SoFlaFish

I'm the biggest Marlin's fan in South Florida, so you are probably as ignorant as your comments. After winning a World Series and you can't get butts in the seats you have a marketing problem. No, you don't have a marketing problem, you have a populace that doesn't care. I can market the Rolls Royce of snowmobiles here in South Florida using cutting edge techniques, flashy ads, great promotions, but I won't sell any of them because the population doesn't need it, doesn't care for it, or flat out doesn't want it. What more could have been "marketed" in 2004 and 2005 that would have brought in 35,000 per game? The best "marketing" for a sports team is success on the field. The 2004 and 2005 teams were in the Wild Card hunt until September, but nobody cared. You claim I'm ignorant, but I've shown you that the best marketing to "non-rabid fans" is a winning product, and that product in 2004 and 2005 was a "winning" product. But since the general populace down here would rather complain about the heat, the traffic, the stadium, the team is not "good enough" (and by "good" I mean that if they're not 40 games over .500 they're not worth their time) or whatever other sad excuse (like not going to a game last year because of the 1997 fire sale), then what that says to me (and probably to Loria) is that no matter what you would have presented here to the "market" they were going to reject you. That's not a "marketing" problem, that's a "market" problem and going as far back is 1996 and 1997, this market has not responded to baseball. Therefore, why would ANY owner incur losses if no matter what he does, no matter who he brings in, the fans won't come in numbers to justify the expense. Huizenga found that out in 1997, Loria found it out in 2005, and I'm sure Owner X will find that out in 2010 in a retractable roof stadium somewhere in South Florida. If the market doesn't respond, then I'm not sure baseball will ever survive in South Florida. So put that in your pipe and smoke it! THANK YOU! This is our problem. There's really not an issue the die-hards will show up but honestly, it's hell to sit in that park. Especially those 1:00 games. Not that getting carried out for medical attention ISN'T a fun thing to pay good money to do. It's not a good experience. It's nothing to do with the team, it's the park. You guys are looking at this from die-hard fan perspective on why it's ridiculous people aren't showing up - the casual fans will NOT spend money to be rained on, sun-burned, and pass out. It's expensive for a family to go to a game, despite whatever tickets prices may be in other markets. I know fans down here are lazy and IN GENERAL are not the best, but I don't think we're being given a fair chance. Teams cannot survive on die-hards solely and someone who isn't a die-hard is not going to pay good money to sit through crap conditions. It's not just the stadium. I would put a handsome wager that if this team were to get a new retractable roof stadium in, let's say for argument's sake next to Dolphins Stadium, and the year is 2012 and we're in August and they're 5 games under .500 and/or 7.5 games back of the Phillies, or Mets, or Nats, or Braves, you're going to see 15,000 people at the game. Why? Because this populace will only go to an "event." And, the casual fan will still say the traffic is bad, the parking is bad, the ticket is too expensive. The problem is South Florida is not the stadium, it's the apathetic population. Perhaps it's time to come to the realization that the South Florida general population doesn't care for baseball. C'mon, only 10,000 show up for a Panthers game! If the Heat are 10 games under .500 you have 14,000 or less at the AAA. This season, while "sold" tickets may say otherwise, there are around 55,000 people at Dolphins games. For heaven's sake 37,000 showed up for a key ACC match-up between UM and UVa! Apathy is the problem down here. It was cheaper for me to take my daughter to a Marlins game than it is for me to take her to the movies! But if most people don't care for baseball, they just won't show up.

Samson is a dick! The Marlins can be a profit center, the team has been market poorly since winning the World Series in '03 and the "Marlin experience" is pure hell to the potential fan. Too hot, rain, underachieving team with complaining bitches like A.J.. If and that is a big IF Loria would sell this team he and we had ownership that actually didn't cry when they lose a few bucks and we got ourselves a nice retractible roof baseball only stadium. ALL THOSE IF's but you would easily get 30k plus on an avg. Samson is a dick! "Marketed poorly since 2003"? What more did you want?? Geez, I don't know, that big f**kin' trophy after winning the World Series wasn't a pretty good reason to go to the park?!? Those two f**kin' parades through South Florida after winning the whole damn thing wasn't enough to bring you to the park?!?!? What, Willis, Delgado, Cabrera, Castillo, LoDuca, Beckett and Lowell wasn't enough to bring you to the park in 2004 and 2005?!?!? What, do you want a member of the front office to drive you to the stadium and stand over you with an umbrella so that your poor little self doesn't get wet or too much sun?!?! Your statement is the reason why baseball has failed in South Florida. You want to be "marketed" but have no idea what you're talking about! Unless someone is spoonfeeding you, you're just going to sit back and say, "it's too hot," "there's too much traffic," "the team isn't 45 games over .500," etc., etc., etc.! This team WAS marketed in 2004 and 2005. There were billboards up and down I-95 and the Turnpike in 2004 and 2005! What, you didn't see them? There were radio ads and television ads. What, you didn't hear them? The team was in Wild Card contention in late September both in 2004 and 2005. What, you didn't read the sports section or watch ESPN? I'll be looking forward this year not having to share the stadium with your "type", since I love to actually watch a game without having some idiot like you and your ilk having to go to the bathroom or get their 52nd beer in the middle of a 2-1 count in the middle of the f**kin' inning!

Never say never. Things could change. Yeah, over 30 to 40 years from now when I'll be taking my grandchildren to a Marlins/Manatees/Tarpon/Sun Sox game!

The area keeps growing. We will have nearly 6 million people in Broward, Palm Beach, and Dade counties within 10 years. Hard to stay away from a market that big. Why not? MLB stayed away from Washington, DC for 34 years, and believe me this isn't the DC market. We may have the numbers, but South Florida does not have the $$$$ that the DC market has in terms of income. If baseball leaves here (and I don't think it will at all), it will NEVER come back!

I'm looking on the bright side, there's going to be plenty of "legroom" and walking room at Spring Training this year. It'll be a great place to take my kids this year.

If I hear one more person blame the fans, I'm going to scream. Does it make sense to anyone else why a team that has such apathy and ill-will around it would degrade its fans and its stadium at every chance it got? Would you readily give money to someone who told you that you were the root of everything that went wrong over the past two years, and would you pay to sit in a ballpark that its own tenant calls substandard? Firstly, Loria knew damn well what he was getting himself into, don't write checks you can't afford. The fans didn't hand out the $52 million to Delgado, Loria did, same with the Lowell and LoDuca and Castillo deals which the franchise apparently can't afford. Did the low attendance hurt? Sure, but at the same time, it isn't as if the apathetic fan-base came out of nowhere...it's irresponsible to assume that overnight the bridges that were burned by the first firesale, threats of contraction and the stigma of being a Marlins fan would be corrected instantly by one free agent signing. When's the last time you ever heard a business where the venue and the consumer were to blame for a business poorly run by individuals with no ability to look a mere year into the future and realize they'll be on the hook for more money than they can realistically afford because of contracts they negotiated? Sure sounds like the fans' fault that basic addition is something seriously lacking from Beinfest's "creative" ability. Every time I complain about the front office (love the team, hate the organization) I'm always told "what, two world series titles isn't good enough for you?" Yeah, sure, but two firesales is too much for me, or for any other fan, to have to put up with. This is classic ignorant rabble. Okay, so now you complain that Loria knew what he was getting into when he got the team and that his signing of those deals was the problem. But if we were to go back in time to 2002 and if Loria would have kept the team's payroll at $30M in 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 you'd be complaining that this team will never compete and nobody comes to the games because the team isn't putting an effort to win. So what is it with you? I'm sorry, but NUMBERS DO NOT LIE. It is a quid pro quo a business owner puts forth a product with the expectation that the consumer will come for the product. The product was shown to be successful (winning seasons in 2003, 2004, 2005), but the consumer decided for his own reasons not to come, not to respond. Well, what choice does the business owner have then? Keep throwing money away to a consumer that just doesn't care, or cut back and operate the business to reflect the market, which in this area means fans that will find any excuse on earth not to go to the game. I'm sorry, but 1997 was eight years ago! In the interim there have been two other owners, a world championship, and three winning seasons. If you're going to use the excuse that the fire sale killed off the fan base, then this fan base is pathetic, because there have been fire sales in San Diego (remember Sheffield, McGriff, etc.), Anaheim, Cleveland, and Seattle. However, those markets got new stadiums and attendance increases. Face the facts, this market is not a baseball market because people use up all their energy in finding excuses to not go. PERIOD. As for the other assertions on this board, Broward will NOT fund another public stadium/arena because of the boondoggle that the [iNSERT THIS WEEK'S ARENA NAME HERE] Center has become. I was there, in person, when Broward Commissioners Lieberman and former commissioner Parrish (now the Property Appraiser) explained this to the Plantation City Council. Palm Beach County is not as rich as you think it is (I'm a resident of here!). CityPlace is still being debated whether it was a success or not. The City/County has not put a red cent on any opera house (trust me, that issue is being litigated because I was the one that prepared the Complaint in Circuit Court!), and the County is so knee deep in Scripps problems right now that there is NO WAY they can invest another $300+ million on a stadium that will probably be less than 40% full in 2012 because the Marlins may be below .500. Just look at the Panthers situation. The arena was built where the fanbase "allegedly" was. Well, that fan base doesn't attend a game unless the team is in first place. I'm disgusted with this whole thing, trust me. But there is enough blame to go around and while the people here (and there aren't enough of you to make a difference with your money, which is what the team needs) may be passionate fan. The vast majority of people who don't read this site, or post here, just care enough about baseball to save this team. Baseball was an event in 1993, then it tailed off and just resurfaced during the playoff runs in 1997 and 2003. That's it. My guess is this team ends up in Charlotte because that is the only market that baseball has not been able to exploit.

Do you want to blame anybody? Just look in the mirror for who to blame! That's right, this apethetic, excuse making fan base that either does not exist or does not care about baseball! If I were Loria I'd be doing the same exact thing. Imagine if I owned a baseball team that just won the World Series, and instead of repeating the mistakes of 1997, I actually bring the bulk of the team back for another run. In ANY OTHER FREAKIN' CITY in the major leagues, I would expect a boom in attendance. Instead, here in South Florida we see only 20,000 per game. And don't give me the bull$hit excuse of "our attendance went up xxx% since we were so low to begin with." BULLCRAP!! Any other "MAJOR LEAGUE CITY" would have seen at least 28,000 on a Wednesday night game against the Brewers after winning a World Championship and a consistent 40,000 on any weeked game. But no, I remember being there on Saturday nights in 2004 and getting "excited" because 25,000 showed up for a game against the Padres, then you read the box scores the next day in the newspapers and see every other city (except for Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Tampa Bay) have 38,000 and more at their Saturday games. For the sake of comparison, let's look at the Los Angeles/California/Anaheim/Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Here is a team that went through their own version of a "fire sale" in the early 1990s. I remember when they went to a youth movement with the likes of Tim Salmon and Jim Edmonds, and J.T. Snow. Their market is comparable to ours (especially when you factor in that the Dodgers take a majority of the market share). Orange County is a commuter county with no mass transit and the stadium is NOT located in a downtown area (as a matter of fact, there is no downtown Orange County). In 2001, the Angels averaged 24,702 per game and ranked 20th in the major leagues (barely hitting 2,000,000). In 2002, they make their run at a world championship and their attendance rises to an average of 28,463 per game (2,305,547 total fans). In 2003, in their post World Series haze the Angels spike up to average 37,791 per game (3,061,094) almost matching the Dodgers in attendance! All this while the team was for sale and there was an uncertainty about the product (remember, Arte Moreno didn't come in until midway through the 2003 season). Further, the Angels were not a playoff team in 2003. Along comes 2004 for the Angels, and what do we see attendance wise: an average of 41,675 per game (3,375,677 total -- to trail ONLY the Yankees and Dodgers). Finally, this past season, the Angels averaged 42,033 per game (3,404,686 total -- trailing ONLY the Yankees, Dodgers, and Cardinals). So in this small timeframe, the Angels went from averaging 24,702 a game to 42,033 per game, almost doubling attendance in sheer numbers. They do this in a crappy stadium, that is accessible only by freeway (I've been to Angels Field, the surrounding area is quite similar to Dolphins Stadium, and driving in LA/OC is just as bad, if not worse, than driving in South Florida), in a metropolitan area that is similar if not identical to South Florida! What does that say about baseball down here? Simple, we don't have the interest in averaging 42,000 per game, PERIOD! If I were Loria and I just won a World Series where 70,000 show up for a game, then I would expect at least 35,000 to 36,000 average the next season! So if I spend all this money and only get 17,000 to 20,000 to come to a game, what's the point in money away. Might as well save some money and cater to the 3,000 total hardcore baseball fans in town, or move to a city that will get me 35,000 a night. I'll still go to games next year because you can count me in as one of the 3,000 hardcore fans that support this team with my wallet. I'll enjoy the leg room and shoulder room at the stadium next year. I'll enjoy being able to stroll through an empty Fan Fest this year. I'll enjoy seeing the young kids develop because I love baseball!!! Unfortunately, there just isn't enough of people like me here to support baseball. So, in two years when the "Charlotte Knights" are born, I won't be shocked or surprised, I'll just see it as the inevitable result of an apathetic fan base. Just bringin' the facts...

Do you want to blame anybody? Just look in the mirror for who to blame! That's right, this apethetic, excuse making fan base that either does not exist or does not care about baseball! If I were Loria I'd be doing the same exact thing. Imagine if I owned a baseball team that just won the World Series, and instead of repeating the mistakes of 1997, I actually bring the bulk of the team back for another run. In ANY OTHER FREAKIN' CITY in the major leagues, I would expect a boom in attendance. Instead, here in South Florida we see only 20,000 per game. And don't give me the bull$hit excuse of "our attendance went up xxx% since we were so low to begin with." BULLCRAP!! Any other "MAJOR LEAGUE CITY" would have seen at least 23,000 on a Wednesday night game against the Brewers and a consistent 35,000 and over on any weeked game. Just compare the attendance figures in the boxscores everyday and you'll see how pathetic things are. For the sake of comparison, let's look at the Los Angeles/California/Anaheim/Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Here is a team that went through their own version of a "fire sale" in the early 1990s. I remember when they went to a youth movement with the likes of Salmon, Edmonds, and the like. Their market is comparable to ours (especially when you factor in that the Dodgers take a majority of the market share). Orange County is a commuter county with no mass transit and the stadium is NOT located in a downtown area (as a matter of fact, there is no downtown Orange County). In 2001, the Angels averaged 24,702 per game, ranked 20th in the major leagues (barely hitting 2,000,000). In 2002, they make their run at a world championship, and their attendance rises to an average of 28,463 per game (2,305,547 total fans). In 2003, in their post World Series haze the Angels spike up to average 37,791 per game (3,061,094) almost matching the Dodgers in attendance! All this while the team was for sale and there was an uncertainty about the product (remember, Arte Moreno didn't come in until midway through the 2003 season). Further, the Angels were not a playoff team in 2003. Along comes 2004 for the Angels, and what do we see attendance wise: an average of 41,675 per game (3,375,677 total -- to trail ONLY the Yankees and Dodgers). Finally, this past season, the Angels averaged 42,033 per game (3,404,686 total). So in this small timeframe, the Angels went from averaging 24,702 a game to 42,033 per game, almost doubling attendance in sheer numbers. They do this in a crappy stadium, that is accessible only by freeway (I've been to Angels Field, the surrounding area is quite similar to Dolphins Stadium, and driving in LA/OC is just as bad, if not worse, than driving in South Florida), in a metropolitan area that is similar if not identical to South Florida! What does that say about baseball down here? Simple, we don't have the interest in averaging 42,000 per game, PERIOD! If I were Loria and I just won a World Series where 70,000 show up for a game, then I would expect at least 35,000 to 36,000 average the next season! So if I spend all this money and only get 17,000 then 20,000 to a game, what's the point in running my business into the ground. Might as well save some money and cater to the 3,000 total hardcore baseball fans in town, or move to a city that will get me 35,000 a night. I'll still go to games next year because you can count me in as one of the 3,000 hardcore fans that support this team with my wallet. I'll enjoy the leg room and shoulder room at the stadium next year. I'll enjoy being able to stroll through an empty Fan Fest this year. I'll enjoy seeing the young kids develop because I love baseball!!! Unfortunately, there just isn't enough of people like me here to support baseball. So, in two years when the "Charlotte Knights" are born, I won't be shocked or surprised, I'll just see it as the inevitable result of an apathetic fan base. Just bringin' the facts...

*hands in the air* *looking at sky* What did we do to have yet another firesale? . . . . What did we do to deserve having the team leave? . . . . What did we do to deserve all this? . . . . What is it? . . . . The answer is quite simple my friend, the answer my friend is blowing in the wind . . .

What did they do? Hire one of those law firms? Without divulging too much information, yes, one of those law firms (actually, two of those firms one replaced the other) currently represents the Marlins, and as of just one week ago, they still do as they have been in contact with their attorneys. As I said, they've been represented since at least June 2004 when I was told of this. I know one of the attorneys very well (as in for almost 20 years).

That's what the franchise gets for penny-pinching. Hire professionals to do the job. Call Holland & Knight, Greenberg Traurig, Akermen Senterfitt, or any other top law firm and pay them the big bucks to do what Samson can't do. Do things the right way, not on the cheap. It costs more in the long run to be a penny-pincher when it comes to business deals. Little note: that had already been done as early as June 2004! I have a really good inside source (trust me on this), and from what he tells me, the FO entered these negotiations completely clueless.

Even though McNulty is a hack job who works for a bush league paper like The Stuart News (I've had my run-ins with the editors of that paper back in the day when I worked for the Martin County Board of County Commissioners), but his article is correct. The South Florida Fan Base sucks, no bones about it. They "support" the team as long as it doesn't cost them any money, as long as they don't have to drive more than 10 miles, as long as they don't have to be outside, etc. etc. etc. Do you see my point? The population in this metro area expends more energy complaining about things than actually doing things. And don't give me this crap about losing "half" the fan base here or there depending on where the stadium is built. If the team is not "guaranteed" a playoff birth NOBODY will go and they'll continue to average a pathetic 22,000 a game whether the stadium is in Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, Boynton Beach, Sunrise, Tamarac, Weston, Kendall, or Miami Gardens. Case in point, the Florida Panthers. They got their arena where their so-called fan base wanted it and they can't draw flies because they're not winning. So aside from this small little enclave of fans on this board, the rest of South Florida could care two-sh!ts about the Marlins. Face it, as much as I love the Marlins, this metropolitan area really doesn't deserve baseball.

I'm sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but there NEVER WAS A TEAL ALTERNATE JERSEY for the Marlins. The "teal jerseys" everyone sees were the early BP jerseys. The Marlins have NEVER worn teal jerseys on game day. The Marlins had the white home jerseys with teal pinstripes until 2003, with an alternate vest with teal undershirt until around 1995. In 1996, the teal undershirt was replaced with a black undershirt. There was NEVER a road alternate jersey for the Marlins until 2003. Go to this site (LINK) for a complete Marlins uniform history, and you'll see there is no such thing as an old TEAL ALTERNATE JERSEY.

Has it occurred to anybody that the model you see there is somebody's "Science Fair Project" and that the website linked is a forum for architects or architecture students to voice their "opinions." I could have my buddy who has his own architecture firm and is an architect slap up a balsa model of the stadium and submit it to that site.

Sure, I'll donate $100.00 for the right to then pay maybe $30.00 for an average ticket, $6.50 for a beer, and $5.50 for a cold hot dog. Yeah, that makes sense! If I'm giving $100.00 then I want something for it, not just the ability to pay even more money for things!

This is simply the stupidest threat I have seen here among many of the stupid threads there are on this board. 1. Adjusting the rotation so that one pitcher avoids starting in a certain city? I'm sorry, but Dontrelle Willis is a "big boy" that doesn't need to be coddled in order to improve his stats are psyche. You pitch on the day that you're handed the ball and that is that. If you use that logic to run a baseball team, I can already see the clamoring of starting pitchers begging to have their spot in the rotation adjusted so that they don't have to pitch at Coors Field or at Citizens Bank Park! 2. It wouldn't be baseball without trade rumors! Give me a break, like the Marlins are the only team that is affected by trade rumors. There have been trade rumors affecting every team in baseball for as long as I have been following baseball, which is before most of you here were just a thought inside your daddy's left testicle! Plus, its not as if the team was the one that was initiating the trade rumors. If you're going to place your misplaced "bitching" at anyone, look in the collective mirror of this board and every other media outlet in America, because that's where rumors originate and circulate. I'm sorry, but that is baseball. That is the beauty of baseball. If you can't hack it, then I don't know what to say!

Because all of south Florida will find an excuse TSwift. Not just Miami. All of South Florida. 872762[/snapback] Oh, everyone has excuses, but the vast majority of these gripes (as if Miami is the only city in the world that has to suffer through rain-delays) come from the very same "fan-base" that demands that the stadium be moved closer to them. Never mind that Palm Beach and Broward do compose the vast majority of season ticket sales... 872781[/snapback] What source do you have that the majority of the gripes come from "Miami" fans? Or are you just talking out of your a$$?

Just another hairbrained scheme from Commissioner Ferguson. Trust me, nothing should be made of this. I do significant amount of work with the City Commission of Boynton Beach and this is NOT a city sponsored plan or idea.

Just because Dade County will "own" the stadium doesn't automatically mean that it qualifies as a "public use." There can be enough to hang up a case in eminent domain litigation to challenge the "public use" aspect of this case that it's not a slam dunk.

Did any of you guys ACTUALLY READ THE OPINION OF THE COURT? Or did most of you gobble up the pablum that the press is writing? This ruling by the Supreme Court actually changes nothing. A more revolutionary holding would have been if they ruled in favor of the property owners in New London, CT. I know the eminent domain proceedings first hand as one of my clients is currently in a pitted condemnation battle with the City of Boynton Beach (See this article in the Sun-Sentinel regarding the case). Marwan and Radi Ghali, mentioned in the article, are my clients and I've been dealing with this for over a year. The ONLY thing that the Court upheld was the eminent domain proceedings when done pursuant to an approved development plan are a valid "public use." The Court SPECIFICALLY did not decide the issue of a single property being condemned in order to be sold to a third party developer. This case was the culmination of a long process of rulings that led to this. Read the opinion of the Court. Don't read the press reports about it because most of them are dead wrong!

Cape, Im tired of hearing you say, "the deal is done", Ive been hearing this for over a year...I enjoy your optimism, but enough, you have no facts its all made up... 807084[/snapback] They have the budget set on what they can spend. This issue right now is what will be cut from the proposed ballpark to meet the budget. The three sides are still trying to work that out. It is almost done, when you build a house you spend plenty of time selecting the floors, cabinets, colors, etc. Now they must decided whether to give up the proverbial bigger appliances or lower the type of flooring to just tile in some areas. When you are going to build a facility of such cost and importance you should expect them to take time to decide the final details. 807109[/snapback] Cape, dude I see politics in your future. :lol 807148[/snapback] YUP! All fluff, no substance.

It's probably too late now but how come the stadium can't be put in broward? It's the perfect location in between the 3 county area and there's probably a wider selection of land compared to the dump they want to put the stadium now and could have been a lot cheaper...The Orange Bowl? Honestly...way to drop the ball Broward. 789975[/snapback] It's not a question of the stadium being "put" in Broward, but more along the lines that Broward does not want the stadium. As I've stated before, I was at a meeting of the Plantation City Council attended by Commissioner Lieberman and former commissioner (now Property Appraiser) Parrish. Both of them flat out said that Broward County had no money to give for a stadium and that they were not going to go through the stadium experience again, especially after the "Rent-a-Center" fiasco/boondogle. Second, your assumption that there is a wider selection of land in Broward is erroneous. Third, did you ever see the potential Broward sites. Those were just as much of a "dump" as you consider the OB site (Broward Blvd. and I-95, Sunrise Blvd. and 441, downtown Ft. Lauderdale off of 3rd avenue and 6 street). Finally, land in Broward would be considerably more expensive than in Dade because you'd have to gather up privately owned parcels of land instead of City or County owned properties. That's why the selected site was the OB, because the City of Miami already owned the land and, hence, the City's "contribution" was LAND more than money.

Kotsay (he's one I wish we didn't trade away in the fire sale) 788833[/snapback] Kotsay didn't get traded in the fire sale, he was sent out in 2001 for Matt Clement. But to get back on point, favorite former Marlin: MATTIAS CARRILLO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who is John Brattain, and why does he even matter? OOOOH, his work has been featured on "hardballtimes.com", "Yankees.com", About.com, MLBtalk, Yankees.com, Replacement Level Yankee Weblog, TOTK.com, Bootleg Sports, and Baseball Prospectus. Big whoopdie-doo, that's as impressive as CapeFish's "blog."

We could get a relief pitcher from the Yankees or possibly Kevin Brown from the Yankees. 784493[/snapback] I don't know what was funnier, his wanting to trade Leiter, or wanting to trade Leiter for Kevin Brown? That's like trading herpes for genital warts!