4 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I agree he is lacking offensively?

What are you talking about or your point? Because I literally agree and what's the point?

I was specifically pointing out the Outs Above Average part.

We all know he's sucked hitting whether we watch or not. lol

5 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

You're also proving my point, you remember the bad ones.

Is the position you three know more than professional scouting services?

I was simply pointing out one instance. I remember a few times where he looked like a gold glover out there, too, running down a ball in the gap very well. Unfortunately given the offensive state of the team, the bad far far far outweighs the good.

And not once have any of us said or really even implied that we know more than these "services" - one of which I even used to show he's a poor defender out there.

His outfielder jump is good so perhaps putting him in a corner outfield spot next year will bring his OOA up considerably.

1 minute ago, Michael said:

I was specifically pointing out the Outs Above Average part.

We all know he's sucked hitting whether we watch or not. lol

I missed the highlight - my mistake there.

So this is where you need to look at the numbers. 18th percentile, very bad. What's the hard date though? -2. He has made 2 less outs versus other CF. Minimum qualifying 50 attempts - https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielder&startYear=2022&endYear=2022&split=no&team=&range=year&min=50&pos=8&roles=&viz=hide

Two.

The end of the day is, he has "held his own" which I believe is "better" than what was anticipated. Note the jump score which is good. This is honestly my point. He should be in LF without a question primarily.

I don't know why I get into these debates here. He should be in LF, but he's shown enough to be able to dabble in CF. If the bat catches up, he's going to be good. Even if that's only against right handers.

1 minute ago, Michael said:

I was simply pointing out one instance. I remember a few times where he looked like a gold glover out there, too, running down a ball in the gap very well. Unfortunately given the offensive state of the team, the bad far far far outweighs the good.

And not once have any of us said or really even implied that we know more than these "services" - one of which I even used to show he's a poor defender out there.

His outfielder jump is good so perhaps putting him in a corner outfield spot next year will bring his OOA up considerably.

Not to hovertical whose eyes trump data. This is constant.

Regardless, YES TO THE BOLD WHICH IS WHAT I, DAS, AND MANY OTHER SAID IN MARCH AND KIM DIDN'T DO. This was an EASY one and SHE/THEY FAILED US.

10 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

You're also proving my point, you remember the bad ones.

Is the position you three know more than professional scouting services?

So are you saying scouts are useless? I mean they go watch the players in person. You should really tell Sherman this. It would save him quite a bit of money.

6 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Agree to disagree on Sanchez.  He wasnt a CF going into the 2022 season and nothing he has shown has changed that tbh.   I dont care what any analytical numbers say (none are really seen as gospel and thats part of the problem with them at this point), the eyeballs tell a different story.  You cant SOLELY rely upon analytical stats, baseball isnt actually played on a simulator, well except for OOTP these days.  You have to meld both the eyeballs with the statistical models, especially on defense because the models are still lacking in some areas.  The models show him basically as an average CF.  The eye balls say he is far below average CF.  meld the two together and he is probably a slightly below to below average CF.  

Bleday is a decent stop gap in CF and might as well throw him out there for the rest of this season because you have nobody else and you want to see what you have, but sooner or later, he needs to move to a corner.  

On the last part 100% agree.  Marlins still have no long term CF anywhere in their organization from AA and above that you would see as a long term piece to roam CF in loan depot field or whatever its called. 

I agree?

A slightly below average CF is likely what he is - and that is PRETTY OK - as your second one ESPECIALLY if he have a platoon split and can hit RHP. Which he might be able to as he is still a kid? He could be a good 4th OF? I don't know why I get yelled at for stating obvious truths.

Agree on Bleday? Likewise, maybe that makes Sanchez your 3rd CF if Bleday is better? If these guys hit, this is starting to become an interesting platoon if they get a real CF as Garcia, even if he never lives up to the contract, should be able to hit lefites.

Totally agree on CF! It's # 1 to do this offseason AGAIN and jesus christ they better do it this time!

1 minute ago, MarlinsLou said:

Totally agree on CF! It's # 1 to do this offseason AGAIN and jesus christ they better do it this time!

They won't and likely will retain the manager too for some reason.

1 minute ago, hovertical said:

So are you saying scouts are useless? I mean they go watch the players in person. You should really tell Sherman this. It would save him quite a bit of money.

This attempt at a zing falls flat considering it is not remotely accurate, but you can't outright ignore data. Go read Das point. Maybe hearing this from a different voice will make it resonate for you one of these days.

BTW - DLC sucks. Remember when you liked him in May and told me your eyes were right, and I told you the BABIP drop is coming and he can't play defense?

Just now, Michael said:

They won't and likely will retain the manager too for some reason.

And that will officially end the Marlins forever for me and go Florida Panthers. No CF + Don. I can't do it. I think everyone here would implode TBH.

1 minute ago, MarlinsLou said:

BTW - DLC sucks. Remember when you liked him in May and told me your eyes were right, and I told you the BABIP drop is coming and he can't play defense?

NOBODY SAID HE WAS GOOD, simply that he should have gotten opportunities until the BABIP rug was pulled from underneath him.

Another case of "we know Player X is FOR SURE bad and Player Y MIGHT be bad but let's go with the unknown in case he might be good now!" That was it.

1 minute ago, MarlinsLou said:

And that will officially end the Marlins forever for me and go Florida Panthers. No CF + Don. I can't do it. I think everyone here would implode TBH.

Yes I've already said I'm out for 2023 if Don stays.

Would require a major roster overhaul for me to stick around if he stayed.

1 minute ago, Michael said:

NOBODY SAID HE WAS GOOD, simply that he should have gotten opportunities until the BABIP rug was pulled from underneath him.

Another case of "we know Player X is FOR SURE bad and Player Y MIGHT be bad but let's go with the unknown in case he might be good now!" That was it.

Not sure I agree here. There was enthusiasm, and frankly, I agree to disagree he should have even been given a leash as the dumpster fire was clearly evident on the horizon. I suspect we can blame Kim again here for not even getting a MILB CF of note. Sorry Quinn and Hamilton. I've been saying this for months, all roads lead back to CF failure here. All of them.

1 minute ago, MarlinsLou said:

This attempt at a zing falls flat considering it is not remotely accurate, but you can't outright ignore data. Go read Das point. Maybe hearing this from a different voice will make it resonate for you one of these days.

BTW - DLC sucks. Remember when you liked him in May and told me your eyes were right, and I told you the BABIP drop is coming and he can't play defense?

 

I did like DLC and he was doing very well earlier this year when Soler was doing even worse.  Unfortunately, our idiot manager loves to sit guys that are hot for some reason and that time passed.  Soler has been nearly just as bad as DLC though since he gets his hits and offense in low leverage only situations -   and DLC still plays better defense and offers more speed on the bases than Soler at a cheaper price. 

Car salesmen must love you - you don't do any first-hand research yourself (i.e. watch the games) and just rely entirely on what someone else tells you. 

 

if anything this thread has gotten you to shorten your posts.  I should get some upvotes for that alone 😃

2 minutes ago, Michael said:

Yes I've already said I'm out for 2023 if Don stays.

Would require a major roster overhaul for me to stick around if he stayed.

For my own knowledge, is:

A FV50 bat (likely CF) for Salas/prospect trade. Play now player. We like this player ala Cabrera/Meyer enthusiasm.

and

Rizzo. Let's just say he comes home.

A major overhaul with a new manager?

Fortes, Stallings
Rizzo
Jazz
Wendle, Rojas
Anderson, Williams
Bleday
FV50, Sanchez
Garcia, Soler
Midseason - Groshans, Berry, Eury, Eder, Sixto

Every pitcher is retained. All of them. And Cooper and Berti were shot out here for two more RP with options to mix and match.

I'm looking for a floor of what is deemed acceptable as I am curious.


 

4 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

 

I'm looking for a floor of what is deemed acceptable as I am curious.


 

Just HOW curious?

2 minutes ago, hovertical said:

 

I did like DLC and he was doing very well earlier this year when Soler was doing even worse.  Unfortunately, our idiot manager loves to sit guys that are hot for some reason and that time passed.  Soler has been nearly just as bad as DLC though since he gets his hits and offense in low leverage only situations -   and DLC still plays better defense and offers more speed on the bases than Soler at a cheaper price. 

Car salesmen must love you - you don't do any first-hand research yourself (i.e. watch the games) and just rely entirely on what someone else tells you. 

 

He was never doing very well.

Soler has been worth 1.5 wins more than DLC this year. I'm not sure that is nearly as bad. Practically, $9.7m the two of them make should be devoted elsewhere so I think we both agree there.

The manager is an idiot. We agree again.

I bought my last car Summer 2020 with 0 APR, and it has risen in KBB value multiple thousands from initial purchase price. They emailed me last month asking if they could buy it for more than we bought 2+ years ago despite driving in that time. I am literally their worst nightmare, because you get the price you want when you print out every comparable vehicle online from a 250 mile radius and save yourself literally thousands by ACTUALLY doing the research. That being said, there is certainly a Covid-bump going on here so I can't take full credit. It's funny you think YOU are doing the research when you IGNORE the professionals. I'll go find the comps. What a disconnect from reality.

7 minutes ago, hovertical said:

if anything this thread has gotten you to shorten your posts.  I should get some upvotes for that alone 😃

When you lack substance, we get to jokes and memes.

No one is fooled.

Just now, MarlinsLou said:

When you lack substance, we get to jokes and memes.

No one is fooled.

Dude, 95% of the posts on this board (and most boards) are jokes, quips, one-liners.  Nobody is here for a peer-reviewed scientific study on how long a post has to be before people lose interest. 

You tend to ignore facts unless it's ones you've personally approved of.  I'm all good here. I come for fun banter.  It's also why I donated money to this site to keep it going. It's filled with amazing people to laugh with.

5 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

When you lack substance, we get to jokes and memes.

No one is fooled.

almost forgot to add a meme for you to help bolster your point...although i guess this is a gif.

25 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I agree?

A slightly below average CF is likely what he is - and that is PRETTY OK - as your second one ESPECIALLY if he have a platoon split and can hit RHP. Which he might be able to as he is still a kid? He could be a good 4th OF? I don't know why I get yelled at for stating obvious truths.

 

What Im basically saying is that I dont buy that Sanchez has really been average in CF this year defensively.  The stats I guess seem to show he has been averageish, but eyeballs say something different. 

Given that he literally cannot hit a left handed pitcher there is no way he can ever be considered to be a true cornerstone piece anyway on a side note.  Maybe he learns to hit lefties before he hits 30.  

If Marlins get an offer on him this winter for someone useful, they might be wise to move on from him and see if some other organization can instill in him the ability to hit lefties, because at this point, he is basically a part time player and you don't build around part time players.  

26 minutes ago, Michael said:

They won't and likely will retain the manager too for some reason.

The manager is done, he has basically more or less admitted to as much with recent comments.

27 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

BTW - DLC sucks. Remember when you liked him in May and told me your eyes were right, and I told you the BABIP drop is coming and he can't play defense?

he is proving what he is a 4th probably 5th outfielder that has been over exposed this year due to lack of depth and dumb decisions and as a result his warts are showing up more than they would if used properly. 

Just now, Das Texan said:

The manager is done, he has basically more or less admitted to as much with recent comments.

who would be your front-runner for manager if you were given the choice?

20 minutes ago, hovertical said:

 

 Soler has been nearly just as bad as DLC though since he gets his hits and offense in low leverage only situations -   and DLC still plays better defense and offers more speed on the bases than Soler at a cheaper price. 

 

 

I mean there are A LOT of people who would play better defense than Soler, tbh.  He is one of the worst outfielders in all of baseball.