I don't see the big deal about LeBlanc as the long reliever either.

 

 

If he's starting in AAA, he stays stretched out. Then, when an SP is injured, he steps in instead of Elih.

I don't see the big deal about LeBlanc as the long reliever either.

 

 

If he's starting in AAA, he stays stretched out. Then, when an SP is injured, he steps in instead of Elih.

 

It wouldn't be the first time a long reliever goes in for a spot start.

 

LeBlanc will be mostly stretched out as I'd assume most of his appearances will be of the 3-4 inning variety.

I am strongly opposed to keeping LeBlanc up with the team as a reliever. Strongly.

 

 

because you want him starting in AAA so he's ready for spot starts you mean? Or something else?

 

doesn't really bother me if he's not starting regularly. Plus it's great to have a guy come in who can give you 3 or 4 innings on the (hopefully rare) occasion when a Zambrano or Nolasco is out of the game early, instead of killing off half the bullpen. We don't have a Hopper around anymore, and while I am not enamored with LeBlanc he could fill a role in the pen.

 

I don't love it but I like other options even less.

 

Want him stretched out, and not for spot starts. If a starter goes down for a significant amount of time, I don't want to have to scramble to get a guy stretched out or go with subpar options because the LR isn't ready.

 

If Wade LeBlanc never spends a day with the major league team this year, I'm thrilled, because it means we don't have a use for him.

LeBlanc will be mostly stretched out as I'd assume most of his appearances will be of the 3-4 inning variety.

 

 

No reason to assume this.

 

Burke Badenhop had 141 relief appearances with the Marlins. 10 of them went at least 3 innings.

LeBlanc will be mostly stretched out as I'd assume most of his appearances will be of the 3-4 inning variety.

 

 

No reason to assume this.

 

Burke Badenhop had 141 relief appearances with the Marlins. 10 of them went at least 3 innings.

 

Because Badenhop isn't that good. He royally sucks against left-handed hitters and, at times, was used the wrong way, as well.

 

Anyway, you're comparing a guy who's had some success as a starter in the big leagues (LeBlanc) to a guy who's never had any success as a starter in the big leagues (Badenhop).

 

LeBlanc will probably go more innings per appearance because he can without absolutely imploding as evidenced by what he's done as a starter.

 

And there's no reason to use him otherwise so that'll be his role.

 

Our bullpen, 1-6, is deeper this year than it's been in years to open up the season.

Also, Badenhop wasn't used as the long reliever because the Marlins decided to use Brian Sanches in the role instead. So I think you'd be better off comparing LeBlanc to Sanches.

Also, Badenhop wasn't used as the long reliever because the Marlins decided to use Brian Sanches in the role instead. So I think you'd be better off comparing LeBlanc to Sanches.

 

 

6 out of 145 appearances.

 

Who's the next guy we should compare?

 

Long relievers are used for 3-4 innings extremely rarely. LeBlanc would not be anywhere close to stretched out if they kept him in the bullpen. It's a penny-wise, pound-foolish strategy to keep him in the bullpen in a low-leverage role.

 

As you said yourself:

 

And there's no reason to use him otherwise so that'll be his role.

 

Whatever moderate gains he gives us in the rare times he pitches out of the pen are negated by the long-term benefits of keeping him stretched out and ready to step in.

 

If we want a long reliever, go with a guy like Tom Koehler who probably has no future with the organization as a starter anyways, and who at least can dial it up a bit and give you max effort for a few innings. See if you find something there by letting him go max for a few innings at a time, because if it doesn't work, you've lost nothing long term.

Wade LeBlanc really has no future in this organization as a starter either. At least I'd hope not. Hence the reason why I don't see the big deal.

 

The #'s only prove that the Marlins should be using their long relievers in a better way; at the end of the day, LeBlanc should be the long reliever and should be used in the 3-4 inning role we're talking about even if it hasn't been done before.

 

LeBlanc hopefully never starts because he's not good at all. He'll be the long reliever because he's been our best pitcher in the small sample of ST and we have no other clear alternatives.

 

As to who would come up if we need someone to start, it definitely wouldn't be someone like Elih Villanueva as someone else said earlier in the thread. Our SP depth is bad but it's not that absolutely terrible. I'd imagine the "#6" is Brad Hand at this point, who actually might have a future as a starter with the organization.

I'm with Bobbob, here. That last bullpen spot is so unimportant and opportunities for long relief are pretty uncommong, while the 6th starter is often a vital component of a team's regular-season success. It seems a better use of resources to preserve Leblanc for the latter.

 

We have to compare the value lost because of decreased production from that (5th) starters spot (either because Leblanc has to go to the minors to stretch out, or when he can't function as a full "starter" because he's stretching out while at the big-league level) plus the value he adds as the 7th BP arm/long reliever now, versus his value being in the minors now but being ready to jump in at full steam.

 

I think the latter is greater.

Want him stretched out, and not for spot starts. If a starter goes down for a significant amount of time, I don't want to have to scramble to get a guy stretched out or go with subpar options because the LR isn't ready.

 

If Wade LeBlanc never spends a day with the major league team this year, I'm thrilled, because it means we don't have a use for him.

 

 

who would you prefer then?

 

they now have a use for another reliever because Ceda is out. If you want Gaudin, fine. Or they'll have to roll the dice with someone else. LeBlanc's had a nice spring, I think he deserves some time in the pen here. If someone goes down they'll adjust. I think every pitcher is a bit different, some don't need a lot of time to adjust to throwing 5 or 6 innings, LeBlanc isn't exactly a max effort guy anyway. They'll figure it out. Anyway, not a huge deal.

Wade LeBlanc really has no future in this organization as a starter either. At least I'd hope not. Hence the reason why I don't see the big deal.

 

The #'s only prove that the Marlins should be using their long relievers in a better way; at the end of the day, LeBlanc should be the long reliever and should be used in the 3-4 inning role we're talking about even if it hasn't been done before.

 

LeBlanc hopefully never starts because he's not good at all. He'll be the long reliever because he's been our best pitcher in the small sample of ST and we have no other clear alternatives.

 

As to who would come up if we need someone to start, it definitely wouldn't be someone like Elih Villanueva as someone else said earlier in the thread. Our SP depth is bad but it's not that absolutely terrible. I'd imagine the "#6" is Brad Hand at this point, who actually might have a future as a starter with the organization.

 

 

How often are there legitimate opportunities where you'd want to use a guy like Leblanc for 3-4 innings? That's mostly in blowouts that get out of hand early, which really aren't all that common. Even if he were used every single time in this role, I doubt he'd get more than 30 such innings. And those are the lowest-leverage innings possible.I'd strongly prefer Brad Hand to get as much seasoning in the minors as possible. He certainly wasn't ready last year. And let him be the 7th SP option. Anibal and JJ has serious injury histories, Zambrano and Ricky have missed time, and Buehrle is old. We're going to need some help eventually.

Want him stretched out, and not for spot starts. If a starter goes down for a significant amount of time, I don't want to have to scramble to get a guy stretched out or go with subpar options because the LR isn't ready.

 

If Wade LeBlanc never spends a day with the major league team this year, I'm thrilled, because it means we don't have a use for him.

 

 

who would you prefer then?

 

they now have a use for another reliever because Ceda is out.  If you want Gaudin, fine.  Or they'll have to roll the dice with someone else.  LeBlanc's had a nice spring, I think he deserves some time in the pen here.  If someone goes down they'll adjust.  I think every pitcher is a bit different, some don't need a lot of time to adjust to throwing 5 or 6 innings, LeBlanc isn't exactly a max effort guy anyway.  They'll figure it out.  Anyway, not a huge deal.

 

Some free agent who can put up a 4.50-5.00 ERA. Whatever. The 7th spot is much less important than your 6th starter.

That last bullpen spot is so unimportant and opportunities for long relief are pretty uncommong,

 

Sure.

 

But if that's the case, everyone wouldn't be upset with Chad Gaudin being on the roster which apparently wouldn't be the case.

 

Most long relievers suck; they're just there for irrelevant innings. LeBlanc and Gaudin both suck; LeBlanc just so happens to suck less.

Wade LeBlanc really has no future in this organization as a starter either. At least I'd hope not. Hence the reason why I don't see the big deal.

 

The #'s only prove that the Marlins should be using their long relievers in a better way; at the end of the day, LeBlanc should be the long reliever and should be used in the 3-4 inning role we're talking about even if it hasn't been done before.

 

LeBlanc hopefully never starts because he's not good at all. He'll be the long reliever because he's been our best pitcher in the small sample of ST and we have no other clear alternatives.

 

As to who would come up if we need someone to start, it definitely wouldn't be someone like Elih Villanueva as someone else said earlier in the thread. Our SP depth is bad but it's not that absolutely terrible. I'd imagine the "#6" is Brad Hand at this point, who actually might have a future as a starter with the organization.

 

 

How often are there legitimate opportunities where you'd want to use a guy like Leblanc for 3-4 innings? That's mostly in blowouts that get out of hand early, which really aren't all that common. Even if he were used every single time in this role, I doubt he'd get more than 30 such innings. And those are the lowest-leverage innings possible.I'd strongly prefer Brad Hand to get as much seasoning in the minors as possible. He certainly wasn't ready last year. And let him be the 7th SP option. Anibal and JJ has serious injury histories, Zambrano and Ricky have missed time, and Buehrle is old. We're going to need some help eventually.

 

That's fine.

 

Just put Chad Gaudin in the role since it's so irrelevant then. I'd have no problem with that either.

Want him stretched out, and not for spot starts. If a starter goes down for a significant amount of time, I don't want to have to scramble to get a guy stretched out or go with subpar options because the LR isn't ready.

 

If Wade LeBlanc never spends a day with the major league team this year, I'm thrilled, because it means we don't have a use for him.

 

 

who would you prefer then?

 

they now have a use for another reliever because Ceda is out. If you want Gaudin, fine. Or they'll have to roll the dice with someone else. LeBlanc's had a nice spring, I think he deserves some time in the pen here. If someone goes down they'll adjust. I think every pitcher is a bit different, some don't need a lot of time to adjust to throwing 5 or 6 innings, LeBlanc isn't exactly a max effort guy anyway. They'll figure it out. Anyway, not a huge deal.

 

Some free agent who can put up a 4.50-5.00 ERA. Whatever. The 7th spot is much less important than your 6th starter.

 

So, Chad Gaudin...

That's fine, I'd rather have Gaudin there than LeBlanc. Sure.

 

Starting pitching depth, even if it's just in the form of a 'fifth-starter at best' guy is more important than the 7th guy in the pen.

 

But there are still better options than Gaudin out there that aren't LeBlanc. It's not an either/or proposition, so I don't know why you keep classifying it as such.

That's fine, I'd rather have Gaudin there than LeBlanc. Sure.

 

Starting pitching depth, even if it's just in the form of a 'fifth-starter at best' guy is more important than the 7th guy in the pen.

 

But there are still better options than Gaudin out there that aren't LeBlanc. It's not an either/or proposition, so I don't know why you keep classifying it as such.

 

 

Do you have anyone specifically in mind?

My point is that I don't see the team acquiring anyone better than spot starter caliber at this point of Spring Training. I could be wrong.

 

If we acquire someone, it's certainly possible he'd be better than Gaudin but likely not much better.

 

Best thing to do is to just try guys out and see what sticks. You can get lucky with a reliever especially since the sample per season is pretty small. We were lucky with Brian Sanches for years.

 

As much as he sucks, Gaudin had a 4.50 ERA in 48 innings with the Yankees in 2010.

That's fine, I'd rather have Gaudin there than LeBlanc. Sure.

 

Starting pitching depth, even if it's just in the form of a 'fifth-starter at best' guy is more important than the 7th guy in the pen.

 

But there are still better options than Gaudin out there that aren't LeBlanc. It's not an either/or proposition, so I don't know why you keep classifying it as such.

 

 

I care more about keeping Leblanc starting in AAA than I care about who fills the last spot, Gaudin or otherwise.I'm not sure why all the hate for Gaudin, in fact.  He's not good, but at least he gets some Ks.  His 6.5 ERA last year was over 8 innings, and his 48 innings with the Yankees weren't bad (4.50 ERA) in 2010.  I could live with him in the 7th spot.  Plus, he's been a starter in the past, so maybe he can pick up those innings in blowouts.

You guys do realize that when you cite his Yankees numbers that he had an 8.83 ERA in 17 innings that same season with Oakland, right?

 

He has a 5.01 ERA over the last three seasons with 1.3 HR/9 and a sub-2 K/BB ratio.

 

Like I said, I'd rather go with a guy like Tom Koehler who is at least young and has some moderate upside. He's been a starter his whole career, so let's see if he can find some success as a reliever in small spurts. He's long been a guy who people have said might have to move to the pen eventually anyways.

 

There is zero upside in Gaudin, and a very high chance that he is awful. Best case scenario, Gaudin isn't losing you games. Why not go with some guy who can maybe win you one some day?

You guys do realize that when you cite his Yankees numbers that he had an 8.83 ERA in 17 innings that same season with Oakland, right?

 

He has a 5.01 ERA over the last three seasons with 1.3 HR/9 and a sub-2 K/BB ratio.

 

Like I said, I'd rather go with a guy like Tom Koehler who is at least young and has some moderate upside. He's been a starter his whole career, so let's see if he can find some success as a reliever in small spurts. He's long been a guy who people have said might have to move to the pen eventually anyways.

 

There is zero upside in Gaudin, and a very high chance that he is awful. Best case scenario, Gaudin isn't losing you games. Why not go with some guy who can maybe win you one some day?

 

Yeah sure, why not?

 

I could live with that too.

Want him stretched out, and not for spot starts. If a starter goes down for a significant amount of time, I don't want to have to scramble to get a guy stretched out or go with subpar options because the LR isn't ready.

 

If Wade LeBlanc never spends a day with the major league team this year, I'm thrilled, because it means we don't have a use for him.

 

 

who would you prefer then?

 

they now have a use for another reliever because Ceda is out. If you want Gaudin, fine. Or they'll have to roll the dice with someone else. LeBlanc's had a nice spring, I think he deserves some time in the pen here. If someone goes down they'll adjust. I think every pitcher is a bit different, some don't need a lot of time to adjust to throwing 5 or 6 innings, LeBlanc isn't exactly a max effort guy anyway. They'll figure it out. Anyway, not a huge deal.

Willis looks perfect right now as a Mop Up/ Long Reliver-- too bad hes in baltimore

I wanted Willis a LOOGY, not a long man.

Want him stretched out, and not for spot starts. If a starter goes down for a significant amount of time, I don't want to have to scramble to get a guy stretched out or go with subpar options because the LR isn't ready.

 

If Wade LeBlanc never spends a day with the major league team this year, I'm thrilled, because it means we don't have a use for him.

 

 

who would you prefer then?

 

they now have a use for another reliever because Ceda is out. If you want Gaudin, fine. Or they'll have to roll the dice with someone else. LeBlanc's had a nice spring, I think he deserves some time in the pen here. If someone goes down they'll adjust. I think every pitcher is a bit different, some don't need a lot of time to adjust to throwing 5 or 6 innings, LeBlanc isn't exactly a max effort guy anyway. They'll figure it out. Anyway, not a huge deal.

Willis looks perfect right now as a Mop Up/ Long Reliver-- too bad hes in baltimore

 

No he really doesn't.

One point I just wanted touch on about Leblanc, probably the biggest reason we picked him up is because he has that option left. He was never expected to be in our rotation unless an injury came up. And since we have no injuries in the rotation, I think they'll utilize that option right off the bat. period.

I wanted Willis a LOOGY, not a long man.

 

I thought that's why we signed Choate to a 2 year deal last off-season.