His playing time is about on par with Thornton with games played (another lefty making it very comparable), and Thorton has had a better career performance when it comes to pure statistics. I'm estimating $850,000 for Pinto, give or take $50k. He's not getting saves (Gonzalzez, Wilson) or massive holds and premier whip (like Bell) to break a million bucks. He's a normal used reliever in the bullpen. These guys don't break the bank in arbitration.

 

Sure ya do. Unless you have a crystal ball or something. You said it yourself with the word "estimating." When all is said and done and their numbers don't match yours, then you can always say you were right and they were wrong. Or just totally ignore it.

 

BTW Comparing how other teams do things or pay players never did make much sense to me. We aren't other teams and have a different way of doing things.

I laugh strongly at his $2 million Pinto arbitration projection.

 

Secondly, the Braves would never give us a pitcher of that quality with the emergence of Prado and still having KJ, and even if we did acquire Javy, it would be Hamptonesque and we'd flip him right back out for something else we want.

 

 

 

I think it may be a little high, but it's probably in that range. $1.5-$2 mil I would guess. If he's not involved in some kind of trade. He may walk guys too often, but he's not at all bad with inhereted runners and his ERA isn't all that bad. When he first hits the mound it is pretty easy to tell what kind of outing he will have. Shame our previous pen coach couldn't pick up on that. The experts on this board sure don't like him, but that means absolutely nothing.

 

I don't guess on these things.

 

 

 

His playing time is about on par with Thornton with games played (another lefty making it very comparable), and Thorton has had a better career performance when it comes to pure statistics. I'm estimating $850,000 for Pinto, give or take $50k. He's not getting saves (Gonzalzez, Wilson) or massive holds and premier whip (like Bell) to break a million bucks. He's a normal used reliever in the bullpen. These guys don't break the bank in arbitration.

 

Sure ya do. Unless you have a crystal ball or something. You said it yourself with the word "estimating." When all is said and done and their numbers don't match yours, then you can always say you were right and they were wrong. Or just totally ignore it.

 

BTW Comparing how other teams do things or pay players never did make much sense to me. We aren't other teams and have a different way of doing things.

Remember, guessing and hypothesizing are not the same thing.