Hanley was injured all year, though, was he not?

Didn't he start the season with a bad back and didn't say anything until later in the year?

 

Yes but penguin is ignoring all of that.

No, I'm not. As I said, it's hard to play the injury card with Hanley since he's sucked defensively his whole career. Wright has definitely declined defensively (injuries or not), but Hanley has sucked pretty much since day one.

 

While I agree he hasn't exactly been Ozzie Smith out at shortstop, I was going more at this specific tidbit:

 

I don't think that Wright is much better overall than Hanley, but I think that Hanley's 2011 performance is more of an eye opener than Wright's inconsistencies are.

I was talking about his bat there (.712 OPS).

Which is why I said he was injured.

Not following you then. The post you replied to was talking about defense and then you said "Hanley is no Ozzie Smith," which suggests you are talking about defensive ability.

Originally, I was speaking of his offense, but you brought up the defensive point, to which I agreed with you on.

However, you stated his offense declined massively last year to which I said was due to injury.

I was never denying that the injury had something to do with Hanley's .712 OPS. It absolutely had an impact, so I'm not "ignoring" that.

 

However, I don't think that you can attribute the struggles entirely to injury. I think it's wrong to assume that if he were healthy he would have been a .900 OPS bat again. Injuries certainly hampered him, but he was struggling in other ways that suggest he's not on the verge of returning to the bat he was in his prime.

 

If he's healthy, he's probably going to be a .830-.860 ish bat. I'll take it, but he's going to lose some positional value by moving from SS to 3B.

I think it depends on who you expect to bounce back with the bat. Defensively, there both horrible. Who ever can hit better with the bat will be the better player.

I don't think that you can say that Hanley and Wright are equally the same in terms of defense. Wright is almost certainly better, but to what extent he's better is debatable.

I don't think that you can say that Hanley and Wright are equally the same in terms of defense. Wright is almost certainly better, but to what extent he's better is debatable.

 

 

Wright is a terrible defensive 3B. He's been a -10 UZR each of the past 3 seasons, and that includes this past season when he did that in just 102 games.

 

The only 3B who was worse than Wright last year was Mark Reynolds and that's only because Mark Reynolds is an absolute joke over there.

 

If Hanley is bad, he'll probably just be David Wright bad.

And Hanley's been at least proportionally terrible at SS. I don't think you can expect his defense to improve at 3B with his arm accuracy problems. I'm expecting something more in the -12 UZR range.

I don't think that you can say that Hanley and Wright are equally the same in terms of defense. Wright is almost certainly better, but to what extent he's better is debatable.

 

 

I think the difference is negligible, though. There both horrible. Hanley may be worse, but not by much.

And Hanley's been at least proportionally terrible at SS. I don't think you can expect his defense to improve at 3B with his arm accuracy problems. I'm expecting something more in the -12 UZR range.

 

 

David Wright has been at -10 for the past 3 seasons. Like I said, minimal difference.

And Hanley's been at least proportionally terrible at SS. I don't think you can expect his defense to improve at 3B with his arm accuracy problems. I'm expecting something more in the -12 UZR range.

 

 

SS is a more demanding position than 3B.

 

If anything, Hanley might improve.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/hanley-ramirez-to-3b/

And Hanley's been at least proportionally terrible at SS. I don't think you can expect his defense to improve at 3B with his arm accuracy problems. I'm expecting something more in the -12 UZR range.

 

 

SS is a more demanding position than 3B.

 

If anything, Hanley might improve.

http://www.fangraphs...-ramirez-to-3b/

Overall it is, but it all comes down to a player's skill set. Arguably Hanley is better suited for SS, because of his arm accuracy problems, which that article glosses over. I expect to cringe every time I see Hanley have to reach far to his right to make the throw to first. It's erroneous to base so much on "range." 3B doesn't require SS-esque range, but is arguably more of a quickness to make a couple of short steps. I read another Fangraphs piece several weeks ago that was much more pessimistic because many of the SS who have successfully migrated over to 3B have already been plus defenders.

Where is Wes Helms when you need him?

3B is a position that rewards reflexes and fearlessness - it is far less athletically demanding overall than SS. Hanley has the reflexes - the approach remains to be witnessed. His arm accuracy is an issue, but I do not see any reason why he would be worse than Wright.

 

Offensively, if Hanley is healthy enough to play 150+ games, I have to reason to doubt he will be an .875-.950 OPS player.

MLB Network's "Top 10 Right Now" had Chipper "just missing the list," Wright at #10, Hanley at #9, and Zimmerman at #5

(Miguel Cabrera at #1, obviously.)

MLB Network's "Top 10 Right Now" had Chipper "just missing the list," Wright at #10, Hanley at #9, and Zimmerman at #5

(Miguel Cabrera at #1, obviously.)

 

 

If Hanley hits like '09, you can bet he'll jump straight up to #2 real quick...

 

And I might be in the major minority, but I don't think Miguel Cabrera is going to fail horribly at 3B. He loved being a REAL infielder, 3B was always his favorite position. He takes a lot of pride being able to play at the hotcorner, and he lost a lot of weight trying to prove that to the Tigers. Not to mention the guy has an absolute cannon of an arm that gets wasted at first... I really hope he proves everyone wrong, and hopefully he can set an example for his buddy Hanley to rise to the occassion and accept the challenge of a position switch.

I feel some people don't know that David Wright is not a good defensive 3B.

 

Wright > Hanley

 

At their best, their bats are probably about the same. Both have tapered off somewhat (partially because of injuries), but I have more faith in Wright having a .900 OPS season than I do Hanley.

 

And Wright is much better defensively.

 

This is actually a no brainer for me.

 

It's been a long time since David Wright has been a good defensive 3B. Hell, he's pretty bad.

I never said that Wright is "good." That's putting words in my mouth. I think on a relative scale, he's much better than Hanley, who will probably be worst-in-the-league bad.

 

I'm also willing to cut Wright some slack with his bad defense as of late in light of his injury problems. It's not so easy to give Hanley that same benefit because he's been consistently a poor defensive SS since his call up whereas Wright has at least demonstrated some respectable defensive years. So in some respect, I think Wright is potentially better with the glove than the last two years have indicated.

I'm not looking for reasons, just results. David Wright has arguably been one of the worst defensive 3B in baseball over the last 2-3 years. Bad back, weakening knees, and the such doesn't make him not bad.

 

While Hanley will probably be bad at 3B as he was bad at SS, I can't believe he'll be so agreduously bad that one of the worst in the league will be "much better" than him.

I'm betting on Hanley coming in to this season with a huge chip on his shoulder. Watch out NL pitchers

I'm betting on Hanley coming in to this season with a huge chip on his shoulder. Watch out NL pitchers

 

Da coolest chip.

if he plays outstanding this season, can we start calling him Shadez again?

if he plays outstanding this season, can we start calling him Shadez again?

 

Shadez Nation!