FRZfishfan

Maury Brown is the editor of BusinessOfBaseball.com, co-chair of SABR's Business of Baseball committee, and covers the business of baseball at his blog, The Baseball Journals. His analysis and commentary has been published in the Boston Globe, CNN/Money, Toronto Globe and Mail, Los Angeles Times, Pittsburgh Post Gazette, San Jose Mercury News, and Oregonian. yeah a real dumbass.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/...n-day-payrolls/

I'm like one of the few idiots that has Bellsouth Americast.

Why is MOE our #3 starter? Because the rest of our team is playing elsewhere.

Dude my cable company has poker on FSN.

Palm Beach is considered it's own market in media terms. They have their own TV stations that don't reach down here. Of course there's no hard boundary and baseball territories are not drawn the same way media markets are drawn. Tampa has more households but remember there's a huge retiree population in Tampa St. Pete which makes their household size smaller than Miami, where as I said HHI are larger based on the fact that more than 40% of the market is Hispanic and Hispanics have more people in their households.

There's nothing that can be done to increase attendance at this point. With the cloud of uncertainty hanging over the club about its future home, people don't want to get emotionally invested again. It took several years and a WS win to get back to 1.8 Million fans. It's a slow process where trust has to be earned. The only thing that will help is when they break ground on a new stadium. Then people will start coming back because they'll feel secure about the future of the club. As the stadium nears completion, attendance will increase because people will want priority for selecting seats in the new park. But if the opposite happens and a move is announced we'll have 2 seasons (after this one) of 1000 people in the stands. The reason this year's attendance will be higher is because a lot of people renewed during the playoff push last year.

The first list is the list of DMA's or "TV markets" ranked by number of households. The second list is metropolitan areas ranked by population. In some markets (Especially ones that are heavy Hispanic) Household size is bigger than average. So San Antonio has a much smaller HH count than Orlando but about the same population. Marketers tend to look at HH count when picking markets because in general a HH with 4 people (2 parents and 2 kids) has thee same number of decision makers as one with 5 (2 parents and 3 kids).

I don't like the sacrifice bunt in general, because I don't like giving outs away. But that steal decision was ridiculous.

I don't understand all this talk about ownership changes either. The fact is that I would have no problem with the ownership if they weren't trying to back up mayflower trucks to the stadium and move the team. We had a big money owner, two of them in fact, and the problem was the same. We need a baseball park and in this day and age that means public funding. Whether it's right or fair, that's what Loria is competing with, owners that have teams in bigger markets and/or that play in publicly financed facilities.

I've said it before, there's no market bigger than Miami-Ft. Lauderdale that doesn't already have an MLB team. And while stadium revenue is nice you can't rob peter to pay paul. Broadcasting revenues are a big part of the equation and regardless of San Antonio's growth, south florida is growing too. Even if the Marlins leave, baseball will come to South Florida because our market is too big not to have it. Obviosly my preference would be to save the Marlins than to start again with some expansion team or some AL team like the Devil Rays or A's. Market, Rank, Households (% of US HH) New York 1 7,376 (6.8%) Los Angeles 2 5,402 (4.9%) Chicago 3 3,399 (3.1%) Philadelphia 4 2,874 (2.6%) Boston (Manchester) 5 2,392 (2.2%) San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 6 2,441 (2.2%) Dallas-Ft. Worth 7 2,256 (2.0%) Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 8 2,224 (2.0%) Atlanta 9 2,035 (1.8%) Detroit 10 1,923 (1.7%) Houston 11 1,849 (1.7%) Seattle-Tacoma 12 1,685 (1.5%) Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 13 1,644 (1.5%) Minneapolis-St. Paul 14 1,636 (1.5%) Phoenix (Prescott), AZ 15 1,562 (1.4%) Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 16 1,543 (1.4%) Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 17 1,511 (1.3%) Denver 18 1,399 (1.2%) Sacramnto-Stktn-Modesto 19 1,278 (1.1%) Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 20 1,264 (1.1%) St. Louis 21 1,202 (1.1%) Pittsburgh 22 1,175 (1.0%) Baltimore 23 1,083 (0.9%) Portland, OR 24 1,073 (0.9%) Indianapolis 25 1,038 (0.9%) San Diego 26 1,029 (0.9%) Hartford & New Haven 27 1,001 (0.9%) Charlotte 28 987 (0.9%) Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 29 948 (0.8%) Nashville 30 904 (0.8%) Kansas City 31 875 (0.8%) Milwaukee 32 871 (0.8%) Cincinnati 33 872 (0.8%) Columbus, OH 34 854 (0.7%) Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And 35 807 (0.7%) Salt Lake City 36 786 (0.7%) San Antonio 37 736 (0.6%) Grand Rapids-Kalmzoo-B.Crk 38 724 (0.6%) West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 39 709 (0.6%) Birmingham (Ann and Tusc) 40 698 (0.6%) Norfolk-Portsmth-Newpt Nws 41 694 (0.6%) Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 42 637 (0.5%) New Orleans 43 665 (0.6%) Memphis 44 662 (0.6%) Oklahoma City 45 647 (0.5%) Buffalo 46 648 (0.5%) Albuquerque-Santa Fe 47 634 (0.5%) Greensboro-H.Point-W.Salem 48 645 (0.5%) Providence-New Bedford 49 636 (0.5%) Louisville 50 624 (0.5%) Las Vegas 51 602 (0.5%) Jacksonville, Brunswick 52 598 (0.5%) Wilkes Barre-Scranton 53 590 (0.5%) Austin 54 578 (0.5%) Albany-Schenectady-Troy 55 543 (0.5%) Dayton 56 512 (0.4%) Little Rock-Pine Bluff 57 524 (0.4%) Fresno-Visalia 58 521 (0.4%) Knoxville 59 499 (0.4%) Tulsa 60 505 (0.4%) Richmond-Petersburg 61 512 (0.4%) Charleston-Huntington 62 495 (0.4%) Mobile-Pensacola (Ft Walt) 63 498 (0.4%) Lexington 64 467 (0.4%) Flint-Saginaw-Bay City 65 474 (0.4%) Wichita-Hutchinson Plus 66 448 (0.4%) Roanoke-Lynchburg 67 450 (0.4%) Ft. Myers-Naples 68 421 (0.3%) Green Bay-Appleton 69 427 (0.3%) Toledo 70 426 (0.3%) Honolulu 71 412 (0.3%) Tucson (Sierra Vista) 72 413 (0.3%) Des Moines-Ames 73 405 (0.3%) Portland-Auburn 74 399 (0.3%) Rochester, NY 75 395 (0.3%) Omaha 76 389 (0.3%) Syracuse 77 384 (0.3%) Springfield, MO 78 389 (0.3%) Paducah-Cape Girard-Harsbg 79 391 (0.3%) Spokane 80 382 (0.3%) Shreveport 81 380 (0.3%) Champaign&Sprngfld-Decatur 82 379 (0.3%) Columbia, SC 83 364 (0.3%) Huntsville-Decatur (Flor) 84 364 (0.3%) Madison 85 355 (0.3%) Chattanooga 86 349 (0.3%) South Bend-Elkhart 87 330 (0.3%) Cedar Rapids-Wtrlo-IWC&Dub 88 328 (0.3%) Tri-Cities, TN-VA 89 322 (0.2%) Burlington-Plattsburgh 90 323 (0.2%) Jackson, MS 91 322 (0.2%) Colorado Springs-Pueblo 92 310 (0.2%) Harlingen-Wslco-Brnsvl-McA 93 297 (0.2%) Davenport-R.Island-Moline 94 308 (0.2%) Waco-Temple-Bryan 95 310 (0.2%) Baton Rouge 96 300 (0.2%) Johnstown-Altoona 97 297 (0.2%) Savannah 98 289 (0.2%) Evansville 99 284 (0.2%) El Paso (Las Cruces) 100 284 (0.2%) Charleston, SC 101 270 (0.2%) Youngstown 102 279 (0.2%) Lincoln & Hstngs-Krny Plus 103 274 (0.2%) Ft. Wayne 104 269 (0.2%) Greenville-N.Bern-Washngtn 105 271 (0.2%) Springfield-Holyoke 106 261 (0.2%) Ft. Smith-Fay-Sprngdl-Rgrs 107 260 (0.2%) Myrtle Beach-Florence 108 258 (0.2%) Tallahassee-Thomasville 109 250 (0.2%) Lansing 110 252 (0.2%) Tyler-Longview(Lfkn&Ncgd) 111 260 (0.2%) Traverse City-Cadillac 112 249 (0.2%) Montgomery-Selma 113 243 (0.2%) Reno 114 242 (0.2%) Augusta 115 244 (0.2%) Sioux Falls(Mitchell) 116 247 (0.2%) Peoria-Bloomington 117 241 (0.2%) Fargo-Valley City 118 233 (0.2%) Macon 119 225 (0.2%) Eugene 120 227 (0.2%) SantaBarbra-SanMar-SanLuOb 121 230 (0.2%) Boise 122 222 (0.2%) Lafayette, LA 123 216 (0.1%) Monterey-Salinas 124 226 (0.2%) Columbus, GA 125 208 (0.1%) Yakima-Pasco-Rchlnd-Knnwck 126 201 (0.1%) La Crosse-Eau Claire 127 207 (0.1%) Bakersfield 128 190 (0.1%) Corpus Christi 129 194 (0.1%) Amarillo 130 191 (0.1%) Chico-Redding 131 186 (0.1%) Columbus-Tupelo-West Point 132 188 (0.1%) Wausau-Rhinelander 133 179 (0.1%) Rockford 134 179 (0.1%) Monroe-El Dorado 135 174 (0.1%) Duluth-Superior 136 172 (0.1%) Topeka 137 172 (0.1%) Beaumont-Port Arthur 138 171 (0.1%) Columbia-Jefferson City 139 167 (0.1%) Wilmington 140 159 (0.1%) Medford-Klamath Falls 141 161 (0.1%) Erie 142 159 (0.1%) Sioux City 143 158 (0.1%) Wichita Falls & Lawton 144 158 (0.1%) Lubbock 145 152 (0.1%) Joplin-Pittsburg 146 153 (0.1%) Albany, GA 147 157 (0.1%) Bluefield-Beckley-Oak Hill 148 144 (0.1%) Terre Haute 149 146 (0.1%) Salisbury 150 145 (0.1%) Bangor 151 140 (0.1%) Wheeling-Steubenville 152 142 (0.1%) Rochestr-Mason City-Austin 153 141 (0.1%) Binghamton 154 139 (0.1%) Anchorage 155 136 (0.1%) Biloxi-Gulfport 156 134 (0.1%) Minot-Bismarck-Dickinson 157 132 (0.1%) Odessa-Midland 158 133 (0.1%) Palm Springs 159 125 (0.1%) Panama City 160 133 (0.1%) Sherman, TX-Ada, OK 161 122 (0.1%) Gainesville 162 117 (0.1%) Abilene-Sweetwater 163 115 (0.1%) Idaho Falls-Pocatello 164 110 (0.1%) Clarksburg-Weston 165 106 (0.0%) Utica 166 105 (0.0%) Quincy-Hannibal-Keokuk 167 106 (0.0%) Hattiesburg-Laurel 168 102 (0.0%) Missoula 169 100 (0.0%) Billings 170 99 (0.0%) Yuma-El Centro 171 99 (0.0%) Dothan 172 99 (0.0%) Elmira (Corning) 173 98 (0.0%) Jackson, TN 174 75 (0.0%) Watertown 175 91 (0.0%) Alexandria, LA 176 92 (0.0%) Lake Charles 177 93 (0.0%) Rapid City 178 94 (0.0%) Jonesboro 179 88 (0.0%) Marquette 180 90 (0.0%) Harrisonburg 181 86 (0.0%) Bowling Green 182 80 (0.0%) Greenwood-Greenville 183 79 (0.0%) Meridian 184 71 (0.0%) Charlottesville 185 70 (0.0%) Lafayette, IN 186 63 (0.0%) Parkersburg 187 65 (0.0%) Great Falls 188 64 (0.0%) Grand Junction-Montrose 189 62 (0.0%) Laredo 190 60 (0.0%) Twin Falls 191 59 (0.0%) Eureka 192 58 (0.0%) Butte-Bozeman, MT 193 57 (0.0%) Lima 194 71 (0.0%) Cheyenne, WY-Scottsbluff 195 53 (0.0%) San Angelo 196 54 (0.0%) Bend, OR 197 51 (0.0%) Casper-Riverton 198 51 (0.0%) Mankato 199 51 (0.0%) Ottumwa-Kirksville 200 51 (0.0%) St. Joseph 201 50 (0.0%) Zanesville 202 33 (0.0%) Presque Isle 203 30 (0.0%) Fairbanks 204 32 (0.0%) Victoria 205 31 (0.0%) Helena 206 25 (0.0%) Juneau, AK 207 26 (0.0%) Alpena 208 18 (0.0%) North Platte 209 16 (0.0%) Glendive 210 5 (0.0%) Top 50 Metropolitan Areas Ranked by Population, 2003 Rank Population (in 000s) Name 1 18,641 New York, Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY- NJ, PA 2 12,829 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA 3 9,334 Chicago, IL-IN-WI 4 5,773 Philadelphia, PA-NJ-DE 5 5,590 Dallas-Fort Worth, TX 6 5,289 Miami-Fort Lauderdale, FL 7 5,090 Washington, DC-VA-MD-WV 8 5,076 Houston, TX 9 4,610 Atlanta, GA 10 4,484 Detroit, MI 11 4,440 Boston, MA-NH 12 4,157 San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, CA 13 3,642 Riverside-San Bernaardino-Ontario, CA 14 3,593 Phoenix, AZ 15 3,142 Seattle-Tacoma, WA 16 3,084 Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN-WI 17 2,931 San Diego, CA 18 2,759 St. Louis, MO-IL 19 2,616 Baltimore, MD 20 2,532 Tampa-St. Petersburg, FL 21 2,410 Pittsburgh, PA 22 2,301 Denver, CO 23 2,140 Cleveland, OH 24 2,047 CIncinnati, OH-KY-IN 25 2,040 Portland, OR-WA 26 1,975 Sacremento, CA 27 1,905 Kansas City, MO-KS 28 1,821 San Antonio, TX 29 1,803 Orlando, FL 30 1,735 San Jose, CA 31 1,675 Columbus, OH 32 1,637 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA 33 1,623 Providence, RI-MA 34 1,595 Indianapolis, IN 35 1,577 Las Vegas, NV 36 1,514 Milwaukee, WI 37 1,437 Charlotte, NC-SC 38 1,378 Austin, TX 39 1,371 Nashville, TN 40 1,318 New Orleans, LA 41 1,239 Memphis, TN-MS-AR 42 1,203 Jacksonville, FL 43 1,190 Louisville, KY, IN 44 1,178 Hartford, CT 45 1,159 Buffalo-Niagra Falls, NY 46 1,138 Richmand, VA 47 1,133 Oklahoma City, OK 48 1,073 Birmingham, AL 49 1,041 Rochester, NY 50 1,005 Salt Lake City, UT Metropolitan statistical areas as defined by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget as of December 2003

descarga deportiva does in fact literally mean Sports Discharge but a more suitable translation would be Sports Download. As far as Hialeah having a rabid fan base that will go to the games, I don't think that's a good criteria. After all I don't know that anyone did a study to determine if Caroll City has a rabid fan base before they awarded the team to Huizenga. The important thing is to have a location that is centrally located for all the rabid fans from all over south florida to get there. And lets not forget that it's the more casual and less rabid fans that make the difference between 15,000 per game and 30,000. I'm for the Hialeah site. I'm for any site in South Florida. Now about San Antonio upping its offer, well I guess that's the whole point of having more than one suitor. You can play one off of the other. It's the way we would all do it if we were in charge.

I was just curious what the US team would have looked like if you had assembled it (assuming no injuries to prevent a guy a from participating). Who would the starting position players and DH be? The starting pitchers? The bullpen? Bench Players. If you guys have already discussed this just refer me to the thread. I have been away from the board for a few weeks.

For those not from the South Florida area, the map can be kind of deceptive. The Greater Miami area is made up of many municipalities (of which the City of Miami itself is only one) and unincorporated parts of the County (where Dolphins Stadium is now). Hialeah is further south and west than Dolphins Stadium. I don't have the exact mileage but I wouldn't be surprised if the Hialeah site is actually closer to the City of Miami than Dolphins Stadium. Hialeah is the second largest city in the County, behind Miami. Additionally Hialeah is full of baseball fans (people who might actually vote for use of public funds for a ballpark) and the city has not had the types of financial crises that Miami has had in the past. Hialeah gets put down a lot because it's so Hispanic. People have an impression of Hialeah as a Banana republic. That impression has been reinforced by the long time and now former Mayor Raul Martinez. Martinez was combatative and embattled, but also an effective mayor for the city. The parks and recreation department in Hialeah is probably the best in the county.

his days are numbered. The fire tax settlement thing will be the end of him. He denies it but it will bring him down eventually.

Record 65-97.

Wouldn't Tampa be a top contender for contraction.

Spring training audience is completely different than regular season audience. Many of our opponents fans will be coming down during the spring to watch their teams. Plus Jupiter is great place and the Roger Dean is a great stadium. I don't think Marlins attendance will break 1.2 million this year.

There's two sides to the revenue picture. Game revenues (tickeets, parking, concessions, etc) and broadcasting rights fees. Market size is important when it comes to broadcast rights because advertisers buy impressions (pairs of eyes that see/hear their commercials). And there's no market bigger than Miami-Ft. Lauderdale that currently has no MLB team. So leaving to a new city is a gamble that the new ballpark will provide enough revenues to offset revenue loss from smaller broadcasting fees. Even a fully paid-for stadium in another market may not make financial sense for the club depending on the size of that market. But if the Marlins have no home in SoFla after 2010 or whatever the deadline is for the lease with DS, then they may have to take a less than optimal deal.

http://www.slate.com/id/2132511/ If this was already posted, disregard and accept my apologies.

Hasn't this thread outlived its usefulness? apparently not if people are still voicing their opinions on the matter.

I wouldn't buy that flashy used car from smiling salesman without having a professional or amateur mechanic in my family check it out. Would you? Yeah but let's say you checked it out and it was fine (and by the way you bought 3 cars from the same guy before with no problems) but when they delivered it was completely different. Like they had crashed it and haphazardly tried to put it back together to look something like it did before. But it won't run the same way. That's a good old fashioned bait and switch.

I knew tough decisions were coming but not the fire sale. My expectations were that Beckett and Lowell would be gone. Lowell because he was the 2nd highest player on the team and hadn't produced in a year and a half. Beckett because he was coveted and we would never be able to re-sign him once he became a free agent. I knew Burnett was gone. I expected Castillo to be on the team. I expected Delgado to stay because of his lefty power. I was even money on Gonzo. So I saw an infield of Delgado, Castillo, and Cabrera with possibly a young SS. I expected LoDuca to be here. I knew the Hermida would be in the outfield and I suspected Pierre might get dealt but that Encarnacion would move to center. Leaving one outfield spot (Conine?). I would have been happy with that. I don't need the Marlins to contend. But I expect them to be competitive on any given night. The team the assembling (disassembling) will lose 100 games or come damn close. Sure, but don't ask me to change your diaper. If you didn't suspect this could have happened, you were naive. The risk was there. I'm not asking for anything. I'm just letting people know what I decided to do because there might be others that feel as defrauded as me and I want to let them know that they don't have to say 'Thank you sir, may I have another'.

you know... I believe everyone saw this coming... It's not like 2 weeks ago Loria came out and said " I'm trading the roster " if you bought tickets then you bought tickets. if I bought a satalite dish to watch night court on tv land, and tv land then took it off and replaced it with boosum buddies, I wouldn't be on the phone to Directv asking for a refund. you have Marlins season tickets man, enjoy it.. even if they lose 100 games it's worth it. Ya you saw it coming Nostradamus. That's one of those throwaway lines you can say now that it's happened. But the fact is that this ownership had done nothing in 4 years to indicate that would trade away basically the entire starting line-up. And if you bought a satellite dish to watch night court then you'd be confirming that you are the rube that I think you are. Yeah that's a real good analogy except that I paid more than $1,000 for tickets that I won't even be able to give away.

This is not going to help the stadium cause The reason I became a STH in the first place was to support the team after their worst attendance in their history (2002) and kept them because I love baseball and I wanted to show support for the stadium. But think about it, a team that tells its STH to shove it, already has one foot out the door. If they thought they were staying they would have been more open minded about refunds. Everybody would now be talking about how classy they are instead of them being used car salesmen. Remember the revenue picture for the Marlins in the current stadium doesn't change that much whether they have 5,000 people avg or 30,000 avg. So if they respected the fans and said "look we have to make these changes we don't want to make and we understand that this wasn't what you signed up for so if you'd like to cancel, go ahead" they'd lose some money in 2006 but have a lot of goodwill moving forward as these young players get better. How many of the pissed fans that didn't get refunds for 2006 do you think will be STH in 2007?