TSwift25

I guarantee you the Rays get State help. The only reason the Marlins haven't is because everybody's pussyfooting around with the plans. If they finalized the plans, the State would gladly approve the sales tax rebate. That's why the Magic got the rebate this past year, because they had concrete, finalized plans. Wrong. The Marlins would be double dipping as our current rebate stays with Pro Player and is non-revokable. Nice try though.

Do you see Torrealba as an offensive standout? He is about as mediocre on offense as a catcher can get. That's why Beinfest must think he "calls a good game," because he doesn't do much else to merit a $6 million contract over 2 years. I don't know how you measure such a thing, because I don't think you can simply quantify it and say one guy calls a better game than another. But, I think an outside observer could easily say that the guy we had catching the ball last year couldn't "call a good game" at all. In fact, most of the time he couldn't even "catch" the ball, which is essential for a "catcher." So, Beinfest is looking to upgrade, and, for better or worse, Torrealba seems to be the best low cost option. $6 million for 2 years is not really low cost, but there isn't a whole lot available this year. OK, so "calling a good game" is worth, in your opinion, $6 million or thereabouts? Just so we're all on the same page... No, I'm not saying that, nor am I saying that I like Torrealba at all. I'm just saying that, if Beinfest does actually get this guy, those will be the reasons. I think Treanor would do fine, but obviously Beinfest doesn't agree (if he does this). I'm not a "trust the coaches" kind of guy, but in this instance I think I'm going to defer to Beinfest. So you're saying that no matter what, even if your own logic tells you it's a bad idea, you won't question it? Awesome. Fascism started this way, too.

Do you see Torrealba as an offensive standout? He is about as mediocre on offense as a catcher can get. That's why Beinfest must think he "calls a good game," because he doesn't do much else to merit a $6 million contract over 2 years. I don't know how you measure such a thing, because I don't think you can simply quantify it and say one guy calls a better game than another. But, I think an outside observer could easily say that the guy we had catching the ball last year couldn't "call a good game" at all. In fact, most of the time he couldn't even "catch" the ball, which is essential for a "catcher." So, Beinfest is looking to upgrade, and, for better or worse, Torrealba seems to be the best low cost option. $6 million for 2 years is not really low cost, but there isn't a whole lot available this year. OK, so "calling a good game" is worth, in your opinion, $6 million or thereabouts? Just so we're all on the same page...

I'm going to admit ignorance over the contract negotiations that have taken place (or lack thereof) thus far. However, it doesn't take a genius to realize that Cabrera has the potential to get a mega-deal (and that some team will overpay) and that the Marlins don't have that kind of money. If all goes well on the stadium front we could potentially have a nice young talent core ready to make a run right around when our new park could open. No team can overpay for two years. The Marlins (well, scratch that, not the Marlins, but any other major league baseball club that operates in good faith) have leverage in the negotiations. Is it as strong as it was post 2005? No, not in the slightest. But there's no competition for him. Agents and players are tremendously risk-averse. If the Marlins were to give him a Soriano deal (by all estimates, a below market value contract) he'd be signed yesterday. The Marlins are no worse for wear, and Miggy's a bargain.

If they aren't going to sign him, which they won't, then it would be stupid to hold on to him It is stupid to say they won't sign him when they haven't had serious negotiations with SFX. The Marlins intentions are clear, that much is obvious.

Commentary: Marlins would be wise to hold on to Cabrera By Greg StodaGreg Stoda Palm Beach Post Staff Writer Friday, November 09, 2007 The Marlins might trade Miguel Cabrera. Probably will, in fact. If that does happen, the reasons they'll give will range from the exasperatingly familiar (the Groundhog Day hell of economics linked to the never-ending stadium issue) to the ridiculously inconsequential (he's fat and sassy). And that's just dumb. All of it. A trade of Cabrera would be brushed off - out of habit, by now - as just another installment in the franchise's almost annual deconstruction. It's the money, stupid, because it's always the money with the Marlins. But that convenient dodge doesn't, or shouldn't, work regarding Cabrera, whose situation is different than any previously dumped Florida player from Sheffield to Beckett. Cabrera, a slugging third baseman who'll turn 25 shortly after the start of next season, is a young, everyday player who already is one of the three or four or five best hitters in the game. He's worth whatever multimillions he'll warrant across the next several seasons. And beyond. Admin Beinfest, the Marlins' baseball operations president, faces his most difficult challenge. Beinfest has done a remarkable job rebuilding the Marlins time and time again on a tight budget. He should have received several pieces of jewelry when the 2003 World Series championship rings were presented. Cabrera, though, could be a cornerstone. And cornerstones get stadiums built. Which is why the Marlins should put Cabrera ahead of the stadium dream, instead of putting the stadium dream ahead of him. They should pay whatever price necessary - hey, save some millions by dealing left-handed starting pitcher Dontrelle Willis - to keep Cabrera as the core of a promising lineup. Think of it as a good-faith down payment on getting a place of their own. He's chunky? So was Tony Gwynn. He has a bad attitude and is a negative influence in the clubhouse? Barry Bonds is a jerk, too. And, no, it's not a stretch to invoke the names of Gwynn and Bonds in a Cabrera study. In the past four full seasons with the Marlins, Cabrera has batted a cumulative .316 with 126 home runs and 461 runs batted in. He has scored more than 400 runs. How is that kind of production going to be replaced? And don't bother me with chatter about getting a third baseman to replace him, plus a starting center fielder and a starting pitcher or a prospect in return. The Marlins need to overcome whatever disgust they harbor regarding Cabrera's petulant disposition, and pay him. Who knows? He might even interpret the gesture as a sign of respect, and respond with a more mature approach to the game. But as usual when it comes to the Marlins at this time of year, making a blockbuster deal has more to do with necessity than wisdom. "Good players are always in need, that's for sure," Beinfest told reporters at the general managers' meetings in Orlando this week. "I'm not talking specifically about Cabrera or Willis or Dan Uggla or (Hanley) Ramirez. When you trade really good players, you want really good players in return. You want talent for talent." Well, sure. But in Florida's case that has meant unproven talent for proven (read: high-dollar) talent. "I'm not going to speculate on who's being traded or not being traded," Beinfest said. "I think everyone is aware of our situation in South Florida. We're revenue-challenged. We run a reasonable payroll. We definitely have challenges. ... "We've had good teams with September hope. There's a lot of fans in a lot of cities who would like to have September hope, and they don't have it. Every year for the past four, not counting last year, we've had September hope. We don't expect sympathy. We expect to do well regardless of what our situation may be." That's all very nice. But there won't even be April hope for the Marlins next season if Cabrera isn't with them. Give him a long-term deal starting with whatever portion - 30 percent? - is required of the team's projected payroll of $30 million to $35 million. The Marlins could find their center fielder by getting rid of Willis, who was 10-15 with a 5.17 ERA last season. He's young (26 years old throughout next season) and is a lefty innings-eater. The Marlins ought to trade him and his effervescent personality. But not Cabrera.

Lot of that lately.

The problem with acquiring a "catcher of the future," is that most likely, when we do, he'll be young. And, because of that, calling a game and handling a young pitching staff will probably not be his strong suit. With the expected make-up of this team for the next few years, we need a catcher who can actually "catch" more than producing offensively, and maybe Torrealba best fits that mold for the next two years while our young pitchers develop (whomever we acquire for Cabs, Volstad, Hurk, Sanchez, etc.). I'm not saying I'm for this, I just see why Torrealba is probably intriguing to Beinfest. In a few years, we can probably acquire our "catcher of the future" and bring him in the fold when our pitchers are more fully developed. So then you just let Treanor be the catcher. Obviously, if Beinfest thinks he needs to go outside of the organization, that speaks volumes of his opinion on whether Treanor can fill this role. I can sit here and tell you "well, I think Treanor calls a good game" or "Treanor can be a starter in this league," but I don't really know if those statements are true. If Benifest thought Treanor could handle a young pitching staff, I am 100% sure he'd prop up Treanor as a low cost option to start so that we could spend some of this "allocated money" on other areas of need, like pitching. But, if Beinfest is the one pushing for someone of the likes of Torrealba, I think it an indictment (at least in the eyes of our GM) of Treanor as nothing more than a quality back-up. Meh, Beinfest isn't infallible. I think this offseason may be his full on "I'm Keith Hernandez" moment. And, of course, this also means Beinfest would subscribe to that rubbish of a catcher's value being all in "calling a good game" or whatever the hell it's called. I think this is suggestive of Beinfest's seeing value in Torrealba's offensive upside, because you're not paying the $4.5 million a season it's going to take to sign him for him to "call a good game." Do you see Torrealba as an offensive standout?

The problem with acquiring a "catcher of the future," is that most likely, when we do, he'll be young. And, because of that, calling a game and handling a young pitching staff will probably not be his strong suit. With the expected make-up of this team for the next few years, we need a catcher who can actually "catch" more than producing offensively, and maybe Torrealba best fits that mold for the next two years while our young pitchers develop (whomever we acquire for Cabs, Volstad, Hurk, Sanchez, etc.). I'm not saying I'm for this, I just see why Torrealba is probably intriguing to Beinfest. In a few years, we can probably acquire our "catcher of the future" and bring him in the fold when our pitchers are more fully developed. So then you just let Treanor be the catcher.

I rather see this need being filled via trade. In one of the two packages involving Willis and Cabrera. I rather have a top prospect filling the void, than Torrealba I hate trading Cabrera, but if you are going to do it. time to get a future catcher (future = cheap years, without arbitration) rather than a one year stop gap. I wholeheartedly agree with this. I do not understand the fascination with Torreablba, especially for the price, other than he's the best FA available--which isn't saying much. I'm always a little suspicious when a catcher's strongest attribute is supposed to be how he "calls a game." I think it is difficult to truly say how much of a staff's performance is actually due to the catcher and how much is due to other factors, such as the quality of the pitchers, the pitching coach, luck, etc. His home/road splits are a little troubling and, just based on his stats, it doesn't appear that his arm is anything to write home about. And if the emphasis is on a catcher who can actually catch the ball, you do not want Barrett either. That was one of the reasons (along with his "handling of the pitching staff") the Cubs tired of him, despite his hitting prowess (which was not in evidence last year). That being said, I favor the trade scenarios involving the Dodgers, even though they do not involve a catcher (while those with Angels do--either Mathis or Conger). He's not the best free agent available. Ah, forgot about Lo Duca, right? Anyone else? Posada

I rather see this need being filled via trade. In one of the two packages involving Willis and Cabrera. I rather have a top prospect filling the void, than Torrealba I hate trading Cabrera, but if you are going to do it. time to get a future catcher (future = cheap years, without arbitration) rather than a one year stop gap. I wholeheartedly agree with this. I do not understand the fascination with Torreablba, especially for the price, other than he's the best FA available--which isn't saying much. I'm always a little suspicious when a catcher's strongest attribute is supposed to be how he "calls a game." I think it is difficult to truly say how much of a staff's performance is actually due to the catcher and how much is due to other factors, such as the quality of the pitchers, the pitching coach, luck, etc. His home/road splits are a little troubling and, just based on his stats, it doesn't appear that his arm is anything to write home about. And if the emphasis is on a catcher who can actually catch the ball, you do not want Barrett either. That was one of the reasons (along with his "handling of the pitching staff") the Cubs tired of him, despite his hitting prowess (which was not in evidence last year). That being said, I favor the trade scenarios involving the Dodgers, even though they do not involve a catcher (while those with Angels do--either Mathis or Conger). He's not the best free agent available.

Don't be surprised if the Marlins are the higher bidder. They told one rival general manager they've set aside a healthy allocation to address their catching deficiencies. Trading Miguel Cabrera would provide the flexibility to pay a catcher while keeping a sub-$35 million payroll. Did that quote, and the implications of it, make anyone else laugh really really hard?

hoooooooooray!

The Marlins are looking for starting pitching. That means they're NOT looking to trade away their two best starters. Pass. Next? Actually, the Marlins are looking for starting pitching because their "best" (and I use that term loosely) two starters aren't good.

I have confidence in Beinfest and, don't laugh, Loria. I can see our payroll back up in the $40 Million range all said and done. This team is a stones-throw away from contention, Loria knows it, and if he doesn't Beinfest will convince him. Top lineup, top bullpen. One above average starter, one average starter, and health from our guys equals 90 wins. I've even toyed with the idea of moving Gregg back to the rotation and moving Lindstrom to the closers role... :lol First of all, I said don't laugh. Thanks for being so condecending. Second, you laugh as if Loria hasn't surprised us before. He's spent as much as $50-something million a year on this team. Right now, if he increased payroll to just $45 Million we could be one of the best three teams in the NL. And with the league breathing down his neck considering we're receiving more money from revenue sharing ect. than we ever have, I wouldn't be totally shocked. I don't expect it to happen, but I wouldn't be shocked. We're trading Cabrera for economic, not baseball, reasons. I'd love to be so clueless.

LOL @ Coco Crisp and Curtis Granderson getting robbed. Sizemore? Seriously? Congrats to Youkilis though, he definitely deserved it. Yeah, I seriously thought Crisp was a lock.

I have confidence in Beinfest and, don't laugh, Loria. I can see our payroll back up in the $40 Million range all said and done. This team is a stones-throw away from contention, Loria knows it, and if he doesn't Beinfest will convince him. Top lineup, top bullpen. One above average starter, one average starter, and health from our guys equals 90 wins. I've even toyed with the idea of moving Gregg back to the rotation and moving Lindstrom to the closers role... :lol

And we still won't be able to afford arbitration!

It's amazing to me, in that kind of rout, that Rondo only has 3 assists.

Dorell's box looks fine so far. What the hell did he do? Literally did not move for a rebound that turned into an offensive second chance bucket for the Spurs, and forgot about a thing called lateral movement.

I hate Dorrell Wright.

I'd check the waiver wire, but given the choice of the two, I would have to say Ginn, just because of Chad's health. He's not going to be a focal point.

Just contract us already. Seriously.

28 and 16 for Howard and Rashard had 27 (7-9 3 Pt FGs) Anybody doubting the signing of Rashard Lewis anymore? Is that a banner hanging already? :mischief

The more I think about this travesty, the more something stinks. Either Cameron is an idiot because he's keeping Beck on the bench for no good reason, or Beck stinks...in which case, Cameron is still an idiot. For drafting a 26 year-old stinky QB who may or may not be able to pick up the offense before his prostate begins to enlarge. The fact that Beck can't get in the game at this point in the season has me very worried that its the latter...that Beck stinks AND Cam is an idiot. And the scrutiny of Beck should he ever get in is going to be all the more intense now that people are starting to wonder if he's a bust. At this point, I'm pretty convinced we need to be thinking QB in the draft. We can't pass up another shot at a franchise QB. You're the first I've heard throw this theory out, and it makes a degree of sense. Of course, at what point will we swallow our pride on Beck if this is true? My hunch is two seasons too late. Shame with this looking like a fantastic draft for QB's.