Posted August 20, 201014 yr Should've posted this before we won yesterday, so it would've been a perfect .500...... I just added it up, and from the 2004 season on, our cumulative record is 546 wins and 545 losses. This includes our current 60-60 mark this year. While we were great in one season bursts earlier in our history, we've since settled into being the quintessential .500 franchise, one that is neither great nor could benefit from high draft pick after high draft pick (ala Tampa Bay.) Thought it'd be an interesting figure to bring up.
August 20, 201014 yr Should've posted this before we won yesterday, so it would've been a perfect .500...... I just added it up, and from the 2004 season on, our cumulative record is 546 wins and 545 losses. This includes our current 60-60 mark this year. While we were great in one season bursts earlier in our history, we've since settled into being the quintessential .500 franchise, one that is neither great nor could benefit from high draft pick after high draft pick (ala Tampa Bay.) Thought it'd be an interesting figure to bring up. I have wondered if it is better to get really bad, to get better, since it seems we can't get really good with the core we have now. Do you think the 2006 team really screwed over the plan, which could have been to be bad for a couple of years (people already weren't coming to the games so did it matter ?) and we could have gotten the Heywards, Harpers and Strausburgs ?
August 20, 201014 yr Should've posted this before we won yesterday, so it would've been a perfect .500...... I just added it up, and from the 2004 season on, our cumulative record is 546 wins and 545 losses. This includes our current 60-60 mark this year. While we were great in one season bursts earlier in our history, we've since settled into being the quintessential .500 franchise, one that is neither great nor could benefit from high draft pick after high draft pick (ala Tampa Bay.) Thought it'd be an interesting figure to bring up. I have wondered if it is better to get really bad, to get better, since it seems we can't get really good with the core we have now. Do you think the 2006 team really screwed over the plan, which could have been to be bad for a couple of years (people already weren't coming to the games so did it matter ?) and we could have gotten the Heywards, Harpers and Strausburgs ? I'd rather stick with OK teams than be bottom feeders just to get high draft picks, but that's just me.
August 20, 201014 yr Btw, the Marlins had a chance at Heyward but decided they could take Stanton later in the draft (correct me if I'm wrong).
August 20, 201014 yr Btw, the Marlins had a chance at Heyward but decided they could take Stanton later in the draft (correct me if I'm wrong). tehn they should have taken both and traded one if they needed to, and if one bombed they still had one good one. Can you imagine what our outfield and future would be with both of them ???
August 20, 201014 yr Btw, the Marlins had a chance at Heyward but decided they could take Stanton later in the draft (correct me if I'm wrong). It's up to debate, but most believed that Heyward would only sign with the Braves and would not sign with nay other team
August 20, 201014 yr Should've posted this before we won yesterday, so it would've been a perfect .500...... I just added it up, and from the 2004 season on, our cumulative record is 546 wins and 545 losses. This includes our current 60-60 mark this year. While we were great in one season bursts earlier in our history, we've since settled into being the quintessential .500 franchise, one that is neither great nor could benefit from high draft pick after high draft pick (ala Tampa Bay.) Thought it'd be an interesting figure to bring up. I have wondered if it is better to get really bad, to get better, since it seems we can't get really good with the core we have now. Do you think the 2006 team really screwed over the plan, which could have been to be bad for a couple of years (people already weren't coming to the games so did it matter ?) and we could have gotten the Heywards, Harpers and Strausburgs ? I'd rather stick with OK teams than be bottom feeders just to get high draft picks, but that's just me. yeah but with a good front office a bottom feeder becomes a contender in a couple of years - example A Sand Diego, example B Tampa Bay, example C Cinicinnati. Meanwhile we stay mediocre.
August 20, 201014 yr by the way our all time record is 1,343-1,463 (.479) just ahead of Colorado 1,343-1,469 (.478). I guess they have played 6 more games because of rainouts in Miami (or maybe elsewhere) that were never made up. Have they been to the playoffs 3 times to our 2 ? That could also explain the difference.
August 20, 201014 yr Author Just to be clear: my post wasn't meant to complain or wish that we'd been worse over the last 7 years....the baseball draft is more of a crapshoot than any other sport and yes, we picked Dominguez over Heyward. I mentioned Tampa Bay because they were bad for so long, and then after striking gold with Longoria and Price, they're one of the best teams in baseball. I'm grateful that we've at least had something to play for the last few Augusts and Septembers. Our record just surprised the hell out of me -- it shows just how stuck in mediocrity we've been, and how far we're removed from the "magical one year runs".
August 20, 201014 yr Btw, the Marlins had a chance at Heyward but decided they could take Stanton later in the draft (correct me if I'm wrong). It's up to debate, but most believed that Heyward would only sign with the Braves and would not sign with nay other team If the $ had been right, he would have signed - they all do. :thumbup
August 20, 201014 yr Heyward could have gone to college if he didn't sign with the team who drafted him. Some teams, like the Yankees can assemble tremendous amounts of (proven) talent so that they can have a strong team every year. Most other playoff appearances seem to happen when there is a competitive (aka .500ish) team in place, but then some draft picks pan out, some FA excel, some players have career years, etc. And with some of thosw factors plus a little luck, a .500 team shoots up to 90 wins and makes the playoffs. That's what happened in 2003 imo.
August 20, 201014 yr Since I started following the Marlins, we are 380-387 It's your fault we're not in the playoffs every year.
August 20, 201014 yr We should be more than a .500 team next season and beyond. I don't think anyone was realistically expecting this season to be better than that almost-90-win season we just had.
August 20, 201014 yr Since I started following the Marlins, we are 380-387 It's your fault we're not in the playoffs every year. I know, and I think the only way to right the "curse" is actually attend my 1st Marlins game. When that is, I do not know
August 20, 201014 yr I'll quote a post I made a few weeks ago. It's pretty shocking once you realize who hasn't made the playoffs along with us since 2005. What I meant between the contrast of great and terrible is that I'd rather have a team that goes to both sides of the standings. I don't know about you, but I want to see this team make the playoffs pretty badly. Regardless if you're 'contending' or bad, you spend October at home if you don't fill one of those playoff spots. It's not like the Marlins contend as much as some people say. I can't remember the last time this team led ANY standings past June. If we'd lead the Wild Card or the division towards the end, that's better to take in - but we're constantly trying to catch up and never do. It's damn frustrating. Take a look at the AL Central. The Twins, Tigers, Indians and White Sox have all gone since 2006 (DET through the WC in 06.) Those teams are interesting because the playoffs are fresh in everyone's mind. 20 out of 30 teams have made the playoffs since 2005. The only teams to not make it are the Marlins, Nationals, Pirates, Reds, Giants, Mariners, Blue Jays, Orioles, Royals, Rangers. The Rangers are going to make it this year, and it's very probable that at least one of the Reds/Giants will make it as well. Out of those teams (including the ones that have a legitimate opportunity this year), only the Marlins have finished over .500 more than once since 2005. So honestly, out of all the teams that 'compete,' we are the only ones that don't have a playoff in 5 years. I acknowledge that the team rebuilt and was out of contention from 2006-2008, but I won't discard data from those years because my intentions aren't to prove just how irregular our situation is, but to show the frustration surrounding this franchise as a whole. Also, this is in no way a criticism of the front office - I'm merely showing why I'm frustrated at our 'contention' and how it leads to nowhere.
August 20, 201014 yr I'll quote a post I made a few weeks ago. It's pretty shocking once you realize who hasn't made the playoffs along with us since 2005. What I meant between the contrast of great and terrible is that I'd rather have a team that goes to both sides of the standings. I don't know about you, but I want to see this team make the playoffs pretty badly. Regardless if you're 'contending' or bad, you spend October at home if you don't fill one of those playoff spots. It's not like the Marlins contend as much as some people say. I can't remember the last time this team led ANY standings past June. If we'd lead the Wild Card or the division towards the end, that's better to take in - but we're constantly trying to catch up and never do. It's damn frustrating. Take a look at the AL Central. The Twins, Tigers, Indians and White Sox have all gone since 2006 (DET through the WC in 06.) Those teams are interesting because the playoffs are fresh in everyone's mind. 20 out of 30 teams have made the playoffs since 2005. The only teams to not make it are the Marlins, Nationals, Pirates, Reds, Giants, Mariners, Blue Jays, Orioles, Royals, Rangers. The Rangers are going to make it this year, and it's very probable that at least one of the Reds/Giants will make it as well. Out of those teams (including the ones that have a legitimate opportunity this year), only the Marlins have finished over .500 more than once since 2005. So honestly, out of all the teams that 'compete,' we are the only ones that don't have a playoff in 5 years. I acknowledge that the team rebuilt and was out of contention from 2006-2008, but I won't discard data from those years because my intentions aren't to prove just how irregular our situation is, but to show the frustration surrounding this franchise as a whole. Also, this is in no way a criticism of the front office - I'm merely showing why I'm frustrated at our 'contention' and how it leads to nowhere. I've said many times that this front office's gameplan is not a blueprint for winning, but a blueprint for mediocrity. And they're lauded for doing so just because of the payroll, when there has been no real attempt to improve on a core that has proven it is capable of winning a respectable amount of ballgames. The only way this team could ever become a playoff team is if they opened up the pocket book and brought in some excellent free agents to supplement the core we have. I know some will interpret that as saying the payroll is the problem, but the real problem is that this organization simply isn't good at making their young talent work for them. They simply aren't good enough to do something like the Rays did with little payroll because in the years where the Rays culture was changing, they were shipping off complementary players and getting future key contributors, not to mention the Delmon Young trade. Meanwhile almost every guy we've sent out since 2006 was either a trade where we clearly lost or a trade when a formerly valuable trade piece was simply gotten rid of when his value was at its lowest. If you gave the A's, Twins, or Rays organizations the core of talent we have had over the last couple of years, they would have found a way to make the playoffs at least once in a national league that's been fairly wide open.
August 21, 201014 yr I've said many times that this front office's gameplan is not a blueprint for winning, but a blueprint for mediocrity. Rubbish. Plans don't always work out. Considering payroll and resources for the last dozen years, it's amazing that they haven't lost 90+ games every single year. A WS win is something you could expect, if you were lucky as a small-market team, once every 30 years.
August 21, 201014 yr I've said many times that this front office's gameplan is not a blueprint for winning, but a blueprint for mediocrity. Rubbish. Plans don't always work out. Considering payroll and resources for the last dozen years, it's amazing that they haven't lost 90+ games every single year. A WS win is something you could expect, if you were lucky as a small-market team, once every 30 years. Yes, but you should not fail to make the playoffs in all 29 other seasons. Plans don't always work out, but usually work better than not having one.
August 21, 201014 yr I say Heyward's E:60 and I know that he wanted to desperately sign with the Braves not only because it was his home team but because of the death to his best friend and how he wanted to always take care of his mom (his best friend's mom) because she meant alot to him. He wears the number 22 in tribute of his best friend and for his best friends mom.
August 21, 201014 yr Btw, the Marlins had a chance at Heyward but decided they could take Stanton later in the draft (correct me if I'm wrong). tehn they should have taken both and traded one if they needed to, and if one bombed they still had one good one. Can you imagine what our outfield and future would be with both of them ??? :o Where's my bib because I can't stop drooling? ?
August 21, 201014 yr I've said many times that this front office's gameplan is not a blueprint for winning, but a blueprint for mediocrity. Rubbish. Plans don't always work out. Considering payroll and resources for the last dozen years, it's amazing that they haven't lost 90+ games every single year. A WS win is something you could expect, if you were lucky as a small-market team, once every 30 years. Yes, but you should not fail to make the playoffs in all 29 other seasons. Plans don't always work out, but usually work better than not having one. They've made the play-offs under Loria once in 8 years and won it all. That's above reasonable expectations for a small-market team with a minimal payroll. Every owner has a plan. Wayne bought one WS. Loria has had a plan each year. It worked once and now he's working on it with a new stadium and some real revenue in the near future. By the odds, we should expect to win the WS again sometime in the next 73 years. I expect that we'll get our 27% of post-season appearances over the coming decades and perhaps even another WS win, but I have no unreasonable expectations.
August 21, 201014 yr I've said many times that this front office's gameplan is not a blueprint for winning, but a blueprint for mediocrity. Rubbish. Plans don't always work out. Considering payroll and resources for the last dozen years, it's amazing that they haven't lost 90+ games every single year. A WS win is something you could expect, if you were lucky as a small-market team, once every 30 years. Yes, but you should not fail to make the playoffs in all 29 other seasons. Plans don't always work out, but usually work better than not having one. They've made the play-offs under Loria once in 8 years and won it all. That's above reasonable expectations for a small-market team with a minimal payroll. Every owner has a plan. Wayne bought one WS. Loria has had a plan each year. It worked once and now he's working on it with a new stadium and some real revenue in the near future. By the odds, we should expect to win the WS again sometime in the next 73 years. I expect that we'll get our 27% of post-season appearances over the coming decades and perhaps even another WS win, but I have no unreasonable expectations. I can see the plan for 2003, though ironically the plan at the get go (use speed like crazy to frustrate opposing pitchers) wasn't working and they fired Torborg. I wasn't paying attention to in-depth franchise issues, but I thought it was crazy that they shipped out a player like Preston Wilson and got Juan Pierre, a mere leadoff hitter, in return. It turns out that worked. Also, that team was supplemented by Preston Wilson. If you can tell me what the plan is (and honestly, these things are usually plainly evident) with the current group of guys is, then maybe I'll believe there is one. But right now, all we're doing is trying to lock up a couple of guys to keep them around, and thats about it. Locking them up will keep us from losing their talents, but we haven't been a playoff team at any time with them, so the only thing that will change is that they've gotten more expensive.
August 21, 201014 yr 2004: 83-79 2005: 83-79 2006: 78-84 2007: 71-91 2008: 84-77 2009: 87-75 This is all unfair. The team has had a plan. 2004 & 2005, the plan was to win. Those two teams were disappointing. You can't really say they weren't playing to win, though. They even gave Carlos Delgado a contract to play 1B and add another power bat in the lineup, back in those days. 2006 was the rebuilding year, where the present core came in. 78-84 was a successful rebuilding year, especially considering the fact they had started 11-31. It showed that the front office knew how to evaluate talent. 2007 was extremely disappointing. Since 2007, the team saw a 13.5 game improvement in 2008, and I believe the 3rd best record in franchise history last year. An 87 win team is not far off from being a playoff team, so to say they've stayed content being average is BS. That's above average / a couple of games going your way away from a playoff caliber year. This year has been disappointing again because last year's production + another year of experience = somewhat better results were expected, and it didn't happen, barring a miracle over the last 41 games. To say they're content with mediocrity though isn't true. There have been improvements the past couple of years, and they've spent money on the core they believed could get them to the playoffs (because the team has come close/made it exciting until the final weeks of September the past few years). It's not easy to make the playoffs in baseball. Only 4 playoff spots per league. This isn't basketball/hockey. Ultimately, the goal is to make the playoffs and win every year, but that is extremely difficult in this sport, especially when you add in the payroll factor. Also, factor in the difficulty of divisions. We had a better record last year than the winner of the AL Central division. Sometimes, a playoff berth isn't indicative of the type of team you built. This year, teams like Boston and Toronto are getting screwed simply because they play in the AL East; put them in any other division, and they are playoff teams.
August 21, 201014 yr The plan? Hey, I'm not Beinfest or Loria. They have a good core and the incentive to add to it to be competitive going into the new park. I'm quite happy to leave it to them to execute whatever their plan is. I have no unreasonable expectations since the odds are that they will probably fail to win another WS anytime soon while making their fair share of post-season appearances. The idea that they haven't had or don't now have a plan to be other than mediocre is sort of silly. Loria doesn't sit in the stands and yell at umpires because he doesn't give a damn.
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