Post Game 9/13

[canada-marlin24]

Yeah. This season is over.

 

Hand was solid but I guess they dont realize outhitting the other team doesnt mean anything.

 

Two pathetic offensive performances. And I know we basically have no shot, but everyone else is losing.

 

But for fuck's sake, I will feel much worse about this season if we finish close to the Phillies and Mets.

 

 

[pollythewog]

why is solano still on this team?

 

 

[SongInTheAir]

why is solano still on this team?

 

Because he is the second baseman of the future. Hech and Solano up the middle for the next 10-15 years! GO MARLINS

 

 

[SilverBullet]

To be fair, I don't think they truly see Solano as the answer. While he's spent an infinite amount of time there, they've tried several options besides him and since none have stuck they just continue to fall back to him as their most consistent option.

 

I'm just comparing it to Hech, who they insist is the best and who they never replace, and who they never tinker with and who they never try and bring competition too. Comparing Hech at SS to Solano, Dietrich, Valdespin, Kike, Lucas, Furcal, and even Jeff Baker at 2nd is a way different story.

[Wild Card]

To be fair, I don't think they truly see Solano as the answer. While he's spent an infinite amount of time there, they've tried several options besides him and since none have stuck they just continue to fall back to him as their most consistent option.

 

I'm just comparing it to Hech, who they insist is the best and who they never replace, and who they never tinker with and who they never try and bring competition too. Comparing Hech at SS to Solano, Dietrich, Valdespin, Kike, Lucas, Furcal, and even Jeff Baker at 2nd is a way different story.

 

 

Dietrich has proven with every opportunity he is the best option we have. It's ridiculous that they have kept giving the starts to Solano.

 

Then they trade for Kike because they're so excited about his bat, but never gave him more than one start before sending him down until Sept. It's stupid.

[canada-marlin24]

Its true, I would think Kike would have gotten more time though Solano has done a solid job.

 

I am also shocked that they have not called Dietrich up.

 

 

[pollythewog]

so then back to my original question, why is solano still on this team?

 

 

[Wild Card]

so then back to my original question, why is solano still on this team?

 

 

As much as I get on Solano as a starter, I am totally cool with him as our reserve IFer. In that capacity, he's completely fine and I'm happy to have him.

 

 

[pollythewog]

As much as I get on Solano as a starter, I am totally cool with him as our reserve IFer. In that capacity, he's completely fine and I'm happy to have him.

 

 

But he's our every day 2b...

 

Outside of Solano's flukey as fuck 2012, since 2013 his slash line .247/.304/.619. This is our #2 hitter. Not sure how that is acceptable.

 

 

[JackRubysDog]

If there's anything good to come of the Stanton injury, it's the firm indication of how terrible the Marlins are without him. Loria may work out its far cheaper to offer Stanton a mega contract than sign six new positional players.

 

 

[Wild Card]

But he's our every day 2b...

 

Outside of Solano's flukey as fuck 2012, since 2013 his slash line .247/.304/.619. This is our #2 hitter. Not sure how that is acceptable.

 

 

Again, totally agree. So as a starter, fuck that guy. But to say he shouldn't be on the team is a bit harsh, he's an acceptable and average middle IF reserve that does exactly what you need off the bench and is fairly consistent.

 

I wish Casey McGehee was our #2 hitter, he'd be perfect in that spot, TBH. Our first three hitters with OBP all over .363, and Ozuna waiting to drive 'em in? Oh, yea, that'd be fun to watch.

 

For a manager that thinks outside the box, I wish Red would do something ballsy like that. Remember when Francona got in a pinch and used to have Youk lead off when his OBP was .400+? That was brilliant, and better yet, it worked. The problem this year is that it would leave the 5-7 spots with an average K rate of about 30%+ and the 8 spot being Hech. Next year, if they can get a Sandoval-type guy to bat 5th, it could be a lot of fun.

 

 

[pollythewog]

Again, totally agree. So as a starter, fuck that guy. But to say he shouldn't be on the team is a bit harsh, he's an acceptable and average middle IF reserve that does exactly what you need off the bench and is fairly consistent.

 

I wish Casey McGehee was our #2 hitter, he'd be perfect in that spot, TBH. Our first three hitters with OBP all over .363, and Ozuna waiting to drive 'em in? Oh, yea, that'd be fun to watch.

 

For a manager that thinks outside the box, I wish Red would do something ballsy like that. Remember when Francona got in a pinch and used to have Youk lead off when his OBP was .400+? That was brilliant, and better yet, it worked. The problem this year is that it would leave the 5-7 spots with an average K rate of about 30%+ and the 8 spot being Hech. Next year, if they can get a Sandoval-type guy to bat 5th, it could be a lot of fun.

 

 

Casey's 2nd half obp (.323) is a lot more indicative of his real obp when all those ground balls are going to players instead of holes. He's still a better option than solano and has absolutely no reason to be hitting cleanup with that GB %.

 

 

[Wild Card]

Casey's 2nd half obp (.323) is a lot more indicative of his real obp when all those ground balls are going to players instead of holes. He's still a better option than solano and has absolutely no reason to be hitting cleanup with that GB %.

 

 

Yea, but Casey's K/BB rates say he's a great option to bat second, and the GB% can be used to your advantage when you have Yelich ahead of him. It allows you to put the hit and run into action and not fear the GIDP because of Yelich is on the move. And not fear that you'll see a ton of swing and miss situations lead to Yelich being caught stealing, because Casey constantly barrells up on the ball. And even if the worst case happens and you get the rare swing and miss from Casey with Yelich on the run, 80% of the time he is able to swipe the bag, eliminate the GIDP threat, and get into scoring position for Casey, if not Stanton.

 

 

[SilverBullet]

Dietrich has proven with every opportunity he is the best option we have. It's ridiculous that they have kept giving the starts to Solano.

 

Then they trade for Kike because they're so excited about his bat, but never gave him more than one start before sending him down until Sept. It's stupid.

 

 

The mishandling of Dietrich and Kike doesn't change my point that they've tried multiple second base options before going back to Solano. While they clearly haven't noticed Dietrich is the best option and while they haven't given Kike much of a shot, they still have "tried" many second basemen. My comparison of Hech still fits. How many shortstops have been given an opportunity in the last two seasons?

 

All I was saying is that the front office will tell u eight days a week that Hech is their all star shortstop of the future without a shadow of a doubt. But they've never once said anything close to Solano definitively being their be all end all second baseman.

[Wild Card]

The mishandling of Dietrich and Kike doesn't change my point that they've tried multiple second base options before going back to Solano. While they clearly haven't noticed Dietrich is the best option and while they haven't given Kike much of a shot, they still have "tried" many second basemen. My comparison of Hech still fits. How many shortstops have been given an opportunity in the last two seasons?

 

 

It's a lot harder to find a good SS than a good 2B. And who do you suggest they "try" to replace Hech with?

 

Everyone keeps beating this dead horse, but Hech has been a positive defender this year (while not the elite SS he is touted to be) and believe it or not he's been a positive offensive contributor as well, both according to WAR.

 

Hech is not our problem. Second base and first base are MUCH bigger problems this team is facing in 2015.

 

Our collective SS (almost entirely Hech) this season have produced a .673 OPS, 16th of 30 in MLB this year and have 15 errors, sitting at 14th in MLB.

 

Our collective 2B this season have produced a .628 OPS, good for 23rd in MLB (boosted by Dietrich's stint as the starter), and they have 16 errors, 26th best in baseball.

 

Our collective 1B this season have produced a .723 OPS this year, 18th in the game, and they have 14 errors, good for 26th in baseball.

 

So if I'm the Marlins, I'm putting SS on the back burner after this year (not that it wasn't already). If Dietrich had gotten the chance to play most of the year, and continued to post a .700+ OPS (entirely likely), with a .700+ OPS at 2B our team would jump from 23rd to 10th in baseball, or from the worst 1/3 to the best 1/3 of offensive 2B in the game. With Kike's potential as a right-handed bat to compliment him, that should be a no-brainer internal solution.

 

It's Garrett Jones and his -1.0 WAR that need to go, really. That's kind of what I've determined.

 

 

[pollythewog]

Here we go again WC. Adeiny is ranked 20th of 22 defensively among SS's in the mlb (Again you're pulling a WC and conviently using errors to judge his defensive performance). He is not very good and he is a huge problem. But yes, 2b is a probably a bigger problem, but that doesn't take away that we are absolutely horrendous at SS both offensively and defensively.

 

Also, when Casey hits like he has in the 2nd half all of next year, then 3B is going to also be a huge problem. We're looking at a 0.0 WAR infield in 2015 if we're lucky.

 

In conclusion, the whole fucking infield is a huge problem.

 

 

[Wild Card]

Here we go again WC. Adeiny is ranked 20th of 22 defensively among SS's in the mlb (Again you're pulling a WC and conviently using errors to judge his defensive performance). He is not very good and he is a huge problem. But yes, 2b is a probably a bigger problem, but that doesn't take away that we are absolutely horrendous at SS both offensively and defensively.

 

Also, when Casey hits like he has in the 2nd half all of next year, then 3B is going to also be a huge problem. We're looking at a 0.0 WAR infield in 2015 if we're lucky.

 

In conclusion, the whole fucking infield is a huge problem.

 

 

I'm not comparing Hech to other people. I'm comparing our collective SS production this season to that of the rest of MLB, and those are the results. We are 16th offensively and 14th defensively. I know errors aren't the advanced metrics that everybody wants to use, but it's still going to give you an idea of the consistency of our defensive performance. I think we could all agree Adeiny is a league average defender at SS and our 1B and 2B production has been close to the worst in the game. That's what the errors say, and I doubt anyone here would dispute any of it.

 

 

[pollythewog]

I'm not comparing Hech to other people. I'm comparing our collective SS production this season to that of the rest of MLB, and those are the results. We are 16th offensively and 14th defensively. I know errors aren't the advanced metrics that everybody wants to use, but it's still going to give you an idea of the consistency of our defensive performance. I think we could all agree Adeiny is a league average defender at SS and our 1B and 2B production has been close to the worst in the game. That's what the errors say, and I doubt anyone here would dispute any of it.

 

 

I don't agree he is league average. Fangraphs has him bottom of the barrel among qualified starters defenisvely. I also watch him every day and am pretty unimpressed with his first step. It's why he is not elite (and his range to his left). I'd be prefectly fine with hiis offense if he wasn't a bottom tier defender.

 

PS 1b and 2b production has been atrocious obvously.

 

 

[SilverBullet]

Dude I'm not arguing for or against Hech or who we should or shouldn't try to replace him with.

 

When I clicked on this post this morning I saw that someone asked why the front office insists on throwing Solano out there and Song responded (I'm sure somewhat jokingly) that the team thinks Solano is the 2B of the future for this team.

 

That got me thinking that the front office doesn't really insist on putting Solano out there and they don't really think he's some superstar 2B. I proved my point by listing all of the other second basemen that the team has attempted to use, for better or worse. And then I further tried proving my point by only comparing the absolute facts that in the last two seasons the team has tried numerous 2B options while at times sending Solano to AAA and also using him as a bench player. All while Hech has been the only option used at SS.

 

Therefore... My bottom line... The Miami Marlins do not definitively view Donovan Solano as their best second base option in the way that they view Adeiny Hechavarria to be their best shortstop option. That is all. Anything else is a misconstruction of what I was trying to say.

[Wild Card]

Therefore... My bottom line... The Miami Marlins do not definitively view Donovan Solano as their best second base option in the way that they view Adeiny Hechavarria to be their best shortstop option. That is all. Anything else is a misconstruction of what I was trying to say.

 

 

Well, yea, I'm sure we can all agree with this. I thought somewhere you implied that they need to explore replacing Adeiny every bit as much as they need to explore finding the next second baseman.

 

 

[pollythewog]

Well, yea, I'm sure we can all agree with this. I thought somewhere you implied that they need to explore replacing Adeiny every bit as much as they need to explore finding the next second baseman.

 

 

They do.

 

 

[Wild Card]

They do.

 

 

No, they really don't. Second base is by far our weakest position, and if you take away the production DD gave us (because we all know he will never get another shot here) it was probably worst in the game.

 

Adeiny is not worst in the game. Not even close. (At least in 2014)

 

 

[pollythewog]

No, they really don't. Second base is by far our weakest position, and if you take away the production DD gave us (because we all know he will never get another shot here) it was probably worst in the game.

 

Adeiny is not worst in the game. Not even close. (At least in 2014)

 

 

He is close. Overall he's ranked 19 of 22 for qualified SS. That, in my humble opinion, is the definition of one of the worst in the game.

 

 

[pollythewog]

No, they really don't. Second base is by far our weakest position, and if you take away the production DD gave us (because we all know he will never get another shot here) it was probably worst in the game.

 

Adeiny is not worst in the game. Not even close. (At least in 2014)

 

 

Here's a fun one for you. For SS with min 250 ABs Adeiny is ranked 29th of 30. For 2b with min 250 ABs Solano is ranked 27 of 30. So one could actually make the argument SS is BIGGER need than SS.

 

This is total WAR btw.

 

 

[Michael]

Here's a fun one for you. For SS with min 250 ABs Adeiny is ranked 29th of 30. For 2b with min 250 ABs Solano is ranked 27 of 30. So one could actually make the argument SS is BIGGER need than SS.

 

This is total WAR btw.

 

A need so big, it outweighs even itself.