Career average is not an appropriate benchmark when a guy has had less than 400 ABs in five years in and out of the bigs in all kinds of circumstances, some favorable and some not so. The only relevant comparison between these two players is their performance this season and in just about every category Borchard wins out.

 

Personally I don't think either one has a long everyday career with the Marlins, but so far Borchard has shown he is more adaptable. He can switch hit, he can come off the bench and produce. Abercrombie on the otherhand has underachieved at every level, especially for someone who has been branded with the five-tool player stamp.

 

That said, I can't argue with the point that Borchard isn't an everyday centerfielder, because he isn't. And I'm not sure Hermida is either. So in order for Borchard to play someone else has to play away from his favored position, which is not good.

 

 

I want to try and save this thread based off of this comment. I'm drunk, so please, bare with me....

 

I dont think hermida should be our future CF....he's our RF, period. I dont think either Reg or Borchard should be a future stater for the marlins, not from what they have shown. My point is that niether figures in to our future plans, so our concern should be "which guy will help us as fourth outfielder when we have our contending team". I feel that Reg has shown that he has no chance at being this guy. give borchard a chance, what better option do we have?

 

Marlins2003 feels ( and please, correct me if i'm wrong) that it will be damaging to hermida's future if we put him in center while we bench Reg. I just dont see this as the case. Hermida has served admirably after being on the DL....he's played center in career....he's young, he'll play anywhere, all he wants to do his hit the ball.....i just dont see a temporary position change being a big deal....i'm sure you have played ball....outfilelders that can move like him dont care where they play.

 

This is just about testing all of our players. Throw out careers stats, Let's jsut see what these guys can do NOW. There is nothing to lose.

 

Borchard should be playing over Reg now. Period. Reg doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore

How has Borchard shown he can be your 4th outfielder? If Joe Borchard is your 4th outfielder, then your team is in trouble. Why you want to give up on a guy (Reggie) after 7 days in June, after seeing him improve 10 fold from April to may is beyond me.

 

Hermida will not be able to play CF everyday. It will kill his legs, and he already has shown he isn't the most sturdy player in the world. Not to mention he doesn't have half the range that Abercrombie has. Watching Hermida trying to patrol DS center field will be painful. Hermida can not play center on an everyday basis right now.

 

You go ahead and expirement by putting one of your best prospects in center field and watch him get hurt. There is a difference between expirementing and stupidity.

 

You don't even have to look at stats or potential because they don't play the same position.

 

Without a doubt Reggie has a VERY LONG way to go before he will ever be considered more then a minor leaguer, but the fact is he has shown progression, and is all you have right now. He has 5 tools, and maybe it will just click at a point and time for him. Does he strike out alot? Yeah, but strikeouts are no different then groundouts or flyouts.

I am not in love with Abercrombie, but I think he is the best available option we have right now. I'll take Abercrombie over Borchard, Reed, Aguila, and Ross. I don't think Abercrombie is our CF'er of the future, but I can't think of any other names to that fit that role either.

 

 

 

I wouldn't say I am in love with him either. But I agree with most of this post. He is the best option we have right now. If he could learn some plate dicipline then he could very well be our CFer of the future. I watched him in ST and was impressed. I've been to most of the home games this year and I can tell you this guy covers that spacious CF as good as any CFer we have ever had. I have a weak spot for blue collar type players and this guy is one of them. He has pretty much learned the bounces at JRS and his play out there has reflected that. I'm for seeing if he progresses at the plate as the year goes on and take it from there. If he does then he probably will stay. If not he may go. Didn't DLee hit in the .230's range his first season??? Don't anyone say it's a different position we are talking about. At the plate it's the same position, standing up with a bat in your hands.

I'm not sold on Borchard either. However, being a Denver Broncos fan I have this weak spot for Stanford QBs. LOL Anyway, another blue collar type player. IMO he is best left as a bench guy giving guys a break once in a while in the OF because he can play every position. Plus I hear he has been taking some balls at 1B during practices. Back up players don't need to have a great bat. They just have to be able to play the positions (preferably several) and not be a detriment to the team defensively when they do. He does that.

He has 5 tools, and maybe it will just click at a point and time for him. Does he strike out alot? Yeah, but strikeouts are no different then groundouts or flyouts.

 

Anyone who thinks this shouldn't be posting on a baseball messageboard.

 

But I guess some people will go to any length, say anything to make their arguments and try to convince themselves they are never wrong.

 

If last night's game wasn't the perfect example of what is wrong with this flawed and unknowledgable thinking I don't know what would be.

 

Tieing run at third, go ahead run at second, no outs. Infield playing back, a groundball out to the right side scores a run, moves the winning run to third. A sacrifice flyout scores the runner from third. Making contact makes things happen. A ball could go through the second baseman's legs, an outfielder could have made a wild throw home. Putting the ball in play is always preferable to striking out.

 

Always.

 

Instead, with runners on second and third with no outs... Strikeout #1. Strikeout #2. Strikeout #3. Nothing to show for two runners in scoring position and no outs. Just another loss because the team couldn't put the ball in play, even to make productive outs.

He has 5 tools, and maybe it will just click at a point and time for him. Does he strike out alot? Yeah, but strikeouts are no different then groundouts or flyouts.

 

Anyone who thinks this shouldn't be posting on a baseball messageboard.

 

 

I was thinking the exact same thing.

I dont hate the guy. I am sure Borchard is a nice fellow. But he is the used car salesman type of baseball players.

 

 

 

This coming from a guy who insists that Miguel Olivo is a below average defensive catcher. (And I dont want to hear about how he dropped the ball on a play at the plate tonight, one play does not a player make).

 

 

I like Reggie. But when Borchard is batting I feel like there is a chance he will reach base.

 

Like previously mentioned, comparing them is senseless though because Borchard is not a CF and we dont have anyone that can cover as much ground as Reggie in CF.

\

 

I dont really know what you've seen that makes him not below average. SABRmetricially(dont need to get 2003 on a rant) he is. He has a strong arm? So what. Treanor has a better % of throwing out runners. He also cant block balls(last night was not the first of these instances)

 

But whatever. I wont say Olivo is a bad defensive catcher, but he is lightyears away from being good. Saying he is below average defensively is definantly not a stretch, and the only defense you've ever had about this is "he threw that runner out! I thought he was bad defensively hahahahaha".

 

You come up with definitive proof saying he's a good defensive catcher, and I'll stop saying he's below average. But him just having a strong arm is not going to cut it as an arguement.

"blah blah blah blah 500 feet POWER!!!!!! blah blah blah"

 

I say give him time.

I do not like him, he swings and misses way more than any major leaguer should. It is one thing to have a low avg and just not have any luck with where the ball is being hit and maybe the occasional strikeout. But if your going to strikeout as much as reggie then you would at least expect some descent power numbers to make up for it like Dunn. Reggie is a blackhole like Agon was only worse and that is saying something. I would rather even try Hermida in center and let borchard (at least he makes more contact) start in right. I mean anything but get this guy out of the lineup.

God this thread is laughable for the argument against Borchard. Especially against him being our 4th OFer. Switch hitters are rare and provide a versatile weapon to use off the bench. Switch hitters with power from both sides of the plate are few and far between. His defense is also more polished then Reggie. Borchard as our fourth OFer for years to come is something I do not mind. Power off the bench AND being a switch hitter is well worth the investment.

 

 

Now as per Borchard not being a Major league level player because of his career average? Get out of here. The guy hasn't had a chance to start consistently at all at the big league level. He's had pinch hits here and there. And veteran players will have trouble coming off the bench unless you are Lenny Harris. I think Borchard maybe the better long term solution than Reggie because Borchard has a better eye at the plate.

 

In regards to last night. Are you all who say he had a bad night and sucks because of it going to rip on every other Marlin player who was shutdown by a lights out Schmidt?

I think the more important questions are 3 things.

 

1. What do we have to lose?

2. Whom else do we even have for CF, I dont like hermida there with our luck he will strain a leg muscle or something.

3. Are we really playing for anything this year? Last I checked we are just playing to improve what we have for the future not for right now.

 

unless they trade for a prospect CF that can fill in I dont see them replacing Reggie long term.

 

but a K isnt the same as a GB or FB, it is far worse

but a K isnt the same as a GB or FB, it is far worse

 

depends on the situation

If Jeremy Hermida could play CF I'd love it. Would be much easier to find another corner outfielder. But with his injuries I'd be too worried about him out there...

I would rather leave Hermida in RF. I wouldn't mess around with him and platoon him in different outfield positions. Considering he may have injury concerns, then I would leave him in RF primarily because of the wear and tear on your body playing CF everyday.

He has 5 tools, and maybe it will just click at a point and time for him. Does he strike out alot? Yeah, but strikeouts are no different then groundouts or flyouts.

 

Anyone who thinks this shouldn't be posting on a baseball messageboard.

 

 

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Yeah because that groundout to shortstop is much better then a strikeout.

 

He has 5 tools, and maybe it will just click at a point and time for him. Does he strike out alot? Yeah, but strikeouts are no different then groundouts or flyouts.

 

Anyone who thinks this shouldn't be posting on a baseball messageboard.

 

 

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Yeah because that groundout to shortstop is much better then a strikeout.

 

 

Yea.. I guess there is no chance of an infielder making an error or something like that. Or any chance that the ball will be hit slow enough where the runners can advance. When you K the only thing you can hope is that the catcher doesnt catch it. Atleast a ground out shows you can make contact. With a K you just sit there or miss it. A ground ball can lead to a DP but so can a K. If you put the ball in play anything can happen.

He has 5 tools, and maybe it will just click at a point and time for him. Does he strike out alot? Yeah, but strikeouts are no different then groundouts or flyouts.

 

Anyone who thinks this shouldn't be posting on a baseball messageboard.

 

 

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Yeah because that groundout to shortstop is much better then a strikeout.

 

 

Yea.. I guess there is no chance of an infielder making an error or something like that. Or any chance that the ball will be hit slow enough where the runners can advance. When you K the only thing you can hope is that the catcher doesnt catch it. Atleast a ground out shows you can make contact. With a K you just sit there or miss it. A ground ball can lead to a DP but so can a K. If you put the ball in play anything can happen.

Yeah because you see the double play on a strike out just as much as you do on a ground out.

 

 

Sorry, but the Reds led the NL in runs and strikeouts last year, proving that strikeouts are no different the any other out.

This whole arguement about Reggie K'ing too much, so lets play Borchard thing is ridiculous.

 

Reggie has K'd in every 2.9 ab's. But at the same time, Borchard has K'd in every 3.4 at bats for his career(and really, before this year, he K'd in every 3.1 AB's)

 

Yet, people will try to say that you cant use that because he hasn't had consistant playing time blah blah blah.

 

Well Reggie is a rookie with more potential than Borchard will ever have. He also plays what I am guessing is servicible defense at a premium position, where we have no one else who can realisticially fill in for a long period of time.

 

Will Reggie ever be a superstar? No. Will he be a better 4th OF when we find someone to replace him than Borchard? Yes, IMO, he will.

This whole arguement about Reggie K'ing too much, so lets play Borchard thing is ridiculous.

 

Reggie has K'd in every 2.9 ab's. But at the same time, Borchard has K'd in every 3.4 at bats for his career(and really, before this year, he K'd in every 3.1 AB's)

 

Yet, people will try to say that you cant use that because he hasn't had consistant playing time blah blah blah.

 

Well Reggie is a rookie with more potential than Borchard will ever have. He also plays what I am guessing is servicible defense at a premium position, where we have no one else who can realisticially fill in for a long period of time.

 

Will Reggie ever be a superstar? No. Will he be a better 4th OF when we find someone to replace him than Borchard? Yes, IMO, he will.

 

 

 

Winner winner chicken dinner.

I think the more important questions are 3 things.

 

1. What do we have to lose?

2. Whom else do we even have for CF, I dont like hermida there with our luck he will strain a leg muscle or something.

3. Are we really playing for anything this year? Last I checked we are just playing to improve what we have for the future not for right now.

 

unless they trade for a prospect CF that can fill in I dont see them replacing Reggie long term.

 

but a K isnt the same as a GB or FB, it is far worse

 

 

:thumbup good post!

 

1. Nothing

2. Nobody, that is why we need to trade for somebody

3. Right on!

God this thread is laughable for the argument against Borchard. Especially against him being our 4th OFer. Switch hitters are rare and provide a versatile weapon to use off the bench. Switch hitters with power from both sides of the plate are few and far between. His defense is also more polished then Reggie. Borchard as our fourth OFer for years to come is something I do not mind. Power off the bench AND being a switch hitter is well worth the investment.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly right. Add in the fact that Borchard can play all 3 OF spots with good defense, plus 1st base, and he is an extremely valuable 4th OFer IMO. I am a Borchard fan and hope he sticks around for awhile. I do not cringe when I see him coming to bat with 2 men on and 1 out like I do when Reggie comes up. Borchard seems alot more clutch and has solid ABs. Reggie still belongs in triple A, no doubt about it.

Exactly right. Add in the fact that Borchard can play all 3 OF spots with good defense, plus 1st base, and he is an extremely valuable 4th OFer IMO. I am a Borchard fan and hope he sticks around for awhile. I do not cringe when I see him coming to bat with 2 men on and 1 out like I do when Reggie comes up. Borchard seems alot more clutch and has solid ABs. Reggie still belongs in triple A, no doubt about it.

 

 

 

I agree with you there. I am a Reggie fan, I hope he does great but like what you said he belongs in AAA. Look at Aggy he has great #'s there but here he just doesnt get it done. If Reggie can have a decent next few months than I will think differently but until then I don't believe Reggie is a ML player. I never said Borch should play everyday. To me he has better AB's, doesnt look overmatched etc:. Its just my opinion.

God this thread is laughable for the argument against Borchard. Especially against him being our 4th OFer. Switch hitters are rare and provide a versatile weapon to use off the bench. Switch hitters with power from both sides of the plate are few and far between. His defense is also more polished then Reggie. Borchard as our fourth OFer for years to come is something I do not mind. Power off the bench AND being a switch hitter is well worth the investment.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly right. Add in the fact that Borchard can play all 3 OF spots with good defense, plus 1st base, and he is an extremely valuable 4th OFer IMO. I am a Borchard fan and hope he sticks around for awhile. I do not cringe when I see him coming to bat with 2 men on and 1 out like I do when Reggie comes up. Borchard seems alot more clutch and has solid ABs. Reggie still belongs in triple A, no doubt about it.

Borchard can't play CF.

Reggie can play all 3 outfield spots.

 

 

Joe Borchard with RISP (THIS SEASON):

.250 BA

 

With RSIP and 2 outs:

.214 BA

 

Reggie with RISP:

.294

 

With RISP and 2 outs:

.333

 

Calling Borchard "more clutch" is false.

He has 5 tools, and maybe it will just click at a point and time for him. Does he strike out alot? Yeah, but strikeouts are no different then groundouts or flyouts.

 

Anyone who thinks this shouldn't be posting on a baseball messageboard.

 

 

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Yeah because that groundout to shortstop is much better then a strikeout.

 

uh I'd have taken a groundout to short from Cabrera in the 9th last night instead of the strikeout.

 

Borchard will take a walk, Reggie won't. In half the at-bats of Reggie, Borchard has equal walks & more home runs. Reggie still has the potential to be better, right now he isn't. I have no problem starting him in center right now though, because for me it isn't about wins and losses.

He has 5 tools, and maybe it will just click at a point and time for him. Does he strike out alot? Yeah, but strikeouts are no different then groundouts or flyouts.

 

Anyone who thinks this shouldn't be posting on a baseball messageboard.

 

 

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Yeah because that groundout to shortstop is much better then a strikeout.

 

uh I'd have taken a groundout to short from Cabrera in the 9th last night instead of the strikeout.

It all depends on the situation.

Fact is, I don't think there is anyone better than Abercrombie on the roster (or in the minors) that can fill in for him. Ross hasn't hit much with us, and Borchard has been hot and cold. The thing Abercrombie really needs to work on is his strikeout numbers. If that improves, I think most of his offensive game will.

God this thread is laughable for the argument against Borchard. Especially against him being our 4th OFer. Switch hitters are rare and provide a versatile weapon to use off the bench. Switch hitters with power from both sides of the plate are few and far between. His defense is also more polished then Reggie. Borchard as our fourth OFer for years to come is something I do not mind. Power off the bench AND being a switch hitter is well worth the investment.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly right. Add in the fact that Borchard can play all 3 OF spots with good defense, plus 1st base, and he is an extremely valuable 4th OFer IMO. I am a Borchard fan and hope he sticks around for awhile. I do not cringe when I see him coming to bat with 2 men on and 1 out like I do when Reggie comes up. Borchard seems alot more clutch and has solid ABs. Reggie still belongs in triple A, no doubt about it.

Borchard can't play CF.

Reggie can play all 3 outfield spots.

 

 

Joe Borchard with RISP (THIS SEASON):

.250 BA

 

With RSIP and 2 outs:

.214 BA

 

Reggie with RISP:

.294

 

With RISP and 2 outs:

.333

 

Calling Borchard "more clutch" is false.

 

Felo, you cant tell anything with those stats. Borchard hasn't had the same chance of everday playing time that reggie has had. I agree that you cant call borchard clutch. But i think your argument to not play borchard is too largely based on his career stats. He has never had everyday playing time.

 

I think the best argument raised is the fact that hermida may get hurt in center. I just really dont think this is the case. He CAN play center, he has before, dont forget he is a pretty fast player and can cover plenty of ground out there. But he will be diving and running whether he is playing right, left or center. Someone is just as likely to get hurt in right as in center. It's just part of the game.