5 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

Same. I haven't seen that.

I am glad they kept Pablo if a good offer didn't present itself. I am not happy they did basically nothing else, which was reminiscent of the off-season.

I would like to say I'm not counting @taiwanmarlinin my statement because he can be a bit bipolar at times so he may have said something.

1 hour ago, hovertical said:

Except for the the part we're all somehow angry Pablo wasn't traded. We're angry that out of all the parts that could have and should have been sent into space and likely received offers - nothing else happened. I literally don't think a single person is angry Pablo wasn't traded - unless I missed somewhere.

What were the offers?

1 hour ago, SonOfJack said:

Same. I haven't seen that.

I am glad they kept Pablo if a good offer didn't present itself. I am not happy they did basically nothing else, which was reminiscent of the off-season.

Everyone has control so the only frustration is timing. But yes if they do nothing major, it's the same offseason. Where is the CF? Are they going to roster Lewin, Cooper, and Soler and effectively have the triple 1B/DH redundancy AGAIN (this is a fear for me). etc etc. Endless cycle comments. I also read this and other threads as people are extremely upset but is what is is. I maintain the anger should be 90% directed at Bruce.

@Das Texan 

 

3 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

I maintain the anger should be 90% directed at Bruce.

He is partly responsible but I'd say 90 is a bit high. Kim Ng deserves more blame than she gets from some people.

Just now, pollythewog said:

@Das Texan 

 

11 minutes ago, SonOfJack said:

He is partly responsible but I'd say 90 is a bit high. Kim Ng deserves more blame than she gets from some people.

We can reasonably disagree on percentage of Bruce blame. Kim is certainly # 2 in this hierarchy of suck for lack of CF, Soler/Aguilar/Cooper redundancy, Garcia contract, etc., but I do know her max percentage is 49% as trying to field a contender for $75m is insane. Das said this best - anything lower than $110m is criminal with what they get before the gate and tv deals.

10 hours ago, taiwanmarlin said:

All the fans to boycott this team, don't buy the merchandise and tickets, it's only what FANS can do to a irresponsible regime. 

I haven't bought a thing this year, and don't plan on it.

 

5 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

Man I didn't read this thread last night and the takes are really bad and emotional here because of frustration. The sky isn't falling because Pablo wasn't traded. Jesus.

This is the best take here - No point in trading Pablo Lopez just to trade Pablo Lopez tbh.

If there was not a deal it's a no deal. He has 2 years of control. Castillo/Berrios got great packages with less control Pablo will have this offseason. It's not like he has no value. You're ignoring Castillo/Berrios trades if you think there is a problem here. He is still a top 50-75 or so asset in MLB right now. If they keep him, great. He's great. If they move him in the offseason for bats, great assuming the package is good. Some major perspective was needed. The deadline is not the only bite at the apple.

As for the rest

Aguilar sucks. He'll be on revocable waivers and moved for a guy we've never heard of in August.

Cooper, Berti, and Anderson... their injuries likely impacted their ability to be moved. But, they can also do it in the offseason or maybe keep 1-2 of them. To note, I am wondering if the reason to keep Cooper is also lower confidence in Lewin that he can't cut it. They don't have much else besides Berry for a system 1B so Cooper may actually be a NEED. I think I'd roll the dice with Lewin and go for a June upgrade next year if needed, but we'll see what happens here.

So then we get to Wendle/Rojas. It seems like they too will get lopped into the group above. I can't imagine they open camp with all of Berti/Anderson/Wendle/Rojas as Luke Williams seems like a totally fine backup and Groshans will likely come up next year 1-3 months into the season, but maybe the hesitation is injuries with the knowledge that everyone has CONTROL and they'll likely get the same deal in the offseason. These guys aren't world beaters.

So then we get to Soler and Garcia and no one is taking those contracts

And then finally, Floro/Scott/Okert/Bleier/other RP. I was figuring they would trade 3-4 relievers and bank on the longterm view, but they ending up trading 2 instead. Considering Pop had the most control of the group, it kind of makes sense to keep the rest. These guys all have control in the offseason so they can move someone then. This is a little annoying as you'd imagine a slightly better prospect for a RP especially at the deadline, but at the end of the day do we care about a better FV40 prospect versus a normal FV40 prospect? That's the rub here. None of these guys are throwing like Bass/have Pop's control to get someone better.

Basically, some of you expecting this to be "fixed" overnight set yourself up with unrealistic expectations. We should frankly be happy relievers turned into Groshans and a DUMB move wasn't made. Groshans has zip projections for just over 300 PA in 23/24 at 1.2-1.6 WAR. That's a 2+ WAR projection over 500 PA, and if the power returns do the math. Good bet here.

The problem for me is - we are setting up for the same offseason. This is the definition of insanity. Where is the CF and are they going to buy/trade for at least 1 more major bat upgrade somewhere else? Have they learned anything and/or is Bruce going to let the FO do anything? These are the big questions IMO, but practically, they have till April 1st as this season is over.

 

 

I think we were all hoping for some sort of indication that they were going to change course and start moving forward rather than just standing pat, which they largely ended up doing.

 

4 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

Thanks, but the pity party is in misery loves company zone. 

However they are going to be right unless there are wholesale changes come this offseason. Minimum 2+ major bat upgrades. Yesterday was just not the line in the sand for that though.

The line in the sand was last year.  Otherwise, it's just repeating the same and shifting the line.

9 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

I think we were all hoping for some sort of indication that they were going to change course and start moving forward rather than just standing pat, which they largely ended up doing.

 

The line in the sand was last year.  Otherwise, it's just repeating the same and shifting the line.

But that's the point - standing pat may be the right decision (even if they caused the current situation). Do we know if Lewin can play? Two months of testing bullpen arms out? How are Garrett, Rogers, Luzardo, and Rogers ending the year? Is Groshans going to hit for power end of year? Is Fortes this for real?

The line in the sand for me is yes last offseason and failure to get a CF - remember I bailed on the team in MARCH. But practically, the real line in the sand is the "plant the flag move." It hasn't happened yet. So is that going to happen or endless cycle of hoping that happens and it does not. There is literally -0- reason to not plant the flag with a decision to keep Pablo so we'll see.

8 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

The line in the sand was last year.  Otherwise, it's just repeating the same and shifting the line.

+1 but some will continually find ways to excuse her

 

She's so low energy and slow with literally EVERYTHING.  When most people on this board can predict exactly what she'll do a week+ in advance of her finally getting around to doing it (and that's not even saying it's the correct move) that's one helluva shit GM.

She's been so awful as GM that she shouldn't even get a 3 year trial period simply because she's failed at even managing the roster they do have on a day-to-day basis through almost 2 seasons now.  That's basic stuff that anyone promoted to a GM role should be able to do in their sleep. 

If you can't help out the club with what players you have I don't know how the average person can expect you to improve the team via players you don't have.

 

 

2 hours ago, pollythewog said:

@Das Texan 

 

The rumored package it would have taken was stupid.

Especially given what the Nationals got back from the Padres.  I cant blame them for saying no.  I mean I'm being AJ Preller here, but its also organizational philosophy.  

*shrugs*  

I would have given anything from the system but Jordan Walker, and even then I'd have considered him, but not him PLUS Carlson PLUS Wynn PLUS Gorman which was the supposed ask. 

1 hour ago, MarlinsLou said:

But that's the point - standing pat may be the right decision (even if they caused the current situation). Do we know if Lewin can play? Two months of testing bullpen arms out? How are Garrett, Rogers, Luzardo, and Rogers ending the year? Is Groshans going to hit for power end of year? Is Fortes this for real?

The line in the sand for me is yes last offseason and failure to get a CF - remember I bailed on the team in MARCH. But practically, the real line in the sand is the "plant the flag move." It hasn't happened yet. So is that going to happen or endless cycle of hoping that happens and it does not. There is literally -0- reason to not plant the flag with a decision to keep Pablo so we'll see.

Sadly, I think the Garcia/Soler signings WERE their attempt at "planting the flag".

1 hour ago, hovertical said:

+1 but some will continually find ways to excuse her

 

She's so low energy and slow with literally EVERYTHING.  When most people on this board can predict exactly what she'll do a week+ in advance of her finally getting around to doing it (and that's not even saying it's the correct move) that's one helluva shit GM.

She's been so awful as GM that she shouldn't even get a 3 year trial period simply because she's failed at even managing the roster they do have on a day-to-day basis through almost 2 seasons now.  That's basic stuff that anyone promoted to a GM role should be able to do in their sleep. 

If you can't help out the club with what players you have I don't know how the average person can expect you to improve the team via players you don't have.

 

Anyone know how long her contract is?  3-5 years maybe?  I can't find anything on it.

3 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Sadly, I think the Garcia/Soler signings WERE their attempt at "planting the flag".

Anyone know how long her contract is?  3-5 years maybe?  I can't find anything on it.

She probably hasn't actually signed on the dotted line yet and that's why.

4 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Sadly, I think the Garcia/Soler signings WERE their attempt at "planting the flag".

Anyone know how long her contract is?  3-5 years maybe?  I can't find anything on it.

500,000 salary is all I see.

1 hour ago, Major-Minor said:

500,000 salary is all I see.

So THAT'S why she was hired.

Hill was at like $2M or $3M. Something nutty.

5 minutes ago, Michael said:

So THAT'S why she was hired.

Hill was at like $2M or $3M. Something nutty.

Oof. That's actually insulting to her.

1 minute ago, Major-Minor said:

Oof. That's actually insulting to her.

Now I kinda want to know her salary compared to all GMs across baseball.

Is Bruce Sherman paying her less? We should file a discrimination lawsuit on her behalf and get him to sell.

14 minutes ago, Michael said:

Now I kinda want to know her salary compared to all GMs across baseball.

Is Bruce Sherman paying her less? We should file a discrimination lawsuit on her behalf and get him to sell.

From 2014 

Most general managers earn between $500,000 and $2 million annually, major league sources say.

Only a few -- notably, the Yankees' Brian Cashman, Red Sox's Theo Epstein and Tigers' Dave Dombrowski -- are believed to make more than $2 million.

None is thought to make above $3 million, though the A's Billy Beane and Diamondbacks' Josh Byrnes maintain small ownership stakes in their respective franchises, and Cashman, as a senior Yankees executive, participates in a potentially lucrative stock-option program, sources say.

20 minutes ago, Major-Minor said:

Oof. That's actually insulting to her.

eh...he got what he paid for

1 hour ago, Michael said:

Now I kinda want to know her salary compared to all GMs across baseball.

Is Bruce Sherman paying her less? We should file a discrimination lawsuit on her behalf and get him to sell.

Expert level chicanery.

10 hours ago, MarlinsLou said:

What were the offers?

Apparently there were none as she came on tv and literally said she didn't call anyone and waited around for people to call her. Explains so much.

She’s trolling this blog imo

23 minutes ago, hovertical said:

Apparently there were none as she came on tv and literally said she didn't call anyone and waited around for people to call her. Explains so much.

Everyone has control besides Aguilar (and he sucks). There really isn't a rush here. Are we losing sleep not getting two FV40 prospects who would rank somewhere in Marlins top 18-25 guys for Okert and Floro? Who they may have already decided we are going to keep? Perspective. It's all going to happen in the offseason. Whatever it is they do or don't do.

2 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

Everyone has control besides Aguilar (and he sucks). There really isn't a rush here. Are we losing sleep not getting two FV40 prospects who would rank somewhere in Marlins top 18-25 guys for Okert and Floro? Who they may have already decided we are going to keep? Perspective. It's all going to happen in the offseason. Whatever it is they do or don't do.

They're already not doing, even admitted it.

Time to do it.

2 minutes ago, MarlinsLou said:

Everyone has control besides Aguilar (and he sucks). There really isn't a rush here. Are we losing sleep not getting two FV40 prospects who would rank somewhere in Marlins top 18-25 guys for Okert and Floro? Who they may have already decided we are going to keep? Perspective. It's all going to happen in the offseason. Whatever it is they do or don't do.

Cool so ignoring what Ng said entirely and moving the line yet again to cut her more slack.