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Will the "fan base" ever get it?


LordMagnus
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I am frustrated.

 

I am already hearing about how the Marlins are going to have "another firesale".

 

How the cheap owner is going to break up the team.

 

How the fans are disgusted and will never trust ownership.

 

The national media and the local media peddle this crap out to the masses who consume it.

 

I'm really sick of it. I used to believe it myself, but then I slowly began to look at this situation objectively. And what I realize is that...HOLY CRAP...the front office actually has A PLAN.

 

I just wish people were smart enough to see what is going on here. Its quite brilliant, really. But the only way the sports media seems to give credibility is if you sign those big, overpriced and risky free agents. And without media credibility, the local fans seem very hesitant to respond and come out to games and support the team.

 

When will people realize that there is more than one way to build a franchise?

 

Why is trading players always a bad thing? Why are people so obsessed with these players anyhow? You should be a fan of the Marlins, not the guys who play for the team.

 

I really just don't know what else to say. Looks like its going to be up to us to try and spread a positive word about what is about to happen, because you just know the media is going to spin this negatively.

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It's about time someone realizes the truth...the Marlins are doing a fantastic job organizing a competitive team without overpaying any of their athletes. This team is one of the smartest in managing their payroll meanwhile still fielding a quality team. People need to stop bit**ing about how we trade away players. Look at the players we're trading away...Uggla who I still believe is way over-rated considering his avg and K's...(WOW!!! He can hit 30 HR's!!!! He can't drive in the run from 2nd when it really matters)...Jacobs who was at one point one of my favorite Marlins but we don't need him and his weak AVG at all...and Hermida...God knows when he's gonna start getting his sh*t together and start playing to his full potential...I have no problem trading away these players knowing we have young studs in the minors who can easily fill the void while still getting quality players back in return for these trades.

 

People need to stop bitching about these trades and start getting excited about the best rotation in the majors we're gonna have...

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Building a relationship with fans doesn't happen overnight. The organization has to have credibility, which the Marlins do not, given their history of breaking up teams, and though they may have a 'plan' right now, the fruits of it need come about before people feel safe trusting this organization (and even then, the people will still hesitate with good reason). No matter what valid points and fine rhetoric we spew out here on this message board, the reality is that the market the Marlins are dealing with needs familiar faces in order to feel a connection, and those faces become the image of the franchise in the minds of the people. That's just how it works, guys. The whole 'cheer for the team not for the player' is not something the Marlins are in position to do right now. That's not gonna sell tickets. Consistency will. Winning is not the only ingredient when it comes to ticket sales (we saw that this year); you need to have a group that people have become familiar with, to build an emotional bond with customers. The Marlins have done a terrible job in building this emotional bond; heck, I might say they haven't tried. The marketing has also been pretty sloppy over the years.

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Winning and having a healthy franchise is all that should matter to fans. If people in South Florida can't appreciate that, then they don't deserve a team. Yeah, I was pissed off when they dealt Miguel Cabrera. But now that I reflect on it, I ask myself why I was pissed off about that and really there wasn't a good reason, because the team seems to be just as healthy without him.

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It's about time someone realizes the truth...the Marlins are doing a fantastic job organizing a competitive team without overpaying any of their athletes. This team is one of the smartest in managing their payroll meanwhile still fielding a quality team. People need to stop bit**ing about how we trade away players. Look at the players we're trading away...Uggla who I still believe is way over-rated considering his avg and K's...(WOW!!! He can hit 30 HR's!!!! He can't drive in the run from 2nd when it really matters)...Jacobs who was at one point one of my favorite Marlins but we don't need him and his weak AVG at all...and Hermida...God knows when he's gonna start getting his sh*t together and start playing to his full potential...I have no problem trading away these players knowing we have young studs in the minors who can easily fill the void while still getting quality players back in return for these trades.

 

People need to stop bitching about these trades and start getting excited about the best rotation in the majors we're gonna have...

 

Uggla isnt over rated

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Winning and having a healthy franchise is all that should matter to fans. If people in South Florida can't appreciate that, then they don't deserve a team. Yeah, I was pissed off when they dealt Miguel Cabrera. But now that I reflect on it, I ask myself why I was pissed off about that and really there wasn't a good reason, because the team seems to be just as healthy without him.

 

Oh boy, we have a HEALTHY franchise? I think not, my friend. Listen, I totally feel you, I also suffer because of the problem at hand, but I'm gonna be real about it. There is not much of a relationship between this franchise and the local community, and that's the franchise's fault. I'd write a book discussing the nuances of this reason, but I'm afraid that there is not much incentive for me. I don't get THAT much of a kick from proving why I'm right or hearing myself talk.

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I don't mean healthy as in attendance. I mean healthy as in heading in the right direction in player development and building the roster. As for the relationship with the local community...I'm not sure I am following you there. I mean, what exactly aren't the Marlins providing? Are they supposed to walk around downtown Miami and campaign like a politician so that people will like them? I'm not sure what you mean. This is the first ownership in a while that has been truly committed and has fought the hardest to keep this team in south Florida. I think that in itself is pretty telling. What do you want them to do?

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I am already hearing about how the Marlins are going to have "another firesale".

 

How the cheap owner is going to break up the team.

 

How the fans are disgusted and will never trust ownership.

 

When will people realize that there is more than one way to build a franchise?

 

These should be in the same sentence.

In Lorias eyes, there is only one way, trade&build and repeat it.

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I don't mean healthy as in attendance. I mean healthy as in heading in the right direction in player development and building the roster. As for the relationship with the local community...I'm not sure I am following you there. I mean, what exactly aren't the Marlins providing? Are they supposed to walk around downtown Miami and campaign like a politician so that people will like them? I'm not sure what you mean. This is the first ownership in a while that has been truly committed and has fought the hardest to keep this team in south Florida. I think that in itself is pretty telling. What do you want them to do?

 

I want them to keep around players for a period in excess of 5 years. I think that's why so many locals give up on this franchise, because it's so transient, which is ironic considering the nature of Floridian residents. But yeah, I think what people don't like is that they see these 'fire sales' as a lack of dedication to consistent winning. And can you blame them? I mean, yeah, when you dig deeper I guess you can argue that they do build in the right direction and the goals of those fire sales are based on future winning. But the locals aren't patient enough to follow that management model. Who am I to judge them? I mean, this is a business, not some NECESSARY community thing. It's THEIR money, they can spend it as they wish. I'm afraid the Marlins, right now, are not something the locals feel is worthy of their investment. The good news is that that can change, and I think it will if all things go well, such as being competitive at the time of the stadium opening and revenues increase (which I'm assuming will happen). Until then, it's a wait and see game. Yeah, we may win a World Series in the next 3 years, but what will that change? Again, it's not just about winning, it's also about keeping around faces. On-field success is but one of the variables in the equation for a successful franchise.

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It's about time someone realizes the truth...the Marlins are doing a fantastic job organizing a competitive team without overpaying any of their athletes. This team is one of the smartest in managing their payroll meanwhile still fielding a quality team. People need to stop bit**ing about how we trade away players. Look at the players we're trading away...Uggla who I still believe is way over-rated considering his avg and K's...(WOW!!! He can hit 30 HR's!!!! He can't drive in the run from 2nd when it really matters)...Jacobs who was at one point one of my favorite Marlins but we don't need him and his weak AVG at all...and Hermida...God knows when he's gonna start getting his sh*t together and start playing to his full potential...I have no problem trading away these players knowing we have young studs in the minors who can easily fill the void while still getting quality players back in return for these trades.

 

People need to stop bitching about these trades and start getting excited about the best rotation in the majors we're gonna have...

 

You are just as guilty as the media, last i check, Uggla, Jacobs and Hermida, are still with the Marlins, so you are doing the same thing, and last i remember, i may be wrong but the players are the team.

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It's about time someone realizes the truth...the Marlins are doing a fantastic job organizing a competitive team without overpaying any of their athletes. This team is one of the smartest in managing their payroll meanwhile still fielding a quality team. People need to stop bit**ing about how we trade away players. Look at the players we're trading away...Uggla who I still believe is way over-rated considering his avg and K's...(WOW!!! He can hit 30 HR's!!!! He can't drive in the run from 2nd when it really matters)...Jacobs who was at one point one of my favorite Marlins but we don't need him and his weak AVG at all...and Hermida...God knows when he's gonna start getting his sh*t together and start playing to his full potential...I have no problem trading away these players knowing we have young studs in the minors who can easily fill the void while still getting quality players back in return for these trades.

 

People need to stop bitching about these trades and start getting excited about the best rotation in the majors we're gonna have...

 

i may be wrong but the players are the team.

 

That's because you are wrong. The Marlins will exist, with or without these players. Players come and go, but the franchise remains.

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It's about time someone realizes the truth...the Marlins are doing a fantastic job organizing a competitive team without overpaying any of their athletes. This team is one of the smartest in managing their payroll meanwhile still fielding a quality team. People need to stop bit**ing about how we trade away players. Look at the players we're trading away...Uggla who I still believe is way over-rated considering his avg and K's...(WOW!!! He can hit 30 HR's!!!! He can't drive in the run from 2nd when it really matters)...Jacobs who was at one point one of my favorite Marlins but we don't need him and his weak AVG at all...and Hermida...God knows when he's gonna start getting his sh*t together and start playing to his full potential...I have no problem trading away these players knowing we have young studs in the minors who can easily fill the void while still getting quality players back in return for these trades.

 

People need to stop bitching about these trades and start getting excited about the best rotation in the majors we're gonna have...

 

i may be wrong but the players are the team.

 

That's because you are wrong. The Marlins will exist, with or without these players. Players come and go, but the franchise remains.

 

Exactly, I'm a Marlins fan not an Uggla fan or a Hermida fan...but most of our "fan base" isn't like that.

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I have no problem the way Loria runs this team. People seem to forget that the Marlins had 2 minor collapses that made them miss the playoffs in 2004 and 2005. They seem to forget when we had a missing piece at 1B he went out and signed big FA Carlos Delgado.

 

The "fire sale" after 2005 was exactly what he said it was, a market correction. Thanks to not having a stadium that team was doing nothing but losing money and not missing the playoffs. The Miggie trade was something that had to be done, as he was going to be gone from this team in 2 years and we were going to be stuck with a couple draft picks and nothing else.

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Am I the only one who believes the marlins have a lot more fan that it seems? I know game attendance is low but tv ratings are good and I saw games being watched at a lot of bars this past season. People were talking about the team etc.

We have ninja fans.

 

:ninja That's right we're stealthy!

 

As for the FO. I don't really care how long they keep players as long as they make smart decisions. I kind of like talking about roster moves and budget constraints. It makes it interesting as a fan. Some years are good and some are not but it's cool to watch the team evolve. It's a roller coaster for sure but roller coasters are fun. I think its boring to watch the Yankees roll out the same overpayed players year after year and when they have a need just go out and buy a replacement. How fun is that?

 

And by the way, my loyalty is to the team not necessarily the players. Do you think I root for Josh Beckett or Derek Lee or any of the other hundreds of ex-Marlins? Hell no!

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The problem is, most people just want to trust what the media says. If the media predicts that the Marlins will have a terrible season, like they did for this one, then the Marlins won't sell any tickets (season tickets especially.) In order to get on the media's side, you need to go out and sign the big name players, otherwise your team is never mentioned.

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Am I the only one who believes the marlins have a lot more fan that it seems? I know game attendance is low but tv ratings are good and I saw games being watched at a lot of bars this past season. People were talking about the team etc.

We have ninja fans.

 

:ninja That's right we're stealthy!

 

As for the FO. I don't really care how long they keep players as long as they make smart decisions. I kind of like talking about roster moves and budget constraints. It makes it interesting as a fan. Some years are good and some are not but it's cool to watch the team evolve. It's a roller coaster for sure but roller coasters are fun. I think its boring to watch the Yankees roll out the same overpayed players year after year and when they have a need just go out and buy a replacement. How fun is that?

And by the way, my loyalty is to the team not necessarily the players. Do you think I root for Josh Beckett or Derek Lee or any of the other hundreds of ex-Marlins? Hell no!

 

I dont know about you, but I would love it if the marlins made the playoffs 13 years in a row. I, for one, do not think thats boring.

 

I do think its interesting how the marlins come out of no where year after year. The problem is that as soon as a player becomes a household name, he gets shipped away for another prospect. When expectations are so low every year, it gets tough to get the fans excited. Most franchises try and aquire players in the offseason which energizes their fan bases. The marlins on the other hand let players go which douses any energy they had from the previous year.

 

Just look at the mets and marlins. The marlins traded away their two biggest stars in the offseason, while the mets added their biggest in Santana. At the end of the season both teams ended up missing the playoffs. However, throughout the season and offseason the Mets had big crowds, media coverage and optimism, while the marlins didnt have anything. I dont know whats right or wrong, but getting rid of your players every offseason is a let down.

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Last i ckeck a team is A number of people working together on a common task, also, A group forming on a side in a game,

Please explain to me The Marlins playing in MLB with out players, so i say players are a team,

 

And as i say i can't remember the trades with UGGLA, JACOBS and HERMIDA>

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So this thread is about complaining about how people think and that they dislike firesales? Yeah, that sounds like a winning strategy - Tell the fans they are wrong. People are people, and they connect with people. Every fan will inevitably have their favorite player, and they're obviously more likely to make their favorites out of Hanley, Cabrera, Mike Lowell, JP, Uggla, Luis Castillo, and Dontrelle. When we trade them away, its understandable that it ill turn off some fans. Especially if they trade all your favorites. Even worse when those trades bring the team back nothing (like Castillo for Travis Bowyer). Not that any of this should be relevant, because there shouldn't be such a big firesale anyway. I only expect 3 starting players to be gone.

 

It's about time someone realizes the truth...the Marlins are doing a fantastic job organizing a competitive team without overpaying any of their athletes. This team is one of the smartest in managing their payroll meanwhile still fielding a quality team. People need to stop bit**ing about how we trade away players. Look at the players we're trading away...Uggla who I still believe is way over-rated considering his avg and K's...(WOW!!! He can hit 30 HR's!!!! He can't drive in the run from 2nd when it really matters)...Jacobs who was at one point one of my favorite Marlins but we don't need him and his weak AVG at all...and Hermida...God knows when he's gonna start getting his sh*t together and start playing to his full potential...I have no problem trading away these players knowing we have young studs in the minors who can easily fill the void while still getting quality players back in return for these trades.

 

People need to stop bitching about these trades and start getting excited about the best rotation in the majors we're gonna have...

It would be great if your opinion on Uggla though had some basis in reality:

#1 Bringing the run in from 2nd or 3rd ALWAYS really matters. Just think July 4th if you don't see that.

#2 Dan Uggla had THE HIGHEST OBP with RISP among all Marlins who played the full season (417). How can you condemn Uggla for failing to d something at which he was the best player on the team all season?

 

I'm fine with trading Jacobs and Hermida (among one or two others), but this hate on Uggla and the desire to trade just continues to confuse me. He even had a higher OBP this season than Cabrera. The obsession of some on stuff like batting avg and Ks makes me believe that those among you would be calling to trade off Ryan Howard if he was on our team.

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Yeah, that sounds like a winning strategy - Tell the fans they are wrong. People are people, and they connect with people. Every fan will inevitably have their favorite player, and they're obviously more likely to make their favorites out of Hanley, Cabrera, Mike Lowell, JP, Uggla, Luis Castillo, and Dontrelle. When we trade them away, its understandable that it ill turn off some fans. Especially if they trade all your favorites. Even worse when those trades bring the team back nothing (like Castillo for Travis Bowyer). Not that any of this should be relevant, because there shouldn't be such a big firesale anyway. I only expect 3 starting players to be gone.

 

It's about time someone realizes the truth...the Marlins are doing a fantastic job organizing a competitive team without overpaying any of their athletes. This team is one of the smartest in managing their payroll meanwhile still fielding a quality team. People need to stop bit**ing about how we trade away players. Look at the players we're trading away...Uggla who I still believe is way over-rated considering his avg and K's...(WOW!!! He can hit 30 HR's!!!! He can't drive in the run from 2nd when it really matters)...Jacobs who was at one point one of my favorite Marlins but we don't need him and his weak AVG at all...and Hermida...God knows when he's gonna start getting his sh*t together and start playing to his full potential...I have no problem trading away these players knowing we have young studs in the minors who can easily fill the void while still getting quality players back in return for these trades.

 

People need to stop bitching about these trades and start getting excited about the best rotation in the majors we're gonna have...

It would be great if your opinion on Uggla though had some basis in reality:

#1 Bringing the run in from 2nd or 3rd ALWAYS really matters. Just think July 4th if you don't see that.

#2 Dan Uggla had THE HIGHEST OBP with RISP among all Marlins who played the full season (417). How can you condemn Uggla for failing to d something at which he was the best player on the team all season?

 

I'm fine with trading Jacobs and Hermida (among one or two others), but this hate on Uggla and the desire to trade just continues to confuse me. He even had a higher OBP this season than Cabrera. The obsession of some on stuff like batting avg and Ks makes me believe that those among you would be calling to trade off Ryan Howard if he was on our team.

or

 

But the "fans" ARE WRONG. And the only reason they believe this crap is because its peddled to them by the media. Its okay to be disappointed that a player you like leaves the franchise, but to rant against it just because it happened IS NOT okay. If the people in South Florida think that the Marlins owe them something, or that the Marlins have to hold their hand and buy them ice cream and be their friend, then they are dearly wrong. It is that kind of pansy attitude that I hate. Miami has a MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL FRANCHISE. Do you know how special that is? The Marlins have won two world championships. They have done far more for the people in this area than what you give them credit for. They have won. They have given us great memories that we will never forget. They have given us something fun and something to love. THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS. If South Florida thinks that the Marlins owe them anything else, THEY ARE WRONG. There's plenty of areas in America that would support this team with no strings attached.

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Yeah, that sounds like a winning strategy - Tell the fans they are wrong. People are people, and they connect with people. Every fan will inevitably have their favorite player, and they're obviously more likely to make their favorites out of Hanley, Cabrera, Mike Lowell, JP, Uggla, Luis Castillo, and Dontrelle. When we trade them away, its understandable that it ill turn off some fans. Especially if they trade all your favorites. Even worse when those trades bring the team back nothing (like Castillo for Travis Bowyer). Not that any of this should be relevant, because there shouldn't be such a big firesale anyway. I only expect 3 starting players to be gone.

 

It's about time someone realizes the truth...the Marlins are doing a fantastic job organizing a competitive team without overpaying any of their athletes. This team is one of the smartest in managing their payroll meanwhile still fielding a quality team. People need to stop bit**ing about how we trade away players. Look at the players we're trading away...Uggla who I still believe is way over-rated considering his avg and K's...(WOW!!! He can hit 30 HR's!!!! He can't drive in the run from 2nd when it really matters)...Jacobs who was at one point one of my favorite Marlins but we don't need him and his weak AVG at all...and Hermida...God knows when he's gonna start getting his sh*t together and start playing to his full potential...I have no problem trading away these players knowing we have young studs in the minors who can easily fill the void while still getting quality players back in return for these trades.

 

People need to stop bitching about these trades and start getting excited about the best rotation in the majors we're gonna have...

It would be great if your opinion on Uggla though had some basis in reality:

#1 Bringing the run in from 2nd or 3rd ALWAYS really matters. Just think July 4th if you don't see that.

#2 Dan Uggla had THE HIGHEST OBP with RISP among all Marlins who played the full season (417). How can you condemn Uggla for failing to d something at which he was the best player on the team all season?

 

I'm fine with trading Jacobs and Hermida (among one or two others), but this hate on Uggla and the desire to trade just continues to confuse me. He even had a higher OBP this season than Cabrera. The obsession of some on stuff like batting avg and Ks makes me believe that those among you would be calling to trade off Ryan Howard if he was on our team.

or

 

But the "fans" ARE WRONG. And the only reason they believe this crap is because its peddled to them by the media. Its okay to be disappointed that a player you like leaves the franchise, but to rant against it just because it happened IS NOT okay. If the people in South Florida think that the Marlins owe them something, or that the Marlins have to hold their hand and buy them ice cream and be their friend, then they are dearly wrong. It is that kind of pansy attitude that I hate. Miami has a MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL FRANCHISE. Do you know how special that is? The Marlins have won two world championships. They have done far more for the people in this area than what you give them credit for. They have won. They have given us great memories that we will never forget. They have given us something fun and something to love. THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS. If South Florida thinks that the Marlins owe them anything else, THEY ARE WRONG. There's plenty of areas in America that would support this team with no strings attached.

 

 

You say a mouthful, you are correct, thanks for saying it like it is.

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I'll say it again, its a FOOTBALL TOWN!!!. nobody outside of the season ticket holders really give a crap about this team, except buying tix to the playoffs or WS to "say they were there"....there is little passion here for baseball....oh i forgot our TV ratings are high, big deal....means nothing....

 

we have one radio station 560, that is football 24/7 now, basically.....

 

and when we had dontrelle, Cabrera and Delgado and all the others we traded away, we still drew crap.......

 

I don't like Loria at all, but frankly I am surprised the Marlins are still here.......

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