June 21, 201412 yr So, since the rotation is a hit or miss thing right now, let's try and follow our starting pitchers that could be up this season. Surprisingly, the next starter could be Elih Villanueva. Dude is having a fantastic season in New Orleans under the radar, http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=t588&t=p_pbp&pid=534631. Now that the Heaney Watch is over, let's collectively watch our other starters...
June 21, 201412 yr Author Seriously...Elih Villanueva? I seriously think you are trolling at this point. The numbers are the numbers. Not sure why they should be ignored. Somebody probably said that about Tom Koehler a year ago, BTW.
June 21, 201412 yr You realize over the last 7 or so starts Tom Koehler has been regressing back to the pitcher everyone expected him to be and the numbers suggested he was, right? Either way, Villanueva is not good.
June 22, 201412 yr Vilanueva had his one chance at the majors back when our starting pitching was weak and didn't take advantage. Now we have an abundance of pitching prospects and Vilanueva will likely forever be a career minor leaguer. Vilanueva is similar to what Koehler was. Guy who did decently in the minors back was never really taken seriously as a major league option. Koehler improved his stuff and eventually took advantage of his shot at the majors. Vilanueva didn't. He isn't somebody any of us should take seriously at this point.
June 22, 201412 yr You realize over the last 7 or so starts Tom Koehler has been regressing back to the pitcher everyone expected him to be and the numbers suggested he was, right? Either way, Villanueva is not good. This post was supposed to insult Koehler, and I understand the point of regression with Koehler, but the regression seems to point to the fact that Koehler this year is likely a high 3, low 4 ERA pitcher. That's numbers you hope from your #3 or #4 starter usually let alone your #5. I've been incredibly impressed with Koehler even while I was one of the people predicting he would do well at the start of the season. My point here is that Koehler isn't Vilanueva. Koehler's actually got decent enough movement on his pitches and zip on his fastball to put away hitters at the major league level. Vilanueva might be able to get away with what he has in AAA based on experience and pitchability, but at the majors he would get completely wrecked. Koehler despite his setbacks and regression to the mean still makes for a viable major league pitching option.
June 22, 201412 yr In my book the next one to watch would be Jose Urena he has the best stuff of all 2nd best change up of all Marlins prospects and a heater that touches 98 mph. I would say Conley but he has been struggling
June 22, 201412 yr My hope is that Jose Urena and Jarlin Garcia are going to be some solid bullpen arms in the future
June 22, 201412 yr Author If not Villanueva, we've mostly assumed Flynn would be next. But with Villanueva's ERA almost a run lower, how do you ignore that? Some of you guys don't understand this concept that players can improve with time and experience. Especially young players that are developing through the minor league system. I bet nobody here has seen him pitch since 2011. Yet we make assumptions he's the same pitcher that we saw 3 years ago for 3 innings. Things can change.
June 22, 201412 yr Villanueva is 28 years old and has never been good. He doesnt have good stuff. And this is his 4th season in New Orleans. Some Wild Cards dont understand baseball.
June 22, 201412 yr Author Villanueva is 28 years old and has never been good. He doesnt have good stuff. And this is his 4th season in New Orleans. Some Wild Cards dont understand baseball. Koehler is 27 or 28, what's you're point? It means he isn't really a prospect, it doesn't mean he's not effective.
June 22, 201412 yr Like I've said before, Koehler's got stuff to get major league hitters out. Vilanueva doesn't. It's as simple as that. It's nice that Vilanueva is doing decently in AAA, but he's a flyball pitcher who doesn't strike anybody out. Every number on him and what he showed in 2011 says that his stuff is incredibly hittable, thus why he was hit so damn hard in his one major league trip. I don't even understand why we're really even arguing this. Not every pitcher having a decent season at AAA deserves to be looked at as a major league option. Koehler was a rare case, and he only became a guy to look at because his fastball improved a tick or two, his control improved, and his off speed stuff started biting more with some fine tuning. There are absolutely no reports or signs that Vilanueva has improved his game in the least in his time in the minors regardless of his ERA. The guy is minor league fodder. The pitchers we are at the moment to take seriously in the minor league system or recently in the minor league system include Heaney, Desclafani, Conley, Urena, Brice, Nicolino and Flynn. There might be a guy or two missing but these are the guys in AA or higher who have shown good enough stuff to be considered a potential #5 starter at the least and are performing at a decent enough level. Scouting isn't just looking at a pitchers ERA and lining up the guys who have the lowest to be future starters. Vilanueva does not deserve to be considered for the majors anytime in the near future, nor should he. We are stacked in regards to starting pitching prospects. There is absolutely no reason for Vilanueva to jump any of these guys in the order or even some of the good pitchers we have going in Jupiter/Greensboro currently like German/Williams/Garcia/Lyman/etc...
June 22, 201412 yr Author So with Disco's start today... maybe I should make this a poll, because it's likely going to be somebody else soon.
June 22, 201412 yr Author Flynn Logic would have been Flynn the first time... But that's just me. They seem to like him as much as they enjoy Dietrich's company, lol.
June 23, 201412 yr The problem is that apart from Heaney, the SP prospects at AAA and AA are all overrated. Flynn will be hit just as hard as Disco has been, and I think this would hold true as well for Nicolino, who does not have swing and miss stuff. Doesn't really matter who they bring up in my book. The fifth starter will continue to be a sore spot.
June 24, 201412 yr Author Villanueva has earned a shot with a WHIP around 1.0 Nicolino next. Then Conley and Flynn. You would think, but apparently that's crazy talk.
June 24, 201412 yr I will say, with Villanueva, he's really only had one opportunity in the bigs, and yeah, he sucked, he sucked bad. Gave up 8 runs in 3 innings, walked 5. That's just bad. I wouldn't want to see that guy on the mound, ever. ... but that was 3 years ago. Since then, his ERA and WHIP have both dropped each year in AAA. Is he great? No. Is he really even "good"? Not exactly, but he's possibly just above average right now, and not the worst option available.
June 24, 201412 yr Author Adam Conley Didn't he just get off the DL? And hasn't he been very inconsistent most of the year?
June 24, 201412 yr Didn't he just get off the DL? And hasn't he been very inconsistent most of the year? Sure, if you only care about ERA. Conley has the best stuff/peripherals of the remaining group.
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