Burnett for....

 

Bronson Arroyo and Hanley Ramirez/Abe Alvarez/Jon Lester (One of those)

I'd rather get Hudson for the year first. Then rather Jackson and someone else from La la land. And then this.

 

If there really is bad blood like there is said to be with AJ and the clubhouse it would be a good thing to get him going.

No.

 

Arroyo's a #3 at best and a free agent soon. No need for single-A middle infield and pitching prospects.

No.

 

Arroyo's a #3 at best and a free agent soon. No need for single-A middle infield and pitching prospects.

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Hanely Ramirez would be called up in alot of oranizations.

But not ours.

No i wouldnt do that trade.

 

I would do it for Hudson but it would be very tough for me to get over it, but we will get a good pitcher in return (hudson)

If they take Encarnacion and the Marlins get Arroyo (330k made last year) and H. Ramirez and another prospect, the Fish would save around 7-7.5 mil this year, giving them 14 million to work with on the market (if the 7 mil from Pavano was still available), plus a SS of the future so Gonzalez could be allowed to walk after this year, giving the Marlins even more money to spend next offseason after Conine, and potentiall Enc, are FA's and the jackass payments to Pudge and Hampton are off the books.

 

The 14 mil would give them enough to go after Odalis Perez with a 3 yr 21 mil offer (6-7-8) and at least offer Magglio a one year, 7-8 million dollar deal. If Magglio didn't accept that, you could go after Delucci at 2.5 mil (essentially the same player as Enc, but at 2 million cheaper) and Steve Kline, among others.

 

So, in conclusion, it's something to think about if the Sox take Enc back, because of the coveted "financial flexibility" the Marlins could achieve as a result. Even though they do give up a potential ace for this year who most likely will not re-sign after this offseason.

 

Potential lineup, etc:

 

Beckett

Willis

Leiter

O. Perez

Arroyo (If you look at his numbers like a 1.22 WHIP along with other peripheral numbers, and realize he played in a hitters park behind a bad defense for 1/2 the year, he's really not a bad pitcher. And he's young enough at 27 to improve, and cheap.)

 

Pierre

Castillo

Ordonez

Cabrera

Lowell

Lo Duca (ugh)

Conine (ugh)

Gonzalez

 

Mota

A.A.

Spooney

Jones

Perisho/Gabe White (Palm Beach Post said they were intersted)

Bump/Howard/Wayne/other mop up reliever

 

 

This probably assumes too much, mainly Ordonez signing and staying healthy, but it's a solid team on paper. Scores enough runs to win with a decent pen. Of course, you're counting on Beckett to be an ace, but essentially that's what they are doing this year anyway. And while there's no clear no.2 starter, there are 4 no.3's, which is like what the Braves went with last year going in, until Jaret Wright broke out, which could conceivably happen to Willis.

 

Just an idea to consider.

Bronson Arroyo scares me as a Sox fan. He scares me even more as a Marlins fan.

no thanks. you go out & deal a stud like Burnett you'd better get a proven top player in return.

But not ours.

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I forgot what a behemoth Alex Gonzalez is....

 

Ramirez could be an everyday player next year. He's a stud.

But not ours.

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I forgot what a behemoth Alex Gonzalez is....

 

Ramirez could be an everyday player next year. He's a stud.

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If he's so good, you keep'em.

 

Why don't you propose a real trade?

But not ours.

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I forgot what a behemoth Alex Gonzalez is....

 

Ramirez could be an everyday player next year. He's a stud.

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If he's so good, you keep'em.

 

Why don't you propose a real trade?

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Edgar Renteria, thats why.

 

There is obviously somethign very wrong internally with Burnett or he would not be in alot of trade rumors. Bosto nwill eat salary for Burnett, and The Marlins will lick their lips for that and Hanely.

Hanley is amazing

 

but i think u'd hafta throw in one more player there

 

maybe throw out arroyo, put in trot, and we give you enc

 

:thumbup , i know i'd like that trade

The last thing the Marlins need is the second coming of Don Buddin.

the marlins are cheap, but not that cheap.

 

 

Its not like AJ is breakign the bank and Arroyo doesnt give me any warm fuzzies.

 

 

AJ is a top of the rotation pitcher.

 

 

Ramirez has proven nothing.

 

 

Antoehr example of Evil Empire North trying to bully people around like Evil Empire South.

Last year, Bronson Arroyo had a better K/BB, K/9, and opp BA than Carl Pavano. He was hurt by being a flyball pitcher (1.04 G/F) at Fenway Park, and his ERA would undoubtedly improve by coming to FLA. Arroyo throws 15.8 pitches per inning, which is fewer than Al Leiter. He can give 6-7 solid innings per outing at that rate, which is what the Marlins will need with Leiter and Willis in the rotation. Arroyo's home vs road splits clearly show he was hurt significantly by pitching in Fenway (His ERA was 2 points lower, his opp BA was 80 points lower). He is 27 years old and made 330k last year, so he is young and cheap. Shipping Burnett and Enc would allow savings to be passed on elsewhere.

 

Would I rather have Hudson or another superstar than Arroyo? Absolutely.

 

Would I rather have Burnett re-sign long term at a reasonable (3/21-24) price? Yes.

 

If the Sox give up Arroyo, H. Ramirez, and another good prospect, is it a horrible deal? No.

He can give 6-7 solid innings per outing at that rate, which is what the Marlins will need with Leiter and Willis in the rotation.

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what's that supposed to mean?

 

dontrelle can go forever. He had two complete games last year. If you're talkin about the outings where he just stinks, well, then u dont really need such a great bullpen, do you?

This is just more of 'the Marlins are chumps we can take advantage of" talk.

 

If Hanley Ramirez is so good let them trade him for a left power rightfielder and then come talk to us. Right now all he represents is another can't miss phenom who will probably turn out to be another Pablo Ozuna or Cesar Crespo. They were both can't miss phenoms too.

Arroyo, Ramirez, Alvarez for Burnett, Enc

 

:notworthy

 

I can dream.

He can give 6-7 solid innings per outing at that rate, which is what the Marlins will need with Leiter and Willis in the rotation.

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what's that supposed to mean?

 

dontrelle can go forever. He had two complete games last year. If you're talkin about the outings where he just stinks, well, then u dont really need such a great bullpen, do you?

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Willis either goes deep (like 9 inning types) into games or bows out in the fifth or sixth. There were times last year where Dontrelle would have 5 inning, 4 run nights, which aren't bad outings, but can tax the bullpen when you have another pitcher like Leiter who doesn't go deep into games either. Dontrelle isn't an "efficient" pitcher, the same problem that plagued Burnett early in his career, though he improved greatly in that regard last year, meaning he goes deep into counts alot. He does get people out, it's just that he has more 8-10 pitch at bats with outs than other pitchers. Leiter is the same way. Alot of quality, 5-6 inning starts. These outings aren't bad, but if you have too many pitchers who don't go deep into games, your bullpen can break down late in the year.

 

Once again, I'm not saying Arroyo is the second coming. But he's definetly solid, could improve with a move to a pitcher's park (see home vs road splits) and could help the Marlins alot. If you have to give up Burnett, and can get Arroyo and some good, major league ready prospects, it's not the end of the world. Though I'd still rather lock up Burnett or get Hudson.

:blink:

 

F*ck no.

Dontrelle: 197 IP

 

Bronson: 178.2 IP

 

same # of games

Dontrelle: 197 IP

 

Bronson: 178.2 IP

 

same # of games

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Valid point and very true. But...

 

Arroyo started 29 games, and Willis started 32. 3 of Arroyo's appearances were in relief. So while they had the game number of games appeared in, Willis benefitted by three more starts than Arroyo.

 

Additonally, this is another area where Fenway hurt Arroyo. He threw 28 more innings in 3 more road starts than home starts. He was a much different pitcher on the road than at home.

 

That being said, I expect Willis to improve this year to about 210-220 innings. At least I hope he does, with Leiter coming aboard.

No to the trade.

 

It's a small sample size, but the game I saw Ramirez play in AA last year he struck out three times and had an error (which was actually good, since I was rooting against the Sea Dogs). From seeing TV and print interviews he seems like an egomaniac too. And Arroyo? Possibly the worst pitcher since Casey Fossum.

I like Hanley Ramirez, but I don't think Bronson Arroyo would be a good pickup.