rmc523 Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, pollythewog said: Leave the vegans alone you murderers! Plants have feelings too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Plants have feelings too. Then why are we allowed to pull the plug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, hovertical said: Then why are we allowed to pull the plug? Vegan isn't as "innocent" as its made out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 15 minutes ago, hovertical said: Then why are we allowed to pull the plug? OH GOD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollythewog Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 20 minutes ago, Michael said: OH GOD Pls ban him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 To each their own but... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, Das Texan said: To each their own but... I'm agreeing with you way too much today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 1 hour ago, pollythewog said: Pls ban him God or @hovertical? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 26 minutes ago, rmc523 said: God or @hovertical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystikol87 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 21 hours ago, Michael said: Ew. Vegan. Gross. [No I totally understand, much better for some!] I’m a big guy, and I like fried stuff. For me it’s about living in a way that’s as aligned as possibly with the world I hope to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, mystikol87 said: I’m a big guy, and I like fried stuff. For me it’s about living in a way that’s as aligned as possibly with the world I hope to see. So a world overrun by animals because we decided to not eat them anymore?! ... I mean Earth did pretty well before we were here so you may be on to something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystikol87 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 46 minutes ago, Michael said: So a world overrun by animals because we decided to not eat them anymore?! ... I mean Earth did pretty well before we were here so you may be on to something. Haha. Nah, those animals are bred for industry. Broadly speaking, it’s an anti-exploitation philosophy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Let's not worry about all the extra land we'd have to bulldoze/plow to make enough veggies 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 8 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Let's not worry about all the extra land we'd have to bulldoze/plow to make enough veggies But if you didn't have the cattle industry wouldn't that provide you the land right there? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, hovertical said: But if you didn't have the cattle industry wouldn't that provide you the land right there? Not sure if it's enough or not. Because the argument would also be "let's give some land back to the animals/nature!" in addition to wanting to eat just veggies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 The point is there's no perfect solution like everyone pretends. Same with windmills.....sounds great, except they just bury the blades in the ground because they can't be recycled. Or "save the planet" electric cars..........if you ignore the massive amount of strip mining needed to make the batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Anyway, GO HEAT! Game 2 tonight Series dates/times, all appear to be on TV on TNT: Wednesday, 5/17 (Away @ BOS) HEAT WIN 123-116 Friday, 5/19 @ 8:30pm (Away @ BOS) Sunday, 5/21 @ 8:30pm (Home) Tuesday, 5/23 @ 8:30 pm (Home) Thursday, 5/25 @ 8:30pm (Away @ BOS) Saturday, 5/27 @ 8:30pm (Home) Monday 5/29 @ 8:30pm (Away @ BOS) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, rmc523 said: Not sure if it's enough or not. Because the argument would also be "let's give some land back to the animals/nature!" in addition to wanting to eat just veggies... You could honestly do both with as much land as is required for cattle especially. And this is coming from someone who won't stop eating steaks anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 1 hour ago, mystikol87 said: Haha. Nah, those animals are bred for industry. Broadly speaking, it’s an anti-exploitation philosophy. Except EVERYTHING we consume is exploiting something on the Earth, be it animals, be it plants, be it land, be it natural resources... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Texan Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: The point is there's no perfect solution like everyone pretends. Same with windmills.....sounds great, except they just bury the blades in the ground because they can't be recycled. Or "save the planet" electric cars..........if you ignore the massive amount of strip mining needed to make the batteries. not to mention that with windmills, they need to be lubricated with... oil Energy needs a broad mix especially in homes. But this whole morality thing of wind/soler especially being all friendly on the Earth is a bit of a pollyanna argument. They require lots of land to generate the energy. They require fossil fuels to manufacure them and to provide maintenance on them. Plus when you look at lithium mining, thats fucking BAD on the environment, PLUS many of those strip mines are never restored to what they were post mining. As an aside, uranium mining is the same in terms of how harmful on the actual Earth it is during the mining process. So yes a mix - good. This concept of renewables being this holier thing than fossil fuels...not entirely true. I'll also say this on electric cars.... a lot of the electricity needed to power them come from fossil fuels in some fashion in their generation. My sister has one, snazzy. Not for me. Not when I travel so much to remote places. Great in cities, not so great when you look at travel. I'm not sure if that can ever truly be rectified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollythewog Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 2 hours ago, rmc523 said: Not sure if it's enough or not. Because the argument would also be "let's give some land back to the animals/nature!" in addition to wanting to eat just veggies... “If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million,” David Pimentel, professor of ecology in Cornell University’s College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, reported at the July 24-26 meeting of the Canadian Society of Animal Science in Montreal. Or, if those grains were exported, it would boost the U.S. trade balance by $80 billion a year, Pimentel estimated.“ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovertical Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 In regard to electric vehicles there's been some reports published out there showing how many miles it takes for the car to be driven to offset the environmental costs of the battery material mining, cost of fossil fuels to provide the electricity at the charging stations and even the fossil fuel cost on the general manufacturing and shipping costs to get the vehicle into your hands. I want to say it's estimated the vehicle needs to be operated for around 40k miles before there's a return on investment for the environment. It's not a perfect solution but it's also better than sitting around on your hands and saying "oh well, we'll just keep using oil and it's derivatives". Continually improving efficiency across the board with all fuel sources as a unified approach while alternately exploring how to better harvest "unlimited" resources like wind and solar is the only way forward. Currently my wife wants an electric vehicle to replace our old car but charging stations just aren't convenient enough and widespread enough for me to agree to going electric just yet. It's still better to continue actually trying to improve things with alternate energy sources versus just being obstinate and saying "oh well I'm just going to keep doing the same shit and ignore the house fire around me" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 1 hour ago, pollythewog said: “If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million,” David Pimentel, professor of ecology in Cornell University’s College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, reported at the July 24-26 meeting of the Canadian Society of Animal Science in Montreal. Or, if those grains were exported, it would boost the U.S. trade balance by $80 billion a year, Pimentel estimated.“ Or just let those who want to eat meat eat it, and others can eat only veggies if they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 1 hour ago, hovertical said: In regard to electric vehicles there's been some reports published out there showing how many miles it takes for the car to be driven to offset the environmental costs of the battery material mining, cost of fossil fuels to provide the electricity at the charging stations and even the fossil fuel cost on the general manufacturing and shipping costs to get the vehicle into your hands. I want to say it's estimated the vehicle needs to be operated for around 40k miles before there's a return on investment for the environment. It's not a perfect solution but it's also better than sitting around on your hands and saying "oh well, we'll just keep using oil and it's derivatives". Continually improving efficiency across the board with all fuel sources as a unified approach while alternately exploring how to better harvest "unlimited" resources like wind and solar is the only way forward. Currently my wife wants an electric vehicle to replace our old car but charging stations just aren't convenient enough and widespread enough for me to agree to going electric just yet. It's still better to continue actually trying to improve things with alternate energy sources versus just being obstinate and saying "oh well I'm just going to keep doing the same shit and ignore the house fire around me" I have 0 problem with recycling, using renewable sources of power, etc. I love the idea of using natural/renewable sources, reusing things, etc. What I have a problem with is everyone being force fed options that don't fit their needs because "environment"....for instance the upcoming bans on internal combustion vehicles in places like California and Europe in the next 10-15 years. And on a more global scale, we're severely limiting ourselves because of "environment".....meanwhile adversaries like China continue heavily polluting.....and worse, control most of the minerals needed to make these electric vehicles. And now the morons are talking about making our tanks EVs.........."hey mr. enemy, please stop the battle for 24 hours, my tank ran out of batteries! Thanks!!" Let the technology evolve and let people adopt these things on their own timelines......if they're so good, people will naturally transition to them without being forced. That's all I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 On a side note, maybe a Mod can pull these comments out of the heat thread and start an......"environmental debate" thread? I feel like its a good debate happening, but obviously nothing to do with the Heat.....unless I want to goofy tie it into global warming lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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