anotherrealfan

[ Yep, they'll know it when they come home they compare the 12,000 fans at a saturday night game to the sold out minite maid park. *Yawn* Ditto-multiple yawns. I'll be there and all those fans for other teams who live here, well, you don't do much to add to the attendance of your favorite team. Yea, I know, everyone of you had full season tix when you lived "up dere". Watching these baby marlins hit into double plays is not much different than the underachieving bunch from last year, but I think in three games we have had more two out hits than in the first two months combined last year-it just seems like we never got the two out hit last year. Even though these guys have been playing ball most of their lives and the fundamentals have not changed, they have learned a lot in just one series. You shouldn't see stealing on 3-0 counts with 0 outs anymore. You won't see Uggla running into an out on a ground ball to third base etc. Now, on to NY and those lousy stinkin Muts. Heard Wagner topped out at 93 mph last night-something wrong there.

You make it seem as if Chicago was in the Marlins place last night Mike & Mike would have been talking about how incredible the Chicago offense is, but just because it was the Marlins they will make an excuse that it was horrible pitching. Taking it out of context-Yes-exactly.

Can't agree more. A bunch of inexperienced decisions, all in one game. But, it is obvious they learned from the mistakes. It hurts because it meant the game-today should be better.

-Don't you just love what Wayne has done for baseball here (and dont give me-he brought it to us in the first place)

They misled and deceived and misrepresented from the beginning. Care to elaborate here? I thought the 1,000 word essay was elaboration enough. What part of the following seems truthful and requires elaboration? "Right now, we're not marketing performance," Samson explains. "What we're marketing is -- what is the right word? -- we are marketing permanence, not performance. Meaning permanence in this market. " "Again, from my perspective it is more important to build our brand and stress the permanence and commitment to this market, and prove to people you are right and genuine about staying in Florida, which we are.'' Oh, by the way, how am I anti-Marlin? I am angry about what is happening, whoever is to blame. I want to talk about what other team boards talk about exclusively-the team, the position players, the managers decisions etc, but as much as I will support our team by purchasing my three season tix, until we know if they are staying or going, the game on the field is not the only focus, and that is a shame.

Their lease runs out in 2007 and they can't play at PPS after 2010. What do you expect them to do? You know that is only half of the lease issue. They could stay. The other half is Wayne saying he would not kick them out and would give them a new lease. I am not taking issue with the financial problems or the lease. Wayne had his motives for bringing this up during the legislative session which all but eliminated the chance of getting the tax rebate. He stuck his nose in it again and the Marlins fans will suffer again because of Wayne. Loria and Samson will make out just fine-who knows, maybe they asked Wayne to sabotage the deal. They want out, Wayne wants them out-everyone makes out fine and the blame is on the fans and the politicians. Hmmmmm. As far as "what do you expect them to do", that has to do with credibility. They had the lease when "permanence" was shouted. It was all in front of them. They can do what they want-we do not have to like it but don't defend them. They misled and deceived and misrepresented from the beginning. If you could take them at their word, we wouldn't be talking about relocation. They did see what they were getting into. Of course, maybe they got lost in the "hundreds of pages of contract" and did not realize they had a bad lease. Just slipped by them. Never would have talked about "permanence" had they not missed the lease issues. I think it was more that they had to get out of Montreal at any cost.

I do remember the words from David and Jeffrey. Now, there are many to blame for the plight we are in now, BUT, I do have a difficult time with those that completely exonerate our ownership-they are not worthy of that. These takes from 2002 from article on Cnnsi's Mike Fish: "Another interesting twist is, as part of Loria's deal to purchase the Marlins, Major League Baseball agreeing to pick up the tab for his hiring a "stadium revenue guru'' to help jack team revenue. Team president David Samson, Loria's stepson, says the not-yet-hired specialist will focus on making a go of it at Pro Player Stadium, but baseball people insist the only way the Marlins can survive long-term in South Florida is with a new stadium. Samson won't discuss how big a tab baseball agreed to pick up, saying only, "When we negotiated the sale of the Expos and the purchase of the Marlins, it is hundreds of pages of documents -- and this was just part of the negotiated deal." "Right now, we're not marketing performance," Samson explains. "What we're marketing is -- what is the right word? -- we are marketing permanence, not performance. Meaning permanence in this market. " "Again, from my perspective it is more important to build our brand and stress the permanence and commitment to this market, and prove to people you are right and genuine about staying in Florida, which we are.'' "In Florida, the model works perfectly once we get past all this concern about whether the team is leaving, once people realize that the past four years are finished and now it is time to fall in love with the Marlins again.''What Samson won't utter is a word about stadium plans. From Mike Fish: If you look to Florida's two struggling baseball franchises, you'd likely say it makes make more sense to go after the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, who are in worse financial shape. The catch is that the state itself is tied to the long-term lease for Tropicana Field in St. Petersburg, and Selig is shrewd enough not to pick a fight with Gov. Jeb Bush. SO, WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF PERMANENCE AND LONG TERM. I would say that, not counting 2002, where they just took over the team, leaves 2003-05. Three years and a slowly building fan base, but building, to then tear it up again and get into "serious" discussions about moving. Loria and Samson do not deserve to be defended, let them do it themselves.

No chance. This board is full of Marlin fans who still go to games even with the product diluted. I'm a homer and the Fl. Marlins is my team, not the S. Antonio horse droppings. When they are gone, or tell us they are going, I am done. Baseball will never be the same to me again.

That ballpark would look great somewhere in S. Florida-with a retractable roof -ahh, to dream, hopefully not the impossible dream.

"a lot of the destiny of the franchise could be in our fans' hands" Unfortunately, you can't believe a word Samson says. At the fan meeting in December, or was it November, Samson was specifically asked if this would be happening (the dismantling and the courtship of other cities) if attendance was 35,000 a game. He said "YES". So while 35,000 attendance would eliminate the bashing of S. Florida baseball fans, it would mean nothing to change what is happening. Forget about "contributions to the new park", there is only one contribution Loria and Samson want and that is who can bring them the largest treasure chest to place at their feet. Maybe some people think that is all in good business-fine-but don't mislead everyone about the intentions.

The integrity question dealt with Selig's investigation in the steroid matters.

Listening to the putz, Samson-turns my stomach. With the season starting, with the courting of the San Antonio contingent and having them as guests in Houston, with all the matters of concern to many of us, we have to hear him come on and talk about garbage, such as the movie "From here to eternity". The real damn blame goes to LeBetard who has him on the air and gives him the time to waste.

My ticket rep told me that as of yesterday, they have sold just over 20,000. Still think that as game approaches, sales will go up. Expect about 35,000. Yes, we have a good young team-don't mind watching them grow-just need to get rid of that black cloud called San Antonio.

The whole mocking of a Hialeah site is ridiculous, despite Le Batards column. Why is there such a stigma with the area? It is literally a short walk to Miami Lakes, which Don Shula has no problem having his name associated with a resort and golf course, as well as being an affluent area. It is also 5 minutes from the current dolphins stadium site, which no one would have a problem with building there. If the property west of Hialeah is truly in play, then there is access from the Palmetto(I know, always under construction) and I-75. It is just a piece of land we are talking about. Who cares if it is technically within the boundaries of a city called "Hialeah". The location is just about as accessible to Broward and Palm beach as is Dolphins stadium. So it would not be a disaster, the location in itself does not smack of desperation. I grant that the issue of the stadium and the Loria/Samson methods have created a desperate situation-but taken by itself, the Hialeah location is fine.

This article states that "low regular season attendance" has always been a problem for the Marlins. This adds to the false belief that 10,000 people per game was always the norm. The reality is that attendance only really took a dive after 1998. Not making excuses for the past few years, it should have been at least 25% better, but this misconception of fans never supporting the Marlins is wrong. In the 1997 World series season, we averaged close to 30,000. Not great by ST. Louis or Boston or Yankee standards (note that it is good by Met standards) but equal to the Atlanta Braves and many other teams including more than this past season champions White Sox, in the great sports city of Chicago. So when ripping Marlins fans, who endured the unprecedented dismantling in 1998, the stripping of the all-star game and the constant threats of relocation or contraction and a new dismantiling-it is just unfair to paint the picture that the Marlins were never supported. Too many people, management, MLB, politicians etc have all had an equal hand in lowering the fan base. Unfortunately the national media (and New York media) love to bash S. Florida and the sports fans down here. Look in the mirror, the lousy sports fans down here are the ones who love baseball but do not go to the games because they think they are great fans but just happen to be REd Sox or Yankee fans. Unfortunately for them, they do not add to the attendance at their favorite teams park either-since they live here. Yet they take credit for that. You are more responsible for the problems here than any credit or chest pumping you seek for the attendance in other cities.