SoFlaFish

Let's say by May 1st, no stadium deal goes through...think you could fill us in on this insider info you have by then? I don't know. My word is my bond with this guy. We've known each other for years and I would not divulge anything he tells me unless it's public record.

I caught part of Goldberg's show this afternoon, and he was blaming the Marlins for not getting a deal done. From what my source tells me, I've got to agree with Hank Goldberg. My source is shocked at how the Marlins are negotiating this and is convinced that they are not very bright when it comes to getting this stadium deal done.

DEAD SERIOUS!

I have a good source who is trying to broker a deal with the team. However, the Marlins are dragging their feet. I cannot tell you the site or the deal because it is bound by a confidentiality agreement, but it's the Marlins, not the local government, that are blowing this!

man the team may be on the road but i just cant wait till they get back so i can get my... PHOTOBALL? could someone tell me what that is? A BALL WITH A PHOTO ON IT Don't you remember the Photoballs that Chevron was selling in 1993?

"What's your prediction for the fight?" "My prediction? PAIN!"

I'll let you in on my "little secret weapon": MY THREE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER. Last year (when she was only 2 1/2 years old), she would stand by the railings in the Terrace Box section (visitors bullpen) and just waive "HI" to the players. They would come right up to her and give her a baseball. She managed to rack in about 6 baseballs last season from players like Jung Bong (ATL), Mike Williams (PHI), Adam Eaton (SD), Yorvit Torrealba (SF, at NLDS Game 3), Bobby Dewes (ATL bullpen coach), etc... The morale to the story is that most of the times, players will give a baseball to a little kid. Everytime they gave my daughter a ball, all the other kids and guys around would just leave in a huff of anger. It was quite funny. Most of the times, we weren't even asking for baseballs, but they would just walk up to my daughter and hand it to her. I always made sure that she would say "Thank You" to the English players and "Gracias" to the Latino players.

You know I think back now and this is the 3rd owner that has tried to get a stadium in Miami and still the city is resisting. I don't understand why in the hell Miami agreed to have a baseball team if they are not willing to build a ballpark. It makes no sense to me. I mean here we have a TEAM that has won 2 Championships in 10 years and has done more for Sports in SouthFLA than any other team in the the last 30 years. The city should be embrassing them with open arms. But hey this is Miami and if the politicians can't make a buck on something than it has no value to them. This is a prime example of why I have always hated politics and indicitive of the slime Miami produces. This is not a shot at all the people in Miami but let's face it, Miami produces some of the slimmiest politicians I have ever heard of. I get tired of reading all this stadium nonsense. I don't know that I could take another firesale, if it happens, basbeall may loose me and everyone else in SouthFLA. I hope Loria is smart enough to figure this out and do what's best for the team. I'm sorry, but you can't heap this all on the City of Miami. For starters, as Marlins2003 said, the City of Miami and Miami-Dade County are two separate entities. Secondly, back in 1991, the City of Miami was not the active party in leading the charge to bring baseball here. As a matter of fact, it was Huizenga's group "South Florida Baseball" that was the lead group and we all know that Huizenga hates everything to do with Dade County. The City of Miami is actually quite small and has a minimal tax base. The City's population is only around 370,000. Most of their property tax revenue is derived from it's only two "wealthy" neighborhoods (Brickell/Roads & Coconut Grove). The rest of Miami is the poorest city in the United States, so it is unreasonable to expect this City just to open its coffers for a baseball stadium. Also, I don't see Fort Lauderdale, Hollywood, Broward County, Plantation, or other cities stepping up to the plate. Are their politicians just as shady? The City of Fort Lauderdale right now is in just a dire strait financially as the City of Miami was a few years ago! Your comments were too generalized. Sometimes I'm convinced that discussing the economics of baseball on this message board is too complex for most of you here.

I am not totally sure about that. There is a $137M put up by the team, $73M put up by the County. That leaves $115M to bridge the gap. Naming rights could get you $40-60M, I believe. That leaves $75-55M left to finance. The Marlins are looking for that $60M rebate - which is broken down to $2M per year for 30 years. They possibly wont get it this year, but they could get it next year. So if anything, as it stands, private financing for the stadium would be very minimal at this point. That wont be as tough to overcome as the Giants situation would be. As far as I can tell anyway. Your making some wrong assumptions. That $137M that the Marlins are allegedly "putting up" is actually being taken out of the future revenues of the team. The team does not have $137M cash in hand. Naming rights would be included in that $137M, as would be suite revenue and other revenue streams of the team. Second, a private financing deal would only make sense if your investor sees a feasible return. Private financing would hamper the future revenues of the team. The reason why the lease terms are so onerous on Pro Player Stadium is because Huizenga, as the successor-in-interest to Joe Robbie, is still paying off the loans to build the place. I know that a lot of you here weren't even conceived when PPS was built, but Joe Robbie mortgaged everything to build that park. The Dolphins were used as collateral! All the money from the suites and club seats go to pay the debt for constructing that park. The reason the Dolphins don't cry poverty is because the NFL gives each team a nice fat check from their $2B TV deal, which pretty much covers all of the payroll (and that is helped with a salary cap in football -- that counters Cape Fish's earlier claim elsewhere that the NFL was the most "backwards run league"!). So with a large influx of cash from TV, the Dolphins don't need to make too much out of PPS. However, once the "mortgage" on PPS is paid off, the Dolphins seek to make a windfall off the park. If Loria were to do what Joe Robbie did, the team would still be strapped for cash. Instead of having limited revenue from PPS now, they would have to divert all revenue from the new park to pay for the debt service and the team would be in the same boat, but with a shiny new stadium. That's why a private-public partnership must be sought!

My Opening Day Pics: Josh Beckett doing long toss The view of Miguel Cabrera from my seats in RF Beckett's first pitch of the season

Minute Maid park was built for 250 mil why does the marlins stadium cost 325 mil. i'm sure they can build it in hialeah for 250 mil. The price differential is a simple thing called appreciation. Minute Maid was built over five years ago. While it cost $225M then, that doesn't mean it's $225M today. Just take the simple example of your house, if your house costs the same today as it did five years ago, you've got a major problem. I know that in the span of only 2 years, the value of my house has gone up 35 to 50%.

no the cubs don't play in pps until 2006 sorry HUH?!?!?!?!? :blink: :blink: :blink: The Cubs play the Marlins at Pro Player Stadium September 3-5, 2004!

* Gonzo followed up his measly 2003 numbers with a ho-hum spring (.250 with 8 RBI in 56 games) *1 for 4 with 2K and 1 LOB yesterday. Now, I know he's arguably one of the top 3 defensive SS in the NL and all that, but he creates a vast, gaping expanse of nothingness in the lineup with his little stick. He looks like a drunk 12 year old girl at the plate, and the Fish cannot afford offensively to carry his pathetic offensive performances this year. Cabs would look good at short with Nunez in right field. WOW! After one freakin' game we're already hearing the "move Cabrera to SS and put Nunez in RF". GEEZ, ONE FREAKIN' GAME!!! This ain't softball kids, you need defense. Plus, Abraham Nunez is not the answer in LF/RF. Here are a few names for you to look back on from spring's past: Brant Brown, Josh Booty, Rafael Medina, Brian Meadows, Ralph Millard. Each had amazing springs and then did bubkiss in the regular season. Spring is Spring. Also remember that Nunez hit a whopping .179 the last time he was up.

This is a request to all of you who plan on attending a game and sitting in Section 129. Please, please, please: LEAVE YOUR FREAKIN' CELL PHONES AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!! If I have to sit around five idiots who spend the entire f***ing game calling their buddies in the stadium and repeating over and over again, "Can you see me? I'm over here waving. Look at me. Dude, I'm standing! LOOK!" I swear to God, the next time the moron behind me was going to call his "buddy" I was going to chuck his cell phone onto the field, but then I was afraid Carl Everett was going to have another flash back to the time somebody threw a cell phone at him. Then again, maybe that's why a phone was thrown at him last season! So, please, LEAVE YOUR FREAKIN' CELL PHONES AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or at least stop being a f***ing prick and don't call your other idiot buddy during the second inning and missing the Choi HR!

Charlie Hough Jeff Conine Bret Barberie Darrell Whitmore You are aware that Darrell Whitmore was not on the 25 man roster on Opening Day 1993, right? The starting RF for the Marlins on that day was Junior "Adventures in Outfielding" Felix. Whitmore got called up later in the season after the Sheffield trade.

This may have just surpassed the "Trade Choi" thread as the most asenine thread here. Basically, somebody can't see the big picture: If the Marlins still had Ryan Snare, they would not have had Uggie Urbina. If the Marlins still had Gary Knotts, they would not have had Mark Redman If the Marlins still had Denny Bautista/Don Levinski, they would not have had Jeff Conine. You can't look at what the Marlins lost, without looking at what the team gained! Perhaps before you put something in a thread, think it over first!

I find this really funny. I remember when I lived in Sarasota almost 15 years ago how much I really hated the Tampa/St. Pete media market. It was a very "homer-istic" market that would fawn all over it's own teams. Then I see this today in The St. Petersburg Times: A buzz about the Rays? Who knew? By JOHN ROMANO, Times Sports Columnist Published April 1, 2004 ST. PETERSBURG - It was a miscalculation by the Devil Rays. A preposterously wonderful miscalculation. Somewhere past midnight, but a long while before dawn, the Rays discovered a quality long assumed missing. They discovered a passion for their team. Who would have thought to look here or to look now? In the early morning hours with the team on the other side of the world? Heaven knows, the Rays have conditioned themselves to expect the minimum when it comes to fan support. This is a strategy that, generally speaking, rarely leaves them surprised. So it was with modest expectations that they opened a single door to Tropicana Field at 4:30 a.m. Wednesday to invite fans in for a light breakfast and a TV broadcast of the Rays-Yankees game from Tokyo. What would you have guessed? A gathering of 100 hearty souls? A crowd on the cozy side of 200? The Rays anticipated 300 but, even so, were prepared to handle the unlikely appearance of 500. It wasn't even close. By the time team officials finished counting, nearly 2,000 people had shown up to pay $10 for a donut, a game ticket and a seat in front of a TV not so different from the sets they have at home. "If you're talking proportionate to the crowds at games," Tony Delgado of Tampa said, "I would have expected about six people." By 3:30 a.m., there were dozens of fans in line. By 4:30, the line stretched deep into the parking lot. By 5:15, with the game already on the air, Rays employees were scrambling to get everyone in the building. They tried to hook up the public address system outside but couldn't get it to work. So a Rays employee drove his car up to the crowd, opened the windows and doors and cranked up the radio so those still outside could hear the play-by-play. The Rays were woefully unprepared, and it was a delight to see. Not that you wanted to hear a fan grumbling about the T-shirts running out, or a guy whining about his empty coffee cup. It was the shock of being overwhelmed by fans in a market that has treated the team with such indifference. "For me, the best part was standing in line," said Ed Barry of Gulfport, who came with his wife Joan. "I liked meeting the different people, standing around and talking about things. It was fun to see it like this." This is what the Rays have rarely experienced. A buzz in the air, as more people than they can handle try to squeeze through their doors. This is what fans have needed to appreciate. The utter madness and hassles that are associated with a bona fide major-league team. In a market that has little history of its own, this was a moment to savor. What was it that brought people there? Maybe it was the anticipation of a season for a team clearly on the upswing. Maybe it was the novelty of gathering before sunrise. Maybe it was the offer of a future game ticket, a shirt and other prizes to be raffled. Maybe it was all those things and more. Whatever the cause, the crowd was diverse. Children who would leave in the fifth inning to get to school. Business types stopping off before work. Retirees who didn't have tee times until after 8 a.m. "I didn't want to get out of bed, but he was in there at 3:30 saying, "Mom, please get up. Let's go,"' said St. Petersburg's Dee Dee Shickel, who came with her 12-year-old son Zachary. "This turned out to be worth it." For Rays employees, there were moments of exhilaration. And moments of fear. Sometimes, it was hard to tell which was which. It was quickly clear that rations were not going to hold out. The concessionaire at Tropicana Field was making enough pastries to feed 500. Maybe a couple hundred more if he skimped on the sugar. As the fans continued to pour in, Rays vice president Wayne Hodes handed his credit card to an employee. Minutes later, there were 60 dozen donuts being delivered. The plan was to keep everyone in the Brew Pub just inside the rotunda. Some tables in Centerfield Street could be used for overflow. "We had talked about a Plan B, so we were ready to open the Batter's Eye (restaurant) when it started getting crowded," Hodes said. "When that filled up, we had to come up with a Plan C." That involved opening the leftfield bleachers and turning on the RaysVision scoreboard screen. This meant the two security guards on duty were now stretched across several stadium levels and were outnumbered 1,000 to 1. Still, it worked. The morning's first ovation was reserved for Jose Tavarez, the team's guest relations expert, who announced the first-place Rays were about to take the field. Fans would cheer when Carl Crawford slid home with the first run and groan when Hideki Matsui hit a long homer to right. So there were not enough donuts to go around. And the line did not move quickly enough. So the team played poorly and was routed by the Yankees. This was not about results. This was a day for memories. The Rays gave their fans a morning unlike any other. And the fans gave the Rays a glimpse of possibilities. [Last modified April 1, 2004, 01:50:42] Imagine if that had happened here? We would have Greg Cote, Dan LeBatard, Mike Berardino, Dave Hyde, Greg Stoda, and Dave George falling all over themselves to see who could come up with the most negative comments about management. Remember the hot dog scandal of two years ago. Geez, if the Suncoast Dome (that's the real name of that dump and I'll never call it anything else) ran out of hot dogs on Opening Day, the papers up there would be writing about how amazing it was that so many people showed up that they ran out of hot dogs. However, at this point I'm not sure what is more pathetic: the "Doom & Gloom" South Florida media or the "Ignorant Local Yokel" Tampa Bay area media.

:banghead This is stupid s***, obviously, when the man putting up the most opposition is a "good ol' boy" from Jacksonville, I cry foul. He has no right to interfere with South Florida politics, and the fact that he'd declare it dead before even allowing the proposition to go before the Senate is enraging. Additionally, the fact that we're the only pro team in the last 30 years in Florida to bring a championship, let alone two, to the state and we get treated like garbage is a load of crap. f*** Wayne and f*** King Not to be a wet blanket, but when the Marlins go to Tallahassee to ask for "state" money, it is well within the area of a senator from Jacksonville to be a part of it. Once the Marlins went to Tallahassee, it was no longer just a South Florida political issue, it was a State of Florida political issue. Second, you apparently have forgotten that the Marlins are not the only professional sports team in the state that have won a championship. Did you already forget about the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. This pitch to Tallahassee was not well planned and the Marlins have only themselves to blame. You cannot go and play political hardball with David Samson as your leader. This should have been presented to the Legislature prior to the session having even convened. There is a way to politic in the State Legislature, and the Marlins missed the boat. I do not blame Senator King, Representative Rubio, or anyone else in Tallahassee. This should have been better planned out. And for that, I blame the Marlins brass.

Makes you wonder how he earned those millions....the man just isn't that bright. :plain Au contraire mon frer, he is quite "bright" and also as sly as a fox. Of course he knows that salaries have gone up and that the share the Marlins get from the stadium is minimal, at best. Huizenga is a shrewd businessman. Do you ACTUALLY expect him to get up and say, "Oh, yeah, I'm screwing the Marlins over!" C'mon, get real. He was shrewd in 1997 when he concocted losses for the team, based on the fact that the Marlins were basically "taking" money from Wayne's left pocket (the team) and depositing it in his right pocket (the stadium). Sure the Marlins entity was losing money, but it was merely a redistribution of wealth that conveniently "found" itself in his stadium entity. You don't make money in the "waste management" business by being stupid.

I managed to get on one baseball last year the following: Jeffrey Loria, David Samson, Admin Beinfest, Jeff Torborg, Jack McKeon, Ivan Rodriguez, Derrek Lee, Luis Castillo, Alex Gonzalez, Mike Lowell, Jeff Conine, Todd Hollandsworth, Juan Encarnacion, Brian Banks, Mike Mordecai, Andy Fox, Mike Redmond, Ramon Castro, Josh Beckett, Brad Penny, Carl Pavano, AJ Burnett, Michael Tejera, Blaine Neal, Justin Wayne, Dontrelle Willis, Chad Fox, Braden Looper, Vladimir Nunez, Tim Spooneybarger, and Armando Almanza. Pudge and Loria are on the "sweet spot." The ball is completely filled with not much room left anywhere for a signature. My three year old daughter got Josh Beckett to sign her baseball this spring. He wrote "To Alexa:" and signed it for her. Dontrelle Willis, Mike Lowell, and AJ Burnett signed baseball cards for her too. The only others I have lying around are Jim Palmer, Tony Perez and AJ Burnett (didn't sign on the sweet spot) on MLB baseballs, and Frank "Big Hurt" Thomas on an AL Baseball he signed back in 1992.

Excuse me, but what "stadium committee?" If there is a committee that is made up of members of the City of Miami and Miami-Dade County, then I've never heard of this "committee." Furthermore, by state statute (Chapter 286, Florida Statutes), no meeting of a committee that consists of elected officials, or officials appointed by a governing legislative body, can make decisions without there being a duly noticed public hearing and all discussions must be made at this pubic hearing. I'm sorry, but I think this UM professor is full of s**t. Don't mean to rain on your parade, but lets allow the facts to rule here, not rumor and baseless hyperbole.

Calm down. Why do you have to be so confrontational? This seems to be very personal to you - why? I dont think Cape was suggesting that Codina would just build it for the Marlins and have them move in. I think in terms of working together to develop a project and execute it, Codina could be seen as a vital ally for the Marlins' interests here. And I think you are oversimplifying what is expressed here to sensationalize your points. Sorry, but we dont fall for that here. I am calm. I'm just being much more rational than most folks here. The statement made was "but Codina is friendly to the Marlins, built the mall, and would be happy to build a ballpark." If we're going to have a mature conversation or dialogue involving this touchy issue, I'd rather stay within the realm of facts and not speculation. I merely asked CapeFish where he got that information from and the only response I got was "BTW, Codina and his company are big season ticket holders for the Marlins. Not suites that go to Wayne, but season tickets that go to the Marlins." The truth of the matter is that as we stand right now there are $73M from the County from the convention/sports facility tax, and $137M from the Marlins in pledged revenues, not cash in hand. So we've now got $220M. Meanwhile, Samson says it'll cost $350M to build a retractable roof stadium. I say, "YEAH RIGHT!" Optimistically speaking the Marlins are $130M short, realistically speaking I say the Marlins are about $225M short. The City of Miami cannot just make $225M appear out of thin air. The City offered what they could and the Marlins rejected it. We can speculate all we want about Codina and other developers. I can post here saying that the Related Group would love to be a partner in developing a ballpark area, or Swerdlow or the Stiles Group, or any other developers in South Florida. But the truth is that NO ONE. NOT A SINGLE ONE has stepped up and said ANYTHING about it. That is my point. If that is "confrontational," then I'm sorry. This is a message board and if my point of view is not welcome because I don't simply fall in line with the "rah rah" of this message board, then there is no point in having a lively dicussion. I realize I'm probably a lot older than most posters here, and I may be more familiar with the ways of the world. I also deal daily with local governments because of what I do for a living. I know for a fact that the Broward County Commission has NO MONEY to give for a stadium. Trust me, that came right out of Mayor Lieberman's and Commissioner Parrish's mouths to me. So, I've now said my piece.

I never said he would build it at reduced cost. Read what I said, Codina would be happy to be hired to build the ballpark. They would have to bid, but if the land at Dolphin Mall can be had as part of the bid, it may help. BTW, Codina and his company are big season ticket holders for the Marlins. Not suites that go to Wayne, but season tickets that go to the Marlins. Read what I said. I only mentioned that having one developer build a stadium is not a feasible situation. Again, do you have a published source on Codina's sentiments on building a park? Just because he and his company are season ticket holders isn't enough for you to infer that he will build a park. As a matter of fact, having actually dealt with Codina before in my line of work, they may well be the "developers" of the park in a venture with the County or City. But singlehandedly owning the land and building a stadium, trust me, Codina would NEVER do that!

The Dolphin Mall has hurdles, but Codina is friendly to the Marlins, built the mall, and would be happy to build a ballpark. I'm sorry, but you're going to have to come up with a source that states that Codina would be "happy to build a ballpark" and is "friendly to the Marlins." Why would Codina build a park? For the "good of the community?" Armando Codina is all about one thing and one thing only, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Singlehandedly incurring the costs of building and maintaining a stadium for one tenant and some other activities does not appear to be a money making venture. I'm sorry, but some of this stadium talk is based on these wild assumptions that are unfounded and ludicrous. I don't want to be a wet blanket on this topic, but c'mon folks, a $350M-$500M expenditure is no chump change to just throw terms like "just build it!" It's not that easy, trust me.

I'm having a brain freeze, anyone know where Admin Beinfest came from? He was an asst somewhere before joining Loria and company. Asst. GM with the Seattle Mariners.