I don't believe him retiring would fix anything.

 

 

I also don't believe he did anything wrong to warrant him having to retire or get fired.

 

I don't see how he comes off as obnoxious there.

 

 

I don't agree. Resigning immediately may not have prevented the riots. It would not have solved anything.

 

 

I think your reading too much into his statemant, imo. I didn't really see him as being obnoxious or naive, personally.

 

 

You might not attend Penn State, but it seems very likely that you are a huge Penn State/Paterno fan. You don't seem to be discussing this issue from an unbiased perspective; your judgment seems clouded. In the quotes above you aren't really constructing a rational defense for Paterno based on any tangible justification, but rather seem to be speaking purely from emotion.

 

I think you will find that most people who don't have some sort of attachment toward Paterno will readily admit that he did several things wrong here and he deserves what's happening to him. As someone already pointed out, this goes beyond football.

 

Furthermore, he readily could have prevented the riots if he had been smarter and forgot about his ego for a moment. This thing blew up entirely because Paterno publicly stated his intention to finish the season before checking with the board. As a result, this created the image that the board was giving him the shaft. If Paterno had simply told the public that he felt that it would be best for the program to step down immediately and that it was his own decision, this certainly would have assuaged some of the anger. Paterno essentially set up the board to look like the bad guys.

 

And quite frankly, I'm not even so certain that Penn State should even bother finishing out the season. One man committed the crime, but it sure seems like everyone affiliated with the football program had some knowledge that this was going on. As Mark Madden said, they'll need to clean house completely. That's how bad this whole thing is.

That's why it's mystifying McQueary still has a job....

Penguino, have you read this thread? All I did was state facts.

 

If you don't believe me, here they are.

 

The things we know.

 

In 2002, McQueary witnessed Sandusky having sexual interactions with a little boy in the shower. He went immediately to Paterno, told him, and then Paterno immediately informed his superiors. They are the Athletic Director, Senior Vice President of Business and Finance and the President of the University. They then told him they notified the campus police, who have the same authority as the municipal police, and Social Services. They told him this will be taken care of.

 

That was a lie. Paterno did not know that, though. Obviously, after THEY, not him, seemingly swept this scandal under the rug, he should have phoned the police. I said this already. This is where he failed. However, he admitted to not knowing enough about this situation.

 

I fully believe if he did, he would have.

 

Now my opinion.

 

He did not deserve the firing, as many people believe, because he did what he had to do, which was to tell his superiors. He made a mistake in not calling the police after no action was taken on Sandusky, but it was not intentional on his part. Like I said, he admitted to not knowing enough on the situation. The mistake he made does not justify firing him. He did not rape the kids. He did not help cover them up.

 

He should not have stepped down because it does not solve anything and he did nothing to deserve to make him stop down, as I Illustrated above. I also believe it would have done more harm than good. I fully believe the students would have seen it as the school forcing him into retirement, and still would have rioted.

 

Next time you do not have an argument, don't accuse me of a biased fan who talks with his feelings and has no facts. Just don't reply back. All I did was state facts.

Penguino, have you read this thread? All I did was state facts.

 

If you don't believe me, here they are.

 

The things we know.

 

In 2002, McQueary witnessed Sandusky having sexual interactions with a little boy in the shower. He went immediately to Paterno, told him, and then Paterno immediately informed his superiors. They are the Athletic Director, Senior Vice President of Business and Finance and the President of the University. They then told him they notified the campus police, who have the same authority as the municipal police, and Social Services. They told him this will be taken care of.

 

That was a lie. Paterno did not know that, though. Obviously, after THEY, not him, seemingly swept this scandal under the rug, he should have phoned the police. I said this already. This is where he failed. However, he admitted to not knowing enough about this situation.

 

I fully believe if he did, he would have.

 

Now my opinion.

 

He did not deserve the firing, as many people believe, because he did what he had to do, which was to tell his superiors. He made a mistake in not calling the police after no action was taken on Sandusky, but it was not intentional on his part. Like I said, he admitted to not knowing enough on the situation. The mistake he made does not justify firing him. He did not rape the kids. He did not help cover them up.

 

He should not have stepped down because it does not solve anything and he did nothing to deserve to make him stop down, as I Illustrated above. I also believe it would have done more harm than good. I fully believe the students would have seen it as the school forcing him into retirement, and still would have rioted.

 

Next time you do not have an argument, don't accuse me of a biased fan who talks with his feelings and has no facts. Just don't reply back. All I did was state facts.

 

 

You cannot form an opinion on this issue just by reading an excerpt from god knows where. If you read the 23 page jury report, it'll become apparent that JP knew all the facts. Macquaery said under oath that he told JP all the details, that he 'witnessed what he believed to be Sandusky having anal sex with a boy in the Lasch Building showers.'

 

Imagine if someone came up to you with this information, and 2 days later, see that person on campus and around kids like if nothing ever happened. JoePa is just a scumbag IMO, no human being should be that oblivious to the severity of something like this. You don't just go to your 'superiors' (yeah right, like anybody believed he had superiors) and clean your hands off from this. AND REMEMBER, THIS IS WHILE THE WHOLE CATHOLIC PRIEST/MOLESTATION FIASCO WAS GOING ON, so JoePa should of been even more hyper-aware of what was going on. THIS WAS AN INSTITUTION-WIDE COVER UP.

 

Just pathetic, and honestly, disgusting if you're defending his actions (or lack thereof).

Explain how they are clouded. Those are the facts as we know it. What I stated is what was reported.

Penguino, have you read this thread? All I did was state facts.

 

If you don't believe me, here they are.

 

The things we know.

 

In 2002, McQueary witnessed Sandusky having sexual interactions with a little boy in the shower. He went immediately to Paterno, told him, and then Paterno immediately informed his superiors. They are the Athletic Director, Senior Vice President of Business and Finance and the President of the University. They then told him they notified the campus police, who have the same authority as the municipal police, and Social Services. They told him this will be taken care of.

 

That was a lie. Paterno did not know that, though. Obviously, after THEY, not him, seemingly swept this scandal under the rug, he should have phoned the police. I said this already. This is where he failed. However, he admitted to not knowing enough about this situation.

 

I fully believe if he did, he would have.

 

Now my opinion.

 

He did not deserve the firing, as many people believe, because he did what he had to do, which was to tell his superiors. He made a mistake in not calling the police after no action was taken on Sandusky, but it was not intentional on his part. Like I said, he admitted to not knowing enough on the situation. The mistake he made does not justify firing him. He did not rape the kids. He did not help cover them up.

 

He should not have stepped down because it does not solve anything and he did nothing to deserve to make him stop down, as I Illustrated above. I also believe it would have done more harm than good. I fully believe the students would have seen it as the school forcing him into retirement, and still would have rioted.

 

Next time you do not have an argument, don't accuse me of a biased fan who talks with his feelings and has no facts. Just don't reply back. All I did was state facts.

 

 

You cannot form an opinion on this issue just by reading an excerpt from god knows where. If you read the 23 page jury report, it'll become apparent that JP knew all the facts. Macquaery said under oath that he told JP all the details, that he 'witnessed what he believed to be Sandusky having anal sex with a boy in the Lasch Building showers.'

 

Imagine if someone came up to you with this information, and 2 days later, see that person on campus and around kids like if nothing ever happened. JoePa is just a scumbag IMO, no human being should be that oblivious to the severity of something like this. You don't just go to your 'superiors' (yeah right, like anybody believed he had superiors) and clean your hands off from this. AND REMEMBER, THIS IS WHILE THE WHOLE CATHOLIC PRIEST/MOLESTATION FIASCO WAS GOING ON, so JoePa should of been even more hyper-aware of what was going on. THIS WAS AN INSTITUTION-WIDE COVER UP.

 

Just pathetic, and honestly, disgusting if you're defending his actions (or lack thereof).

 

I read the 23 page report.

 

Joe Paterno says he did not know all the facts. Here is a direct statement from him.

 

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/joe_paterno_issues_statement_a.html

 

I don't think he is a scumbag. I do think he handled it wrong by not calling the cops after they seemingly swept the whole thing under the rug. I just don't think he should have been fired for it. His intentions were never wrong. He just wasn't filled in. I believe if he knew, he would have immediately called the cops.

 

I guess that's were the differences are. You can choose to believe Paterno, who says he didn't know the full extent of the situation, or Mike Mcqueary, who says he told him what happened.

This is hard to digest as a Penn State fan. I don't know if I can support this team or this school in good conscience anymore. I mean I'm almost 30 and I have been a fan since I can remember, same thing with my father. And now to find out people we thought were of the the highest moral fiber are nothing but cowards is a slap in the face.

I'm not buying it

 

For one, there is no way that the campus police, the local police & child protection were involved in investigating one of his assistant coaches in 1998 and Paterno didn't know the details

 

This wasn't addressed in the grand jury report - but at that time the two had a solid 35 year relationship, was the lead assistant and front runner to be next in line

 

Given the way that community operates there is zero chance he didn't know what was going on

 

Even if he didn't have that knowledge this is what Paterno himself tesitifed to:

 

Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant's report at his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley, Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate supervisor, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Buidling showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.

 

..........

 

Schultz testified that hew as called to a meeting with Joe Paterno and Tim Curley, in which Paterno reported "disturbing" and "inappropriate" conduct in the shower by Sandusky upon a young boy, as reported to him by a student or graduate student. Schultz was present in a subsequent meeting with Curley when the graduate assistant reported the incident in the shower involving Sandusky and a boy. Schultz was very unsure about what he remembered the graduate assistant telling him and Curley about the shower incident. He testified that he had the impression that Sandusky might have inappropriately grabbed the young boy's genitals while wrestling and agreed that such was innapropriate sexual conduct between a man and a boy. While equivocating on the definition of "sexual" in the context of Sandusky wrestling with and grabbing the genitals of the boy, Schultz conceded that the report the graduate assistant made was of inappropriate sexual conduct by Sandusky. However, Schultz testified the allegations were "not that serious" and that he and Curley "had no indication that a crime had occurred"

 

The Grand Jury finds that portions of the testimony of Tim Curley and Gary Schultz are not credible.

 

 

Keep in mind that the case against Curley & Schultz is based on the testimony from both McQueary & Paterno

 

Paterno himself noted "fondling or something of a sexual nature" by Sandusky in the showers was reported to him - it was also noted how upset McQueary was.

 

Then Schultz goes on to state that Paterno mentioned "disturbing" and "innapropriate" conduct.

 

So you have a GA that played QB for you and you have close to a decade long relationship come to you Saturday morning very upset, providing details of "fondling or something of a sexaul nature" - details that it's reported that you passed on as being "disturbing" and "innapropriate" and you not only fail to get the police involved, you cool your heels for a full day before you report it up?

 

How in the world do you sleep at night with this information on it's own? - Throw in that he must have known about the issues in '98, again as there was no chance in the world his top assistant goes through a police investigation in his town without him knowing the details, the whole thing just gets worse.

 

He may pass the legal letter of the law, but he failed those children, he failed McQueary and he failed the community.

 

Even if the only thing that was mentioned to him was that Sandusky was showering with a young boy after hours in a closed locker room he should be smart enough to recognize that is something best investigated by actual authorities and not administrators

The Second Mile is a nonprofit organization serving the youth of Pennsylvania. At The Second Mile, we are committed to helping young people achieve their potential as individuals and as community members and providing education and support for their parents and youth service professionals.

 

 

A Statement from The Second Mile 11.6.2011

 

The newly released details and the breadth of the allegations from the Attorney General’s office bring shock, sadness and concern from The Second Mile organization. Our prayers, care and compassion go out to all impacted.

 

The most recent reports we’ve read this past weekend state that Mr. Sandusky met the alleged victims through The Second Mile. To our knowledge, all the alleged incidents occurred outside of our programs and events. However, we are encouraging anyone with information regarding this investigation to contact investigators from the Office of Attorney General at 814-863-1053 or Pennsylvania State Police at 814-470-2238.

 

As The Second Mile’s CEO Jack Raykovitz testified to the Grand Jury, he was informed in 2002 by Pennsylvania State University Athletic Director Tim Curley that an individual had reported to Mr. Curley that he was uncomfortable about seeing Jerry Sandusky in the locker room shower with a youth. Mr. Curley also shared that the information had been internally reviewed and that there was no finding of wrongdoing. At no time was The Second Mile made aware of the very serious allegations contained in the Grand Jury report.

 

Subsequently, in November 2008, Mr. Sandusky informed The Second Mile that he had learned he was being investigated as a result of allegations made against him by an adolescent male in Clinton County, PA. Although he maintained there was no truth to the claims, we are an organization committed first and foremost to the safety and well-being of the children we serve. Consistent with that commitment and with The Second Mile policy, we immediately made the decision to separate him from all of our program activities involving children. Thus, from 2008 to present, Mr. Sandusky has had no involvement with Second Mile programs involving children.

 

The Second Mile was first contacted by the Attorney General’s office in early 2011. Since then, we have done everything in our power to cooperate with law-enforcement officials and will continue to do so.

 

Our highest priority always has been and will continue to be the safety and well-being of the children participating in our programs. We encourage program participants to report any allegations of abuse and/or inappropriate sexual activity wherever it has occurred, and we take any such reports directly to Child Protective Services. We have many policies and procedures designed to protect our participants, including employee and volunteer background checks, training and supervision of our activities.

 

The Second Mile has helped thousands of Pennsylvania’s children to lead better lives, and we remain committed to that mission. Our success is a result of the trust placed in us by the families and professionals with whom we partner, and we will take any steps needed to maintain their confidence in us.

 

 

http://www.thesecondmile.org/welcome.php

His intentions were never wrong. He just wasn't filled in. I believe if he knew, he would have immediately called the cops.

 

 

Ok, but don't you think after McQueary reported it to him, it is his obligation as a human being to get filled in on the situation? He essentially received the information, passed it on, and wiped his hands clean. "Not my problem anymore" kind of deal. That's just not acceptable.

They told him they alerted the authorities and social services.

Told who they alerted the authorities? I've read the entire Grand Jury Testimony a couple of times and note once did they tell anyone they had alerted the authorities and/or CPS. The president of Second Mile asked Tim Curley to have it reported to CPS but no one did, nor did anyone follow up to make sure it did. It feels to me like a bunch of people acting willfully ignorant.

Exactly. They told Paterno they did, but they lied. They never told anyone. They swept it under the rug and pretend it never happened.

Exactly. They told Paterno they did, but they lied. They never told anyone. They swept it under the rug and pretend it never happened.

 

 

Let me repeat, no one ever claimed they had or intended to call the police and CPS nor told anyone they did. Not Joe Paterno, not Mike MCQueary, not Tim Curley. The testimony explicitly says just that. They all just shrugged it off as not their problem.

and I quote:

 

Although (Gary) Schultz oversaw the University Police as part of his position, he never reported the 2002 incident to the University Police or police agency, never sought or reviewed a police report on the 1998 incident and never attempted to learn the identity of the child in the shower in 2002. No one from the University did so. Schultz did not ask the graduate assistant for specifics. No one ever did. Schultz expressed surprise upon learning that the 1998 investigation by University Police produced a lengthy police report. Schultz said there was never any discussion between himself and (Tim) Curley about turning the 2002 incident over to any plice agency. Schultz retired in June 2009 but currently holds the same position as a senior vice president with Penn State, on an interim basis.

I've always been immensely indifferent to Penn State and Joe Paterno. This story definitely changed that. It seems like there are still a lot of details that we should wait for before making hard judgments. Once a story like this makes national news, nobody is exempt from being thrown under the bus.

Exactly. They told Paterno they did, but they lied. They never told anyone. They swept it under the rug and pretend it never happened.

 

You keep saying this.

 

Please give me the page number in the Grand Jury report that indicates that the administration informed Paterno that the police had been notified. Better yet, give the quote from the report.

Penguino, have you read this thread? All I did was state facts.

 

If you don't believe me, here they are.

 

The things we know.

 

In 2002, McQueary witnessed Sandusky having sexual interactions with a little boy in the shower. He went immediately to Paterno, told him, and then Paterno immediately informed his superiors. They are the Athletic Director, Senior Vice President of Business and Finance and the President of the University. They then told him they notified the campus police, who have the same authority as the municipal police, and Social Services. They told him this will be taken care of.

 

That was a lie. Paterno did not know that, though. Obviously, after THEY, not him, seemingly swept this scandal under the rug, he should have phoned the police. I said this already. This is where he failed. However, he admitted to not knowing enough about this situation.

 

I fully believe if he did, he would have.

 

Now my opinion.

 

He did not deserve the firing, as many people believe, because he did what he had to do, which was to tell his superiors. He made a mistake in not calling the police after no action was taken on Sandusky, but it was not intentional on his part. Like I said, he admitted to not knowing enough on the situation. The mistake he made does not justify firing him. He did not rape the kids. He did not help cover them up.

 

He should not have stepped down because it does not solve anything and he did nothing to deserve to make him stop down, as I Illustrated above. I also believe it would have done more harm than good. I fully believe the students would have seen it as the school forcing him into retirement, and still would have rioted.

 

Next time you do not have an argument, don't accuse me of a biased fan who talks with his feelings and has no facts. Just don't reply back. All I did was state facts.

 

I see no evidence indicating that Paterno was assured that things were handled. You'll have to prove otherwise.

 

The bottom line is that Paterno would have been aware that a police investigation were underway. When he noticed that there was not one, he should have followed up and called the police himself. That's why he's just as guilty of sweeping this under the rug.

 

Also, every college football coach from another institution I've heard interviewed since this story broke has adamantly said that Paterno because of his power and influence would have known everything that is going on. For you to keep insisting that he was completely out of the loop on this is just wishful thinking.

I read the 23 page report.

 

Joe Paterno says he did not know all the facts. Here is a direct statement from him.

 

http://www.pennlive....tatement_a.html

 

 

Since you read the report, you would know that it clearly says that Paterno was informed that Sandusky had been seen engaging in appropriate sexual activity with an underaged boy. Even if "ass-f***ing" was not explicitly mentioned at that time, Paterno clearly had more than enough information to warrant phoning the police or following up to make sure that his superiors had done so.

I read the 23 page report.

 

Joe Paterno says he did not know all the facts. Here is a direct statement from him.

 

http://www.pennlive....tatement_a.html

 

 

Since you read the report, you would know that it clearly says that Paterno was informed that Sandusky had been seen engaging in appropriate sexual activity with an underaged boy. Even if "ass-f***ing" was not explicitly mentioned at that time, Paterno clearly had more than enough information to warrant phoning the police or following up to make sure that his superiors had done so.

 

Mcqueary said he saw what looked like Sandusky having 'anal sex' with a boy... so yeah, ass f***ing was explicitly mentioned.

I will say this which is why I'm leaning towards being a supporter of Paterno keeping his job. At any job, if you know something is being done that is seriously wrong, it is your responsibility to pass it up to your superiors. Should your superiors not follow through with what should be done, their subordinates should not take the fall for/with them. JMO.

I will say this which is why I'm leaning towards being a supporter of Paterno keeping his job. At any job, if you know something is being done that is seriously wrong, it is your responsibility to pass it up to your superiors. Should your superiors not follow through with what should be done, their subordinates should not take the fall for/with them. JMO.

 

 

Are you f***ing kidding with this!? Paterno IS/WAS Penn State! As much as you would like to say superiors, there was no such thing.

I will say this which is why I'm leaning towards being a supporter of Paterno keeping his job. At any job, if you know something is being done that is seriously wrong, it is your responsibility to pass it up to your superiors. Should your superiors not follow through with what should be done, their subordinates should not take the fall for/with them. JMO.

 

 

Are you f***ing kidding with this!? Paterno IS/WAS Penn State! As much as you would like to say superiors, there was no such thing.

 

Not kidding at all. Paterno might be Penn State to the media, especially sports media, but the bottom line is there's still a chain of command, and he is not at the top. If he was, he would not have been fired.

I will say this which is why I'm leaning towards being a supporter of Paterno keeping his job. At any job, if you know something is being done that is seriously wrong, it is your responsibility to pass it up to your superiors. Should your superiors not follow through with what should be done, their subordinates should not take the fall for/with them. JMO.

 

 

Are you f***ing kidding with this!? Paterno IS/WAS Penn State! As much as you would like to say superiors, there was no such thing.

 

Not kidding at all. Paterno might be Penn State to the media, especially sports media, but the bottom line is there's still a chain of command, and he is not at the top. If he was, he would not have been fired.

I would only buy this if the incident were purely an internal conflict within the program affecting only employees. Clearly that isn't the case here. That's why the grad assistant should be fired too.

http://espn.go.com/c...ach-joe-paterno

 

Some highlights:

His spectacular rise and equally spectacular fall prove once more that absolute power absolutely corrupts or, at the very least, blurs the vision. And make no mistake: Paterno's power and influence at Penn State was often vast and overpowering.

 

"Joe is -- was -- in absolute control of Penn State athletics," says a former BCS conference official who had a long working relationship with Paterno. "There's no question about it."

Paterno had equity at Penn State, the kind of equity that gave him the power to essentially stiff-arm the school's efforts to coax him into retirement in 2004. He tried the same audacious tactic earlier this week when he announced his decision to retire at season's end and added, almost as a warning it seemed, that the PSU board of trustees had more pressing matters to deal with than his job status.

 

It was the final, tone-deaf act of a man who failed to realize his own power base had eroded. Wednesday night the trustees informed him by phone of their decision to fire him, effective immediately.

Why didn't Paterno contact the police when first informed in 2002 by then-graduate assistant Mike McQueary of an alleged locker room incident involving Sandusky and a young boy?

 

Why did Paterno heir apparent Sandusky unexpectedly resign from Penn State in 1999?

 

Why was Sandusky granted special access to the Penn State athletic facilities even after the 2002 incident?

 

Why did all of this remain secret for so long?

 

"Joe doesn't know why [sandusky] resigned?" says a former athletic director at a rival institution. "Bull----. That was the first cover-up. … In '99, when Sandusky resigns, you think this coaching staff didn't know what was going on?

 

"In 2002, this could have been a two-day story: 'Ex-Penn State assistant coach is arrested.' I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a painful story, but it would have been dealt with. But there's so much arrogance to think they can keep it a secret. And it starts with Joe … Monumental ego and arrogance."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/12/penn-state-stadium-profanity-scorn-joe-paterno/?page=1