January 22, 200521 yr John Franco has 400+ saves, I don't think he deserves "maybe" status. No one else thinks McGriff will make it into the HOF? There is no real good 3B out there. Griffey and Palmeiro are shoo-ins.
January 22, 200521 yr John Franco has 400+ saves, I don't think he deserves "maybe" status. 662769[/snapback] Tell that to Lee Smith
January 22, 200521 yr John Franco has 400+ saves, I don't think he deserves "maybe" status. 662769[/snapback] Tell that to Lee Smith 662776[/snapback] Lee Smith deserves to go in.....Hopefully he can make it next year. It would be a travesty if Smith is not elected.
January 22, 200521 yr Andruw Jones is not the best CF ever, not even close. And there's no way Omar Vizquel even sniffs the HOF, the only way he gets into the HOF is if he buys a ticket. C: Piazza, Pudge 1B: Jeff Bagwell, Palmiero 2B: Alomar (questionable after the past few years), Kent SS: Jeter, Nomar, A-Rod 3B: Rolen, Chipper LF: Bonds, Manny, Rickey CF: Griffey (questionable) RF: Sosa, Sheff SP: Maddux, Schilling, RJ, Glavine, Clemens RP: Gagne (Smoltz is he was still closing) 662717[/snapback] So Griffeys quesationable but Rolens not? And Gagnes been elite for what 3 years now, how is he hall of fame if he retires today?
January 22, 200521 yr How about Todd Zeile for playing with atleast 12 different teams... thats something to brag about
January 22, 200521 yr Andruw Jones is not the best CF ever, not even close. And there's no way Omar Vizquel even sniffs the HOF, the only way he gets into the HOF is if he buys a ticket. C: Piazza, Pudge 1B: Jeff Bagwell, Palmiero 2B: Alomar (questionable after the past few years), Kent SS: Jeter, Nomar, A-Rod 3B: Rolen, Chipper LF: Bonds, Manny, Rickey CF: Griffey (questionable) RF: Sosa, Sheff SP: Maddux, Schilling, RJ, Glavine, Clemens RP: Gagne (Smoltz is he was still closing) 662717[/snapback] So Griffeys quesationable but Rolens not? And Gagnes been elite for what 3 years now, how is he hall of fame if he retires today? 662804[/snapback] Rolen and Gagne were put on there because they have potential to be HOFers. If they both retired today they wouldn't make it. As for Griffey, it all depends which Ken Griffey Jr the writers decide to remember, the talented young superstar or the selfish primadonna who imploded over the past few years, but since he has 500 career hrs I wouldn't bet against him making it.
January 22, 200521 yr 1B: Rafael Palmiero (1st ballot), Fred McGriff (deserves it more than Thomas), Jim Thome (Maybe) 662558[/snapback] Palmero -- .289/.372/.517 -- 550+ HR's just under 3000 hits. 132 career OPS+, MVPs = 0, top 10 in MVP voting = 3, 3 GG. McGriff -- .284/.377/.509 -- 490+, 2500 hits, 134 career OPS+, O MVPs, 5 time top ten MVP, 5 time ASG. Thomas -- .308/.429/.567 -- 435+ HR 162 career OPS+(ranks 13th all time, 2nd active behind bonds) 2MVPS, 5 ASG, top ten in MVP 8 times. Thomas is unquestionably a better hitter than both.
January 22, 200521 yr Author Andruw Jones is not the best CF ever, not even close. And there's no way Omar Vizquel even sniffs the HOF, the only way he gets into the HOF is if he buys a ticket. C: Piazza, Pudge 1B: Jeff Bagwell, Palmiero 2B: Alomar (questionable after the past few years), Kent SS: Jeter, Nomar, A-Rod 3B: Rolen, Chipper LF: Bonds, Manny, Rickey CF: Griffey (questionable) RF: Sosa, Sheff SP: Maddux, Schilling, RJ, Glavine, Clemens RP: Gagne (Smoltz is he was still closing) 662717[/snapback] I dont think Friffey is questionable, he was th ebst player of the 90s withought a doubt. He didnt reach the expectations that were unfairly put on him, but that isnt his fault. 662761[/snapback] Bonds was the best player of the 90's, Griffey was second
January 23, 200521 yr Andruw Jones is not the best CF ever, not even close. And there's no way Omar Vizquel even sniffs the HOF, the only way he gets into the HOF is if he buys a ticket. C: Piazza, Pudge 1B: Jeff Bagwell, Palmiero 2B: Alomar (questionable after the past few years), Kent SS: Jeter, Nomar, A-Rod 3B: Rolen, Chipper LF: Bonds, Manny, Rickey CF: Griffey (questionable) RF: Sosa, Sheff SP: Maddux, Schilling, RJ, Glavine, Clemens RP: Gagne (Smoltz is he was still closing) 662717[/snapback] I dont think Friffey is questionable, he was th ebst player of the 90s withought a doubt. He didnt reach the expectations that were unfairly put on him, but that isnt his fault. 662761[/snapback] Bonds was the best player of the 90's, Griffey was second 662944[/snapback] No. And people giving Thome love but not Todd Helton? Cruel.
January 23, 200521 yr Andruw Jones is not the best CF ever, not even close. And there's no way Omar Vizquel even sniffs the HOF, the only way he gets into the HOF is if he buys a ticket. C: Piazza, Pudge 1B: Jeff Bagwell, Palmiero 2B: Alomar (questionable after the past few years), Kent SS: Jeter, Nomar, A-Rod 3B: Rolen, Chipper LF: Bonds, Manny, Rickey CF: Griffey (questionable) RF: Sosa, Sheff SP: Maddux, Schilling, RJ, Glavine, Clemens RP: Gagne (Smoltz is he was still closing) 662717[/snapback] I dont think Friffey is questionable, he was th ebst player of the 90s withought a doubt. He didnt reach the expectations that were unfairly put on him, but that isnt his fault. 662761[/snapback] Bonds was the best player of the 90's, Griffey was second 662944[/snapback] No. 662955[/snapback] Bonds won 3 MVP awards in the decade(probably should have been 4). Griffey only won one.
January 23, 200521 yr Andruw Jones is not the best CF ever, not even close. And there's no way Omar Vizquel even sniffs the HOF, the only way he gets into the HOF is if he buys a ticket. C: Piazza, Pudge 1B: Jeff Bagwell, Palmiero 2B: Alomar (questionable after the past few years), Kent SS: Jeter, Nomar, A-Rod 3B: Rolen, Chipper LF: Bonds, Manny, Rickey CF: Griffey (questionable) RF: Sosa, Sheff SP: Maddux, Schilling, RJ, Glavine, Clemens RP: Gagne (Smoltz is he was still closing) 662717[/snapback] I dont think Friffey is questionable, he was th ebst player of the 90s withought a doubt. He didnt reach the expectations that were unfairly put on him, but that isnt his fault. 662761[/snapback] Bonds was the best player of the 90's, Griffey was second 662944[/snapback] No. 662955[/snapback] Bonds won 3 MVP awards in the decade(probably should have been 4). Griffey only won one. 662959[/snapback] Except some of those MVP awards were probably steriod induced.
January 23, 200521 yr Andruw Jones is not the best CF ever, not even close. And there's no way Omar Vizquel even sniffs the HOF, the only way he gets into the HOF is if he buys a ticket. C: Piazza, Pudge 1B: Jeff Bagwell, Palmiero 2B: Alomar (questionable after the past few years), Kent SS: Jeter, Nomar, A-Rod 3B: Rolen, Chipper LF: Bonds, Manny, Rickey CF: Griffey (questionable) RF: Sosa, Sheff SP: Maddux, Schilling, RJ, Glavine, Clemens RP: Gagne (Smoltz is he was still closing) 662717[/snapback] I dont think Friffey is questionable, he was th ebst player of the 90s withought a doubt. He didnt reach the expectations that were unfairly put on him, but that isnt his fault. 662761[/snapback] Bonds was the best player of the 90's, Griffey was second 662944[/snapback] No. 662955[/snapback] Bonds won 3 MVP awards in the decade(probably should have been 4). Griffey only won one. 662959[/snapback] Except some of those MVP awards were probably steriod induced. 662967[/snapback] no you are one dumb obnoxious Cub fan. He won them in 1990, 1992 and 1993, way before BALCO.
January 23, 200521 yr Author Andruw Jones is not the best CF ever, not even close. And there's no way Omar Vizquel even sniffs the HOF, the only way he gets into the HOF is if he buys a ticket. C: Piazza, Pudge 1B: Jeff Bagwell, Palmiero 2B: Alomar (questionable after the past few years), Kent SS: Jeter, Nomar, A-Rod 3B: Rolen, Chipper LF: Bonds, Manny, Rickey CF: Griffey (questionable) RF: Sosa, Sheff SP: Maddux, Schilling, RJ, Glavine, Clemens RP: Gagne (Smoltz is he was still closing) 662717[/snapback] I dont think Friffey is questionable, he was th ebst player of the 90s withought a doubt. He didnt reach the expectations that were unfairly put on him, but that isnt his fault. 662761[/snapback] Bonds was the best player of the 90's, Griffey was second 662944[/snapback] No. And people giving Thome love but not Todd Helton? Cruel. 662955[/snapback] The SOLE reason why I left Helton out was because he hasn't been around long enough. You need to be around for 10 years to be HOF eligible, Helton has only 8. And as for Bonds, who was named Player of the Decade in the 90's, Bonds or Griffey? That's what I thought. Who won 3 MVPs (should have been four), had a 40/ 40 season on top of that?
January 23, 200521 yr Bonds won 3 MVP awards in the decade(probably should have been 4). Griffey only won one. Griffey had more homers, more RBIs, and had a better average, all while missing siginificant time one season. You get into the Hall on stats, and in the 90's Junior was better stat wise.
January 23, 200521 yr Author C:Mike Piazza, Pudge Rodriguez 1B: Rafael Palmiero (1st ballot), Fred McGriff (deserves it more than Thomas), Jim Thome (Maybe) 2B:Robbie Alomar, Craig Biggio, Jeff Kent (maybe) SS/3B:Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Nomar Garciaparra OF: BALCO Bonds (1st ballot), Manny Ramirez (maybe), Ken Griffey Jr. (1st ballot), Sammy Sosa (1st ballot), Moises Alou (maybe), Carlos Beltran (if he avoids injury is a possiblity) DH: Edgar Martinez SP: Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Tom Glavine, Roger Clemens (1st ballot), RP: John Franco, Trevor Hoffman, Mariano Rivera 662558[/snapback] I left out McGriff because I don't consider him active. And I forgot about Hoffman for some reason, I should have put him in instead of Moose
January 23, 200521 yr Author Bonds won 3 MVP awards in the decade(probably should have been 4).? Griffey only won one. Griffey had more homers, more RBIs, and had a better average. You get into the Hall on stats, and in the 90's Junior was better stat wise. 662973[/snapback] who had the higher OBP, SLG, and OPS in the 90's? And Griffey played the 90's in the Kingdome, a major home run haven while BOnds had the deal with the heavy winds coming in from the outfield at the Stick.
January 23, 200521 yr Andruw Jones is not the best CF ever, not even close. And there's no way Omar Vizquel even sniffs the HOF, the only way he gets into the HOF is if he buys a ticket. C: Piazza, Pudge 1B: Jeff Bagwell, Palmiero 2B: Alomar (questionable after the past few years), Kent SS: Jeter, Nomar, A-Rod 3B: Rolen, Chipper LF: Bonds, Manny, Rickey CF: Griffey (questionable) RF: Sosa, Sheff SP: Maddux, Schilling, RJ, Glavine, Clemens RP: Gagne (Smoltz is he was still closing) 662717[/snapback] So Griffeys quesationable but Rolens not? And Gagnes been elite for what 3 years now, how is he hall of fame if he retires today? 662804[/snapback] Rolen and Gagne were put on there because they have potential to be HOFers. If they both retired today they wouldn't make it. As for Griffey, it all depends which Ken Griffey Jr the writers decide to remember, the talented young superstar or the selfish primadonna who imploded over the past few years, but since he has 500 career hrs I wouldn't bet against him making it. 662835[/snapback] The point of the thread was if they retired today
January 23, 200521 yr Author speaking of about to retire, does Barry Larkin get in? 662991[/snapback] damn, i completely forgot about him. Yes, IMO he should
January 23, 200521 yr Andruw Jones is not the best CF ever, not even close. And there's no way Omar Vizquel even sniffs the HOF, the only way he gets into the HOF is if he buys a ticket. C: Piazza, Pudge 1B: Jeff Bagwell, Palmiero 2B: Alomar (questionable after the past few years), Kent SS: Jeter, Nomar, A-Rod 3B: Rolen, Chipper LF: Bonds, Manny, Rickey CF: Griffey (questionable) RF: Sosa, Sheff SP: Maddux, Schilling, RJ, Glavine, Clemens RP: Gagne (Smoltz is he was still closing) 662717[/snapback] I dont think Friffey is questionable, he was th ebst player of the 90s withought a doubt. He didnt reach the expectations that were unfairly put on him, but that isnt his fault. 662761[/snapback] Bonds was the best player of the 90's, Griffey was second 662944[/snapback] No. 662955[/snapback] Bonds won 3 MVP awards in the decade(probably should have been 4). Griffey only won one. 662959[/snapback] Except some of those MVP awards were probably steriod induced. 662967[/snapback] no you are one dumb obnoxious Cub fan. He won them in 1990, 1992 and 1993, way before BALCO. 662970[/snapback] I made a mistake you stupid obnoxious Marlin fan. How unclassy. These are the type of Marlin fans that give some of you guys a bad reputation around the MLB.
January 23, 200521 yr Palmeiro is not a shoo-in. If he is then so is McGriff. How about a guy named Vladimir Guerrero? I know he doesn't have the service time yet but I think he'd make it even if he hit .200 next year. No one thinks Javy has a shot? How about Frank Thomas? Juan Gonzalez? I can't believe not everyone's named Smoltz and Mariano. Both are locks.
January 23, 200521 yr Author Palmeiro is not a shoo-in. If he is then so is McGriff. How about a guy named Vladimir Guerrero? I know he doesn't have the service time yet but I think he'd make it even if he hit .200 next year. No one thinks Javy has a shot? How about Frank Thomas? Juan Gonzalez? I can't believe not everyone's named Smoltz and Mariano. Both are locks. 663012[/snapback] i left out mcgriff because i don't consider him active Guerrero hasn't been around long enough, same reason I left out Helton Javy, I don't think so, THomas yes, Juan Gone borderline Damn, add Smoltz to the list of people I forgot
January 23, 200521 yr Juan Gone is still relatively young. Javy has better stats than, say, Gary Carter (the biggest disgrace to the Hall).
January 23, 200521 yr Author Juan Gone is still relatively young. Javy has better stats than, say, Gary Carter (the biggest disgrace to the Hall). 663037[/snapback] Well, I refuse to acknowledge the fact that Gary Carter is in the hall. That just drastically lowers the bar.
January 23, 200521 yr You don't think Jeter would make it as of right now? He is a .300 career hitter, team captain, 4 rings, ROY, WS MVP, Gold Glove, and has a few web gem awards 662602[/snapback] I have never thought that team success translates into getting you into the HOF. He needs to get 2K in hits. 662607[/snapback] Unfortunately it does. Just look at the HOF-Tinkers, Evers and Chance all in the HOF. Lots of Yankees-Rizzuto, for instance because of the teammates he played with. Pee Wee Reese for Dodgers look at Rizzuto. The HOF has several players there because of team success. Also there is a reason for the five year wait period for players to be voted into the HOF. The "Juiced era" of baseball with its inflated statistics will challenge future voters on the worthiness of todays individuals. It is rare that an active player could be considered an automatic HOFer and unfair to current players to judge their careers without some reflection.
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