I just don't see Baker coming back here. They are really going with the mantra of "Pitching, defense, speed." Not one thing Baker fills.

 

 

Once again, you're taking the comment too far. Paulino isn't staying here; it's pretty obvious.

 

Once again, you're misreading the meaning of the comments. I also think it's obvious that he isn't coming back here. But not because of the drug suspension. It will be because of what he is potentially going to get in arbitration will be more than he will be worth as a back up catcher for us. Other avenues are far more tantalizing and cost effective.

 

If they can't work him into some type of package deal then he most likely will be released. Everyone around here will say it's the drug thing. But I would place $$$ the FO says pretty much what I have stated. It's common sense, especially given the history the team has of giving 2nd chances to drug violations.

I agree. Don't know what the stats say but Paulino did a reasonably good job defensively. Got to be a pretty good hitter too, but I guess we all found out how he did that.

What other drug suspensions have the Marlins had? I can't remember.

 

 

I believe you are jumping to an incorrect conclusion there. From what I read it wasn't a performance enhancing supplement, it was a dietary one. And given Ronnie's size and constant overuse, I find that at least more believable.

I think you are being naive.

 

The actual substance was never disclosed but it could have easily been something that contained bumetanide, which is a diuretic found in banned (by leagues) weight loss/dietary drugs. Professional athletes use this to mask performance enhancing drugs by increasing the possibility of a negative urine test. We don't know for sure, but Ronnie's excuse is just as believable as Manny's was when he got caught taking women fertility drugs.

 

No, he wasn't caught with a PED proper, but these drugs are banned for a reason because they often signify PED use.

 

And what you say very well could be true. I'm just not in the habit of calling a guy a liar that hasn't shown it in the past. He seems to have been a very open guy here that was a team player and was VERY apologetic to the team and fans after the suspension was publisized. You all want to believe, for whatever reason, that he lied through his teeth then I suppose you have the right.

I just don't see Baker coming back here. They are really going with the mantra of "Pitching, defense, speed." Not one thing Baker fills.

 

Good thing they decided to bring in John Buck to fulfill this mantra..who was ranked second last (before Ramon Hernandez) in ML catcher defense. I guess they really take "pitching, defense, speed" very seriously.

 

And you know how seriously I take defensive stats. More than likely someone could go digging and find some that had him ranked much higher. Whatever.

 

They have been showing they are going with this mantra this year. They had their eye on Buck for quite some time. I've read some really good comments from other's that have him working well with the pitchers and should be an asset here (and in your defense I've seen some not so kind). Maybe, just maybe, someone in the FO had some folks out there watching him, read some of those other stats, and decided he was better than the ones you posted. Just maybe. I have no idea. What I do know is that Baker dosen't fit any of those criteria, and may be even worse coming off TJS. And that was the point, no matter how hard you tried to turn it into something else.

I agree. Don't know what the stats say but Paulino did a reasonably good job defensively. Got to be a pretty good hitter too, but I guess we all found out how he did that.

What other drug suspensions have the Marlins had? I can't remember.

 

 

I believe you are jumping to an incorrect conclusion there. From what I read it wasn't a performance enhancing supplement, it was a dietary one. And given Ronnie's size and constant overuse, I find that at least more believable.

I think you are being naive.

 

The actual substance was never disclosed but it could have easily been something that contained bumetanide, which is a diuretic found in banned (by leagues) weight loss/dietary drugs. Professional athletes use this to mask performance enhancing drugs by increasing the possibility of a negative urine test. We don't know for sure, but Ronnie's excuse is just as believable as Manny's was when he got caught taking women fertility drugs.

 

No, he wasn't caught with a PED proper, but these drugs are banned for a reason because they often signify PED use.

 

And what you say very well could be true. I'm just not in the habit of calling a guy a liar that hasn't shown it in the past. He seems to have been a very open guy here that was a team player and was VERY apologetic to the team and fans after the suspension was publisized. You all want to believe, for whatever reason, that he lied through his teeth then I suppose you have the right.

I don't see how he differs from any other ballplayer that got caught taking something he shouldn't have been taking. They always sound apologetic and play dumb about getting caught. Just because he sounds "sorry" doesn't really change anything or make him less guilty.

 

Not to mention that someone who violated MLB drug policy shouldn't be in a position to be given the benefit of the doubt.

Really like Buck's attitude. Sounds like a good dude who is really excited to be in Florida.. and doesn't sound like a guy who will mail it in after receiving his only pay day. He'll be a good Fish

I just don't see Baker coming back here. They are really going with the mantra of "Pitching, defense, speed." Not one thing Baker fills.

 

Good thing they decided to bring in John Buck to fulfill this mantra..who was ranked second last (before Ramon Hernandez) in ML catcher defense. I guess they really take "pitching, defense, speed" very seriously.

 

And you know how seriously I take defensive stats. More than likely someone could go digging and find some that had him ranked much higher. Whatever.

 

They have been showing they are going with this mantra this year. They had their eye on Buck for quite some time. I've read some really good comments from other's that have him working well with the pitchers and should be an asset here (and in your defense I've seen some not so kind). Maybe, just maybe, someone in the FO had some folks out there watching him, read some of those other stats, and decided he was better than the ones you posted. Just maybe. I have no idea. What I do know is that Baker dosen't fit any of those criteria, and may be even worse coming off TJS. And that was the point, no matter how hard you tried to turn it into something else.

Just because you might care about defensive stats doesn't mean they don't exist. Scouting reports tend to confirm this too. He's bad defensively.

 

And they offered a huge longterm deal to Uggla, who's also bad defensively. And the Marlins are considering but Chris Coghlan in CF.

 

I think you are taking this "mantra" too seriously.

Really like Buck's attitude. Sounds like a good dude who is really excited to be in Florida.. and doesn't sound like a guy who will mail it in after receiving his only pay day. He'll be a good Fish

 

 

Do you have a link to an article or interview or anything? TYIA

Here's some clips with master interviewer Joe Capozzi on the YouTubez where he says all the usual new teammate stuff.

 

 

 

links

I can say this much, if the difference between Victor Martinez for 4 years or John Buck for 3 Years was 30 million dollars....then I'm happy the Marlins signed him quickly and in retrospect cheaply.

 

I'm sure he'd want closer to 8 a year if Martinez' deal was going through before his.

I'm not sure what one contract has to do with the other.

 

It was pretty well-known that Victor Martinez was, far and away, the best catcher on the market (even if he sucks, defensively). Buck is coming off a career year; Martinez has been a good hitter his whole entire career. They were both probably overpaid. However, Victor Martinez is a legit proven bat, who would've gotten a lot more than Buck, regardless.

 

The Marlins were the main team that was interested in Buck. The majority of the other teams interested in Buck wanted him as a platoon catcher. The Victor Martinez signing shouldn't make you feel any better about the Buck deal. You either liked it, or you don't, imo.

I'm not sure what one contract has to do with the other.

 

It was pretty well-known that Victor Martinez was, far and away, the best catcher on the market (even if he sucks, defensively). Buck is coming off a career year; Martinez has been a good hitter his whole entire career. They were both probably overpaid. However, Victor Martinez is a legit proven bat, who would've gotten a lot more than Buck, regardless.

 

The Marlins were the main team that was interested in Buck. The majority of the other teams interested in Buck wanted him as a platoon catcher. The Victor Martinez signing shouldn't make you feel any better about the Buck deal. You either liked it, or you don't, imo.

 

 

IMO, Victor Martinez' contract size would have boosted Bucks a bit higher. Comign off his career year, he was not the player Martinez is or was, but he was still a serviceable option to those teams who lost out on Martinez.

 

Now the market may be smaller for a catcher with Buck and Victor off the market, but Martinez' contract would have been a jumping off point for both any player and team looking to engage in dialogue.

 

4 years and 50 million dollars is significatly more money the 3/18.

 

While Martinez may be a great catcher, buck proved to be good---not great. He would have been lined up for possibly 3 at 8 or 9 million a year had he waited. Some other team would have overpaid to get him. Just because that is what the market would have dictated.

 

With the Martinez deal setting the market higher, I am curious to see what guys like Torrealba, Molina (is he available?) and Paulino would be close to getting. I see Paulino getting 3 million just because of the market thats out there.

 

It can also be argued though, Bucks contract bumped up Martinez value---sayign Look what he got, Martinez is worth double that atleast.

I just don't see Baker coming back here. They are really going with the mantra of "Pitching, defense, speed." Not one thing Baker fills.

 

Good thing they decided to bring in John Buck to fulfill this mantra..who was ranked second last (before Ramon Hernandez) in ML catcher defense. I guess they really take "pitching, defense, speed" very seriously.

 

And you know how seriously I take defensive stats. More than likely someone could go digging and find some that had him ranked much higher. Whatever.

 

They have been showing they are going with this mantra this year. They had their eye on Buck for quite some time. I've read some really good comments from other's that have him working well with the pitchers and should be an asset here (and in your defense I've seen some not so kind). Maybe, just maybe, someone in the FO had some folks out there watching him, read some of those other stats, and decided he was better than the ones you posted. Just maybe. I have no idea. What I do know is that Baker dosen't fit any of those criteria, and may be even worse coming off TJS. And that was the point, no matter how hard you tried to turn it into something else.

Just because you might care about defensive stats doesn't mean they don't exist. Scouting reports tend to confirm this too. He's bad defensively.And they offered a huge longterm deal to Uggla, who's also bad defensively. And the Marlins are considering but Chris Coghlan in CF.

 

I think you are taking this "mantra" too seriously.

 

And some have him as around average. Just depends on which ones you want to take seriously on any player. Or, more realistically, the one that matches an opinion you have already formed on any particular player. They all differ so much. Example....At near the 2/3s of last season I said Gaby was at best an average defensive player. Lou jumped all over me, complete with name calling and mud slinging, and said the stats he uses had Gaby listed as a top 5 defender. Someone else chimed in with the stats they use had him rated 16th. Someone else had their stats showing 24th. Depends on which ones you want to use at any given time. But I figure add them up, take the average, and Gaby was an average at best defender. But I never said those type of stats don't exist. Just that I don't take them seriously. I don't care what new formula the experts are coming up with next that will make the "best" formula at this time a piece of crap.

 

I think CC going to CF is smoke and mirrors. But he did say he wanted the chance to play it and had even asked the FO to let him try. I still firmly believe a real CFer will be brought in and hopefully CC goes back to LF.

 

Long term contract to Uggla? Sure they did. But I think they knew he wasn't going to come off that 5/71 by that much. Before his demands became public, and then confirmed, I thought they were close in $$$ amount per year, just off 1 year in length of contract. Just about everyone here thought the same thing. The difference between 4/48 and 5/71 is HUGE. Especially for a guy that will be 31 in March and would not budge off his asking price. The FO saved face with the fan base and dumped an ungodly asking price off on someone else.

 

It's not me taking that mantra so seriously. It's the FO, and most notably Loria chiming in more than in the past. If you can't see it, you just don't want to.

I agree. Don't know what the stats say but Paulino did a reasonably good job defensively. Got to be a pretty good hitter too, but I guess we all found out how he did that.

What other drug suspensions have the Marlins had? I can't remember.

 

 

I believe you are jumping to an incorrect conclusion there. From what I read it wasn't a performance enhancing supplement, it was a dietary one. And given Ronnie's size and constant overuse, I find that at least more believable.

I think you are being naive.

 

The actual substance was never disclosed but it could have easily been something that contained bumetanide, which is a diuretic found in banned (by leagues) weight loss/dietary drugs. Professional athletes use this to mask performance enhancing drugs by increasing the possibility of a negative urine test. We don't know for sure, but Ronnie's excuse is just as believable as Manny's was when he got caught taking women fertility drugs.

 

No, he wasn't caught with a PED proper, but these drugs are banned for a reason because they often signify PED use.

 

And what you say very well could be true. I'm just not in the habit of calling a guy a liar that hasn't shown it in the past. He seems to have been a very open guy here that was a team player and was VERY apologetic to the team and fans after the suspension was publisized. You all want to believe, for whatever reason, that he lied through his teeth then I suppose you have the right.

I don't see how he differs from any other ballplayer that got caught taking something he shouldn't have been taking. They always sound apologetic and play dumb about getting caught. Just because he sounds "sorry" doesn't really change anything or make him less guilty.

 

Not to mention that someone who violated MLB drug policy shouldn't be in a position to be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

Of course it dosen't make him any less guilty. He did it, he admitted to it, he apologized, and you move on. Most fans recognize that players are just people, and people make mistakes. They don't hold a grudge forever. They may not totally forget the incident, but are willing to give second, and in some cases 3rd and 4th chances. In Paulino's case, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and wish him well. I think it was rather stupid because if what he said is true, and I have no basis to believe it isn't, then he should have/could have used the avenues open to him to have that supplement checked out completely before using it. He didn't. Unfortunetly, alot of guys don't. In this case. stupid was a crime.

 

I understand where you are coming from. I just refuse to believe you are in the majority. And as proof just look at the players that have fessed up, did their punsihments if any, and were welcomed back by the fans. That's a pretty long list. The ones that aren't forgiven are the ones that refuse to fess up. And the sad part about that is that some of them may not even have something to fess up about. For them it's the company they kept and the public's perception of things as they transpired.

I'm not sure what one contract has to do with the other.

 

It was pretty well-known that Victor Martinez was, far and away, the best catcher on the market (even if he sucks, defensively). Buck is coming off a career year; Martinez has been a good hitter his whole entire career. They were both probably overpaid. However, Victor Martinez is a legit proven bat, who would've gotten a lot more than Buck, regardless.

 

The Marlins were the main team that was interested in Buck. The majority of the other teams interested in Buck wanted him as a platoon catcher. The Victor Martinez signing shouldn't make you feel any better about the Buck deal. You either liked it, or you don't, imo.

 

 

IMO, Victor Martinez' contract size would have boosted Bucks a bit higher. Comign off his career year, he was not the player Martinez is or was, but he was still a serviceable option to those teams who lost out on Martinez.

 

Now the market may be smaller for a catcher with Buck and Victor off the market, but Martinez' contract would have been a jumping off point for both any player and team looking to engage in dialogue.

 

4 years and 50 million dollars is significatly more money the 3/18.

 

While Martinez may be a great catcher, buck proved to be good---not great. He would have been lined up for possibly 3 at 8 or 9 million a year had he waited. Some other team would have overpaid to get him. Just because that is what the market would have dictated.

 

With the Martinez deal setting the market higher, I am curious to see what guys like Torrealba, Molina (is he available?) and Paulino would be close to getting. I see Paulino getting 3 million just because of the market thats out there.

 

It can also be argued though, Bucks contract bumped up Martinez value---sayign Look what he got, Martinez is worth double that atleast.

 

I'm with Piazza on this one. IMO, one player's contract does affect another's. Just as an example, I think the Padres and the Cards are going to pay the price for Howard's contract.

I'm not sure what one contract has to do with the other.

 

It was pretty well-known that Victor Martinez was, far and away, the best catcher on the market (even if he sucks, defensively). Buck is coming off a career year; Martinez has been a good hitter his whole entire career. They were both probably overpaid. However, Victor Martinez is a legit proven bat, who would've gotten a lot more than Buck, regardless.

 

The Marlins were the main team that was interested in Buck. The majority of the other teams interested in Buck wanted him as a platoon catcher. The Victor Martinez signing shouldn't make you feel any better about the Buck deal. You either liked it, or you don't, imo.

 

 

IMO, Victor Martinez' contract size would have boosted Bucks a bit higher. Comign off his career year, he was not the player Martinez is or was, but he was still a serviceable option to those teams who lost out on Martinez.

 

Now the market may be smaller for a catcher with Buck and Victor off the market, but Martinez' contract would have been a jumping off point for both any player and team looking to engage in dialogue.

 

4 years and 50 million dollars is significatly more money the 3/18.

 

While Martinez may be a great catcher, buck proved to be good---not great. He would have been lined up for possibly 3 at 8 or 9 million a year had he waited. Some other team would have overpaid to get him. Just because that is what the market would have dictated.

 

With the Martinez deal setting the market higher, I am curious to see what guys like Torrealba, Molina (is he available?) and Paulino would be close to getting. I see Paulino getting 3 million just because of the market thats out there.

 

It can also be argued though, Bucks contract bumped up Martinez value---sayign Look what he got, Martinez is worth double that atleast.

 

I'm with Piazza on this one. IMO, one player's contract does affect another's. Just as an example, I think the Padres and the Cards are going to pay the price for Howard's contract.

 

That's different.

 

The Phillies overpaid for Howard, and as a result BETTER PLAYERS like Albert Pujols and Adrian Gonzalez are simply going to get some more money.

 

John Buck and his people might've asked for more money, but that doesn't mean he would've gotten it. Some say 6 million per year is overpaying for him; he's not that good to be asking for more, especially when other catchers like Torrealba and Olivo (who don't project to be much worse, based on their career track records) are still out there for the taking. Buck is much more Torrealba/Olivo than Victor Martinez. The Martinez deal doesn't really give Buck much leverage in a deal. As a matter of fact, if he actually felt that way, he more than likely would've waited to sign.

Unless you're a team like the Padres who play half their games at Petco Park, no team builds around defense. It would be silly to do so.

I'm not sure what one contract has to do with the other.

 

It was pretty well-known that Victor Martinez was, far and away, the best catcher on the market (even if he sucks, defensively). Buck is coming off a career year; Martinez has been a good hitter his whole entire career. They were both probably overpaid. However, Victor Martinez is a legit proven bat, who would've gotten a lot more than Buck, regardless.

 

The Marlins were the main team that was interested in Buck. The majority of the other teams interested in Buck wanted him as a platoon catcher. The Victor Martinez signing shouldn't make you feel any better about the Buck deal. You either liked it, or you don't, imo.

 

 

IMO, Victor Martinez' contract size would have boosted Bucks a bit higher. Comign off his career year, he was not the player Martinez is or was, but he was still a serviceable option to those teams who lost out on Martinez.

 

Now the market may be smaller for a catcher with Buck and Victor off the market, but Martinez' contract would have been a jumping off point for both any player and team looking to engage in dialogue.

 

4 years and 50 million dollars is significatly more money the 3/18.

 

While Martinez may be a great catcher, buck proved to be good---not great. He would have been lined up for possibly 3 at 8 or 9 million a year had he waited. Some other team would have overpaid to get him. Just because that is what the market would have dictated.

 

With the Martinez deal setting the market higher, I am curious to see what guys like Torrealba, Molina (is he available?) and Paulino would be close to getting. I see Paulino getting 3 million just because of the market thats out there.

 

It can also be argued though, Bucks contract bumped up Martinez value---sayign Look what he got, Martinez is worth double that atleast.

 

I'm with Piazza on this one. IMO, one player's contract does affect another's. Just as an example, I think the Padres and the Cards are going to pay the price for Howard's contract.

 

That's different.

 

The Phillies overpaid for Howard, and as a result BETTER PLAYERS like Albert Pujols and Adrian Gonzalez are simply going to get some more money.

 

John Buck and his people might've asked for more money, but that doesn't mean he would've gotten it. Some say 6 million per year is overpaying for him; he's not that good to be asking for more, especially when other catchers like Torrealba and Olivo (who don't project to be much worse, based on their career track records) are still out there for the taking. Buck is much more Torrealba/Olivo than Victor Martinez. The Martinez deal doesn't really give Buck much leverage in a deal. As a matter of fact, if he actually felt that way, he more than likely would've waited to sign.

 

I see exactly where you are coming from. The Howard example probably wasn't the best one for me to use, although his signing has set the bar. Going into FA, sometimes players will hold off signing a contract until other's playing the same position sign first so they can see more accurately what the market will stand. That would be more like what could have happened in this scenario than the Howard example.

 

Point is, one player's signing does/can affect anothers.

I'm talking about Paulino's possible guilt in taking PEDs. You erroneously assumed that dietary supplements have no indication of PED use and I'm saying this isn't the case. Then you tried to say that Paulino saying he's sorry and apologetic was possibly some indication that he might not be guilty of PED use. As I stated, guilty players are always sorry when they get caught. It's not something unique to Paulino or players wrongly hit with PED allegations. It seems to be a trend with many human beings...they are only sorry when they have to face the consequences.

 

Secondly, I find it amusing that you discredit media rumors for their lack of veracity and yet seem to blindly believe Paulino's story that he "didn't know what he was taking" (the excuse used by every player caught with PEDs). The basis to believe it isn't true is the fact that he actually got caught. Players are well informed now about how seriously MLB takes this issue to the point where I find it hard to believe that no player does not consult the list of banned substances. Maybe five years ago, but not now. At this point, if you are caught with anything, it's pretty likely that he was consciously breaking the rules.

 

Do I know for a fact that he was using PEDs? No, I don't but the evidence made available points in that direction.

 

I don't see how fans "holding a grudge" forever has any bearing on this

 

 

First bolded----No I'm not. Never said that. Never hinted at that. You took a wrong assumption and went on a tangent about it.

 

Second bolded---I never take any rumors seriously.

 

Paulino has never been caught in any lie since he has been here. He has always been the epitome of a team player. Hence, there is absolutely no reason to not take him at his word.

 

Innocent until proven guilty. There is absolutely no proof that he intentionally took anything to mask something else he MAY have been taking. And no proof that he did take anything else. And enough proof that he has been honest and a good teammate. I'll take him at his word.

 

The only difference this makes is that he won't be back because the $$$ he will get will be more than the team wants to pay for a back up catcher, not because of his suspension.

I'm not sure what one contract has to do with the other.

 

It was pretty well-known that Victor Martinez was, far and away, the best catcher on the market (even if he sucks, defensively). Buck is coming off a career year; Martinez has been a good hitter his whole entire career. They were both probably overpaid. However, Victor Martinez is a legit proven bat, who would've gotten a lot more than Buck, regardless.

 

The Marlins were the main team that was interested in Buck. The majority of the other teams interested in Buck wanted him as a platoon catcher. The Victor Martinez signing shouldn't make you feel any better about the Buck deal. You either liked it, or you don't, imo.

 

 

IMO, Victor Martinez' contract size would have boosted Bucks a bit higher. Comign off his career year, he was not the player Martinez is or was, but he was still a serviceable option to those teams who lost out on Martinez.

 

Now the market may be smaller for a catcher with Buck and Victor off the market, but Martinez' contract would have been a jumping off point for both any player and team looking to engage in dialogue.

 

4 years and 50 million dollars is significatly more money the 3/18.

 

While Martinez may be a great catcher, buck proved to be good---not great. He would have been lined up for possibly 3 at 8 or 9 million a year had he waited. Some other team would have overpaid to get him. Just because that is what the market would have dictated.

 

With the Martinez deal setting the market higher, I am curious to see what guys like Torrealba, Molina (is he available?) and Paulino would be close to getting. I see Paulino getting 3 million just because of the market thats out there.

 

It can also be argued though, Bucks contract bumped up Martinez value---sayign Look what he got, Martinez is worth double that atleast.

 

I'm with Piazza on this one. IMO, one player's contract does affect another's. Just as an example, I think the Padres and the Cards are going to pay the price for Howard's contract.

I'm not with him.

 

Contracts can affect another, but only when those two players are comparable. Martinez is one of the elite offensive players in the game whereas Buck has had a mediocre career with one breakout year. A lot of teams were looking at Martinez as just just a catcher, either. Baltimore made a nice offer for him and want him to play 1B/DH (they have Matt Wieters). Whereas, many teams appear to regard Buck as a platoon catcher at best. The Marlins seemed to value him higher than most other teams would and are set too ensure a great deal of playing time and locked him into contract without much of a bidding war. They aren't even remotely similar players (unlike Pujols, Gonzalez, and Howard who are all elite hitting players with proven track records). Buck and Martinez aren't even on the same plane of talent level, so it's pretty foolish to think that their respective contracts would have had any discernible bearing on the other's.

 

No, they don't have to have similar numbers. Just play the same position. Once the bench mark has been set, the other's may be adjusted to make up for the difference in abilities.

Unless you're a team like the Padres who play half their games at Petco Park, no team builds around defense. It would be silly to do so.

 

 

And I think you're too smart to really believe that. Unless you are saying JUST build around defense. That I would agree with. In a pitchers park, like ours and the new pond, you get the pitching AND the defense to back it up. Otherwise, with a shoddy defense the SPs don't go far into games, which means the pen gets overly used and tires early in the season, which means..... Well, you know the results.

I'm talking about Paulino's possible guilt in taking PEDs. You erroneously assumed that dietary supplements have no indication of PED use and I'm saying this isn't the case. Then you tried to say that Paulino saying he's sorry and apologetic was possibly some indication that he might not be guilty of PED use. As I stated, guilty players are always sorry when they get caught. It's not something unique to Paulino or players wrongly hit with PED allegations. It seems to be a trend with many human beings...they are only sorry when they have to face the consequences.

 

Secondly, I find it amusing that you discredit media rumors for their lack of veracity and yet seem to blindly believe Paulino's story that he "didn't know what he was taking" (the excuse used by every player caught with PEDs). The basis to believe it isn't true is the fact that he actually got caught. Players are well informed now about how seriously MLB takes this issue to the point where I find it hard to believe that no player does not consult the list of banned substances. Maybe five years ago, but not now. At this point, if you are caught with anything, it's pretty likely that he was consciously breaking the rules.

 

Do I know for a fact that he was using PEDs? No, I don't but the evidence made available points in that direction.

 

I don't see how fans "holding a grudge" forever has any bearing on this

 

 

First bolded----No I'm not. Never said that. Never hinted at that. You took a wrong assumption and went on a tangent about it.

 

Second bolded---I never take any rumors seriously.

 

Paulino has never been caught in any lie since he has been here. He has always been the epitome of a team player. Hence, there is absolutely no reason to not take him at his word.

 

Innocent until proven guilty. There is absolutely no proof that he intentionally took anything to mask something else he MAY have been taking. And no proof that he did take anything else. And enough proof that he has been honest and a good teammate. I'll take him at his word.

 

The only difference this makes is that he won't be back because the $$$ he will get will be more than the team wants to pay for a back up catcher, not because of his suspension.

Looks like you are contradicting yourself again. You previously said this:

 

I believe you are jumping to an incorrect conclusion there. From what I read it wasn't a performance enhancing supplement, it was a dietary one. And given Ronnie's size and constant overuse, I find that at least more believable.

 

It sure seems like you are exculpating Paulino from PED usage on account on him taking dietary drugs, which indicates that you were completely unaware of their prominent usage in pro sports as a masking agent for PED testing.

At the very least, you were hinting that Paulino wasn't on PEDs because he tested positive for dietary drugs (not PEDs).

 

And you might not take rumors seriously, but you still tend to redirect your ignorance and naivete through other channels, such as seemingly taking Paulino at his word. He has been proven guilty to the extent that he has tested positive for a substance banned simply because it masks PED usage. That is rather incriminating and it's rather comical that you are going to such great lengths to try to build up Paulino's character.

 

Knowing you, this is probably mostly about your juvenile dislike of Baker and you probably feeling some sort of allegiance with Paulino in that respect. I bet if Baker were the one caught with a masking agent, you would be singing a different song. Of course you will deny this, but you are as predictable as they come.

 

You got this from the numerous times I said that's NOT what I was saying?

 

In two different discussions in this thread you have once again taken my posts with pretty explicit meanings, and twisted them around until you came up with something totally different...and then argued with me about them. Apparently things haven't changed. You just want to argue with me.

 

Argue with yourself. I have better things to do.

Unless you're a team like the Padres who play half their games at Petco Park, no team builds around defense. It would be silly to do so.

 

 

And I think you're too smart to really believe that. Unless you are saying JUST build around defense. That I would agree with. In a pitchers park, like ours and the new pond, you get the pitching AND the defense to back it up. Otherwise, with a shoddy defense the SPs don't go far into games, which means the pen gets overly used and tires early in the season, which means..... Well, you know the results.

 

 

I'm not saying defense is irrelevant. There's obviously plenty of importance in it. I'm just saying offense is more important.

 

Just like a defense can make a pitcher look better, you can build a pitching staff to sort of offset a mediocre defense. You talked about the pen...well, the pen is better now, and should be less dependent on defense, considering some of the type of pitchers Beinfest has brought in (guys like Mujica and Dunn have very good K/9 #'s).

 

Obviously, in a pefect world you have a great pitching staff and a great defense, but the Marlins have to choose which one they feel is more important with the payroll the way it is. As of right now, it seems pretty clear that Beinfest feels like pitching is far more important than defense, based on his moves so far this offseason.

 

A small-market team, (like Billy Beane's current A's team), places an emphasis on team defense because he feels it's currently undervalued, and the A's current football stadium is, indeed, a pitchers park.

 

By the way, Sun Life Stadium is not a "pitchers park," really.

By the way, regarding Victor Martinez, he's not even going to be Detroit's starting catcher. He's supposedly their primary DH, who's going to catch 2-3 times per week, and play 1B once in awhile. It shows just how good his bat is, in comparison to the other free agent catchers (like Buck).

Did I have a post deleted?

Did I have a post deleted?

 

 

Not according to the logs.