Just now, hovertical said:

Cool so ignoring what Ng said entirely and moving the line yet again to cut her more slack.

 

What? I gave up on this team before you and everyone else besides Das. Just so you know.

They are losing no players. None of them are losing any perceivable value for who they are. Pablo is very valuable. Everyone else not so much. Flyer prospects, FV45 low ends at best (like what Wendle was traded for). None of this moves the needle whether they move or don't. No goalpost is being moved. 

This is making a mountain out of a mole hole complaining about deadline trades. She didn't not trade W. Contreras. THAT'S a real problem. 

This is a little annoying, but it's not a big deal. If they go this offseason and don't get a major CF, that's a big deal.

Ya I dont really understand the vitriol toward Ng on this one.

The only player she should have really shopped around on is Cooper and thats really only due to his age and performance this year, along with the position he plays (DH really and an average at best 1b). 

Aguilar has no market so who cares.

When you are a seller, you generally let buyers reach out to you.  There was no real fire under her ass to move anyone, everyone they want they will have again next year.

Everyone they dont want, there really was no market for because they suck or their contract status doesnt allow them to be actually traded (i.e. nobody wants them).

Other than trading for the sake of trading whats the point?

She did that last year somewhat and where did that get her?  Some trash catcher 'prospects' and a reserve outfielder Don plays way too much.

So what is the real motivation?  Unless someone is going to offer you something actually useful, there is no point in trading just to say you are trading.

The trade she did made, she is probably going to end up winning in 2-3 years.  

 

She should get hate for a number of things, not trading to appease the fans and acquiring trash is not one of them.   Its not her fault this was a weird deadline and teams that should have been buying really didnt.  

 

Like I said, Cub fans should really be pissed.

Rockie fans should be pissed (only team to do nothing!  hooray!)

*shrugs*

Apparently, we were close to trading Avisail for Marcell Ozuna? 

Let’s make it happen in the offseason, Avisail + Soler back to his favorite team, the Braves, to bring Marcell back to the Marlins.

All 3 players kind of suck at this point, but at least Ozuna reminds me of Sandy. 

39 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Ya I dont really understand the vitriol toward Ng on this one.

The only player she should have really shopped around on is Cooper and thats really only due to his age and performance this year, along with the position he plays (DH really and an average at best 1b). 

Aguilar has no market so who cares.

When you are a seller, you generally let buyers reach out to you.  There was no real fire under her ass to move anyone, everyone they want they will have again next year.

Everyone they dont want, there really was no market for because they suck or their contract status doesnt allow them to be actually traded (i.e. nobody wants them).

Other than trading for the sake of trading whats the point?

She did that last year somewhat and where did that get her?  Some trash catcher 'prospects' and a reserve outfielder Don plays way too much.

So what is the real motivation?  Unless someone is going to offer you something actually useful, there is no point in trading just to say you are trading.

The trade she did made, she is probably going to end up winning in 2-3 years.  

 

She should get hate for a number of things, not trading to appease the fans and acquiring trash is not one of them.   Its not her fault this was a weird deadline and teams that should have been buying really didnt.  

 

Like I said, Cub fans should really be pissed.

Rockie fans should be pissed (only team to do nothing!  hooray!)

*shrugs*

Totally. And don't forget Rockies signed Bard for like $19 million. Horrible moves.

Imagine she traded Pablo for the Mahle return - a trade just to make a trade. I think someone would burn down the building this server is located.

39 minutes ago, Erick said:

Apparently, we were close to trading Avisail for Marcell Ozuna? 

Let’s make it happen in the offseason, Avisail + Soler back to his favorite team, the Braves, to bring Marcell back to the Marlins.

All 3 players kind of suck at this point, but at least Ozuna reminds me of Sandy. 

It's basically a financial wash with Ozuna, but paid out 23-24 versus 23-24-25. I can't imagine they'd absorb Soler on top of that.

ZIPS thinks they both suck but Ozuna gets you half a win those years. You'd have to DH him. Soler is probably better in the field.

All of this is a mess so it doesn't matter. Might be better to get Garcia money off 2025 so I'd do it just for that I think.

Happy Sandy. 

I remember people telling us "Wait til the off-season" this time last year and we saw how the off-season went. Hard to believe people are going with the same line again. Guess we can expect it a year from now as well.

2 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

I remember people telling us "Wait til the off-season" this time last year and we saw how the off-season went. Hard to believe people are going with the same line again. Guess we can expect it a year from now as well.

It's like you've seen the future!

4 hours ago, SonOfJack said:

I remember people telling us "Wait til the off-season" this time last year and we saw how the off-season went. Hard to believe people are going with the same line again. Guess we can expect it a year from now as well.

You have to look at things individually.

The Marlins going into this season with the roster they did was criminal.  Mostly because fans saw (righfully) as this team only a piece or two away.

You had ownership thinking signing two players (no matter whom) to contracts where they spend 'some' money is something that would get fans excited.  Around here that wasnt the case from the start.

Blame Kim yes, she should have been more aggressive.  

But looking at it from hindsight...

Aside from Bryan Reynolds, do you want any of the jokers the fans on here were clamoring for though? 

 

That said unless Bruce Sherman stops being worse than Jeff Loria in terms of spending money, it really doesnt matter what Kim Ng does.  It would take her another 4-5 years to get to where the Rays are now (remember they were god awful for a stretch before this recent time of 'being the Rays'.).  It takes a while to build a farm system basically from the foundation up which is where the Marlins were before this regime took over. 

They need to overhaul some things, primarily in their hitting development systems, but if they are going to be a draft and develop team, they are at least on the right path.

Again Bruce Sherman refusing to acutally spend money except when for optics (Soler) leads to bad bad results.  

21 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Aside from Bryan Reynolds, do you want any of the jokers the fans on here were clamoring for though? 

I don't want Laureano. Not sure who else was mentioned.

1 minute ago, SonOfJack said:

I don't want Laureano. Not sure who else was mentioned.

Brandon Marsh was also mentioned

Bryan Reynolds (we discussed him)

6 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

Brandon Marsh was also mentioned

Bryan Reynolds (we discussed him)

Reynolds I wanted and still want. Marsh meh.

Cedric Mullins also.  But he has been a bit disappointing this year, still far better than what the Marlins are throwing out there, but not sure I'd have given the price that was rumored to grab him.

 

39 minutes ago, Das Texan said:

You have to look at things individually.

The Marlins going into this season with the roster they did was criminal.  Mostly because fans saw (righfully) as this team only a piece or two away.

You had ownership thinking signing two players (no matter whom) to contracts where they spend 'some' money is something that would get fans excited.  Around here that wasnt the case from the start.

Blame Kim yes, she should have been more aggressive.  

But looking at it from hindsight...

Aside from Bryan Reynolds, do you want any of the jokers the fans on here were clamoring for though? 

 

That said unless Bruce Sherman stops being worse than Jeff Loria in terms of spending money, it really doesnt matter what Kim Ng does.  It would take her another 4-5 years to get to where the Rays are now (remember they were god awful for a stretch before this recent time of 'being the Rays'.).  It takes a while to build a farm system basically from the foundation up which is where the Marlins were before this regime took over. 

They need to overhaul some things, primarily in their hitting development systems, but if they are going to be a draft and develop team, they are at least on the right path.

Again Bruce Sherman refusing to acutally spend money except when for optics (Soler) leads to bad bad results.  

Guys like A. Hayes, Laureano, Mullins, Ketel (pre-contract), A. Hicks in a salary dump, and others would have also worked out to add to Reynolds. Marsh also does have 1 WAR (even with the 36% whiff rate), so he wouldn't have been a total disaster and at 24, the sky is still the limit. Of course if Pablo was what was needed to be traded for him, that would hurt absolutely. Keirmaier was also Keirmaier until he got hurt. He could have been had for free to eat the payroll. All of these are big upgrades if the price was right. All of them.

Criminal is the right word for not getting a CF, but I will say Sanchez has shown much better defense than anticipated. But they still need one desperately. 

And yes, the core problem is Bruce not spending money. A bunch of Kim decisions have fallen flat, but she also is never going to win at sub $80m payrolls.

22 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

 

Criminal is the right word for not getting a CF, but I will say Sanchez has shown much better defense than anticipated.

 

You only say this because you don't actually watch the games this year.  Defensive metrics are much more questioned than other measures of success for offensive stats. He's been awful in CF.

7 minutes ago, hovertical said:

You only say this because you don't actually watch the games this year.  Defensive metrics are much more questioned than other measures of success for offensive stats. He's been awful in CF.

I'll trust professional evaluators over your (and any of our) eye balls 100% of the time. It's easy to be an armchair GM. Fans remember the bad or fantastic looking plays, and ignore the mundane outs are the ones that show your value. Like how Jeter won many gold gloves but was not an elite fielder most of his career.  You know, let's believe in experts, data, and science and not just be subjective to one's feelings and annoyances which is why we're in a load of trouble across the board as a society right now, etc. etc.

Regardless he is average at best in CF and the bat is skeptical, and Bleday is also not likely an every day CF, so the end result on any level of analysis whether you want to believe the experts or not is get a long-term CF.

5 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I'll trust professional evaluators over your (and any of our) eye balls 100% of the time.

Sanchez has taken some god awful routes and in Rogers' last start before the all-star break [I believe it was] ended up costing him two runs at least due to these routes.

First one he stopped well short of where he could have gone and probably could have caught the ball. Next one was a ball off the wall that he turned around on about five times then misplayed off the wall then started laughing after despite the fact that two runs scored.

He's been AWFUL in center, with some flashes of good play here and there.

6 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

not just be subjective to one's feelings and annoyances which is why we're in a load of trouble across the board as a society right now, etc. etc.

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

And since you don't watch the games and only trust numbers, here's one for you.

That sucks.

11 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I'll trust professional evaluators over your (and any of our) eye balls 100% of the time. It's easy to be an armchair GM. Fans remember the bad or fantastic looking plays, and ignore the mundane outs are the ones that show your value. Like how Jeter won many gold gloves but was not an elite fielder most of his career.  You know, let's believe in experts, data, and science and not just be subjective to one's feelings and annoyances which is why we're in a load of trouble across the board as a society right now, etc. etc.

Regardless he is average at best in CF and the bat is skeptical, and Bleday is also not likely an every day CF, so the end result on any level of analysis whether you want to believe the experts or not is get a long-term CF.

When you can recall literally double digit amounts of awful plays off the top of your head but literally cant remember a single fantastic play. Yeah, dude is below average. And if you can recall that many awful plays that means there are many more you likely can't recall or didn't see because you didn't catch that particular game. I guess I just had bad luck and missed all his great games. Darn.

2 minutes ago, hovertical said:

When you can recall literally double digit amounts of awful plays off the top of your head but literally cant remember a single fantastic play. Yeah, dude is below average. And if you can recall that many awful plays that means there are many more you likely can't recall or didn't see because you didn't catch that particular game. I guess I just had bad luck and missed all his great games. Darn.

He did hit that one silly long homer though.

12 minutes ago, Michael said:

And since you don't watch the games and only trust numbers, here's one for you.

That sucks.

I agree he is lacking offensively?

What are you talking about or your point? Because I literally agree and what's the point?

16 minutes ago, Michael said:

Sanchez has taken some god awful routes and in Rogers' last start before the all-star break [I believe it was] ended up costing him two runs at least due to these routes.

First one he stopped well short of where he could have gone and probably could have caught the ball. Next one was a ball off the wall that he turned around on about five times then misplayed off the wall then started laughing after despite the fact that two runs scored.

He's been AWFUL in center, with some flashes of good play here and there.

You're also proving my point, you remember the bad ones.

Is the position you three know more than professional scouting services?

8 minutes ago, hovertical said:

When you can recall literally double digit amounts of awful plays off the top of your head but literally cant remember a single fantastic play. Yeah, dude is below average. And if you can recall that many awful plays that means there are many more you likely can't recall or didn't see because you didn't catch that particular game. I guess I just had bad luck and missed all his great games. Darn.

So you admit you've missed many games, unlike professionals who collect data on all of them?

20 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

Regardless he is average at best in CF and the bat is skeptical, and Bleday is also not likely an every day CF, so the end result on any level of analysis whether you want to believe the experts or not is get a long-term CF.

Agree to disagree on Sanchez.  He wasnt a CF going into the 2022 season and nothing he has shown has changed that tbh.   I dont care what any analytical numbers say (none are really seen as gospel and thats part of the problem with them at this point), the eyeballs tell a different story.  You cant SOLELY rely upon analytical stats, baseball isnt actually played on a simulator, well except for OOTP these days.  You have to meld both the eyeballs with the statistical models, especially on defense because the models are still lacking in some areas.  The models show him basically as an average CF.  The eye balls say he is far below average CF.  meld the two together and he is probably a slightly below to below average CF.  

Bleday is a decent stop gap in CF and might as well throw him out there for the rest of this season because you have nobody else and you want to see what you have, but sooner or later, he needs to move to a corner.  

On the last part 100% agree.  Marlins still have no long term CF anywhere in their organization from AA and above that you would see as a long term piece to roam CF in loan depot field or whatever its called.