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Orlando Hudson?


VolSTUD LUVer
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Considering he is a free agent and that we eventually trade Uggla, how bout offering Orlando Hudson some sort of deal with the $8 million we save from trading Uggla? He could replace Uggla at 2nd base and keep Bonifacio on the bench where he belongs. You have to remember that we were mentioned in signing him last offseason. Thoughts?

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Considering he is a free agent and that we eventually trade Uggla, how bout offering Orlando Hudson some sort of deal with the $8 million we save from trading Uggla? He could replace Uggla at 2nd base and keep Bonifacio on the bench where he belongs. You have to remember that we were mentioned in signing him last offseason. Thoughts?

 

 

The money they Marlins save from Uggla will be going in the owner's pocket. Get ready to watch Bonifacio get a lot of at bats next season for the Marlins.

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You guys ever let yourselves consider that the reason the Marlins are confidently shopping Uggla and aren't making any aggressive moves to replace him at 2B is because they have a lot of faith in Bonifacio's ability?

 

You guys remember Cody Ross? The guy who was in 4 different organizations before the Marlins acquired him. You know, before Ross became a solid everyday player. He was terrible in his early twenties trying to breakthrough. The Marlins showed a lot of patience in him and it paid off.

 

You guys remember Dan Meyer? The minor league free agent that had been mediocre his entire time with the A's organization. The rest of the league gave up on Meyer's upside, the Marlins didn't. He turned out to be a valuable set up guy for us last year.

 

You guys remember Jorge Cantu? A guy who wasn't even in the major leagues anymore. The front office had faith in his ability, gave him a chance--and in the process--unearthed another valuable major league infielder.

 

You guys remember John Baker? Another A's castoff no team wanted, but the Marlins seemingly plucked him out of thin air and now he's firmly entrenched in the major leagues.

 

These are just some recent names off the top of my head -- but each one of these guys played a significant role last year. And each one of these guys were given up on too quickly by their respective teams.

 

If the players the Marlins have been able to acquire (for virtually nothing), were good bets to perform in the majors, the Marlins wouldn't have been able to get them at the cost they did.

 

Another way to look at this: We've gone into seasons with big unknowns at positions that none of us were excited about "oh crap, we're counting on Cantu at 3B this year" ... then Cantu goes on to hit 30 HRs and 100 RBI. Same for Uggla before his 2006.

 

Bonifacio struggled last year and everybody wants to give up on him as an everyday player -- all the while the front office is steadfast in their belief in him -- thinking that he can materialize into a solid major league 2b with more experience. How many times have we disagreed with the moves the front office has made only to be pleasantly surprised afterwards? We've been here before.

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Yes because the front office, and coaching staff don't know more about Coghlan's ability than you do.

 

 

Wow, man. You seem like a promising poster. Don't go this route. He's allowed to have his opinion without a nasty remark.

 

I don't see anything wrong with disagreeing with somebody's opinion. I don't take it personally when I'm disagreed with maybe you shouldn't take it personally either.

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Yes because the front office, and coaching staff don't know more about Coghlan's ability than you do.

 

 

Wow, man. You seem like a promising poster. Don't go this route. He's allowed to have his opinion without a nasty remark.

 

I don't see anything wrong with disagreeing with somebody's opinion. I don't take it personally when I'm disagreed with maybe you shouldn't take it personally either.

 

Good posts Marlin. I agree with you up to an extent...as probably others as well. You seem to be forgetting about a few of the "mistakes" or "obsessions" the organization can have. Case in point...Jorge Julio???? WTF??? Joe Borchard???? And to a degree Hermida.

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Yes because the front office, and coaching staff don't know more about Coghlan's ability than you do.

 

 

Wow, man. You seem like a promising poster. Don't go this route. He's allowed to have his opinion without a nasty remark.

 

I don't see anything wrong with disagreeing with somebody's opinion. I don't take it personally when I'm disagreed with maybe you shouldn't take it personally either.

 

LOL. You weren't even disagreeing with me, and there was absolutely no need for the tone of your remark. You can pretend your remark wasn't snarky, but no one's gonna buy that.

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You guys ever let yourselves consider that the reason the Marlins are confidently shopping Uggla and aren't making any aggressive moves to replace him at 2B is because they have a lot of faith in Bonifacio's ability?

 

You guys remember Cody Ross? The guy who was in 4 different organizations before the Marlins acquired him. You know, before Ross became a solid everyday player. He was terrible in his early twenties trying to breakthrough. The Marlins showed a lot of patience in him and it paid off.

 

You guys remember Dan Meyer? The minor league free agent that had been mediocre his entire time with the A's organization. The rest of the league gave up on Meyer's upside, the Marlins didn't. He turned out to be a valuable set up guy for us last year.

 

You guys remember Jorge Cantu? A guy who wasn't even in the major leagues anymore. The front office had faith in his ability, gave him a chance--and in the process--unearthed another valuable major league infielder.

 

You guys remember John Baker? Another A's castoff no team wanted, but the Marlins seemingly plucked him out of thin air and now he's firmly entrenched in the major leagues.

 

These are just some recent names off the top of my head -- but each one of these guys played a significant role last year. And each one of these guys were given up on too quickly by their respective teams.

 

If the players the Marlins have been able to acquire (for virtually nothing), were good bets to perform in the majors, the Marlins wouldn't have been able to get them at the cost they did.

 

Another way to look at this: We've gone into seasons with big unknowns at positions that none of us were excited about "oh crap, we're counting on Cantu at 3B this year" ... then Cantu goes on to hit 30 HRs and 100 RBI. Same for Uggla before his 2006.

 

Bonifacio struggled last year and everybody wants to give up on him as an everyday player -- all the while the front office is steadfast in their belief in him -- thinking that he can materialize into a solid major league 2b with more experience. How many times have we disagreed with the moves the front office has made only to be pleasantly surprised afterwards? We've been here before.

 

 

Btw Cody was in 3 organizations before becoming a Marlin and Cody is really non-comparable to Bonifacio He was a much better prospect caught in a numbers game with the Dodgers and then I believe the Reds made a huge mistake in trading him...I guess 5'8'' power hitters are not in high demands in MLB. I actually felt the acquisition of Cody was brilliant when it occurred and if you wanna bother backtracking in the archive of the forum I actually indicated he was a wonderful addition at the time and has never let us down since. Cody as a minor leaguer was OPSing around .850 consistently Bonifacio minor league numbers look like a roller coaster So I don't think that is a fair comparison BTW Cody only played about 17 games in the Reds organization when he became a Marlin

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You guys ever let yourselves consider that the reason the Marlins are confidently shopping Uggla and aren't making any aggressive moves to replace him at 2B is because they have a lot of faith in Bonifacio's ability?

 

You guys remember Cody Ross? The guy who was in 4 different organizations before the Marlins acquired him. You know, before Ross became a solid everyday player. He was terrible in his early twenties trying to breakthrough. The Marlins showed a lot of patience in him and it paid off.

 

You guys remember Dan Meyer? The minor league free agent that had been mediocre his entire time with the A's organization. The rest of the league gave up on Meyer's upside, the Marlins didn't. He turned out to be a valuable set up guy for us last year.

 

You guys remember Jorge Cantu? A guy who wasn't even in the major leagues anymore. The front office had faith in his ability, gave him a chance--and in the process--unearthed another valuable major league infielder.

 

You guys remember John Baker? Another A's castoff no team wanted, but the Marlins seemingly plucked him out of thin air and now he's firmly entrenched in the major leagues.

 

These are just some recent names off the top of my head -- but each one of these guys played a significant role last year. And each one of these guys were given up on too quickly by their respective teams.

 

If the players the Marlins have been able to acquire (for virtually nothing), were good bets to perform in the majors, the Marlins wouldn't have been able to get them at the cost they did.

 

Another way to look at this: We've gone into seasons with big unknowns at positions that none of us were excited about "oh crap, we're counting on Cantu at 3B this year" ... then Cantu goes on to hit 30 HRs and 100 RBI. Same for Uggla before his 2006.

 

Bonifacio struggled last year and everybody wants to give up on him as an everyday player -- all the while the front office is steadfast in their belief in him -- thinking that he can materialize into a solid major league 2b with more experience. How many times have we disagreed with the moves the front office has made only to be pleasantly surprised afterwards? We've been here before.

 

 

Btw Cody was in 3 organizations before becoming a Marlin and Cody is really non-comparable to Bonifacio He was a much better prospect caught in a numbers game with the Dodgers and then I believe theReds made a huge mistake in trading him I guess 5'8'' power hitters are not in high demands in MLB I actually the acquisition of Cody when it occurred and if you wanna bother bactracking in the archive of the forum I actually indicated he was a wonderful addition at the time and has never let us down since. Cody as aminor leaguer was OPSing around .850 consistently Bonifacio minor league numbers look like a roller coaster So I don't think that is a fair comparison BTW Cody only played about 17 games in the Reds organization when he became a Marlin

 

Cody Ross and Emilio Bonifacio play two different positions. An outfielder should be outproducing a second basemen offensively.

 

BTW I was trying to make a big-picture point: The Marlins do a very good job evaluating talent ... and wasn't really too worried about the precise details about each player's background. Thank you for the correction, though.

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You guys ever let yourselves consider that the reason the Marlins are confidently shopping Uggla and aren't making any aggressive moves to replace him at 2B is because they have a lot of faith in Bonifacio's ability?

 

You guys remember Cody Ross? The guy who was in 4 different organizations before the Marlins acquired him. You know, before Ross became a solid everyday player. He was terrible in his early twenties trying to breakthrough. The Marlins showed a lot of patience in him and it paid off.

 

You guys remember Dan Meyer? The minor league free agent that had been mediocre his entire time with the A's organization. The rest of the league gave up on Meyer's upside, the Marlins didn't. He turned out to be a valuable set up guy for us last year.

 

You guys remember Jorge Cantu? A guy who wasn't even in the major leagues anymore. The front office had faith in his ability, gave him a chance--and in the process--unearthed another valuable major league infielder.

 

You guys remember John Baker? Another A's castoff no team wanted, but the Marlins seemingly plucked him out of thin air and now he's firmly entrenched in the major leagues.

 

These are just some recent names off the top of my head -- but each one of these guys played a significant role last year. And each one of these guys were given up on too quickly by their respective teams.

 

If the players the Marlins have been able to acquire (for virtually nothing), were good bets to perform in the majors, the Marlins wouldn't have been able to get them at the cost they did.

 

Another way to look at this: We've gone into seasons with big unknowns at positions that none of us were excited about "oh crap, we're counting on Cantu at 3B this year" ... then Cantu goes on to hit 30 HRs and 100 RBI. Same for Uggla before his 2006.

 

Bonifacio struggled last year and everybody wants to give up on him as an everyday player -- all the while the front office is steadfast in their belief in him -- thinking that he can materialize into a solid major league 2b with more experience. How many times have we disagreed with the moves the front office has made only to be pleasantly surprised afterwards? We've been here before.

 

 

 

Don't tell me you're another one of those posters who thinks the FO couldn't possibly make any mistakes. For nearly every positive you list, there's probably a negative. Beinfest and Hill are human, not above questioning.

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Ofcourse they're -- and I don't think they're perfect by any stretch.

 

But it's hard to find an organization right now better at evaluating and prognosticating talent. They've hit big on a number of moves recently--I've listed those ones that stand out (moves GMs maybe hit on once or twice in their entire career).

 

Going back a little bit further, the Dan Uggla and Hanley Ramirez acquisitions were simply genius.

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You guys ever let yourselves consider that the reason the Marlins are confidently shopping Uggla and aren't making any aggressive moves to replace him at 2B is because they have a lot of faith in Bonifacio's ability?

 

You guys remember Cody Ross? The guy who was in 4 different organizations before the Marlins acquired him. You know, before Ross became a solid everyday player. He was terrible in his early twenties trying to breakthrough. The Marlins showed a lot of patience in him and it paid off.

 

You guys remember Dan Meyer? The minor league free agent that had been mediocre his entire time with the A's organization. The rest of the league gave up on Meyer's upside, the Marlins didn't. He turned out to be a valuable set up guy for us last year.

 

You guys remember Jorge Cantu? A guy who wasn't even in the major leagues anymore. The front office had faith in his ability, gave him a chance--and in the process--unearthed another valuable major league infielder.

 

You guys remember John Baker? Another A's castoff no team wanted, but the Marlins seemingly plucked him out of thin air and now he's firmly entrenched in the major leagues.

 

These are just some recent names off the top of my head -- but each one of these guys played a significant role last year. And each one of these guys were given up on too quickly by their respective teams.

 

If the players the Marlins have been able to acquire (for virtually nothing), were good bets to perform in the majors, the Marlins wouldn't have been able to get them at the cost they did.

 

Another way to look at this: We've gone into seasons with big unknowns at positions that none of us were excited about "oh crap, we're counting on Cantu at 3B this year" ... then Cantu goes on to hit 30 HRs and 100 RBI. Same for Uggla before his 2006.

 

Bonifacio struggled last year and everybody wants to give up on him as an everyday player -- all the while the front office is steadfast in their belief in him -- thinking that he can materialize into a solid major league 2b with more experience. How many times have we disagreed with the moves the front office has made only to be pleasantly surprised afterwards? We've been here before.

 

The Marlins have alot of faith in players they have no reason to have faith in. And alot of them are Emilio Bonifacio type players(Abercrombie, De Aza). Players who can run fast but have no real offensive ability.

 

I think you should read some scouting reports on Bonifacio. You would find that Beinfest is in the minority in how he views his potential.

 

Its just the type of ballplayer Beinfest likes for whatever reason.

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I don't think the front office expects anything other than defensive replacement and pinch running/hitting duty from Amezaga. I don't think they have any false hopes Amezaga at 29 is going to turn into anything more than what he already is.

 

I have a BA subscription; and here was their scouting report on Bonifacio after 2007--he was rated their 6th best prospect that year (I haven't been able to find a more recent scouting report--from a credible source--because this was the last year he qualified.):

 

Background: After four so-so pro seasons, Bonifacio moved into the fast lane by batting .321 with 66 steals in high Class A in 2006. He followed up with a good year in Double-A and made his major league debut in September.

 

Strengths: Bonifacio's speed rates as either a 70 or 80 on the 20-80 scouting scale, and he plays with energy and passion. He continues to refine his basestealing, picking pitches and counts and getting good breaks, and he has no fear of getting thrown out (though he did get caught 13 times in 54 Double-A attempts). He's an above-average defender at second base, with sure hands, great range and enough arm for shorstop.

 

Weaknesses: While Bonifacio draws comparisons to Luis Castillo, he doesn't have Castillo's approach at the plate. Bonifacio's swing isn't conducive to the small-ball game he needs to play, and he still doesn't have a good idea of the strike zone. He also hasn't shown the strength to drive the ball, which could lead to problems against quality fastballs at higher levels.

 

The Future: Bonifacio is the kind of player managers love to have in the lineup, but if he doesn't improve at the plate he could end up as a utility player. He'll open the season in Triple-A, with Orlando Hudson and Alberto Callaspo ahead of him in the organization's pecking order.

 

 

source: http://www.baseballa...008/265320.html

 

 

Baseball America also rated him as the organizations best baserunner and best defensive infielder (this was a system full of rangy athletes too) that year.

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Considering he is a free agent and that we eventually trade Uggla, how bout offering Orlando Hudson some sort of deal with the $8 million we save from trading Uggla? He could replace Uggla at 2nd base and keep Bonifacio on the bench where he belongs. You have to remember that we were mentioned in signing him last offseason. Thoughts?

 

 

I don't remember us being interested in Orlando Hudson last year, I think you're thinking about Orlando Cabrera, though I could be wrong.

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You guys ever let yourselves consider that the reason the Marlins are confidently shopping Uggla and aren't making any aggressive moves to replace him at 2B is because they have a lot of faith in Bonifacio's ability?

 

You guys remember Cody Ross? The guy who was in 4 different organizations before the Marlins acquired him. You know, before Ross became a solid everyday player. He was terrible in his early twenties trying to breakthrough. The Marlins showed a lot of patience in him and it paid off.

 

You guys remember Dan Meyer? The minor league free agent that had been mediocre his entire time with the A's organization. The rest of the league gave up on Meyer's upside, the Marlins didn't. He turned out to be a valuable set up guy for us last year.

 

You guys remember Jorge Cantu? A guy who wasn't even in the major leagues anymore. The front office had faith in his ability, gave him a chance--and in the process--unearthed another valuable major league infielder.

 

You guys remember John Baker? Another A's castoff no team wanted, but the Marlins seemingly plucked him out of thin air and now he's firmly entrenched in the major leagues.

 

These are just some recent names off the top of my head -- but each one of these guys played a significant role last year. And each one of these guys were given up on too quickly by their respective teams.

 

If the players the Marlins have been able to acquire (for virtually nothing), were good bets to perform in the majors, the Marlins wouldn't have been able to get them at the cost they did.

 

Another way to look at this: We've gone into seasons with big unknowns at positions that none of us were excited about "oh crap, we're counting on Cantu at 3B this year" ... then Cantu goes on to hit 30 HRs and 100 RBI. Same for Uggla before his 2006.

 

Bonifacio struggled last year and everybody wants to give up on him as an everyday player -- all the while the front office is steadfast in their belief in him -- thinking that he can materialize into a solid major league 2b with more experience. How many times have we disagreed with the moves the front office has made only to be pleasantly surprised afterwards? We've been here before.

 

The Marlins have alot of faith in players they have no reason to have faith in. And alot of them are Emilio Bonifacio type players(Abercrombie, De Aza). Players who can run fast but have no real offensive ability.

 

I think you should read some scouting reports on Bonifacio. You would find that Beinfest is in the minority in how he views his potential.

 

Its just the type of ballplayer Beinfest likes for whatever reason.

Agreed! Beinfest has always been in search of his Chone Figgans a player who can steal 50 plus bases high OBP and can be moved around different positions Is Bonifacio that player? I don't feel he is but time will tell...remember old saying nothing ventured nothing gained. I hated that stupid trade I thought Beinfest dropped the ball big time I hope I am wrong

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People didn't even know who the centerpiece of the Josh Willingham trade was supposed to be. At some point we thought it was PJ Dean (before he vanished and retired), then during the first week of the season we felt it was Bonifacio, now many believe it is Smolinski.

 

Overall, it was a horrible trade when it happen and is still a horrible trade imo. Salary dumps ftw!

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People didn't even know who the centerpiece of the Josh Willingham trade was supposed to be. At some point we thought it was PJ Dean (before he vanished and retired), then during the first week of the season we felt it was Bonifacio, now many believe it is Smolinski.

 

Overall, it was a horrible trade when it happen and is still a horrible trade imo. Salary dumps ftw!

 

 

That was a horrible trade, period.

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People didn't even know who the centerpiece of the Josh Willingham trade was supposed to be. At some point we thought it was PJ Dean (before he vanished and retired), then during the first week of the season we felt it was Bonifacio, now many believe it is Smolinski.

 

Overall, it was a horrible trade when it happen and is still a horrible trade imo. Salary dumps ftw!

 

 

If dean didn't go MIA it wouldn't be a bad trade.

 

Also, keep in mind you're judging it after only one season. What happens if Hammer's back goes out and he never plays again? That's the problem with Hammer is his back, it's a huge huge huge wild card, and it's a reason why his value was so low (Though, likewise, it's why you probably get more value by keeping him rather than trading him).

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