​Give me stats to support what you're saying (show me he does this more than trout, for instance). Why are you agreeing with these nitwits? I do this every year where I pull up Stanton's 840823103284230 OPS in high leverage situations and then they just ignore it (why do i even pull up stats?) and they cpntinue on their tyrades when he slumps for 20 ABs and shut up when he starts mashing again. 

 

I'm only talking about Stanton. I'm not comparing him to anyone else, not bringing up anyone else's stats. This is what I've seen for five years now with him and it just amazes me that time and time again, he strikes out on that exact pitch, as if he has no idea it's coming. Trout struck out more than Stanton did last year, I know, and I'm sure many came on sliders low and away, but do I care about that? No. I'm not an Angels fan. We are not Angels fans. We're focusing on our own nine figure player. I know the numbers, I know the stats. It's just infuriating to see it happen so often. I'd be OK with him striking out 150 times a year if the pitches were at least somewhat close for strike three.

 

 

Again, if he learns to take pitches then he will be OMG this guy is an ass kicker. He flails away and the pitchers feast. He homered on a power pitcher on his 112th pitch. I would have much rather have had that homer when we were down 4-2. But nope. Weak pop up. 

 

 

hey look I'll help you guys out, this year when the game is "late & close" he's OPSing at an atrocious .488. Last year that # was .932 in a much much higher sample size. So sure he sucks this year in those situations, but it's an historical anomaly. 

 

​OK, the .488 is an anomaly this year, yes.

 

But, historically? So was that .932.

 

Close and Late OPS by year:

 

2010: .620

2011: .758

2012: .708

2013: .876 [so it trended upward a bit there and into 2014]

 

 

How many times has he struck out with the game on the line? Where he can live up to that contract?

 

Really?! A month into a contract and he isn't living up to it?

 

 

Really?! A month into a contract and he isn't living up to it?

 

Okay. Fair play. When do you expect him to live up to that contract? I.e. When do you expect to lay off the sliders?

 

 

Okay. Fair play. When do you expect him to live up to that contract? I.e. When do you expect to lay off the sliders?

 

Now that's just a little bit of an overreach there. If he goes on, wins 3 or 4 MVP awards with us and gets us a title or two as the leading cause getting us to the playoffs, that'll be worth his contract x2. Just because he doesn't lay off the sliders doesn't mean he isn't worth it down the line.

 

 

I would still want Stanton up with the game on the line just because if he makes contact he is very dangerous... That said, there is still room for improvement with him... As I posted earlier there is a tendency from him to take his eyes off the ball when he chases pitches, especially low and away... If he can do better at following the ball as he swings,maybe even take those low and away pitches to right instead of missing badly, then watch out!!! instant MVP no contest

 

 

I would still want Stanton up with the game on the line just because if he makes contact he is very dangerous... That said, there is still room for improvement with him... As I posted earlier there is a tendency from him to take his eyes off the ball when he chases pitches, especially low and away... If he can do better at following the ball as he swings,maybe even take those low and away pitches to right instead of missing badly, then watch out!!! instant MVP no contest

 

Exactly. That's all there is to it. He has the potential for MVP but please lay off those pitches

 

 

Exactly. That's all there is to it. He has the potential for MVP but please lay off those pitches

 

​More than just potential. He most certainly would have been MVP if he didn't get hit in the face last year. 

 

 

It's not about the three-run homer every time he comes to the plate. It's about that he consistently, and in big situations, refuses to adjust to what the pictures are throwing him and to what appears like the entire w it's not about the three-run homer every time he comes to the plate. It's about that he consistently, and in big situations, refuses to adjust to what the pictures are throwing him and to what it role knows is coming. Why he doesn't realize that they're going to continue expanding the zone is beyond me at this point I love Stanton to death but enough is enough the guy needs to adjust he needs to lay off that pitch and if he does  he can be the best hitter in the game.  The scary hitters are the ones that you feel like no matter where you throw it they are either going to layoff or hit it. 

 

The most frustrating part is that we all know the slider is coming and as said above,  if these were actually good sliders it's one thing but it just looks like he's resigned to just flinging the bat with one hand.

 

 I don't think anybody here is looking forward to a Staten who hits a three run homerun and then strikes out the other three times.

 

​I agree that it is frustrating, as a fan, to watch him flail at those sliders down and away. Watching from home, you can predict those pitches the instant the count goes to 2 strikes, and when he swings at em thinking "how could you not know that was coming?!". You are right, once he can lay off those pitches consistently, he will be one of the most feared hitters in baseball; and I'm hopeful he can do that over the next 6 yrs (at least) as a Marlin. The sooner the better!

 

To clarify the point I was making: Stanton is leading the Majors in RBI's. So although we all want him to be the perfect, well-oiled machine we all know he can be RIGHT NOW, relatively, he's the best run producer in the majors and is due some slack from his fan base. 

 

 

To clarify the point I was making: Stanton is leading the Majors in RBI's. So although we all want him to be the perfect, well-oiled machine we all know he can be RIGHT NOW, relatively, he's the best run producer in the majors and is due some slack from his fan base. 

 

​This. I'd still take him at the plate in the 9th.  He just needs to adjust.  You can't really jack moon shots to left when they pitch low and away, he needs to learn to start going to right if he is being pitched like that until pitchers learn to stop that.  Sometimes contact is all you need instead of power.  Home runs are great but sometimes just putting the ball in play does more than a strike out.

 

 

Just remember he is only 25 years old. he will be better, I have no doubt about it. 

 

He is on pace to hit 158rbis with 41homers..hhow the heck is that not living up to his contract? 

 

 

Here's a pretty crazy Stanton split that tells you just how important he is to this team in general

 

wins: .327/.424/.633

 

losses: .196/.276/.412

 

 

​

 

​I agree that it is frustrating, as a fan, to watch him flail at those sliders down and away. Watching from home, you can predict those pitches the instant the count goes to 2 strikes, and when he swings at em thinking "how could you not know that was coming?!". You are right, once he can lay off those pitches consistently, he will be one of the most feared hitters in baseball; and I'm hopeful he can do that over the next 6 yrs (at least) as a Marlin. The sooner the better!

 

To clarify the point I was making: Stanton is leading the Majors in RBI's. So although we all want him to be the perfect, well-oiled machine we all know he can be RIGHT NOW, relatively, he's the best run producer in the majors and is due some slack from his fan base. 

 

​Some pretty crazy numbers but also on pace for 214 strikeouts. His potential is stupid good if he just stops losing so many at bats to bad pitches. 

 

 

Yelich rehab game @ Jupiter

 

: today 2-for-4 with 1 double and 1k

 

Very close to come back.

 

 

 There is no criticism. 

 

this dude trolls harder than any troll I've ever encountered.

 

I think the joke may be on us. 

 

​Give me stats to support what you're saying (show me he does this more than trout, for instance). Why are you agreeing with these nitwits? I do this every year where I pull up Stanton's 840823103284230 OPS in high leverage situations and then they just ignore it (why do i even pull up stats?) and they cpntinue on their tyrades when he slumps for 20 ABs and shut up when he starts mashing again. 

 

​Surprised nobody else has yet, but I'll bite.

 

Now, before I start, I will say I like Stanton.  Love him, think he'll be a HOFer and multi-MVP winner.  Great hitter, generally good with RISP.  That said, to deny that he has trouble with the slider is just out right shoving ones head into the sand.  He's been bad. Like, really bad at sliders down and away.  And we ARE talking about in comparison to everybody else as well.  Here is a pretty well rounded article detailing his struggles with Sliders and Curves, and hit has some fairly nice graphics as well: http://www.gammonsdaily.com/giancarlo-stanton-trouble-with-the-slurve/

 

That article was written sometime after the allstar break last year, before the face hit, so it's fairly up to date.  Another one here, http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/55427/giancarlo-stanton-and-inside-fastballs , is a bit more up to date, but doesn't go into as much details, only noting:

 

Stanton's biggest weakness? Sliders. He hit .184 (27-for-147) against them, although nine of those 27 hits were home runs. With two strikes, he hit .126 against sliders. So there you go. All you have to do is get ahead of him and throw him a good slider low and away.

 

But the most important part, and the reason we are so frustrated with Stanton when it comes to 2 strike counts with sliders, is mentioned in the first article:

 

From 2010 through last season, Stanton was only slightly more aggressive than the league-average hitter (44.9% swing rate) against curveballs and sliders, offering at 46.9% of those offerings in that span. However, Stanton has always had at least some amount of trouble at making contact on those swings, posting a 42.9% miss rate against breaking offerings — placing him in the top three percentile of qualified batters in this respect.

 

Those numbers have worsened this season as a whole, swinging at an increased 52.9% of all curves and sliders thrown to him, while whiffing on exactly of those swings (second highest among qualified batters to Adam Dunn‘s 52.9% miss rate) . While I have no problem with hitters being aggressive in the box — you need to swing the bat to get a base hit, after all — this approach tends to backfire quickly when you aren’t able to make at least some amount of contact on those swings.

 

If you want some more damning evidence, I suggest heading over to Fangraphs.  Pull up the Heatmaps, look at Pitch % '14-'15 vs RH with a 2 strike count (IE: the situations we are all concerned about).  You'll see that the VAST plurality of pitches are low and away (21.5% out of the strike zone down and away if you are looking at a 5x5 grid from pitchers perspective. I'm including the zones just to the right and just above of the lower left hand corner, if you're wondering where I'm getting these numbers from).  Then stroll over to Swing%, we find that Stanton is swinging at 41% of those pitches (55 out of 133...remember, all 133 of those pitches are on 2 strikes and out of the zone low and away).  Of all of those pitches, he's hit a total of 2 . That's not "hit" as in got a base hit, mind you.  That's "hit" as in "Made contact with" (cause his avg on balls in this area is a flat .000, so those two times either ended in a foul ball or an out).

 

For comparison against the League average:

 

'14-'15 vs RH with 2 strike count:

 

11.3% of pitches thrown in that same area (As compared to Stanton's 21.5%, so we know pitchers are targeting this area)

 

The league average batter swings at these pitches 22% of the time (9409 out of 42745 pitches thrown).  That's almost HALF of what Stanton does (41%).  

 

Further, the league average batter makes more contact, and this numbers not even close:

 

2670 out of those 9409 swings for a contact rate of 28%, compared to Stanton's 4% (2 out of 55).  

 

This last one isn't unexpected though, given how far back Stanton stands in the batters box.  It's not like the league average batter has a much higher batting average than Stanton on these pitches (.015 is still higher than .000 though), but they are fouling off these pitches much better and, more to the point, they are laying off these pitches FAR better then Stanton.

 

So to recap, of all of the two strike pitches thrown to Stanton since '14 (618), 133 have been low and away and have resulted in 53 strikeouts on 55 swings, all of which are way out from the norm posted by a league avg hitter.

 

A note to all of this: While the story is pretty telling as is, I have no way of actually identifying Sliders and Curveballs from other pitches using Fangraphs (at least, not the free version from what I can tell), in which these numbers are likely to look even worse (a hard thing to do).

 

It's not to say any of us think Stanton sucks overall and isn't worth that contract.  That's Vince crazy talk (sorry Vince).  But to deny his struggles with the down and away pitch, particularly the slider and curve down and away, is absolutely ridiculous head in sand idiocy.

 

 

Marlins are 6th in BA this season but 16th in OPS and 18th in SLG... the lack of power the rest of the team is providing is also making us focus even more on Stanton's at bats since he's the only one we expect to hit base clearing doubles or bombs.

 

And although we're middle of the pack when it comes to pitching ERA and pitching stats in general, we lead the league with 6 blown saves in 9 opportunities.

 

The lack of bombs creating instant offense to put games out of reach or to tie it to get us back into games that seemed lost and the frustrating amount of blown saves when we do have the league are frustrating us. And with good reason. All we can do is hope for a correction because I don't think we should be 28th in bombs and 1st in the league in blown saves.

 

 

Thank you Undakai. Great analysis. That's exeactly what I wanted

 

 

i never have said stanton sucks as a player sheesh. What do you want to me to say exactly? Oh yeah Stanton always hits everything. It's the ball's fault it got away and that stopped stanton from hitting it. I don't get about percentages and this and that. The only ONLY thing I care about are wins. I don't care if he hits 50 homers, strikes out 400 times, or never hits a homer again. I want Marlins wins. Should it be first and third and two outs and junior Felix himself is batting I expect runs or at least contact. 

 

If stanton struck out 400 times but we win a shit ton of games instead of worrying about the bullpen squandering leads and others failing in the clutch, the fuck do I care about what Stanton does?

 

i just want some mother fucking wins.