miami-sports-geek

Do you guys know about the secret size at Starbucks? :shifty

That's the point....we are discussing ways to fix this problem. Frankly, its up to the fans first and foremost, to fix the problem. Those who love the team need to start spreading positive word of mouth, because its obvious the media isn't going to do it. No, its up the fans. Its too easy to blame the front office for all of the problems with the franchise. Agreed. I admit that I'm often guilty of seeing things in black and white, and in this case I might be. The fault cannot completely fall on the front office. Some things are just out of their hands. I've tried my best to spread my love of this team to other people. Hey, if this helps, my friend has always been a HUGE Carlos Delgado fan, so naturally, he's been a Mets fan these past few years. When the Marlins eliminated them this year, first person I text is him. Guess what he writes back? "F*** the Mets. I'm a Marlins fan now." :disco

Marketing? Seriously? This is baseball. If people like baseball, they would be going to games. No amount of marketing is going to make them like something that they have no interest in. Again, there are several places in this country that would support this team, no strings attached. Why do you people think South Florida fans need some kind of special treatment from the franchise? Seriously, it sounds very weak. Fans should come expecting baseball, not a friggin circus....but with the higher attendance on the Super Saturdays, maybe fans are just more interesting in a circus-like event than baseball... I can only speak for myself when I say that I go to games expecting MUCH more than just baseball. If I wanted JUST baseball, I could very well just organize a watch party with a ton of friends at Shula's or something. If I wanted JUST baseball, I would go to a local high school game. Heck, if I wanted JUST baseball, I'd stay home and watch it on the tube, with the convenience of a close bathroom, great view, and free price tag. And if you think other fans in other teams go to games JUST for baseball, I think you oughta travel around the nation so you can see the various marketing ploys that are being used to help drive attendance. The Marlins also have their own ways, too. If they didn't, I wouldn't go to the games. Why support a private enterprise that claims to be a representation of my community without getting value in return? Nothing personal. It's just business. South Florida fans and any fans of a team that will or have gotten a stadium funded by tax-payer dollars DO deserve special treatment. I'm at a loss for words. How, if we're funding a private business, do we NOT deserve special treatment? :blink: I'm pretty sure you are the average Florida sports fan. There are MANY other cities that don't need to use marketing ploys to get fans in the seats. Infact, being a fan should automatically mean you are there to watch the team, and not some sideshow. Our tax dollars are giving us special treatment. Its not like every city in the US has a major league team. We get to be entertained 81 days a year in the stadium, and 162 days a year no matter what (ya ya i know all games aren't televised). I would rather my tax dollars be spent this way than the other 10000 ways they seem to find. At least now I will be able to have a destination I can my future kids to. Show them the game at the highest level. Who doesn't remember their first ballgame? We are talking about building lifelong memories. Honestly...do you really need a handjob while watching the game to be happy? You are right, there are MANY other teams that don't need creative marketing to fill the seats. But those MANY other teams are franchises that have been established longer than our team or probably do not have the bad rep the Marlins have of not committing to players. All this complaining ABOUT the problem is useless. "WAH WAH SOUTH FLORIDA DOESN'T DESERVE THIS TEAM WAH WAH THE FANS SUCK WAH WAH". Where is the complaining getting us? You are no different than the remarks at the end of Marlin highlights on ESPN about how no one was there to see the game. Why don't you just ACCEPT that there is a problem and spend your time doing something more productive, that is, analyzing the problem and finding SOLUTIONS. And this is not directed specifically at you Squall, it's directed to everyone.

Thanks, and can you please post a link to the Braman interview?

Marketing? Seriously? This is baseball. If people like baseball, they would be going to games. No amount of marketing is going to make them like something that they have no interest in. Again, there are several places in this country that would support this team, no strings attached. Why do you people think South Florida fans need some kind of special treatment from the franchise? Seriously, it sounds very weak. Fans should come expecting baseball, not a friggin circus....but with the higher attendance on the Super Saturdays, maybe fans are just more interesting in a circus-like event than baseball... I can only speak for myself when I say that I go to games expecting MUCH more than just baseball. If I wanted JUST baseball, I could very well just organize a watch party with a ton of friends at Shula's or something. If I wanted JUST baseball, I would go to a local high school game. Heck, if I wanted JUST baseball, I'd stay home and watch it on the tube, with the convenience of a close bathroom, great view, and free price tag. And if you think other fans in other teams go to games JUST for baseball, I think you oughta travel around the nation so you can see the various marketing ploys that are being used to help drive attendance. The Marlins also have their own ways, too. If they didn't, I wouldn't go to the games. Why support a private enterprise that claims to be a representation of my community without getting value in return? Nothing personal. It's just business. South Florida fans and any fans of a team that will or have gotten a stadium funded by tax-payer dollars DO deserve special treatment. I'm at a loss for words. How, if we're funding a private business, do we NOT deserve special treatment? :blink:

I give the series to the Rays. They have the better pitching. The offenses should equalize since the Rays are playing at home.

Btw...this is just a sh*tty sports town, in general. Did anyone see all the empty seats at Dolphin Stadium today? Considering the Dolphins were coming off an impressive road win against the Patriots, and a good Charger team was coming to town...that, too, was inexcusable. The Dolphins are #1 in this town...and they don't sellout all the time, either, for a sport that is played once every other week, at home. You couldn't be more wrong Erick. Miami is a great sports city. In fact, they are one of only 13 cities in the U.S. to have all four major sports teams. The Dolphins always have been, and still are one of the most popular teams in the NFL. As for yesterday, it was pouring outside, which probably kept many people from going, even if they already had bought tickets. People that went on Saturday to the FSU-UM game and got soaked especially didn't want to go (like me), because they didn't want to go through the same thing all over again. As for recent games, the Dolphins haven't been to the playoffs for a while now, and have been predicted to finish with a horrible season for the past few years. That might explain their numbers. The Marlins have dismal attendance, yet most of us know that their TV ratings are through the roof. They ranked 7th out of 30 in the MLB this past season, and weren't even all that great. I think that once they get their new stadium (which will save heat strokes, rain delays, neck problems, etc.), their attendance numbers will soar, and they will be near the middle of the pack in the MLB in terms of attendance. The Marlins have fans. Not all of them show up for the games (partially because the Marlins have many fans in North Florida), but they still have many of them. I dont think I really need to discuss the Heat. Sure the Heat fans might be front runners, but they are always nationally televised, and they have been rankes in the Top 5 in attendance numbers the past three or four years. The Pantehrs haven't been a great team for a long time, yet they still managed to finish 24th out of 30 in the NHL in attendance. If you add in the price of tickets combined with the average attendance, then the Panthers are in the Top 20. Not to mention, that they finished 18th out of 30 last season in TV ratings. These numbers aren't so bad, and the Panthers weren't even good last year. Think of what those numbers would be if they were a playoff caliber team for a few years in a row. One more reason why you might think South Florida is a lousy sports town, is because three of the four franchises in Miami are relatively new. Besides the Dolphins, the oldest franchise in South Florida is the Miami Heat, and they weren't founded until 1988. Most of Miami's sports fans are still cheering for other teams (especially baseball). Miami's teams might not be all that great, but this city is definitely a great sports city. Excellent points! The franchises here are young. The people that grew up with them are in their 20s. When those people start having kids, attendance will boom. A lot of us are in college right now and pretty much broke so we can't really afford the games. But trust me, we're coming, and we're gonna make noise. :cool

The Marlins marketing has been pretty bad, IMO. Now, I don't know what kind of budget they have, but there are some things that I can definitely say they have underperformed in. One is the website. Have you been to the Marlins' website? It's a sprawling mess with a soup of colors from silver to orange to black to teal to white. That is unattractive. Go look at the websites of the Miami Heat and Miami Dolphins. Those people know how to cater to an evolving fan base, namely an online one. The articles are good, Joe Fisaro is a knowledgeable person, so I give him the quality tag. But just like winning isn't the only ingredient to a successful franchise, good articles aren't the only pieces of a good website. I can write great literature and slap it on Blogspot, but if I basically use the default layout that Blogspot gives me, I'm not gonna get a lot of readers. The second thing is the colors. They are pretty cliche (white with thin pin stripes?). And I know that they integrated orange into the mix, but my goodness, do these people have any artistic sense? You've gotta build identity, and having a million different colors isn't the way to go. Teal was a great color, it's an identity-builder because no other team in MLB used it. You saw teal, you saw the Marlins. Also, change up the logo for once. It's grown stale. You live in a fashion town, give the people fashionable items. I wanted to mention something else, but I forgot what it was. So people don't go to the games because the Marlins have a terrible web site and their uniforms are ugly. Because the list is so long I'm going to have to double check, but I do believe you have just added two new excuses. Congratulations. They are lame and easily torn to shreds, but that's why they are excuses and not reasons. And when you remember that other thing please pass it along. You may get a hat trick. First off, if I've said anything to offend you please let me know. I just don't understand the reason for the sarcastic tone you've assumed in your reply to my post. Second, these are my opinions and are far from legitimacy. These are extremely generalized ideas. I like to present solutions to problems rather than bicker about the problem itself or shoot down others attempts at solutions without presenting a solution myself. So if you have any ideas I'd like to read them. I'm very interested in this topic.

Btw...this is just a sh*tty sports town, in general. Did anyone see all the empty seats at Dolphin Stadium today? Considering the Dolphins were coming off an impressive road win against the Patriots, and a good Charger team was coming to town...that, too, was inexcusable. The Dolphins are #1 in this town...and they don't sellout all the time, either, for a sport that is played once every other week, at home. Dude, you are totally right. Miami is a difficult place for sports as entertainment venues. The question is why. My dad always tells me that it's because people would prefer to go to the beach. It's A LOT cheaper than attending a game. In most other cities (namely the football towns such as Green Bay), the beach isn't really an option. There's not much else to do except go to a sporting event. I always counter-argue with him "Won't people get tired of going to the beach?" And the answer is probably yeah, but for every time they go to a sporting event the average person here goes to the beach 3 or 4 times. When they're paying for that $6 hot dog they remember how much they love the beach.

Win-Loss record. :| That is so Nineties...

'ow 'bout dem Dolphins?

The Marlins marketing has been pretty bad, IMO. Now, I don't know what kind of budget they have, but there are some things that I can definitely say they have underperformed in. One is the website. Have you been to the Marlins' website? It's a sprawling mess with a soup of colors from silver to orange to black to teal to white. That is unattractive. Go look at the websites of the Miami Heat and Miami Dolphins. Those people know how to cater to an evolving fan base, namely an online one. The articles are good, Joe Fisaro is a knowledgeable person, so I give him the quality tag. But just like winning isn't the only ingredient to a successful franchise, good articles aren't the only pieces of a good website. I can write great literature and slap it on Blogspot, but if I basically use the default layout that Blogspot gives me, I'm not gonna get a lot of readers. The second thing is the colors. They are pretty cliche (white with thin pin stripes?). And I know that they integrated orange into the mix, but my goodness, do these people have any artistic sense? You've gotta build identity, and having a million different colors isn't the way to go. Teal was a great color, it's an identity-builder because no other team in MLB used it. You saw teal, you saw the Marlins. Also, change up the logo for once. It's grown stale. You live in a fashion town, give the people fashionable items. I wanted to mention something else, but I forgot what it was.

Tell me how well he controls the offense and how tough he is on D and I'll tell you what I think 'bout him. :hat Tell me what's holding his knee together and I'll tell you if he's worth getting excited over. You can add his request to mine as well, ladies and gentlemen. :mis2

You should start pondering what you're gonna wear beneath that. Tough call, not many options. White would be the easy way out. :mis2

I don't mean healthy as in attendance. I mean healthy as in heading in the right direction in player development and building the roster. As for the relationship with the local community...I'm not sure I am following you there. I mean, what exactly aren't the Marlins providing? Are they supposed to walk around downtown Miami and campaign like a politician so that people will like them? I'm not sure what you mean. This is the first ownership in a while that has been truly committed and has fought the hardest to keep this team in south Florida. I think that in itself is pretty telling. What do you want them to do? I want them to keep around players for a period in excess of 5 years. I think that's why so many locals give up on this franchise, because it's so transient, which is ironic considering the nature of Floridian residents. But yeah, I think what people don't like is that they see these 'fire sales' as a lack of dedication to consistent winning. And can you blame them? I mean, yeah, when you dig deeper I guess you can argue that they do build in the right direction and the goals of those fire sales are based on future winning. But the locals aren't patient enough to follow that management model. Who am I to judge them? I mean, this is a business, not some NECESSARY community thing. It's THEIR money, they can spend it as they wish. I'm afraid the Marlins, right now, are not something the locals feel is worthy of their investment. The good news is that that can change, and I think it will if all things go well, such as being competitive at the time of the stadium opening and revenues increase (which I'm assuming will happen). Until then, it's a wait and see game. Yeah, we may win a World Series in the next 3 years, but what will that change? Again, it's not just about winning, it's also about keeping around faces. On-field success is but one of the variables in the equation for a successful franchise.

Winning and having a healthy franchise is all that should matter to fans. If people in South Florida can't appreciate that, then they don't deserve a team. Yeah, I was pissed off when they dealt Miguel Cabrera. But now that I reflect on it, I ask myself why I was pissed off about that and really there wasn't a good reason, because the team seems to be just as healthy without him. Oh boy, we have a HEALTHY franchise? I think not, my friend. Listen, I totally feel you, I also suffer because of the problem at hand, but I'm gonna be real about it. There is not much of a relationship between this franchise and the local community, and that's the franchise's fault. I'd write a book discussing the nuances of this reason, but I'm afraid that there is not much incentive for me. I don't get THAT much of a kick from proving why I'm right or hearing myself talk.

Building a relationship with fans doesn't happen overnight. The organization has to have credibility, which the Marlins do not, given their history of breaking up teams, and though they may have a 'plan' right now, the fruits of it need come about before people feel safe trusting this organization (and even then, the people will still hesitate with good reason). No matter what valid points and fine rhetoric we spew out here on this message board, the reality is that the market the Marlins are dealing with needs familiar faces in order to feel a connection, and those faces become the image of the franchise in the minds of the people. That's just how it works, guys. The whole 'cheer for the team not for the player' is not something the Marlins are in position to do right now. That's not gonna sell tickets. Consistency will. Winning is not the only ingredient when it comes to ticket sales (we saw that this year); you need to have a group that people have become familiar with, to build an emotional bond with customers. The Marlins have done a terrible job in building this emotional bond; heck, I might say they haven't tried. The marketing has also been pretty sloppy over the years.

Tell me how well he controls the offense and how tough he is on D and I'll tell you what I think 'bout him. :hat

Managers provide leadership more than anything. We outsiders tend to think that they're hired mainly for game management, but that's not true. They're hired mainly to bring cohesion to the group of players. I'm sure most of us here could handle the strategy and game theory aspect of the game very well, but I'm more than sure that 99% of us would not handle well the 'personalities' and what-not in the locker-room and behind the scenes. I may sometimes like to think of performance not being influenced by emotions, but suppose a guy is very angry one day, and he's up to bat. All he needs is a hit yet he wants to launch the ball into space, and he strikes out. A manager is able to handle this situation before letting it arise. It's called 'people skills'.

Nny, would you mind explaining to me the logic behind using such numbers as .3 .5 and .7 for figuring out run amounts? Were these calculated or arbitrary (why not use .6 instead of .7)? And thanks so much for doing this, I think it's really interesting!

Guys, if we're gonna win, it won't be with Cody. I know it hurts knowing how awesome it is to hear chants of CODY CODY CODY at the games, but this is the truth. He is replaceable. There are better players out there.

What, are only the announcers for large-market teams supposed to have homerish announcers? Oh, I get it, since only the New Yorks, the Bostons, the LAs make it to ESPN, it's nice to hear the voice of the home announcer while Baseball Tonight is showing highlights of their games. Can you imagine ESPN showing highlights of the Marlins stomping the Mets while Tommy utters a HOORAH? Scandelous!

LET"S DO IT FISHIES!!! OUT WITH A BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :devil

What crisp textures! :w00t Thanks, dude

ABSOLUTELY AGREE! This has been a very UNEXPECTED but, VERY SUCCESSFUL season! Lets hope Loria does NOT do what we are all expecting----dump some players rather then paying them.Because, if he keeps doing that, he will have a new, very beautiful and, VERY EMPTY retractable roof stadium! Its time to build a franchise WITH that new stadium! What if you can improve the team by trading away players? Just because fans like a player and the front office gets rid if them, doesn't make it a bad move. Fans need to be fans of the Florida Marlins and not individual players. As long as they are a competitive ball club, it shouldn't matter who comes and goes. Hey, I've ALWAYS preached this, so I'm with you. But at this stage in the life of the franchise, given the poor job the marketing department has done to develop the brand, you've gotta do anything to create revenue, even if that means advertising individuals. I'm hopeful that around the opening of the new park and new team colors and uniforms, etc. that they will take a more team-first approach to their marketing. I've always wanted to see them use no names on the back of their jerseys for home games. When the new uniforms are released, people are gonna wanna buy new jerseys anyway.