Posted on Sun, Nov. 20, 2005

 

Our lack of support forces Marlins' hand

 

We tend to knee-jerk when we hear Josh Beckett might be traded. We bring our distrust and wounds and baggage to what should be a cash-cold analysis of a baseball transaction. Because the Marlins betrayed us with a fire sale once, nine years and two ownership groups ago, we are like the heartbroken lover who has been cheated on. We are scared and scarred and armored and always bracing for the next lie.

 

So there's the fear in South Florida that Beckett now being dangled is just the first pebble in another avalanche of betrayal. But this management group deserves the benefit of the doubt. It is handcuffed financially, but it has consistently been as creative with its money and aggressive with its transactions as any team in the realm of competition.

 

Moving Beckett feels like the start of a full-scale salary dump? Maybe. But please remember that the same accusation was made when the Marlins traded Matt Clement once. And what they got back was a then-unknown Dontrelle Willis. And a championship.

 

It is hard to imagine how trading Beckett, Mike Lowell and Carlos Delgado would make the Marlins better next season. But, again, it was hard to imagine the Marlins holding up the trophy at Yankee Stadium in 2003, too. And while possibly losing Beckett really stings, the Marlins have to make hard decisions all the time because of payroll confinements. That's business, cold and true. The Marlins might be big-league in the standings, but they are not big-league when it comes to their stadium, their revenue, their fan base or their support.

 

FANS ARE AT FAULT

 

We shouldn't blame them if Beckett goes.

 

We should blame ourselves.

 

We can't get a stadium built for this team. We can't buy enough tickets to make this anything other than the worst baseball city in North America. So we can't really complain too much when the Marlins start doing uncomfortable things to get their finances in order. We refuse to help them financially, so they have to consider trading a World Series hero (Beckett) and a home-grown champion (Lowell) and an excellent mercenary (Delgado) in order to help themselves.

 

The proposed trade of Beckett and Lowell to Texas for All-Star third baseman Hank Blalock is not a bad trade for Florida, all things considered. You'd like to build around a young, cheap and overwhelming arm, but the Marlins are saddled with the contract of Lowell, a contract no one will take unless it is attached to something valuable -- like a young, cheap, overwhelming arm.

 

A lot of general managers believe Lowell to be spent as an elite player, though there is little to no precedent for a player in his prime going from three consecutive All-Star Games to complete and final failure. That said, the Marlins literally can't afford Lowell's underachievement, can't afford to pay him and see if 2004 was a one-year aberration. So the Marlins have to staple his contract to another valued commodity, whether it be Luis Castillo or Delgado or Beckett.

 

Seeing as how the Rangers are willing to part with a young All-Star, Texas isn't going to want an older player and big contract like Castillo's or Delgado's in return.

 

So Beckett becomes the loss that hurts the least among what remains of value for Florida. Or would you prefer trading Miguel Cabrera or Willis?

 

Marlins GM Admin Beinfest has been consistently shrewd shopping for discounts. The Marlins, as a matter of policy, don't believe in multiyear contracts, but they gave them to Lowell and Castillo after winning the title to appease the fan base and try to grow support.

 

NO SUPPORT

 

Despite that, Florida still found itself, even while being playoff-worthy up to the season's last month, last in the National League in attendance. There is not another city in baseball, not one, that would draw as poorly as Florida did for a competitive defending champion in 2004 and a 2005 team that was up a game in the wild-card standings in September.

 

Would have been nice, once upon a time, if the Marlins had locked up Beckett, Willis, A.J. Burnett, Carl Pavano and Brad Penny to long-term contracts. It would have cost about $70 million -- or less than the Yankees pay in tolls on the way to the stadium. But the business reality of working in a yawning South Florida is that you are going to lose important, valuable players on occasion to difficult business decisions.

 

That's not the team's fault.

 

It is ours.

For once I agree 100% with Danny.

 

 

The blame is not on Loria like some in this forum want to do. The blame is squarely on South Florida itself.

I think he's right, but at the same time I think any Marlins owner has to face the reality. You're not going to get the stadium built by paying for half of it. If we had an owner that was wealthy enough and willing enough to build a stadium, things would work out differently.

 

Alas, it is not to be. We'll do what we can with what we have. Maybe we'll be WS Champions again in 2009. Let's roll.

There's alot of truth in this article.

 

Has the population of South Florida provided the support necessary to field a playoff caliber team year in and year out? Have they put pressure on the politicos to forge a deal for a new stadium, just as most other cities have? Do they show up at the ticket window with enough frequency to make a difference?

 

I know we're doing what we can, but the same can't be said for the vast majority of residents in So. Florida. We hope for an owner with loads of cash to throw around to make up for the lack of financial support from the community.

 

It's a shame really. One could sense the team was building momentum and nearing that threshold where they could be financially viable in South Florida for a long time. But it appears Loria has run out of cash and run out of patience, and all he has done to make progress is about to be undone.

Yeah, blame the fans, specially those who have season tickets and give the team a big deposit upfront.

I agree 100%. Loria put the best teams on the field we have evr seen down here in Florida, but every year he loses money. Would you want to keep throwing money at something and never get any return. Loria did his part, and he is a great owner.

 

I dont know, i mightbe wrong but I heard Loria even lost money during the 03 season, even though we made the playoffs.

I dont know, i mightbe wrong but I heard Loria even lost money during the 03 season, even though we made the playoffs.

 

 

Lies.

 

I can see why Loria is frustrated, but chopping up the team is a big step backwards, not forwards.

2006 attendance will take a big hit if they put the Jupiter Hammerheads on the field.

I can't believe it's been 9 years :o

Yeah, blame the fans, specially those who have season tickets and give the team a big deposit upfront.

 

Come on, it's pretty obvious he's talking specifically to those who DON'T support the team, which, unfortunately, gets generalized as South Florida as a whole. If you can't tell that he's not talking about the few who have season tickets, then I really feel sorry for you.

The Marlins Customer Service Sucks. If you want people to spend their hard earned cash on your product, how about some service?

Yeah, blame the fans, specially those who have season tickets and give the team a big deposit upfront.

 

Come on, it's pretty obvious he's talking specifically to those who DON'T support the team, which, unfortunately, gets generalized as South Florida as a whole. If you can't tell that he's not talking about the few who have season tickets, then I really feel sorry for you.

 

Obviously I can tell, but I am sick and tired of the generalizations journalists consistently use to blame every Marlins fan as a weak supporter, and I'd imagine that out of all places, people here would realize this too.

 

It's not the fans fault.

 

Hell, I even voted for Carlos Alvarez, who I don't particularly care for, ON THE SOLE REASON he was for building a new stadium.

I agree 100%. Loria put the best teams on the field we have evr seen down here in Florida, but every year he loses money. Would you want to keep throwing money at something and never get any return. Loria did his part, and he is a great owner.

 

I dont know, i mightbe wrong but I heard Loria even lost money during the 03 season, even though we made the playoffs.

 

Operating losses most likely, recouped through luxury tax payments. I wouldn't doubt if he had lost some money over the past two seasons though. Still it's a bad trend, along with the team sale price likely remaining low, with no end in sight.

Yeah, blame the fans. I'm sure the fact that Huizenga keeping most of the money has nothing to do with the Fish losing money and not being able to afford players.

Yeah, blame the fans. I'm sure the fact that Huizenga keeping most of the money has nothing to do with the Fish losing money and not being able to afford players.

 

:notworthy

The Marlins Customer Service Sucks. If you want people to spend their hard earned cash on your product, how about some service?

 

 

There's some truth to this. This is not a fan-friendly organization. Compare them to the Heat, who bend over backwards to make sure everyone's having a good time. Stuff like that keeps you coming back for more.

Yeah, blame the fans. I'm sure the fact that Huizenga keeping most of the money has nothing to do with the Fish losing money and not being able to afford players.

 

29th in the league in attendance? 26th in the league in attendance?

 

Yes, blame Wayne.

 

It is the lack of support that hurts this team, but if Loria negotiated two contracts he can't afford (Lowell, Delgado) it's his damn fault too. It's irresponsible and ignorant of him to think that signing Delgado would, on its own, have a substantial effect on attendance...he should know better than that after the '04 season brought more of the same as far as fan support was concerned.

Wow. We are going to be famous for having this many fire sales in a short time.

 

Between the fans and ownership, its just been a bad relationship for quite a while. Florida might as well be waving goodbye to the Marlins.

Right on Dan :notworthy

 

I can't blame this on Loria.

Here are the final words I heard on the last day of the season from a stadium (read, Huizenga) employee...

 

I say, walking through the gates for the final time, "See you next year".

 

The response, "Not unless we both move to Vegas". Senior, white collar stadium corporate bigwig.

I dont know, i mightbe wrong but I heard Loria even lost money during the 03 season, even though we made the playoffs.

 

 

Lies.

 

I can see why Loria is frustrated, but chopping up the team is a big step backwards, not forwards.

2006 attendance will take a big hit if they put the Jupiter Hammerheads on the field.

 

No Lies... Loria did indeed lose in the Millions in the 03' season... The funny this is Dan himself is a damn bandwagoner! I remeber reading an article of his in 03' when the fish were 10 under .500... Ripping them left and right saying this team was worthless... Then when we shocked the world the dumbass had the nerve to write "This team is the best florida has seen.. Ive seen this build up for years.." All this BS! SCREW DAN LA BASTARD! Guy is a MORON!

I have come full circle on Dan LeBatard.

 

No one despised his horrendous, and now by his own account, misguided comments regarding the Marlins organization and Loria in particular more than me, but he is more like a reformed drunk who, in his sobriety has seen the light of day and has admitted to his sins (those twelve step programs are great lol) and has become the biggest supporter of the franchise in South Florida.

Yeah, blame the fans, specially those who have season tickets and give the team a big deposit upfront.

 

 

He isn't specifically blaming the season ticket holders and "fans" who attend regularly. It's the community as a whole that is not supporting the team. There just aren't enough fans buying tickets to support a $60-70M payroll. That's the point.

 

Sure there's other issues like the poor lease arrangements. However if the team were averaging over 30K fans a night then poor lease and all Loria could afford to field a more expensive team.

I agree 100%. If this team isn't in the WS every year, nobody will coming out and fully support this team. Its absolutely pathetic that this team cannot even get a stadium built after all of these years and goes a long way to proving that South Florida is a bush league town.

 

 

I never thought I would say it, but I agree with Le Retard.

Yeah, blame the fans. I'm sure the fact that Huizenga keeping most of the money has nothing to do with the Fish losing money and not being able to afford players.

 

Ya I'm sure that's why attendance was 28th in the league last year.