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I love Loria's passion, too. I would love Loria to get a new stadium for the Marlins in So. Florida. I think he's a great owner. However, I am not sure he's got the money to get this deal done. That's my main concern. Although I feel a certain level of loyalty for Loria, I am even more loyal to the Marlins as a franchise. So I am in favor of doing whatever it takes takes to keep them in So. Florida - if changing ownership will do that, then so be it.

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As long as they build the dang stadium and they stay in S. Fla, i don't care who buys it. Loria has been great but I am sorry, if you are going to take the fish away to another state, then everything that you have done for the team has no relevance whatsoever. Remember, owners come and go, but the team is the one that remains and the one that us fans can relate to.

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Loria isnt the problem.

 

Loria is a big part of the problem. He doesnt have alot of money and he doesnt have the connections to get things done. Fair or not if some local juiced in guy owned the Marlins the stadium would be built. I care about the marlins not Loria so if removing him from the equation is the price that needs to be paid to keep the Marlins in Florida so be it

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Loria isnt the problem.

 

Loria is a big part of the problem. He doesnt have alot of money and he doesnt have the connections to get things done. Fair or not if some local juiced in guy owned the Marlins the stadium would be built. I care about the marlins not Loria so if removing him from the equation is the price that needs to be paid to keep the Marlins in Florida so be it.

 

That's a little ominous...

 

Okay, so how exactly do you imagine Loria being "removed" from the equation? He's not going to sell the team. He'll move the team before selling it.

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This topic continues to bring me too Carl Pohlad. He is the wealthiest owner in MLB and owns the small market twins. If he chose to he could put an $80 million dollar payroll on the field and a fund a stadium and not even know it. Does he do that? No!

 

He took a good amount of time getting public funding for a stadium (maybe longer than the marlins) and puts a competitive team on the field under a conservative budget.

 

Would a Billion more dollars in Loria's bank account help? Sure?

 

Nevertheless Loria can still provide us with what we want if we can get a little more help from the local Gov'ts and the state.

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Loria isnt the problem.

 

Loria is a big part of the problem. He doesnt have alot of money and he doesnt have the connections to get things done. Fair or not if some local juiced in guy owned the Marlins the stadium would be built. I care about the marlins not Loria so if removing him from the equation is the price that needs to be paid to keep the Marlins in Florida so be it

 

ya so lets cave into local political backstabbing pressures and give them what they want.

 

bottom line, miami is way overdue, its time to pony up. besides the marlins are done with miami due to their crap so who cares about miami anymore.

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This topic continues to bring me too Carl Pohlad. He is the wealthiest owner in MLB and owns the small market twins. If he chose to he could put an $80 million dollar payroll on the field and a fund a stadium and not even know it. Does he do that? No!

 

He took a good amount of time getting public funding for a stadium (maybe longer than the marlins) and puts a competitive team on the field under a conservative budget.

 

Would a Billion more dollars in Loria's bank account help? Sure?

 

Nevertheless Loria can still provide us with what we want if we can get a little more help from the local Gov'ts and the state.

 

 

The actions of the City of Miami have made it abundantly clear that they'll build the stadium for someone like Cisneros. Cisneros has the connections in Miami government to get this thing done. Loria doesn't.

 

 

Loria isnt the problem.

 

Loria is a big part of the problem. He doesnt have alot of money and he doesnt have the connections to get things done. Fair or not if some local juiced in guy owned the Marlins the stadium would be built. I care about the marlins not Loria so if removing him from the equation is the price that needs to be paid to keep the Marlins in Florida so be it

 

ya so lets cave into local political backstabbing pressures and give them what they want.

 

bottom line, miami is way overdue, its time to pony up. besides the marlins are done with miami due to their crap so who cares about miami anymore.

 

We care about Miami. You're not from here, so your attitude isn't surprising.

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The actions of the City of Miami have made it abundantly clear that they'll build the stadium for someone like Cisneros. Cisneros has the connections in Miami government to get this thing done. Loria doesn't.

 

 

And that in itself is the root of the problem.

 

Such despicable actions are simply unacceptable for a city that wishes to be taken seriously.

 

Look, I don't like Loria, I don't really care who owns the team as long as the Marlins stay in South Florida, but bullying like that is revolting, especially when dealing with a sports franchise that is "owned" by the area and the state, not just Loria.

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The actions of the City of Miami have made it abundantly clear that they'll build the stadium for someone like Cisneros. Cisneros has the connections in Miami government to get this thing done. Loria doesn't.

 

 

And that in itself is the root of the problem.

 

Such despicable actions are simply unacceptable for a city that wishes to be taken seriously.

 

Look, I don't like Loria, I don't really care who owns the team as long as the Marlins stay in South Florida, but bullying like that is revolting, especially when dealing with a sports franchise that is "owned" by the area and the state, not just Loria.

 

I agree to a large extent. I don't like the bullying that is going on. However, I can see some justifications for having a "local" owner. A local owner would likely take a lot of the profits from the team and stadium and invest that in other local business ventures. In effect, a guy like Loria making dough means that he'll be taking his money elsewhere. In addition, a local owner would be much more vested in the team personally and financially. Less likely to move the team. That's my 2 cents.

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The actions of the City of Miami have made it abundantly clear that they'll build the stadium for someone like Cisneros. Cisneros has the connections in Miami government to get this thing done. Loria doesn't.

 

 

And that in itself is the root of the problem.

 

Such despicable actions are simply unacceptable for a city that wishes to be taken seriously.

 

Look, I don't like Loria, I don't really care who owns the team as long as the Marlins stay in South Florida, but bullying like that is revolting, especially when dealing with a sports franchise that is "owned" by the area and the state, not just Loria.

 

 

 

I agree to a large extent. I don't like the bullying that is going on. However, I can see some justifications for having a "local" owner. A local owner would likely take a lot of the profits from the team and stadium and invest that in other local business ventures. In effect, a guy like Loria making dough means that he'll be taking his money elsewhere. In addition, a local owner would be much more vested in the team personally and financially. Less likely to move the team. That's my 2 cents.

and a local owner may have the connections to tip the hands of the polit. . . . :plain

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Loria isnt the problem.

 

Loria is a big part of the problem. He doesnt have alot of money and he doesnt have the connections to get things done. Fair or not if some local juiced in guy owned the Marlins the stadium would be built. I care about the marlins not Loria so if removing him from the equation is the price that needs to be paid to keep the Marlins in Florida so be it

 

ya so lets cave into local political backstabbing pressures and give them what they want.

 

bottom line, miami is way overdue, its time to pony up. besides the marlins are done with miami due to their crap so who cares about miami anymore.

 

Bottom line is this:

 

Professional Sports franchises are private companies and tax payers should be obligated to donate to their cause by building a stadium.Let me go to city of Hialeah and demand them to build me a "Super Market" and I'll pay them back by paying them "future rent".I bet they will laugh at me and why is it ok for a millionare to do so? He can't afford a stadium or have the connections than he should sell to another who has the resources to do so.

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Let me go to city of Hialeah and demand them to build me a "Super Market" and I'll pay them back by paying them "future rent".I bet they will laugh at me and why is it ok for a millionare to do so? He can't afford a stadium or have the connections than he should sell to another who has the resources to do so.

 

 

Do you really still not understand after three or four years of discussing this the source of the money being used to partially fund a stadium from the municipal side and why "rent" is an acceptable financing tool for bond underwriting on the private sector side?

 

The reason they would laugh at you (your words not mine) is you probably don't have the collateral, you can't prove your ability to pay rent or a track record running a supermarket of the size you anticipate, you haven't already run the best supermarket in the world, etc.

 

It isn't that he's a "millionaire" that's important, it's the $450 million (= value anticipated for Washington National franchise) asset he holds title to.

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The actions of the City of Miami have made it abundantly clear that they'll build the stadium for someone like Cisneros. Cisneros has the connections in Miami government to get this thing done. Loria doesn't.

 

 

And that in itself is the root of the problem.

 

Such despicable actions are simply unacceptable for a city that wishes to be taken seriously.

 

Look, I don't like Loria, I don't really care who owns the team as long as the Marlins stay in South Florida, but bullying like that is revolting, especially when dealing with a sports franchise that is "owned" by the area and the state, not just Loria.

 

I agree to a large extent. I don't like the bullying that is going on. However, I can see some justifications for having a "local" owner. A local owner would likely take a lot of the profits from the team and stadium and invest that in other local business ventures. In effect, a guy like Loria making dough means that he'll be taking his money elsewhere. In addition, a local owner would be much more vested in the team personally and financially. Less likely to move the team. That's my 2 cents.

 

Aww, that's a load of crap.

 

Steinbrenner isn't a local guy, he's not from New York, and he really doesn't go up there much, and look what he did with the Yankees; he saved them from CBS and returned them to the top of the food chain.

 

If the same load of crap that's happening here happened when Steinbrenner first bought the Yankees, he would have been forced out and I can tell you that would have been great for New York sports :rolleyes: .

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Let me go to city of Hialeah and demand them to build me a "Super Market" and I'll pay them back by paying them "future rent".I bet they will laugh at me and why is it ok for a millionare to do so? He can't afford a stadium or have the connections than he should sell to another who has the resources to do so.

 

 

Do you really still not understand after three or four years of discussing this the source of the money being used to partially fund a stadium from the municipal side and why "rent" is an acceptable financing tool for bond underwriting on the private sector side?

 

The reason they would laugh at you (your words not mine) is you probably don't have the collateral, you can't prove your ability to pay rent or a track record running a supermarket of the size you anticipate, you haven't already run the best supermarket in the world, etc.

 

It isn't that he's a "millionaire" that's important, it's the $450 million (= value anticipated for Washington National franchise) asset he holds title to.

 

#1 National franchise has nothing to do with Loria.Loria sold it to MLB and MLB loan him money to purchased the Fish.

 

#2 How much are the Marlins worth? The new stadium cost is double what the Marlins are worth.

 

We are not talking about financial institution that is meant to loan you money based on several factors like you mention but public funds that are not meant to be use for private companies (of course there exceptions). Let him go to a private financial institution if he indeed qualifies for a loan of that magnitude.

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We are not talking about financial institution that is meant to loan you money based on several factors like you mention but public funds that are not meant to be use for private companies (of course there exceptions). Let him go to a private financial institution if he indeed qualifies for a loan of that magnitude.

 

 

I'm not being rude here but I just realized, you really don't understand what moneys the county, and previously the city and county were contributing.

 

One more time.

 

Many years ago the voters in Miami-Dade county passed a referendum that empowered the county to collect a tax on tourists, obstensibily a "bed" tax. It was a way to collect taxes without taking it out of your pocket or mine, rather from some couple from Pittsburgh or San Paulo.

 

The money collected from this tax could not be used for regular stuff like building roads or schools or items that we would think of being in what government calls the "general fund". Rather the new law governing this tax set forth the very limited number of uses this money could be used for - and one of them is building stadiums.

 

Because of the success of the tourist industry the county has collected far more money than they ever dreamed. Even after the slowdown after 9/11, the tourist industry has rebounded so strongly that they are bringing in money hand over fist, far outstripping even the most optimistic estimates.

 

But again, none of the money that was pledged to the stadium cam from you or me. It came from tourists. Hopefully that gives you some comfort.

 

And equally comforting should be that your fellow citizens voted for this years ago, it was not some backroom deal done in the dark. The people of Miami-Dade said yes to this tax.

 

Maybe this will give you some comfort, maybe not. Butbuilding a stadium doesn't mean Johnny doesn't get school books or a road isn't paved.

 

As for the value of the Marlins franchise, I suppose I could have worded that paragraph differently. I wasn't saying he owned the Nationals franchise, but rather that the Marlins are worth at least as much as the Washington Nationals franchise will be sold for by MLB, and that price tag is $450 million.

 

Hope that helps.

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Well, there are so many good comments that I don't know which way to go. However, I will ask this. Does a fan of a sports team really care who the owner of a team is as long as the team is stable, the owner wants a winning team, and the owner doesn't have anything that is socially taboo in his closet? Anyone that thinks that this whole thing is going to be solved cleanly and morally acceptable is living in a fantasy. Politics are dirty. And anything involving the amount of money this is going to take usually is dirty. So, to think that Loria is the saint of purity, is kind of absurd. Whether it is Loria, Cisneros, or some other person, there's going to be alot of "off the record" questionable acts that get this situation fixed. The fact is that you have a bunch of individuals trying to make more money than they have and they're not going to budge and let the other guy get a penny more than himself. Steinbrenner is one of the biggest scumbags in all of sports, right there with Jerry Jones (Dallas Cowboys), and as much as many NYers despise him, they respect him greatly because he's a win at all cost owner and the first to cut the throat of a competitor. Do you really think that if we had someone like that here, that we would be complaining about the way the current situation is resolved if the Marlins are averaging 95 wins every season? I don't think so.

 

As for the discussion about who pays for the stadium; I love baseball and the Marlins, but I also make my living as a teacher/coach. I am also a parent. I definitely don't want any of these individuals dipping into funds that were intended for the education of children or my personal paycheck in order to pay for THEIR (not our) place of business when we will once again have to pay them when we go to THEIR place of business. Like the person said about the supermarket. Who in the world has the right to make people pay for THEIR place of business? Every entrepreneur has to pay for a location themselves. Billionaires should be treated no differently. If Cisneros has the funds, let him get the team and let the Loria group find a sucker somewhere else. The Nationals still don't have an owner and they just got a stadium approved.

 

Any way, there are so many things that can be said about this issue, but at least there is a slight glimmer of hope knowing that someone wants to step in and get the situation fixed, even if he's doing it in a blatantly unethical manner that would be done any way, no matter who works out the deal.

 

Well, go Marlins!!!

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We are not talking about financial institution that is meant to loan you money based on several factors like you mention but public funds that are not meant to be use for private companies (of course there exceptions). Let him go to a private financial institution if he indeed qualifies for a loan of that magnitude.

 

 

I'm not being rude here but I just realized, you really don't understand what moneys the county, and previously the city and county were contributing.

 

One more time.

 

Many years ago the voters in Miami-Dade county passed a referendum that empowered the county to collect a tax on tourists, obstensibily a "bed" tax. It was a way to collect taxes without taking it out of your pocket or mine, rather from some couple from Pittsburgh or San Paulo.

 

The money collected from this tax could not be used for regular stuff like building roads or schools or items that we would think of being in what government calls the "general fund". Rather the new law governing this tax set forth the very limited number of uses this money could be used for - and one of them is building stadiums.

 

Because of the success of the tourist industry the county has collected far more money than they ever dreamed. Even after the slowdown after 9/11, the tourist industry has rebounded so strongly that they are bringing in money hand over fist, far outstripping even the most optimistic estimates.

 

But again, none of the money that was pledged to the stadium cam from you or me. It came from tourists. Hopefully that gives you some comfort.

 

And equally comforting should be that your fellow citizens voted for this years ago, it was not some backroom deal done in the dark. The people of Miami-Dade said yes to this tax.

 

Maybe this will give you some comfort, maybe not. Butbuilding a stadium doesn't mean Johnny doesn't get school books or a road isn't paved.

 

As for the value of the Marlins franchise, I suppose I could have worded that paragraph differently. I wasn't saying he owned the Nationals franchise, but rather that the Marlins are worth at least as much as the Washington Nationals franchise will be sold for, and that price tag is $450 million.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

From my understanding "bed" tax is the money being contributed by the county.I'm not sure about the portion of the city of Miami is coming from but either way the Marlins are getting better part of the deal by not having to pay interest on the their "future" rent money.

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From my understanding "bed" tax is the money being contributed by the county.I'm not sure about the portion of the city of Miami is coming from but either way the Marlins are getting better part of the deal by not having to pay interest on the their "future" rent money.

 

 

The county collects the bed tax in the name of all cities in the county, keeps a big chunk for county pruposes, and then distributes the remainder along established guidelines.

 

In the case of Miami, they get a piece, Miami Beach, etc.

 

But all the money comes from tourists.

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We are not talking about financial institution that is meant to loan you money based on several factors like you mention but public funds that are not meant to be use for private companies (of course there exceptions). Let him go to a private financial institution if he indeed qualifies for a loan of that magnitude.

 

 

I'm not being rude here but I just realized, you really don't understand what moneys the county, and previously the city and county were contributing.

 

One more time.

 

Many years ago the voters in Miami-Dade county passed a referendum that empowered the county to collect a tax on tourists, obstensibily a "bed" tax. It was a way to collect taxes without taking it out of your pocket or mine, rather from some couple from Pittsburgh or San Paulo.

 

The money collected from this tax could not be used for regular stuff like building roads or schools or items that we would think of being in what government calls the "general fund". Rather the new law governing this tax set forth the very limited number of uses this money could be used for - and one of them is building stadiums.

 

Because of the success of the tourist industry the county has collected far more money than they ever dreamed. Even after the slowdown after 9/11, the tourist industry has rebounded so strongly that they are bringing in money hand over fist, far outstripping even the most optimistic estimates.

 

But again, none of the money that was pledged to the stadium cam from you or me. It came from tourists. Hopefully that gives you some comfort.

 

And equally comforting should be that your fellow citizens voted for this years ago, it was not some backroom deal done in the dark. The people of Miami-Dade said yes to this tax.

 

Maybe this will give you some comfort, maybe not. Butbuilding a stadium doesn't mean Johnny doesn't get school books or a road isn't paved.

 

As for the value of the Marlins franchise, I suppose I could have worded that paragraph differently. I wasn't saying he owned the Nationals franchise, but rather that the Marlins are worth at least as much as the Washington Nationals franchise will be sold for by MLB, and that price tag is $450 million.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

I hate to break it to you, but thinking that it won't come from funds intended for public education is very optimistic. It is a known fact that when funds fall short, M-DCPS always picks up the remaining tab. Have you seen what we have to endure for funds in the school system. Many high schools and middle schools are limited to having class sets of books, teachers are restricted on the amounts of material that can be used, fragile desks are not replaced sufficiently, and technology is not the best available. And this just for starters. How do you think this happened? You don't think that the American Airlines Arena, Dolphins Stadium, the Miami Arena, or that Arts Center didn't have anything to do with that? When the county pays for this new stadium and your child comes home with even less study material, you're going to think that it's just a coincidence. Regardless of what some politician says, I'm there; I see it everyday and so do my colleagues. You think that people just make that stuff up?

 

The worst part is that the people that enjoy our kids education money send their kids to private schools for a "better" education where they at least have the financial backing of those parents. Please. Don't tell me that all of these guys don't take book money away from little Jonny because they do, regardless of what they say. And I was one of the people that did vote yes for that amendment that you mentioned.

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We are not talking about financial institution that is meant to loan you money based on several factors like you mention but public funds that are not meant to be use for private companies (of course there exceptions). Let him go to a private financial institution if he indeed qualifies for a loan of that magnitude.

 

 

I'm not being rude here but I just realized, you really don't understand what moneys the county, and previously the city and county were contributing.

 

One more time.

 

Many years ago the voters in Miami-Dade county passed a referendum that empowered the county to collect a tax on tourists, obstensibily a "bed" tax. It was a way to collect taxes without taking it out of your pocket or mine, rather from some couple from Pittsburgh or San Paulo.

 

The money collected from this tax could not be used for regular stuff like building roads or schools or items that we would think of being in what government calls the "general fund". Rather the new law governing this tax set forth the very limited number of uses this money could be used for - and one of them is building stadiums.

 

Because of the success of the tourist industry the county has collected far more money than they ever dreamed. Even after the slowdown after 9/11, the tourist industry has rebounded so strongly that they are bringing in money hand over fist, far outstripping even the most optimistic estimates.

 

But again, none of the money that was pledged to the stadium cam from you or me. It came from tourists. Hopefully that gives you some comfort.

 

And equally comforting should be that your fellow citizens voted for this years ago, it was not some backroom deal done in the dark. The people of Miami-Dade said yes to this tax.

 

Maybe this will give you some comfort, maybe not. Butbuilding a stadium doesn't mean Johnny doesn't get school books or a road isn't paved.

 

As for the value of the Marlins franchise, I suppose I could have worded that paragraph differently. I wasn't saying he owned the Nationals franchise, but rather that the Marlins are worth at least as much as the Washington Nationals franchise will be sold for by MLB, and that price tag is $450 million.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

I hate to break it to you, but thinking that it won't come from funds intended for public education is very optimistic. It is a known fact that when funds fall short, M-DCPS always picks up the remaining tab. Have you seen what we have to endure for funds in the school system. Many high schools and middle schools are limited to having class sets of books, teachers are restricted on the amounts of material that can be used, fragile desks are not replaced sufficiently, and technology is not the best available. And this just for starters. How do you think this happened? You don't think that the American Airlines Arena, Dolphins Stadium, the Miami Arena, or that Arts Center didn't have anything to do with that? When the county pays for this new stadium and your child comes home with even less study material, you're going to think that it's just a coincidence. Regardless of what some politician says, I'm there; I see it everyday and so do my colleagues. You think that people just make that stuff up?

 

The worst part is that the people that enjoy our kids education money send their kids to private schools for a "better" education where they at least have the financial backing of those parents. Please. Don't tell me that all of these guys don't take book money away from little Jonny because they do, regardless of what they say. And I was one of the people that did vote yes for that amendment that you mentioned.

 

I hate to break it to you, but you're wrong, at least as it deals with the uses of bed taxes. 100% wrong.

 

The problem with education Miami-Dade is the outrageously corrupt and incompetent School Board.

 

Now you can draw whatever crazy conclusions you want by putting apples and grapefruits together, but what we're talking about, funding a stadium with taxplayer approved tourist bed taxes meant for purposes such as building stadiums.

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