We have no scout..

[claudiojin]

We 'specially' picked pitcher in 1 round or 2 round

 

here is terrfic list..

 

2003 : Jeffrey M Allison(1),Logan F Kensing(2)

2004: Taylor M Tankersley(1),Jason M Vargas(2)

2005:Jacob L Marceaux(1),Aaron M Thompson(1),Ryan C Tucker(1),Sean E West(1),Christopher K Volstad(1)

2006:Brett A Sinkbeil(1)

2007:Brad Hand(2)

2008:none

2009:Chad James (1),Bryan Berglund (2)

2010:Rob Rasmussen (2)

[Erick]

Original.

[dom2613]

Kinda hard to fault us for taking Allison. The guy was a stud. Who would have know he'd have serious substance abuse problems. I heard there were rumors of when he was in HS though.

 

The draft is a crap shoot anyway.

[gizmo]

I love how you choose to ignore players like Morrison, Stanton, Gaby, and JJ.

[Dr Beinfest]

I love how you choose to ignore players like Morrison, Stanton, Gaby, and JJ.

 

 

Well he is choosing to just pick out our inability to draft a pitcher.

 

I think the developmental aspect is where we fail, to be honest. Somebody like Chris Volstad should not suck this much.

[Sirspud]

I love how you choose to ignore players like Morrison, Stanton, Gaby, and JJ.

 

 

Well he is choosing to just pick out our inability to draft a pitcher.

 

I think the developmental aspect is where we fail, to be honest. Somebody like Chris Volstad should not suck this much.

 

It seems to me like Chris Volstad sucks because of Chris Volstad. Ever since he got really butchered at the end of 2009, he hasn't seemed confident on the mound anymore.

[fanofthefish]

2002 Josh Johnson 2007 Steve Cishek also a little early to write off the James or Rasmussen picks

Where the scouting department has really dropped the ball is drafting catchers in the early rounds wasting picks in 2006, 2007 and Skipworth 2008

[Alexdw85]

I love how you choose to ignore players like Morrison, Stanton, Gaby, and JJ.

 

 

Well he is choosing to just pick out our inability to draft a pitcher.

 

I think the developmental aspect is where we fail, to be honest. Somebody like Chris Volstad should not suck this much.

 

It seems to me like Chris Volstad sucks because of Chris Volstad. Ever since he got really butchered at the end of 2009, he hasn't seemed confident on the mound anymore.

 

thats because we rushed him up. he never had to go through a rough patch in the minors where hitters were figuring him out and he was adjusting to it. so when it happened, it happened at the major league level and the guys psyche was screwed. sure it may have happened in the minors, but thats why u develop guys down there correctly (like the braves do.)

[Alexdw85]

hitting-wise out scouts and development have done a great job. morrison, gaby, stanton, etc. were all finds. dont also forget guys like adrian gonzalez and miguel cabrera.

 

but pitching-wise, aside from JJ, this ownership group has been pretty bad. i contend its cuz we rush guys up and end up ruining them. but beinfest has really dropped the ball over the last 5-6 years. this organization used to pride itself on having a stock of young arms in the minors. we have nothing down there now. james might be something but hes a long way away. and thats on beinfest. and sure u dont judge the high picks in baseball like u would the NBA or NFL, but we havent had any decent pitchers since JJ came up. that would seem to suggest were busting on everything,

[EricWiener]

Josh Johnson

Chris Volstad

Steve Cishek

Brad Hand

Alex Sanabia

 

Considering that the team rotated established pitchers out from 04-06 this is about how many pitchers are farm can be expected to produce

[GoFishGoMs628]

Fail.

 

Jason Vargas is a solid starting pitcher in the Mariners rotation.

[GoFishGoMs628]

hitting-wise out scouts and development have done a great job. morrison, gaby, stanton, etc. were all finds. dont also forget guys like adrian gonzalez and miguel cabrera.

 

but pitching-wise, aside from JJ, this ownership group has been pretty bad. i contend its cuz we rush guys up and end up ruining them. but beinfest has really dropped the ball over the last 5-6 years. this organization used to pride itself on having a stock of young arms in the minors. we have nothing down there now. james might be something but hes a long way away. and thats on beinfest. and sure u dont judge the high picks in baseball like u would the NBA or NFL, but we havent had any decent pitchers since JJ came up. that would seem to suggest were busting on everything,

 

 

Agree here.

[EricWiener]

hitting-wise out scouts and development have done a great job. morrison, gaby, stanton, etc. were all finds. dont also forget guys like adrian gonzalez and miguel cabrera.

 

but pitching-wise, aside from JJ, this ownership group has been pretty bad. i contend its cuz we rush guys up and end up ruining them. but beinfest has really dropped the ball over the last 5-6 years. this organization used to pride itself on having a stock of young arms in the minors. we have nothing down there now. james might be something but hes a long way away. and thats on beinfest. and sure u dont judge the high picks in baseball like u would the NBA or NFL, but we havent had any decent pitchers since JJ came up. that would seem to suggest were busting on everything,

 

 

Agree here.

 

We have nothing down there, because we left nothing down there. When we had Beckett, Pavano, Penny, Redman, and Willis it was easy to "stockpile."

[Sirspud]

hitting-wise out scouts and development have done a great job. morrison, gaby, stanton, etc. were all finds. dont also forget guys like adrian gonzalez and miguel cabrera.

 

but pitching-wise, aside from JJ, this ownership group has been pretty bad. i contend its cuz we rush guys up and end up ruining them. but beinfest has really dropped the ball over the last 5-6 years. this organization used to pride itself on having a stock of young arms in the minors. we have nothing down there now. james might be something but hes a long way away. and thats on beinfest. and sure u dont judge the high picks in baseball like u would the NBA or NFL, but we havent had any decent pitchers since JJ came up. that would seem to suggest were busting on everything,

 

 

Agree here.

 

We have nothing down there, because we left nothing down there. When we had Beckett, Pavano, Penny, Redman, and Willis it was easy to "stockpile."

 

Nowdays not only do we not stockpile because every youngster with talent is up here before he is ready, but we inevitably send 3/4 of the guys that have shown some talent out in trades that don't bring proper value in return.

[GoFishGoMs628]

hitting-wise out scouts and development have done a great job. morrison, gaby, stanton, etc. were all finds. dont also forget guys like adrian gonzalez and miguel cabrera.

 

but pitching-wise, aside from JJ, this ownership group has been pretty bad. i contend its cuz we rush guys up and end up ruining them. but beinfest has really dropped the ball over the last 5-6 years. this organization used to pride itself on having a stock of young arms in the minors. we have nothing down there now. james might be something but hes a long way away. and thats on beinfest. and sure u dont judge the high picks in baseball like u would the NBA or NFL, but we havent had any decent pitchers since JJ came up. that would seem to suggest were busting on everything,

 

 

Agree here.

 

We have nothing down there, because we left nothing down there. When we had Beckett, Pavano, Penny, Redman, and Willis it was easy to "stockpile."

 

Nowdays not only do we not stockpile because every youngster with talent is up here before he is ready, but we inevitably send 3/4 of the guys that have shown some talent out in trades that don't bring proper value in return.

 

Hopefully the FO reads this forum, seriously though, they could use some pointers. I suppose we would have something to complain about regardless.

It is frustrating though knowing going forward we don't have really anyway to look forward to next year or the year after, pitching wise that is, not to mention our farm system is ranked almost dead last, and I know players get injured and it's part of the game but can we have 1 SP come up without suffering injuries and a setback. Sanabia get well soon.

I hope to God the Marlins trade Nunez and get something way more than he is worth, before it's too late and he blows his next 5 save opportunities which will be the only 5 he gets heading up to the All Star break.

Panic? Yes.

[Admin]

I'd guess that all teams have far more busts than success stories when it comes to drafting pitchers.

 

However, I'm a bit worried sometimes that the Marlins' minor league instructors are worse than those around the rest of the league.

[mystikol87]

I'd guess that all teams have far more busts than success stories when it comes to drafting pitchers.

 

However, I'm a bit worried sometimes that the Marlins' minor league instructors are worse than those around the rest of the league.

 

 

I mean, if the average team has 3 "quality" starters, and 3 "quality" relievers, then there are 180 "quality" pitchers in MLB. I don't know how many are drafted each year + free agents signed, but I'm sure the success rate has to be quite low.

 

If teams drafted based on 25-man roster proportions, then ~half of draft picks would be pitchers. Over 1,500 players are selected each year. If 750 are pitchers, then each team drafts ~25 pitchers per year. If you then have the average pitcher for 10 year (4 years of minors + 6 club control), then you have 250 pitchers drafted over a 10-year period, of which maybe 6 are "quality" pitchers.

 

Feel free to disagree with my numbers, but I get a 1/40 success rate, and I doubt it can reasonably be greater than 1/20.

[Alexdw85]

hitting-wise out scouts and development have done a great job. morrison, gaby, stanton, etc. were all finds. dont also forget guys like adrian gonzalez and miguel cabrera.

 

but pitching-wise, aside from JJ, this ownership group has been pretty bad. i contend its cuz we rush guys up and end up ruining them. but beinfest has really dropped the ball over the last 5-6 years. this organization used to pride itself on having a stock of young arms in the minors. we have nothing down there now. james might be something but hes a long way away. and thats on beinfest. and sure u dont judge the high picks in baseball like u would the NBA or NFL, but we havent had any decent pitchers since JJ came up. that would seem to suggest were busting on everything,

 

 

Agree here.

 

We have nothing down there, because we left nothing down there. When we had Beckett, Pavano, Penny, Redman, and Willis it was easy to "stockpile."

 

Good point. Thats why u go out and sign or trade for guys like redman who had a track record of being decent starters (not great, but decent) and stop throwing money at the reclamation projects of the world. And that was the folly of not signing competent starters for the last 3 years. we threw a bunch of pitchers to the fire and they all needed work on their game. they ended up getting wrecked and now we r in a bad spot because we need more pitching. now this ownership can go out and spend money on a guy like redman again and overpay for him or continue to be a mediocre team.

 

it also should be noted that of all the guys u named, i think only beckett came all the way through our system. everyone else we got in trades. and now that i think about it, the two best pitchers we have currently in the rotation also spent little to no time in our minor league system. maybe there is a problem down there beyond rushing guys.

[EricWiener]

Great rotations are imported either as Free Agents or as good pickups in trades.

[Sirspud]

I'd guess that all teams have far more busts than success stories when it comes to drafting pitchers.

 

However, I'm a bit worried sometimes that the Marlins' minor league instructors are worse than those around the rest of the league.

 

 

I mean, if the average team has 3 "quality" starters, and 3 "quality" relievers, then there are 180 "quality" pitchers in MLB. I don't know how many are drafted each year + free agents signed, but I'm sure the success rate has to be quite low.

 

If teams drafted based on 25-man roster proportions, then ~half of draft picks would be pitchers. Over 1,500 players are selected each year. If 750 are pitchers, then each team drafts ~25 pitchers per year. If you then have the average pitcher for 10 year (4 years of minors + 6 club control), then you have 250 pitchers drafted over a 10-year period, of which maybe 6 are "quality" pitchers.

 

Feel free to disagree with my numbers, but I get a 1/40 success rate, and I doubt it can reasonably be greater than 1/20.

 

You are talking about all pitchers drafted. The OP was talking about early picks being used on pitchers. It may be that we are no worse than anyone else around the league, but the fact of the matter is we are one of the only teams out there that pretty much gets all of its talent through the draft, or at least acquiring it as unproven talent in return for proven talent. The fact that we haven't been that successful at this is why we are stuck being incredibly mediocre. And it hurts that the only guys we have gone against this philosophy and opened up the checkbook for, Buck and Vazquez, just haven't been any good.