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Torberg's job in jeopardy?


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creditt: espn.com

# The Florida Marlins are playing well and were helped out when staff ace A.J. Burnett returned to the starting rotation last Wednesday, but there are some internal disputes.


Near the end of spring training, club president David Samson wanted manager Jeff Torborg to fire pitching coach Brad Arnsberg, but Torborg refused. Then a week into the season, when Josh Beckett, who has nine career wins, was critical of Ivan Rodriguez's pitch calling, the assault on Arnsberg continued, and got heated enough so that there was some pressure put on Torborg's job. Stay tuned.


# The Marlins were concerned about Alex (Sea Bass) Gonzalez's attitude entering the regular season, but the immensely talented shortstop has been off to a positive start, in terms of performance and effort.


Perry Hill, one of the best infield coaches anywhere, should get a lion's share of the credit for Gonzalez's success.

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Here is another article on the Arnesberg situation.


C/O: Miami Herald


PHILADELPHIA ? Pitching coach Brad Arnsberg's job isn't in immediate danger, but that could change.


ESPN analyst Peter Gammons reported that team president David Samson wanted Arnsberg fired during spring training. According to the story, manager Jeff Torborg refused, but remains under pressure to make a switch.

A source with knowledge of the situation confirmed the Marlins have conducted internal discussions about firing Arnsberg, but nothing is imminent. Whether Arnsberg makes it through the season is contingent on players such as A.J. Burnett, Josh Beckett and Brad Penny developing into the stars everyone projects.


It doesn't appear the Marlins are willing to wait much longer.


A 10-year major league veteran, Arnsberg is in his fourth season as a major league pitching coach and second with the Marlins. He was hired in the same capacity with the Expos on July 20, 2000, while Felipe Alou was still manager. When Torborg replaced Alou on May 31, 2001, Arnsberg remained on the staff.


Under Arnsberg, the 2002 Marlins logged a 4.36 team ERA, the second lowest over the past five seasons despite Burnett, Beckett and Penny all missing significant time with injuries. The 1,104 strikeouts were the third-highest total in franchise history.

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I really don't think it is a problem with the pitching coach. This team doesn't do much when the opportunity arises and they have a bases loaded situation. It is like every time they play, the starter have to be perfect or otherwise they lose the game. Face it, pitchers are going to make mistakes. But the team has to pick them up. Beckett pitched great last night and he deserved to win. The pitch that was hit for a HR was a curveball that would have bounced off the dirt if Jimmy Rollins hadn't pulled his Tiger Woods' swing. But then, how many runners we left on base? 14!!! We had two bases loaded situations and runners on 3rd and 2nd with one out at one time. We barely got 3 runs out of them! Again, how many ways can you score runs with bases loaded? You hit two long flies and you score at least 2 without a hit. (I know... it's not easy... but I have seen this so many times it plays like a predestined basebal script)


What I do question is Torborg's skills as a manager. At this point I would prefer Boles. He seems to have that peculiar annoying habit of not seizing up the opportunity. Leaving Redmond to bat with one out and runners on 3rd and 2nd with the pitcher coming up, and Redmond slumping, and with other options out of the bench, that really does not win any game. Of course, besides Leyland, this team has never had a great manager. We would have to do with what we have [sighs]

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I think Jim Leyland and Tany Perez were great managers for this team. It was sad what we did to Leyland and unfortunate that the team's situation was pretty rough during Perez' tenure. Boles was not a manager for a contender, he simply lacked the fire. I don't know where to put Tolborg though. But I am not especially crazy about his decisions either. :-|

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When I was saying that Tany Perez was a good manager I meant that he was really different from Boles and, in a lot of ways, better than him in the sense that he pushed the team for some kind of legitimate winning spark. That the team didn't perform as expected... oh well... hasn't that been the story of our lives? :-)

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I liked Tony Perez because he teached players what they are doing wrong and how to improve it plus he spoke spanish and english and communicated better with The latin players.


Boles was very good but wasnt too aggressive. He did not know how to manage somehings but was a verysolid plyaer ( he would do good managing the marlins in 2003)


Torborg is good but needs to improve on when to take out pitchers and when to put them in. He isnt good on putting players in and out. He keeps on putting Vlad and Armando and both of them always blow leads, every single time!

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1: Leyland (Will always be)

2: Boles (Father of this team)

3: Lacheman (Pretty solid)

4: Torborg (25-75)

5: Perez (zero.. worst)

I tend to agree with this assesment.



Leyland is the best manager in Marlin history so far.



But...he succeeded only with talent around him, he always was a better skipper with good talent surronding him and 97 validated it.



Boles and Lach I think you could toss back and forth...Lach did a 'decent' job as the first skipper of this team...but Boles did an even better job, especially in his first stint paving the way for Leyland....Boles' second stint was not as successful granted, but the situation had changed, the Marlins were deconstructing them team instead of constructing it. If the front office had allowed him to continue to develop the young talent into a winner than things would of been great. Of course when he was fired, I thought the Marlins were on the cusp of winning consistently. Bringing along Tony Perez was simply a PR move. He sucks as a manager. He knows hitting and serves well as a roving hitting instructor, special assistant to the GM....but as far as managing, he sucks. That has been proven twice now. Then bringing in Torborg was only because Loria had ties to him. Torborg has never been a good let alone great manager....See his previous experience (White Sox, Chicago; Metropolitions, New York)


I await the day when the Marlins bring in that skipper who either is a young and upcoming mind in baseball or a proven winner. Nothing else will be acceptable if you want to move forward.

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My point exactly. I don't consider tany perez a great manager since his numbers speak otherwise. But he was different in that he simply told his players what they were doing wrong with no bs.


The essential problem with the way torlborg manages is his timing. Sometimes he puts a pitcher who you can perfectly see he is tiring already to pitch the 7th or 8th simply because he has been pitching good. However, in that previous inning, he might have given up 1 run, a couple of walks, and escape from a jam thanks to a double play. Then he brings him again the next inning and bye-bye lead and bye-bye game. Also, I see Alamanza as a situational lefty, maybe to pitch against lefties although I don't know his numbers from the top of my head right now. He leaves him there for an entire inning sometimes when we all know he either strikes out everyone, or walks the bases loaded, or gives up 3 hrs.


I guess my problem with torlborg is an issue of second-guessing.

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I was not impressed when Tony Perez was the manager because he stopped our running game almost completely. That is one of the main aspects of this team that they can run whenever they want and it makes the pitchers very nervous. I like Torberg. He has a good relationship with the players. The one thing I did not like last year but he seems to be correcting it this year is giving his bench a chance to play more. It is important to have all players swing the bat as otherwise they lose their timing. Just look at Redmond. Last year he hit so well for us when he caught but so far this year he just strikes out. He needs more playing time but to be honest I have more confidence when Pudge is catching. As far as Leyland goes I read an article that said that yes he was a very good manager when he managed a winning team (1997) but did nothing after he left us for Colorado. Anybody can manage a real good hitting team. I did like Boles very much. I thought he did a great job with all the young players we had in 1998 but the problem with him was that he didn't stick up for his team enough. Too soft spoken. Sometimes a manager does have to fight for his team.

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Leyland did nothing for Colorado after what he went through with the Marlins in 1998. Seeing his team being sold in pieces after the World Series and replaced with inexperienced players, and then losing 108 games really took his toll on Leyland. I read an article after he decided to retire saying that that year took away the fire to manage in him.


However, he managed the Pirates from 1986 to 1996 and took them 3 times in a row to the playoffs, 1990 to 1992. He lost to the Reds in 1990 and then 2 straight times to the Braves. In those 3 years his team won 90+ games. His career stats are 14 years, 2200 games, 1069 wins and 1131 loses.


Rene Lachemann never had a winning record and none of his teams won more than 75 games, expect the 1982 Mariners who won 76 and lost 86. Overall, he managed for 8 years, 987 games, 428 wins and 559 loses.


Boles also never had a winning record. He managed for 4 years, 446 games, 205 wins and 241 loses, all with the Marlins.


Tany Perez was manager only 2 years and his record is not really indicative of either a bad manager or a good manager. 74 wins and 84 loses.


Torborg is another story. He had 2 years with a winning record with Chicago (White Sox). In 1990 his team went 94 and 68, and the following year 87 and 75. Overall, has being a manager for 10 years, 1314 games, 618 wins and 696 loses (not counting 2003).


So, these are the results:


1. Jim Leyland

2. Jeff Torborg

3. John Boles

4. Rene Lachemann

5. Tany Perez

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