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Updated: Amish School Shooting


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The county coroner says at least six people were killed in a shooting at a one-room Amish schoolhouse, where state police said earlier a gunman killed "a number" of people Monday in Pennsylvania's bucolic Lancaster County.

 

"So far six confirmed dead and the helicopters are pulling into (Lancaster General Hospital) like crazy," Lancaster County Coroner G. Gary Kirchner said.

 

It was unclear if the shooter was among the six. State police Cpl. Ralph Striebig had said earlier the shooter was among the dead, and a number of people were injured.

 

Three girls, all critical with gunshot wounds, were admitted to Lancaster General Hospital, spokesman John Lines told WGAL-TV.

 

Police surrounded the one-room school late Monday morning, and the Lancaster County 911 Web site reported that dozens of emergency units were dispatched to a "medical emergency" at 10:45 a.m.

 

Two hours later, about three dozen people in traditional Amish clothing, hats and bonnets stood near the small school building speaking to one another, several young people and authorities. At least two ambulances had left the scene, and at least one person was taken on a stretcher to a medical helicopter.

 

Officials at the Penn State Milton S. Hershey Medical Center confirmed that victims were being admitted there. A spokeswoman said the hospital anticipated more than one patient, but did not know how many.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/02/D8KGKNH00.html

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"The gunman in the Amish school shooting tied together the feet of most female students and allowed boys to leave the building before shooting his victims execution style, police say."

 

Ugh. That makes me sick.

 

Please, nobody use the concealed weapons excuse here, as I'm pretty sure the ammish teacher would not have had a gun to stop this.

 

Just as I'm sure there would have been no metal detectors. This is a situation that goes beyond politics. It's just taking advantage of a culture to take out this guys sick plans.

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I'm pretty sure the ammish teacher would not have had a gun to stop this.

 

The amish have and use shotguns for various purposes such as protecting livestock from predators and other things, so yes they do have firearms... apparently just not at their schools.

 

It is reprehensible that 13 girls were allowed to be lined up and shot execution style, 6 of them killed and 7 of them shot in the head and still survived. Just disgusting.

 

They said on the news that the gunman left a suicide note saying that this was revenge for something that happened 20 years ago in amish country. There is nothing in this world that would have stopped this sick psychopath other than a bullet to the head.

 

If it can happen in an amish community where crime is literally non-existant, then it can happen anywhere. People need to open their eyes, how make wake up calls does society need?

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I'm pretty sure the ammish teacher would not have had a gun to stop this.

 

The amish have and use shotguns for various purposes such as protecting livestock from predators and other things, so yes they do have firearms... apparently just not at their schools.

 

It is reprehensible that 13 girls were allowed to be lined up and shot execution style, 6 of them killed and 7 of them shot in the head and still survived. Just disgusting.

 

They said on the news that the gunman left a suicide note saying that this was revenge for something that happened 20 years ago. There is nothing in this world that would have stopped this sick psychopath other than a bullet to the head.

 

If it can happen in an amish community where crime is literally non-existant, then it can happen anywhere. People need to open their eyes, how make wake up calls does society need?

 

Oh please. You are so obsessed with turning everything into a political conservative v. liberal thing that you just absolutely refuse to see the truth. Even if the ammish teacher had been allowed to carry a gun, do you honestly think there is any circumstance where he would have before this event? It was so impossible seeming that I can't see any person thinking they need a gun in this case.

 

This was going to happen whether concealed weapons were allowed or not. Don't try to spin this into more propaganda to further your pro-gun stance. It's sick.

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Update: MSNBC is reporting that the SOB who did this was scheduled to have a drug test at his job today, so that might have had something to do with it... he knew he would fail the test for whatever reason.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure the ammish teacher would not have had a gun to stop this.

 

The amish have and use shotguns for various purposes such as protecting livestock from predators and other things, so yes they do have firearms... apparently just not at their schools.

 

It is reprehensible that 13 girls were allowed to be lined up and shot execution style, 6 of them killed and 7 of them shot in the head and still survived. Just disgusting.

 

They said on the news that the gunman left a suicide note saying that this was revenge for something that happened 20 years ago. There is nothing in this world that would have stopped this sick psychopath other than a bullet to the head.

 

If it can happen in an amish community where crime is literally non-existant, then it can happen anywhere. People need to open their eyes, how make wake up calls does society need?

 

Oh please. You are so obsessed with turning everything into a political conservative v. liberal thing that you just absolutely refuse to see the truth. Even if the ammish teacher had been allowed to carry a gun, do you honestly think there is any circumstance where he would have before this event? It was so impossible seeming that I can't see any person thinking they need a gun in this case.

 

This was going to happen whether concealed weapons were allowed or not. Don't try to spin this into more propaganda to further your pro-gun stance. It's sick.

This has NOTHING to do with liberal vs. conservative or any sort of politics, it has EVERYTHING to do with this country needing a wakeup call - if it can happen in an amish community with no crime whatsoever, then it can happen anywhere. Just because you live in a safe neighborhood or think you go to a safe school means absolutely nothing anymore, it's not 1954 with Beaver Cleaver.

 

You're absolutely right this would have happened whether concealed carry/firearms were allowed or not - however at least you would have had a fighting chance to prevent the deaths of 6 innocent girls and probably more considering the 7 who survived are all in critical condition. If you have the opportunity to fight back, then you do. I'm not sure why fighting back is such a foreign concept.

 

You say i'm trying to turn this into some pro-gun propaganda, but you couldn't be anymore wrong. The fact of the matter is the ANTI-gun lobby will use this incident to institute even more strict gun control which psychopaths like this most definitely will not abide by.

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This has NOTHING to do with liberal vs. conservative or any sort of politics, it has EVERYTHING to do with this country needing a wakeup call - if it can happen in an amish community with no crime whatsoever, then it can happen anywhere. Just because you live in a safe neighborhood or think you go to a safe school means absolutely nothing anymore, it's not 1954 with Beaver Cleaver.

 

You're absolutely right this would have happened whether concealed carry/firearms were allowed or not - however at least you would have had a fighting chance to prevent the deaths of 6 innocent girls and probably more considering the 7 who survived are all in critical condition. If you have the opportunity to fight back, then you do. I'm not sure why fighting back is such a foreign concept.

 

You say i'm trying to turn this into some pro-gun propaganda, but you couldn't be anymore wrong. The fact of the matter is the ANTI-gun lobby will use this incident to institute even more strict gun control which psychopaths like this most definitely will not abide by.

 

 

I honestly do not think they would have had a fighting chance. I think you are failing to realize that the chances of this one teacher having both a concealed weapons permit and his weapon ( nevermind that he is ammish, so there is a good chance he would have neither as it probably would never seem plausible that he would need one) are so slim that this issue doesn't even come into play here.

 

This is not a gun control issue, and it shouldn't be.

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I just heard about this awhile ago. Just terrible :( . You would think being in Amish Country you would be safe but I guess not. People are psycho.

 

So Accord, you think that everyone should have a gun for protection? I think the more people who have guns the more likely all these shooting are going to continue. Most of these kids who go out and shoot people have guns in their house (Parents guns). Argh... I dont understand what you are thinking.

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This has NOTHING to do with liberal vs. conservative or any sort of politics, it has EVERYTHING to do with this country needing a wakeup call - if it can happen in an amish community with no crime whatsoever, then it can happen anywhere. Just because you live in a safe neighborhood or think you go to a safe school means absolutely nothing anymore, it's not 1954 with Beaver Cleaver.

 

You're absolutely right this would have happened whether concealed carry/firearms were allowed or not - however at least you would have had a fighting chance to prevent the deaths of 6 innocent girls and probably more considering the 7 who survived are all in critical condition. If you have the opportunity to fight back, then you do. I'm not sure why fighting back is such a foreign concept.

 

You say i'm trying to turn this into some pro-gun propaganda, but you couldn't be anymore wrong. The fact of the matter is the ANTI-gun lobby will use this incident to institute even more strict gun control which psychopaths like this most definitely will not abide by.

 

 

I honestly do not think they would have had a fighting chance. I think you are failing to realize that the chances of this one teacher having both a concealed weapons permit and his weapon ( nevermind that he is ammish, so there is a good chance he would have neither as it probably would never seem plausible that he would need one) are so slim that this issue doesn't even come into play here.

 

This is not a gun control issue, and it shouldn't be.

If they had the means to fight back, whether they would have been successful or not is completely up in the air, but at least they could have had a chance. I disagree though that because they were amish they would be less likely to have a weapon, almost every amish household has a shotgun and it's not uncommon at all to see a man walking down the road with a shotgun slung over his shoulder. If anything the amish are a far more "open" gun society than the rest of America.

 

I agree it shouldn't be a gun control issue, but the fact of the matter is that it is, Columbine was single handedly responsible for countless new gun control laws being signed into law and the country rallying around the idea of needing more gun control and all of these school shootings is just going to feed more into it and some people will think the answer is more laws. There ought to be a new approach to the problem than just more laws, and that approach needs to be hands on, IMO.

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Columbine was single handedly responsible for countless new gun control laws being signed into law and the country rallying around the idea of needing more gun control and all of these school shootings is just going to feed more into it and some people will think the answer is more laws.

 

 

And some of the people who backed new laws after Columbine was *gasp* the NRA. I guess it's always the stupid liberals vouching for more gun control laws.

 

I'll be interested to see if this man had a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

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Columbine was single handedly responsible for countless new gun control laws being signed into law and the country rallying around the idea of needing more gun control and all of these school shootings is just going to feed more into it and some people will think the answer is more laws.

 

 

And some of the people who backed new laws after Columbine was *gasp* the NRA. Stupid liberals vouching for more gun control laws.

 

I'll be interested to see if this man had a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

 

You've seen Bowling for Columbine one too many times, that statement is absolutely false.

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Something has got to be done, we've had God knows how many of these incidents in the last decade.

 

I agree, its unbelievable and just plain sickening that this happens

 

RIP to all those who died. CNN is reporting that three are actually 3 dead right now, but 7 more are injured.

 

But ya, something seriously needs to be done to prevent things like this from happening. Granted this was Amish Country, but I feel that schools are such an open target for ANYONE. And unfortunately these mentally unstable people are going to begin to realize this as we've seen two in the past week. No relation to anyone at the school and going in and doing these horrible things. I know my high school was not well protected at all and in all reality if someone came in shooting while classes were changing(our school was incredibly over crowded and the halls were always jam packed) there would be an unimaginable death toll.

 

Then again, I'm not really sure if there's any true answer. Obviously in this case you cannot expect an amish teacher to carry a weapon. I don't know. Just a terrible situation here. RIP

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Guest FlummoxedLummox

Seriously, who wants to hurt the Amish (let alone any innocent person)? This just goes beyond reprehensible.

 

 

Concerning this country needing a wakeup call...Do you really think that people hurting other people is a new thing? That people killing other people is a new thing? This has been happening for as long as human beings have existed. We just hear about it more frequently.

 

This is what the media thinks is newsworthy because it's what brings in the most viewers. The increase in viewership brings in the advertising sponsors, therefore we hear about it. And therefore we hear about it ad nauseum 24 hours a day. This attention feeds the acts, because it's the only way some of these psychopaths think they can be noticed.

 

If anything should send up a red flag about our society, it's the notion that we should all be carrying around deadly weapons because it's the only way to keep ourselves safe. Yeah, because that's the society I want to live in: a place where we all look at each other over the hashmarks of a gun that we clutch white-knuckled to ourselves, because the man walking by across the street has a permit to hold a concealed weapon.

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Columbine was single handedly responsible for countless new gun control laws being signed into law and the country rallying around the idea of needing more gun control and all of these school shootings is just going to feed more into it and some people will think the answer is more laws.

 

 

And some of the people who backed new laws after Columbine was *gasp* the NRA. Stupid liberals vouching for more gun control laws.

 

I'll be interested to see if this man had a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

 

You've seen Bowling for Columbine one too many times, that statement is absolutely false.

 

(CBS) The National Rifle Association gave thousands of dollars last month to Colorado state legislators in an effort to defeat gun control laws inspired by the Columbine massacre. CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports many of those measures were voted down this week.

 

Only a few token laws, those supported by the NRA, passed. One allows cops to arrest people who buy guns for criminals and children; another re-authorizes a state background check program

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/02/16/...ain161459.shtml

 

 

 

Unlike you Accord I know what I am talking about or at least spend time to learn about what I am talking about. Try it out sometime, if you think your mind could handle a little learning and knowledge.

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I think once school hours begin, any visitor to the school needs to let the school know beforehand that they are coming and that all doors should be locked and any visitors should have to be buzzed in and subjected to a search.

 

Try it out sometime, if you think your mind could handle a little learing and knowledge.

Irony, PhishPhan?

 

Update:

A 32-year-old milk truck driver took about a dozen girls hostage in a one-room Amish schoolhouse Monday, barricaded the doors with boards and killed at least three girls and apparently himself, authorities said.

 

It was the nation's third deadly school shooting in less than a week, and similar to an attack just days earlier at a school in Colorado.

 

The gunman, identified as Charles Carl Roberts IV, was inside for over half an hour and had barred the doors with 2x4s with the girls inside, State Police Commissioner Jeffrey B. Miller said. By the time officers broke windows to get in, three girls and the gunman were dead, Miller said.

 

Lancaster County Coroner G. Gary Kirchner initially said six people were killed, but later said he wasn't certain. At least seven people were taken to hospitals, including at least three girls in critical condition with gunshot wounds.

 

Roberts walked into the one-room West Nickel Mines Amish School with a shotgun and handgun, then released about 15 boys, a pregnant woman and three women with infants before barring the doors, Miller said.

 

The girls were lined up along a blackboard and their feet were bound, he said.

 

A teacher called police around 10:30 a.m. and reported that a gunman was holding students hostage.

 

About 11 a.m., Roberts apparently called his wife from a cell phone, saying he was "acting out in revenge for something that happened 20 years ago," Miller said. "It seems as though he wanted to attack young, female victims."

 

Moments later, Roberts told a dispatcher he would open fire on the children if police didn't back away from the building. Troopers heard gunfire in the building seconds later.

 

The school has about 25 to 30 students in all, ages 6 to 13.

 

"It seems as though he wanted to attack young, female victims," Miller said. He released no further details about that what the grudge Roberts mentioned could have involved.

 

The school is among farmlands just outside Nickel Mines, a tiny village about 55 miles west of Philadelphia. Hours after the shootings, about three dozen people in traditional Amish clothing, hats and bonnets stood near the small building, surrounded by a white board fence, as investigators walked in line through fields searching for evidence.

 

The shootings were disturbingly similar to an attack last week at Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colo., where a man took several girls hostage in a school classroom and then killed one of them and himself. Authorities said the man in Colorado sexually molested the girls.

 

"If this is some kind of a copycat, it's horrible and of concern to everybody, all law enforcement," said Monte Gore, undersheriff of Park County, Colo.

 

"On behalf of Park County and our citizens and our sheriff's office, our hearts go out to that school and the community," he said.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/02/D8KGMCP02.html

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Columbine was single handedly responsible for countless new gun control laws being signed into law and the country rallying around the idea of needing more gun control and all of these school shootings is just going to feed more into it and some people will think the answer is more laws.

 

 

And some of the people who backed new laws after Columbine was *gasp* the NRA. Stupid liberals vouching for more gun control laws.

 

I'll be interested to see if this man had a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

 

You've seen Bowling for Columbine one too many times, that statement is absolutely false.

 

(CBS) The National Rifle Association gave thousands of dollars last month to Colorado state legislators in an effort to defeat gun control laws inspired by the Columbine massacre. CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports many of those measures were voted down this week.

 

Only a few token laws, those supported by the NRA, passed. One allows cops to arrest people who buy guns for criminals and children; another re-authorizes a state background check program

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/02/16/...ain161459.shtml

 

 

 

Unlike you Accord I know what I am talking about or at least spend time to learn about what I am talking about. Try it out sometime, if you think your mind could handle a little learning and knowledge.

 

Do you even realize what you just posted?

 

"The National Rifle Association gave thousands of dollars last month to Colorado state legislators in an effort to defeat gun control laws inspired by the Columbine massacre."

 

Yeah, the NRA is really supporting gun control! You just proved me wrong! :blink:

 

And if you're going to try and make an argument out of the second paragraph "Only a few token laws, those supported by the NRA, passed. One allows cops to arrest people who buy guns for criminals and children."

 

Those are called straw purchases and they have been felonies long before Columbine ever happened. Straw purchases are one of the biggest problems in this country in regards to criminals obtaining weapons, they're convicted felons who can't legally buy a gun, so they'll give money to a friend to buy the gun for them - it's a huge problem and everytime you walk into a gunshop you'll see posters like "Don't Lie For The Other Guy, Minimum 10 years in prison if the gun you purchase is used in a crime by someone else" and things like that. Yhe NRA supporting a straw purchase bill is not supporting more ludicrous gun control, it just means you can't buy a gun for a convicted felon or a kid, which is a no brainer.

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And if you're going to try and make an argument out of the second paragraph "Only a few token laws, those supported by the NRA, passed. One allows cops to arrest people who buy guns for criminals and children."

 

 

Well that and re-establishing background check programs. You know that isn't a big deal or anything. :|

 

So is it a lie that the NRA backed laws after Columbine?

 

Thanks for playing. I know it may be shocking to you but not all guns laws are bad, well at least as far as the NRA is concerned. So bashing the fact gun laws are made is stupid when the NRA even realizes some sort of control needs to be had.

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And if you're going to try and make an argument out of the second paragraph "Only a few token laws, those supported by the NRA, passed. One allows cops to arrest people who buy guns for criminals and children."

 

 

Well that and re-establishing background check programs. You know that isn't a big deal or anything. :|

 

So is it a lie that the NRA backed laws after Columbine?

 

Thanks for playing. I know it may be shocking to you but not all guns laws are bad, well at least as far as the NRA is concerned. So bashing the fact gun laws are made is stupid when the NRA even realizes some sort of control needs to be had.

So you're saying the NRA should unequivocally be against all laws regarding gun control? I don't see the harm or some sort of mixed message in the NRA wanting the state of Colorado to have laws that keep guns out of criminals' hands. Oh noes, the NRA wants guns to only be in the hands of people that are less likely to use it to do harm!

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And if you're going to try and make an argument out of the second paragraph "Only a few token laws, those supported by the NRA, passed. One allows cops to arrest people who buy guns for criminals and children."

 

 

Well that and re-establishing background check programs. You know that isn't a big deal or anything. :|

 

So is it a lie that the NRA backed laws after Columbine?

 

Thanks for playing. I know it may be shocking to you but not all guns laws are bad, well at least as far as the NRA is concerned. So bashing the fact gun laws are made is stupid when the NRA even realizes some sort of control needs to be had.

So you're saying the NRA should unequivocally be against all laws regarding gun control? I don't see the harm or some sort of mixed message in the NRA wanting the state of Colorado to have laws that keep guns out of criminals' hands. Oh noes, the NRA wants guns to only be in the hands of people that are less likely to use it to do harm!

 

All I did was point out the fact that not all gun laws are bad and that even the NRA sees the light from time to time. I was called a liar and proved the fact that yes even the NRA backs gun laws from time to time and limits are not such a bad thing. I have no problem with the NRA or how they conduct their business. I have nothing particularly against gun ownership and should be allowed within reason. I just have a problem with people when they refuse to acknowledge the truth and live in a fantasy world, i.e. in this case thinking new gun laws in reaction to such acts are a bad thing.

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I think once school hours begin, any visitor to the school needs to let the school know beforehand that they are coming and that all doors should be locked and any visitors should have to be buzzed in and subjected to a search.

 

Why stop there? I think teachers and students should be searched with metal detectors and cavities should be examined with non-latex gloves. There should be 12 foot tall barbed wire fences installed around the perimeter of the school and there should be men in towers strategically located within the perimeter so they have intersecting lines of fire covering any possibly means of egress. All doors should be controlled from a central location and locked down during class periods. Students may only proceed to their next designated class in an orderly fashion and should be accompanied by armed hall monitors in order to ensure order.

 

Oh wait, I think I saw a couple of schools like this labeled "maximum security."

 

:shifty

 

We can not live in fear because of a bunch of rejects. If that Amish school had hired a security guard to check visitors as they arrived, that would have accomplished nothing more than adding +1 to the body count. I actually *am* in support of metal detectors in certain trouble schools. The problem is that most of the schools being targeted are NOT know for violence. I'm not sure that there is an answer. Just as an fyi, there was a hostage incident at my college my freshman year. Some guy claimed that the government had planted a microchip in his brain. There haven't been any incidents like this since. You just have to mark it off as a random act of violence that really could not have been foreseen or prevented.

 

We can not protect ourselves from every possible threat a la Panic Room. I live my life knowing each day that I inherit a certain amount of risk by simply stepping in to the shower in the morning.

 

As an addendum to my previous message, I do not want to sound like I don?t care. Obviously this is a tragic and senseless act of violence. My only point is that I don?t want to see people getting too carried away about whose fault this was or how these types of incidents can be prevented in the future.

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I think once school hours begin, any visitor to the school needs to let the school know beforehand that they are coming and that all doors should be locked and any visitors should have to be buzzed in and subjected to a search.

 

Why stop there? I think teachers and students should be searched with metal detectors and cavities should be examined with non-latex gloves. There should be 12 foot tall barbed wire fences installed around the perimeter of the school and there should be men in towers strategically located within the perimeter so they have intersecting lines of fire covering any possibly means of egress. All doors should be controlled from a central location and locked down during class periods. Students may only proceed to their next designated class in an orderly fashion and should be accompanied by armed hall monitors in order to ensure order.

 

Oh wait, I think I saw a couple of schools like this labeled "maximum security."

 

:shifty

 

We can not live in fear because of a bunch of rejects. If that Amish school had hired a security guard to check visitors as they arrived, that would have accomplished nothing more than adding +1 to the body count. I actually *am* in support of metal detectors in certain trouble schools. The problem is that most of the schools being targeted are NOT know for violence. I'm not sure that there is an answer. Just as an fyi, there was a hostage incident at my college my freshman year. Some guy claimed that the government had planted a microchip in his brain. There haven't been any incidents like this since. You just have to mark it off as a random act of violence that really could not have been foreseen or prevented.

 

We can not protect ourselves from every possible threat a la Panic Room. I live my life knowing each day that I inherit a certain amount of risk by simply stepping in to the shower in the morning.

 

As an addendum to my previous message, I do not want to sound like I don?t care. Obviously this is a tragic and senseless act of violence. My only point is that I don?t want to see people getting too carried away about whose fault this was or how these types of incidents can be prevented in the future.

Simply remove schools from the federal "gun free zone" list, people think in doing so, criminals will be carrying up and down the halls of schools nationwide and that's just not true - all this will do is allow teachers and other adults who have submitted to FBI background checks and sought out the proper training to legally carry a concealed firearm and exercise their god given right to self defense with effective means of doing so.

 

People put on their seatbelts when they get into their cars, does that mean they're assuming they'll be getting into a car accident today? Of course not. They just buckle their seatbelts incase of a worst case scenario without even thinking about it, carrying concealed really is no different. It's there if you need it and nothing more - better to have it and never touch it once, than to need it and not have it. .

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Simply remove schools from the federal "gun free zone" list, people think in doing so, criminals will be carrying up and down the halls of schools nationwide and that's just not true - all this will do is allow teachers and other adults who have submitted to FBI background checks and sought out the proper training to legally carry a concealed firearm and exercise their god given right to self defense with effective means of doing so.

 

 

I don't think that is what most people think. I think most people realize just because someone can pass a background check it does not mean they are stable. From my own understanding you just are not allowed to have a criminal record, or have your name on any major list of bad guys, plus the system is not 100% accurate, because no system is. However I am not sure the FBI checks every CCW request, I think it is left up to local/state officials, and the requirements differ from state to state.

 

I think more people would rather see more police officers in the schools because they feel you can trust and officer more than a teacher.

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