AGonzalez11

I've never said a word to Beezer in my entire life. I have spoken to 3 current/former players, 2 people in the Panthers media and one very important man who has alot of input on team decisions Hell, I like Olli alot. I think he's great. He ain't liked by his teammates. I've never been wrong about this stuff in the past, and I sure as hell ain't gonna be wrong here. i don't doubt that you have some connections - but i do doubt how you interpret what they tell you. or they're just misguiding you. he may not be well liked by some of his teamates. but the way you word it makes it sounds like he's on an island alone in the locker room and quite frankly, even i can tell you that's not the case. according to one of the local writers (forgot which one) 7-8 current (and now former...belfour) panthers got together at jokinens house every weekend this offseason for some drinks and poker games. now why would they do that if they disliked him? :thumbup Right, he ain't on an island out there.... but he ain't the leader everyone wants him to be either and that's why he isn't as liked/revered as much as he could be the vibe i get from jokinen is he tries to hard to be a captain and at times, rubs people the wrong way because of it. ie: he might say something when something doesn't need to be said. that being said, he got the captaincy at a pretty young age so it's a bit unfair to him as well. he's learning on the job. anyway, like i said, i dont doubt that you have connections, or that he isnt well liked by some guys, but you need to word it better because i know he isn't despised by all of the guys in that room. a handful...maybe. i don't really think its a serious problem because if it was....word would have leaked out by now. it's hard to keep internal especially when youre dealing with a player of jokinen's magnitude.

aren't they both from Finland?... of course he's gonna stick with his guy from his homeland look, I don't care if you believe me... but I've yet to be wrong on anything so far that is newsworthy eh... Beinfest4Prez? :mischief Everything I've heard and read from each of his teammates says that he is a motivational leader. Your baseball sources are usually reliable but I don't know where you got your news from this time. my hockey sources :mischief whatever... I'll keep firing out what I hear, and ya'll can take it anyway you want have you heard anything on: weiss' contract negotiations? bouwmeester's contract negotiations? who/what they're planning to do now that gelinas signed in nashville?

I've never said a word to Beezer in my entire life. I have spoken to 3 current/former players, 2 people in the Panthers media and one very important man who has alot of input on team decisions Hell, I like Olli alot. I think he's great. He ain't liked by his teammates. I've never been wrong about this stuff in the past, and I sure as hell ain't gonna be wrong here. i don't doubt that you have some connections - but i do doubt how you interpret what they tell you. or they're just misguiding you. he may not be well liked by some of his teamates. but the way you word it makes it sounds like he's on an island alone in the locker room and quite frankly, even i can tell you that's not the case. according to one of the local writers (forgot which one) 7-8 current (and now former...belfour) panthers got together at jokinens house every weekend this offseason for some drinks and poker games. now why would they do that if they disliked him? :thumbup

one of his teammates probably broke it on purpose ........talk about over-exaggerating. i haven't heard one derogatory word about jokinen from players or anyone else. it sounds more like your own personal vendetta against him than any actual dislike from his teammates. anyway, i dont think his arm is broken. he had a few surgeries right after the season. he was playing through quite a few injuries. i think he had a wrist surgery, so that could be why you see a cast.

It doesn't look like Martin Gelinas is going to be offered a contract by either Edmonton, Calgary or Vancouver. That means he's coming back to the Panthers for at least a third season. Gelinas signs with the Cats sooner than later. http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapanthers...some-stuff.html Well thats great news, nobody else wants to offer him a deal so he has to settle for the panthers :| in fairness to him, he's from that area, and wants to live there when he decides to hang em up. i'm guessing there's plenty of interest in gelinas around the league....just not from the northwest canadian teams.

It doesn't look like Martin Gelinas is going to be offered a contract by either Edmonton, Calgary or Vancouver. That means he's coming back to the Panthers for at least a third season. Gelinas signs with the Cats sooner than later. http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapanthers...some-stuff.html Well thats great news, nobody else wants to offer him a deal so he has to settle for the panthers :| in fairness to him, he's from that area, and wants to live there when he decides to hang em up. i'm guessing there's plenty of interest in gelinas around the league....just not from the northwest canadian teams.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flapanthers...rm-decisio.html so no playoffs in eight years buys the panthers 3,000 new season tickets? what a little optimism can do for a team.......so much for no one caring about hockey in south fla. :lol

what an immature little punk. olsen could go out next year and win 20 games and i'd still have a tough time rooting for him. considering the fact that he absolutley sucks this season? just get rid of this clown already.

We can't lose 7 games to the Thrashers again. Frickin Thrashers. :banghead LETS GO THRASHERS!!! GIT OUTTA HERE gotta rep my 2nd favorite team...that being said, Panthers will be MUCH better this year! How the hell can your second favorite team be, arguably, the Panther's biggest rival? :banghead grew up in Atlanta...spent many boring years there, but the Thrashers were getting started when i was there, so I have a place for the team. Ottawa and Toronto are my current 3 and 4 due to school connections. 4 teams? Toronto and Ottawa are rivals as well. You need to just have one team not multiple teams. unfortunantly, I have to root for Atlanta becuase I just like the team...Toronto and Ottawa I don't root for, especially if they're playing the Thrash or Panthers, I just have personal connections to the teams. :banghead Panthers>>>Thrashers...but Thrashers are still my 2nd favorite team. Fair? having the thrashers as your second favorite team would be like a marlin fan cheering on the braves or phillies or mets. it just doesn't make sense. atlanta has dominated the panthers and are an extremely dirty team. i personally can't stomach them. but for each his own i guess :thumbup

if i remember correctly - florida traded for tomas vokoun, who has a $5.7mil cap hit without dealing away any players. the cap continues to increase because revenues do as well. you don't build teams based around hypotheticals though. it's too risky. what does philly do if the cap does DOWN next year? what happens if NBC doesn't renew their contract with the NHL and the NHL is without a national broadcast deal? i would take gomez and drury of weiss as well - if they made the same salaries. but i wouldn't want either over weiss if they made $7.35 mil and weiss makes $3mil. also disagree about the panthers. they can finish anywhere as high as 3rd IMO. this division isn't that good and they're the only team (other than washington) who has made a significant addition. Right now these teams are better: New Jersey Pitt Rangers Devils Buffalo Ottawa Toronto Atlanta That leaves the panthers with tampa, montreal, islanders and carolina to fight for the 8th spot. first of all - you listed new jersey twice. and while they have had a well-earned reputation as winners, you can't ignore losing brian rafalski and scott gomez. toronto and atlanta are extremely arguable. atlanta's defense is absolute trash. you can't really say one team is better than another anyway. would you have thought pittsburgh would make the jump they did by adding mark eaton and an unproven malkin? no one did. it's impossible to predict the impact vokoun could have on this team. teams that go one spending sprees rarely find success. just look at the coyotes last year. haha new jersey is so good I listed them twice... oops The devils lost two players, but they were 20 points better than the panthers last year. Atlanta was 11 points better than the panthers and didnt lose anyone. Toronto just signed someone (I forget who) and their offseason isnt over. The leafs will max their cap out. This is a team that just missed the playoffs by a point or two. Montreal is probably still a little better than the panthers. Islanders are just as good. There are a bunch of teams in the panthers class in the second tier of the East. I hope the panthers make the playoffs, I am sick of them not making it. However I just am not sold on them. Adding two guys who scored 35 points last season and a goalie isnt making them a top tier (4-5) team in my opinion. And what does the previous season's point total have to do with anything in regards to losing players? We could very much argue that the Panthers were a playoff team last year and the year before that if not for injuries. And the Islanders are not just as good as the Panthers. No way. Not after losing Poti, Smyth, Blake, and Kozlov. Who is on that team now? Trent Hunter? Rick Dipietro is the best player on that team right now. Your argument for Toronto bothers me a little. What does maxing your cap out do for playoff chances other than preventing wiggle room in case of injury? Montreal, I would say, is right on par with the Panthers if they can get Souray back. You think the Panthers offense is bad? Montreal's stinks worse than a rotting alligator carcass. Now that changes if the Russians ever decide to start playing well for Les Habitens. The Devils are not that much better than the Panthers at this point. Whats to say Marty Broduer just starts losing it because age is finally catching up? That defense has lost a lot in Rafalski. Though, Lamiorello is the best in the business so he'll probably find someone better. Atlanta's defense sucks. They lost a lot and gained nothing. They are really counting on their young guys to come through..oh wait they traded them for Alexei freakin' Zhitnik who doesn't know defense from the right side of his face. Atlanta has Hossa, Kozlov, and Kovalchuk and that will always make them dangerous to play against and Lehtonen is very, very good. However, Atlanta still has no defense and I don't care how good your offense is or how good your goalie is, no defense=no division title. They'll definitely contend for the playoffs, though. Buffalo will still be good. That team has so much ridiculous depth its scary. Philadelphia will not make the playoffs this year. They just aren't that good in a division with the Rangers, the Pens, and the Devils. Those three will absolutely beat up on the Flyers. But the Flyers will beat up on the Islanders, who are a bunch of nobodies and Dipietro. Other than that, Ottawa, Pittsburgh, and the Rangers will all be there in the end at this point. On paper, and I stress on paper, this is how I see the playoffs shaking out at this point. In no particular order: Ottawa Buffalo Rangers Florida Atlanta Pittsburgh Montreal New Jersey With the Hurricanes, Lightning, and Maple Leafs all contending heavily. Boston, Washington, Philadelphia and the Islanders have no hope. I think we agree that Ottawa, Rangers, Buffalo and Pittsburgh are clearly better than the panthers. I would still put the devils ahead of the panthers at this point. Then you have second level teams which include atlanta, montreal, toronto, tampa, carolina and the panthers. Panthers were the 11th best team last year. Vokoun is better than Belfour, however how much better is he? Essentially thats all the panthers have done this offseason. Dvorak, Zednik and Mclean are basically 3rd to 4th liners. I dont see how the panthers have made this tremendous jump and now have become a playoff team. i'm not going to say anyone is clearly better than anyone. you can't judge teams on paper. who would have thought the flyers would have gone from 3rd-4th in the east to dead last? it's impossible to know. you admitted vokoun is better than eddie. well, eddie went 27-17-10 last year. project that over a full season and it's easily a playoff record. the problem last year was alex auld played in 25 games and was abysmal. goaltending is the most crucial position in sports. it's solidified now. barring injured (knock on wood) - vokoun should make this team a playoff team.

if i remember correctly - florida traded for tomas vokoun, who has a $5.7mil cap hit without dealing away any players. the cap continues to increase because revenues do as well. you don't build teams based around hypotheticals though. it's too risky. what does philly do if the cap does DOWN next year? what happens if NBC doesn't renew their contract with the NHL and the NHL is without a national broadcast deal? i would take gomez and drury of weiss as well - if they made the same salaries. but i wouldn't want either over weiss if they made $7.35 mil and weiss makes $3mil. also disagree about the panthers. they can finish anywhere as high as 3rd IMO. this division isn't that good and they're the only team (other than washington) who has made a significant addition. Right now these teams are better: New Jersey Pitt Rangers Devils Buffalo Ottawa Toronto Atlanta That leaves the panthers with tampa, montreal, islanders and carolina to fight for the 8th spot. first of all - you listed new jersey twice. and while they have had a well-earned reputation as winners, you can't ignore losing brian rafalski and scott gomez. toronto and atlanta are extremely arguable. atlanta's defense is absolute trash. you can't really say one team is better than another anyway. would you have thought pittsburgh would make the jump they did by adding mark eaton and an unproven malkin? no one did. it's impossible to predict the impact vokoun could have on this team. teams that go one spending sprees rarely find success. just look at the coyotes last year.

Slava visited with the Dallas Stars today. At this point, I think it would cost way too much to sign him. I'm very happy with how our team is setup right now as it is. Remember, that Horton, Weiss, and Olesz should all increase scoring totals this year if their progression shines true. I'll be happy to see which young guy is hungry enough to join the Cats on the fourth line with Booth and Campbell. Smart money is on Sprukts or Kreps. Both guys are solid. Dark horse: Kendal Mccardle. I hope they keep him at AHL this year, though, so he can continue growing and gaining confidence. And maybe send Frolik there too if they deem him ready for that level. I'm guessing you're going to be happy with Dvorak on the second line, then? That's a pretty ballsy gamble, if you ask me. Slava could probably be had for what we have left. But I'm hearing the Stars are going to offer him 3 years at $12 mil. We probably wouldn't outbid them. Zednik is a second line player. lol. Dvorak will be on the third line with Mcclean and Olesz. We are still missing a second line player. The team right now (as is) probably is in the hunt for the 8th seed, but I am not sure if they make it. They were in the hunt for the 8th seed last year. And in every facet of the team they have improved. I'm not sure how you make that argument work. They may not be division title contenders (though, right now, the only way I see there being a real division contender is if Atlanta re-signs Slava...Tampa Bay is not a divisional contender until they get an actual goaltender and Carolina is walking perilously close to having too many older guys on their backline, especially. Washington will be more competitive but I don't think they have the defense to compete for the division. To me, it comes down to Atlanta and Florida if we are just looking at it on paper. Both teams, right now, have the best goaltending in the division followed closely by Washington. Now if our signings don't pan out than everything is out the window and yes, we likely compete for one of the lower seeds. Tampa is a threat just because of the firepower they have...but no one on that defense should scare anyone. I would say that we aren't missing a second line player in the least bit. The only one who was really worth it was Slava Kozlov and he's likely going to get over 4 million dollars a year. Panthers missed the playoffs by 6 points. However the problem is that there were several teams that missed by even less. So if you want to say the islanders didnt improve, well then the leafs did. Adding marginal players doesnt really make the panthers a better team. We havent made the playoffs since 99-2000, adding guys who score 30-40 points isnt really going to change that. the philosophy the panthers are taking is the right one IMO. this team has it's core in place. bouwmeester, jokinen, horton, weiss, and now vokoun. with a salary cap there are only so many "core" pieces you can afford to keep. if we went around and grossly overpaid for a drury or gomez, we wouldn't be able to afford bouwmeester or weiss. i'd rather give those two fair value than overpay drastically a drury or gomez. philly looks brilliant now, but what happens in a few years if jeff carter scores 40 and they have to trade him because overpaying for daniel briere (or timonen...or hartnell) keeps them from giving him the required big contract? they have alot of pressure to win now so they gave into the temptation. but that doesn't make it right. time and time again we see 90% of these deals backfire on GMs. but they keep doing it regardless. i would have liked for us to go after a nagy or a slava kozlov. but aside from that, i like the other additions alot. EDIT: take a look at this from july 2002: this offseason is playing out awfully similarly Bill Guerin signs with Dallas - 5 yrs, $45 mil Bobby Holik signs with NY Rangers - 5 yrs, $45 mil Curtis Joseph signs with Detroit - 3 yrs, $24 mil Ed Belfour signs with Toronto - 2 yrs, $13.5 mil Tony Amonte signs with Phoenix - 4 yrs, $24 mil Robert Lang signs with Washington - 5 yrs, $25 mil Darius Kasparaitis signs with NY Rangers - 6 yrs, $27 mil Theo Fleury signs with Colorado - 2 yrs, $8.5 mil Adam Oates signs with Anaheim - 1 yr, $3.5 mil Scott Young signs with Dallas - 2 yrs, $7 mil Luke Richardson signs with Columbus - 4 yrs, $11 mil Andrew Cassels signs with Columbus - 1 yrs, $2.6 mil Richard Smehlik signs with Atlanta - 3 yrs, $7.5 mil Philippe Boucher signs with Dallas - 4 yrs, $9.5 mil Randy McKay signs with Montreal - 2 yrs, $4.25 mil Scott Lachance signs with Columbus - 4 yrs, $8 mil there isn't one contract on that list aside from phillipe boucher's that can be considered even decent. you can say those aren't big names...well, they aren't now but they definatley were at the time. i think martin is going about things in the right way. the hope is to see continued improvement from the young guys and have the new faces chip in. the goaltending has been solidified, defense already was. offense seems the same...and while they werent barnburners last year, they were good enough to make the playoffs. we'll probably get more offense out of zednik/mclean/dvorak than we did out of gelinas/gratton/kolnik anyway. Those figures are pre-cap though. And while philly may have over paid for briere, the cap continues to increase. In a few years there will be room to pay for Carter. The bottom line is the panthers havent spent money on anyone in a long time, at the same time they havent made the playoffs in 7 years. Good players dont play for free, you have to pay them. And if it came down to it, I would take Drury or Gomez over Wiess. With the team the panthers currently have, the best they could probably do is the 7th or 8th seed. if i remember correctly - florida traded for tomas vokoun, who has a $5.7mil cap hit without dealing away any players. the cap continues to increase because revenues do as well. you don't build teams based around hypotheticals though. it's too risky. what does philly do if the cap does DOWN next year? what happens if NBC doesn't renew their contract with the NHL and the NHL is without a national broadcast deal? i would take gomez and drury of weiss as well - if they made the same salaries. but i wouldn't want either over weiss if they made $7.35 mil and weiss makes $3mil. also disagree about the panthers. they can finish anywhere as high as 3rd IMO. this division isn't that good and they're the only team (other than washington) who has made a significant addition.

Slava visited with the Dallas Stars today. At this point, I think it would cost way too much to sign him. I'm very happy with how our team is setup right now as it is. Remember, that Horton, Weiss, and Olesz should all increase scoring totals this year if their progression shines true. I'll be happy to see which young guy is hungry enough to join the Cats on the fourth line with Booth and Campbell. Smart money is on Sprukts or Kreps. Both guys are solid. Dark horse: Kendal Mccardle. I hope they keep him at AHL this year, though, so he can continue growing and gaining confidence. And maybe send Frolik there too if they deem him ready for that level. I'm guessing you're going to be happy with Dvorak on the second line, then? That's a pretty ballsy gamble, if you ask me. Slava could probably be had for what we have left. But I'm hearing the Stars are going to offer him 3 years at $12 mil. We probably wouldn't outbid them. Zednik is a second line player. lol. Dvorak will be on the third line with Mcclean and Olesz. We are still missing a second line player. The team right now (as is) probably is in the hunt for the 8th seed, but I am not sure if they make it. They were in the hunt for the 8th seed last year. And in every facet of the team they have improved. I'm not sure how you make that argument work. They may not be division title contenders (though, right now, the only way I see there being a real division contender is if Atlanta re-signs Slava...Tampa Bay is not a divisional contender until they get an actual goaltender and Carolina is walking perilously close to having too many older guys on their backline, especially. Washington will be more competitive but I don't think they have the defense to compete for the division. To me, it comes down to Atlanta and Florida if we are just looking at it on paper. Both teams, right now, have the best goaltending in the division followed closely by Washington. Now if our signings don't pan out than everything is out the window and yes, we likely compete for one of the lower seeds. Tampa is a threat just because of the firepower they have...but no one on that defense should scare anyone. I would say that we aren't missing a second line player in the least bit. The only one who was really worth it was Slava Kozlov and he's likely going to get over 4 million dollars a year. Panthers missed the playoffs by 6 points. However the problem is that there were several teams that missed by even less. So if you want to say the islanders didnt improve, well then the leafs did. Adding marginal players doesnt really make the panthers a better team. We havent made the playoffs since 99-2000, adding guys who score 30-40 points isnt really going to change that. the philosophy the panthers are taking is the right one IMO. this team has it's core in place. bouwmeester, jokinen, horton, weiss, and now vokoun. with a salary cap there are only so many "core" pieces you can afford to keep. if we went around and grossly overpaid for a drury or gomez, we wouldn't be able to afford bouwmeester or weiss. i'd rather give those two fair value than overpay drastically a drury or gomez. philly looks brilliant now, but what happens in a few years if jeff carter scores 40 and they have to trade him because overpaying for daniel briere (or timonen...or hartnell) keeps them from giving him the required big contract? they have alot of pressure to win now so they gave into the temptation. but that doesn't make it right. time and time again we see 90% of these deals backfire on GMs. but they keep doing it regardless. i would have liked for us to go after a nagy or a slava kozlov. but aside from that, i like the other additions alot. EDIT: take a look at this from july 2002: this offseason is playing out awfully similarly Bill Guerin signs with Dallas - 5 yrs, $45 mil Bobby Holik signs with NY Rangers - 5 yrs, $45 mil Curtis Joseph signs with Detroit - 3 yrs, $24 mil Ed Belfour signs with Toronto - 2 yrs, $13.5 mil Tony Amonte signs with Phoenix - 4 yrs, $24 mil Robert Lang signs with Washington - 5 yrs, $25 mil Darius Kasparaitis signs with NY Rangers - 6 yrs, $27 mil Theo Fleury signs with Colorado - 2 yrs, $8.5 mil Adam Oates signs with Anaheim - 1 yr, $3.5 mil Scott Young signs with Dallas - 2 yrs, $7 mil Luke Richardson signs with Columbus - 4 yrs, $11 mil Andrew Cassels signs with Columbus - 1 yrs, $2.6 mil Richard Smehlik signs with Atlanta - 3 yrs, $7.5 mil Philippe Boucher signs with Dallas - 4 yrs, $9.5 mil Randy McKay signs with Montreal - 2 yrs, $4.25 mil Scott Lachance signs with Columbus - 4 yrs, $8 mil there isn't one contract on that list aside from phillipe boucher's that can be considered even decent. you can say those aren't big names...well, they aren't now but they definatley were at the time. i think martin is going about things in the right way. the hope is to see continued improvement from the young guys and have the new faces chip in. the goaltending has been solidified, defense already was. offense seems the same...and while they werent barnburners last year, they were good enough to make the playoffs. we'll probably get more offense out of zednik/mclean/dvorak than we did out of gelinas/gratton/kolnik anyway.

Washington didn't exactly sit on their hands this offseason, and the Panthers problem last year wasn't goal-tending as Eddie was more than respectable. true, but as well as eddie played, he isn't at vokoun's level. belfour kept us in just about every game he played other than a handful. but vokoun can steal games for long stretches. he's closer to a luongo-caliber goaltender than you think. and even still, alex auld played in 25 games (potential 50 points in the standings) and he was a huge problem. a gigantic problem. catastrophic even. anything can happen, but on paper florida's goaltending is the biggest change in the SE division. washington added a couple of nice players in nylander and poti, but they lost zubrus (who they had last year). they have improved, but i dont think they've improved enough.

according to George Richards.....two year deal.

I can see the Panthers going after these guys: Todd White Slava Kozlov Jason Blake Possibly Ladislav Nagy, Mike Comrie, maybe even Radek Bonk. I am pretty sure that neither Petr Sykora or Alexei Yashin will be pursued by the Panthers. i'd think blake will be out of our range. 40 goals will likely price him at 5+ mil per season and that's not going to happen. i'm hoping for nagy, white and calder. btw- i could very easily see yashin brought here if stumpel does not re-sign or yashin comes cheaper. martin liked yashin in ottawa. yes, he was alot more productive then....but....it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

so who do everyone think the panthers will/should pursue in free agency? or is there another trade route we should be looking at? Martin has said he is going after "two to three" forwards. Defense, goaltending is 100% set. you'll likely see some guys actually traded away. Currently, the Panthers have nine defensmen (Bouwmeester, Van Ryn, Salei, Allen, Mezei, Murphy, Semenov, Montador, Welch). they'll probably have to get that down to 7 before camp ends. I'm guessing Monty and Semenov or Mezei will be out. They have the rights to three goalies as well - need to get that number to two - which means one of Auld or Anderson will be out. As far as who they may pursue - who knows really. Just don't expect too big of a name. IE: no Danny Briere or Chris Drury. They can't afford to invest another $6-8 mil annually in one guy after acquiring Vokoun. As it is, they're likely going to have $20mil locked up in four guys (Vokoun - $5.7 mil - Jokinen $5.25 mil, Horton $4mil and Bouwmeester will likely get $5+ mil). you can't commit over half your budget to five players. expect a second tier guy like nagy, slava kozlov, sykora, maybe even yashin and a third tier guy or two such as todd white. one if gelinas re-signs, two if he doesn't. i also expect stumpel to re-sign....but we'll see.

My take on the move is that Belfour was spectacular at times last year, but aging, this essentially ensures no dropoff in net to speak of. Go ahead and tell me I'll eat crow on this, but I don't think Vokoun is a marked upgrade over the play that the Panthers got from Eddie last season. What it does is add long term stability as Belfour would be real hard pressed to replicate his past season this coming season. It's a good move, but it has to pay off because next year's draft is expected to be very deep, so no first rounder next year means playoffs this coming year are a must. I think a move for a top-6 forward is a must. Bouwmeester should continue progressing and I'd assume Mezei to be back next season so the D isn't a problem, it's solid if unspectacular. To me, the biggest part is that Vokoun comes with a 4 year deal. That's what makes it a winner in my eyes. I think you'll be eating crow on that statement. Vokoun is a big upgrade over Eddie short term,long term and in any possible way you can look at it. Eddie had a good year last year that even if he duplicates(which I doubt) his numbers still won't be as good as what Vokoun did last year while struggling with injuries. Vokoun: 30 years old/.920 sv% Belfour: 42 years old/.902 sv% Those are the key stats from last year IMO. and fwiw: Luongo had a .921 sv%. last year. I love what we are doing on the defense, we will be very good and young. We have been young for years ,just not very good. Definitely need another top 2 line scoring forward though, maybe a Petr Sykora? Not big on Petr Sykora. He'd help - but I would prefer eithe Slava Kozlov or Ladislav Nagy. Kozlov had 80 points last year and likely won't cost what most 80 point scorers do. Many think he feeds off playing next to Kovalchuk but I think he's just a damn good player. Taking him away from Atlanta would just be icing on the cake. Nagy had a terrible year last year but he's one of the most skilled LW's in the league and is still pretty young (27 i think). He's come reasonably cheap because of the off season and to me, would be a perfect complement to Jokinen. As far as Vokoun/Eddie - completely agree. As well as Belfour played last year, you're comparing filet mignon to bologna. Vokoun is an elite goalie while Eddie is middle-of-the-pack at best....with age/health/off ice concerns. I'm not trying to diminish what Belfour did for this team. He saved our ass last year when Auld imploded. But he's not close to the goalie Vokoun is at this stage in their careers.

My take on the move is that Belfour was spectacular at times last year, but aging, this essentially ensures no dropoff in net to speak of. Go ahead and tell me I'll eat crow on this, but I don't think Vokoun is a marked upgrade over the play that the Panthers got from Eddie last season. What it does is add long term stability as Belfour would be real hard pressed to replicate his past season this coming season. It's a good move, but it has to pay off because next year's draft is expected to be very deep, so no first rounder next year means playoffs this coming year are a must. I think a move for a top-6 forward is a must. Bouwmeester should continue progressing and I'd assume Mezei to be back next season so the D isn't a problem, it's solid if unspectacular. To me, the biggest part is that Vokoun comes with a 4 year deal. That's what makes it a winner in my eyes. you'll be eating crow. as well as belfour played last year (and i'm a big fan of his) he's merely average compared to vokoun. vokoun is a borderline elite goalie. he really isn't far off luongo's caliber if at all. he's not nearly as flashy, but his rebound control is much better and he's every bit as consistent. he's easily a top-10 goalie. arguably a top-5 goalie. he's in the second tier of goalies with lundqvist, giguere, miller, etc. he's a better option than eddie anyway you slice it. goaltending was not the problem with this team when eddie played. not in any way, but vokoun (assuming he stays healthy) will play in 65-70 games at a higher level than eddie did and higher than auld could ever dream of. it's a huge, huge improvement over what we had last year. the only downside with vokoun has been his playoff performance. he hasn't been "bad" - just underwhelming. you expect a goalie of his caliber to steal you a series or two and he hasn't done that in his two years there. but we'll worry about that when the time comes......

Jacques Martin is my hero. Vokoun is every bit as good as Luongo - just less flashy. WAY TO GO MARTIN!!!!!!! :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

how long till uggla gets moved out of the 2-hole? what in the world is the league-leader in extra-base hits doing in the 2-slot? put hanley back at leadoff, let amezaga bat 2nd and have uggla in the meat of the order to help drive those two in. you'd have a bit of the castillo/pierre effect on the basepaths and hopefully you'd be adding another RBI machine down in the order. hanley amezaga cabrera willingham uggla hermida boone olivo (or olivo 7th and boone 8th...but i dont get why fredi keeps doing that, boone is the better hitter)

no idea how Armando is going to do - but this is a great deal just to get Messenger out of here. thank god i never have to see that clown in a Marlins uni ever again.

Gomes in CF???? :blink: maybe we should just put cabrera in center.....that's about what you'd be getting with gomes in center

I didn't watch the bottom of the 9th inning, but I was there for the rest of the game. The only two things I fault Gonzalez for tonight: 1. Starting Abercrombie 2. Handing Julio the baseball Although I can't say for sure, the fact that those two happened are perhaps more Beinfest's fault than anyone else's. the one thing i dont really fault him for is starting abercrombie. he is awful - but so is amezaga vs. lefthanded pitching, so...whatever. you were one of the many ripping girardi for his bullpen management last year so i'm sure you've heard me say it before...can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t no matter how much mayonnaise you put in it. whoever he put out to patrol center would have been just as bad as abercrombie. it's easy to second guess now that abercrombie ran through a maze to get to kearns' ISTPHR, but amezaga hasn't exactly been andruw jones out there either. Yeah my biggest problem with Fredi is that he doesn't give the impression that he even cares. What we need is to get John Boles back and just sit there and stare at everyone as they sit on the bench, and his massive owl-like eyes will scare the living @#$# out of them to play better. i remember watching the game vs. milwalkee that was resumed the next day in extras and thinking the same thing. the marlins players were CLEARLY swinging for the fences to end the game on a walk-off blast. any half-decent manager would have been in those players faces for doing it. instead, gonzalez just sits there looking like a deer in the headlights. needless to say, milwalkee won the game with a rally. anyway, i'm done ranting. fredi is going to have alot of work to do to get off my sh*t list.

you know, i didnt even get into alot of other things that are gonzalez' fault. his non-chalant attitude is ridiculous - especially when dealing with young players. yeah - sometimes you have to know when to lay off, but not to this extent. the message he keeps sending his players is it doesnt matter. and it obviously does. i was a fan of girardi's because i felt he was very good at mentally preparing this team to play ball. he got alot of criticism for his in-game management and i admit, it wasn't the best. but this team was ready to play each and every day. he kept the players level-headed through good and bad times. whether they were 11-31 or on a 9 game winning streak, they still played the game the way it should be played. under gonzalez, they are not. the slopiness is astounding. they look like a little league team at times. how many times have we seen guys run through stop signs and get thrown out at the plate? how many times have we seen awful defensive gaffes compared to last year? they arent mentally prepared to play. it's often a problem with young players, which in fredi's defense, we have alot of them, but this WAS NOT A PROBLEM LAST YEAR. add on top that his in-game decisions are JUST AS BAD - if not worse than girardi's and you've got yourself an absolutley awful manager. i'm up the wall with this clown already and we aren't even halfway through the season...god save me. i don't want to turn this into a girardi thread at ALL - that ship has sailed. but i think you're starting to see the inexperience in these players and alot of it is due to poor management. poor leadership. gonzalez is brutal in my book. he does absolutley nothing for this team. it's a little early to pass judgement, but so far, so bad for fredi.